(Sen. Ben) Nelson proposes war bonds

[sabra]

Source: MSNBC

From NBC's Ken Strickland
In lieu of a "war tax" to pay for a troop increase in Afghanistan, Democratic Sen. Ben Nelson (NE) is proposing war bonds.

"We didn't have a war tax in the second World War," Nelson said, and instead the government sold Americans bonds."People invested in their country, in that fashion made a lot of sense back then. I don't know why it might not make sense today, certainly in lieu of jumping to tax."

The idea has the support of fellow moderate Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT).

"I think that's a great idea," he said, "But I think we shouldn't shrink from a war tax in which everybody is asked to contribute a little bit to this effort."

Read more: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/12/01/2139468.aspx

[Arkana]

1. This ain't WWII.

[high density]

2. It doesn't make sense today because the interest rate sucks

People already know how to go to a bank or treasurydirect.gov and buy bonds.

[karynnj]

3. Does he realize that that is just another way to raise the debt?

[Yupster]

38. That was my first thought too

We're currently borrowing $ 150 billion per month by selling bonds.

How would selling war bonds be any different than the $ 150 billion of bonds we're selling each month now?

[LiberalFighter]

4. Americans were willing to buy war bonds in WWII

They sure as hell won't be willing to pay for this thing voluntarily.

[CreekDog]

5. I'm sure Americans will be willing to buy war bonds

If Germany, Japan and Italy declare war on us again. :eyes:

[Demeter]

14. Or If the Rate of Return Approaches 20% in Real Terms After Taxes

like what the Wall Street crowd expects as Droit de seigneur.

[Paper Roses]

6. I cannot support Middle East wars in any way, let alone buy bonds.

I'll bet this little ditty from the politico's will come to nothing.

Bring the troops home and I promise I will buy a bond.

Uncle Sam, want my dollars? Start shipping the troops back.

I pledge to buy a $100.00 bond. I bet many of us would.

These wars have killed our well being in so many areas, the money will be better spent here.

[Bozita]

7. "has the support of fellow moderate Sen. Joe Lieberman" - MSNBC dispenses the Kool-Aid

[pundaint]

8. Great idea and pay them off only with the war profits!

Require War contractors to accept them as payment for services.

[Bozita]

9. Folks in red states would buy them all up, leaving none for us in blue states.

Kinda like the way all those minorities filled all the vacancies in the military during the Vietnam war. That's why Tom Delay never served his country.

Oh well.

[beac]

22. Nah, all their money is going to buying copies of

'Going Rogue' and contributing to the 'Palin-Bachmann 2012' campaign fund. :rofl:

[Thothmes]

27. Any proof that minorities filled "all" the vacancies in the

military during the Vietnam war.

[jmm]

29. I'm still waiting for proof from Tom DeLay, he's the one that said it.

http://politicalhumor.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=politicalhumor&cdn=entertainment&tm=16&f=00&su=p504.3.336.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//slate.msn.com/id/1002713/

What's DeLay's line about sitting out the war? That he was needed for the war at home against earwigs and cockroaches? (Instead of going into the military, he became an exterminator.) DeLay flack Scanlon said he'd get back to Chatterbox, but never did. Specifically, Chatterbox wanted to know if there was any truth to a report in the Houston Press, a rather emphatically anti-DeLay alternative newspaper, about what DeLay said on this subject at the 1988 Republican convention in New Orleans, when vice-presidential nominee Dan Quayle was under attack for having avoided Vietnam service in the National Guard. (The story was repeated in a Molly Ivins profile of DeLay in the May issue of Playboy.) Here's what the Houston Press reported:

He and Quayle, DeLay explained to the assembled media in New Orleans, were victims of an unusual phenomenon back in the days of the undeclared Southeast Asian war. So many minority youths had volunteered for the well-paying military positions to escape poverty and the ghetto that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like himself. Satisfied with the pronouncement, which dumbfounded more than a few of his listeners who had lived the sixties, DeLay marched off to the convention.

[Bozita]

31. dupe - see reply #29

http://www.slate.com/id/1002713/

What's DeLay's line about sitting out the war? That he was needed for the war at home against earwigs and cockroaches? (Instead of going into the military, he became an exterminator.) DeLay flack Scanlon said he'd get back to Chatterbox, but never did. Specifically, Chatterbox wanted to know if there was any truth to a report in the Houston Press, a rather emphatically anti-DeLay alternative newspaper, about what DeLay said on this subject at the 1988 Republican convention in New Orleans, when vice-presidential nominee Dan Quayle was under attack for having avoided Vietnam service in the National Guard. (The story was repeated in a Molly Ivins profile of DeLay in the May issue of Playboy.) Here's what the Houston Press reported:

He and Quayle, DeLay explained to the assembled media in New Orleans, were victims of an unusual phenomenon back in the days of the undeclared Southeast Asian war. So many minority youths had volunteered for the well-paying military positions to escape poverty and the ghetto that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like himself. Satisfied with the pronouncement, which dumbfounded more than a few of his listeners who had lived the sixties, DeLay marched off to the convention.

Chatterbox has heard many draft-dodger alibis in his time, but he has never heard anyone plead reverse discrimination.

[bluestateguy]

10. Good idea

but I also support a war tax too.

[Mz Pip]

11. Who will buy these bonds???

China?

Pay for it with a sur tax. Maybe we can just tax Dick Cheney. He loves this war shit so much maybe he can pay for it all by himself.

[Bozita]

13. The Afghan government could buy them up with the money we give to them.

Problem solved.

[Bozita]

40. Then banksters could buy them back at a discount, bundle them into new investment vehicles, and sell

... 'em to our pension funds.

[cloudbase]

12. Taxes were increased during WWII.

Before the war, only the four million or so wealthiest Americans paid income taxes. By 1945, over 40 million Americans were paying income taxes. The war saw us going from class taxation to mass taxation. In addition, the practice of tax withholding from paychecks was a product of the war.

[laughingliberal]

35. Republicans and Blue Dogs-they never stop lying nt

[MidwestRick]

15. I'm in for some bonds

However I hope they get more pub than the Patroit Bonds that were issued after 9/11.

[frazzled]

16. And Victory Gardens

While we're at it, let's bring back Rosie the Riveter

[Mari333]

17. He can take his war bonds and shove them where the sun doesnt shine

[movonne]

18. It is not war bonds...it would be invasion bonds..I can see people

rushing out and buying these worthless pieces of paper..

[MidwestRick]

20. They will be the same as the current "Patriot bonds" EE series that are available now.

The government will need to mount a huge ad campaign to market them though as the ones the Republicans created after 9/11 have not sold that well (to my knowledge).

[Miss Authoritiva]

19. Debt funds war...

War bonds are debt with a prettier name. At least a surtax is real-time funding that make voters keenly aware just how much they are paying for a war. I'm guessing that with a surtax, chasing Afghan warlords in and out of caves and up and down treeless mountains and ravines won't seem like such a great way to spend money.

[elmerdem]

21. so Joe

health care bankrupts governments, but wars don't?

"But I think we shouldn't shrink from a war tax in which everybody is asked to contribute a little bit to this effort.", sounds a little socialist to me.

[beac]

23. Lucky for Joe, publicly-funded wars don't cut into corporate profits like

publicly-funded health care would. It's a win-win!

[dtotire]

24. NO--this will just raise the debt

The Chinese will gladly buy the bonds--they've been doing it all along. By the way, taxes were raised significantly during WW II--20% the lowest, while the marginal rate on high incomes was 91%. They used bond drives not to raise money, but to take money out of circulation. Civilian goods were scarce, and if money stayed in circulation, there would be significant inflationary pressure. That was also the reason for rationing goods.

[apnu]

25. That would be awesome!

I'd love to buy banner space on freerepublic.com promoting war bonds and see how many of those chuckle heads would put their money where their mouths are. 'Cuz they certainly won't put their lives on the line by enlisting in our man-power depleted armed forces.

[LarryNM]

26. How About Some Healthcare Bonds? n/t

[DebbieCDC]

28. Just buy 'em but don't try to cash them in.

They'll be as worthless as Confederate money in 1864

[KamaAina]

30. I love it!

When the bonds sell like preferred stock in Enron, that's it for the war!

[mbperrin]

32. They must be thinking of screwing us over like the Liberty Bond fiasco.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_bond

Default of the Fourth Liberty Bond

The first three bonds were retired during the course of the 1920s but the fourth Liberty Bond lasted into the 1930s leading to a technical default on the bond the terms of which were for payment in gold. The fourth Liberty Bond had the following terms:

Date of Bond: October 24, 1918
Coupon Rate: 4.25%
Callable Starting: October 15, 1933
Maturity Date: October 15, 1938
Amount Originally Tendered: $6 billion
Amount Sold: $7 billion

The U.S. Treasury called this bond on April 15th, 1934,<11> but refused to redeem the face value of the bond in gold as required by the terms of bond which read:

The principal and interest hereof are payable in United States gold coin of the present standard of value.
The legal basis for the refusal of the U.S. Treasury to redeem in gold was House Joint Resolution 192, dated June 5, 1933.<13> This resolution was later held to be unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court.

Financial Effect of the Default on Bondholders

Since the United States had devalued the dollar from $20.67 per troy ounce of gold (the 1918 standard of value) to $35 per troy ounce in the preceding year the 21 million<15> bond holders lost $2.866 billion dollars, approximately 41% of the bond's principal. The magnitude of this can be gauged by noting that the total tax receipts of the U.S. government in 1934 were $784 million dollars.

If a default of this magnitude occurred today using 2007 tax receipts as the reference the proportional amount of the loss would be $5.6 trillion dollars.
(Emphasis mine.)

[classysassy]

33. Peace bonds

and use the money to help defeat all of the warmongers in congress.

[quakerboy]

34. Dont care who buys the bonds. Someone buys all the other US debt

What I care about is who pays them back? As long as they are repaid via a targeted "war tax"(starting now, collecting money over time to have a pool of money independant of regular revenue to repay them as they come due), then that sounds good to me. Otherwise, this is just debt, same as every other debt that has been incurred.

[bedazzled]

36. good luck with that! folks will line up to buy bonds in a bankrupt country

sometimes it feels like i'm living in an alternate
reality

[Doctor_J]

37. You can buy some with all of the money you'll save under the new HC plan

oh,wait. that's going to cost you 50-100% more than you're paying now.

[Javaman]

39. How about this Benny?

you support single payer and will will throw you your war bond bullshit?

Otherwise, shut the fuck up.