Vietnam Opts for Japanese Bullet Train

[Lydia Leftcoast]

Source: Japan Times

HANOI (Kyodo) Vietnam has decided to adopt Japan's bullet-train system for a high-speed rail link, officials knowledgeable about the situation revealed Friday.

The decision will boost the global status of Japan's shinkansen technology ahead of its rivals, including France's TGV and Germany's ICE. Shinkansen technology has already been adopted by Taiwan.

Vietnam's decision was delivered to Japan when Prime Ministers Nguyen Tan Dung and Yukio Hatoyama met on the sidelines of the first summit between Japan and five Mekong-region countries in Tokyo in early November, the officials said.

Vietnam's Parliament is expected to officially decide on the project next May, they said.

Read more: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20091212a1.html

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We are struggling along with the underfunded ghost of a 1950s passenger rail system, and Vietnam aspires to build high-speed rail.

[izquierdista]

1. Well, why not?

They have all they money from sewing our shirts and jackets together.

[givemebackmycountry]

2. Wonderful....

How much did we spend trying to bomb them into oblivion?
And now they get a shot at HSR and we are stuck with AMTRACK.

Good for them.
Someone should post this over in Freeperville.

Now, THAT would be interesting.

[corpseratemedia]

3. if we could focus on doing this here on a national scale

jobs creation, energy savings, cleaner environment...


this and creating an alternative energy grid should be this nations primary focus so that the country doesn't collapse into 3rd world status once oil becomes too costly.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

4. uhh... yeah that is a pretty big leap there seeing as Vietnam has an 1850's rail system

I wonder if the Japanese make a model with a hole in the floor for a toilet,

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. Hey, at least they're not CONTENT with their antiquated rail system

unlike some of our people, who think that trains in general are an insult to the Great American Automotive Deity.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

11. No, were just kinda enormous

The novelty of Coast to Coast in 72 Hours has worn off over the last century,

[Tesha]

16. Your math is as bad as your politics.

High-speed rail can easily cross the entire country in 15 hours.
And you don't even need to take off your shoes!

Regionally (not transcontinentally), it will get you there *FASTER*
than air travel.

Tesha

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

17. taken the train in Europe?

On Eurostar you get the full airport security treatment from the same belligerent otherwise unemployable slobs you get with the TSA. I was in Florida in October where the TSA made the news for searching the passengers at the bus station. If the US ever gets these stupid trains you can be sure the TSA will be there. The only reason the TSA doesn't screen Amtrak passengers is few train stations have the space for them to setup checkpoints.

I can get from my office in Costa Mesa, to John Wayne Airport and from there to San Francisco and our office there in Burlingame in two hours flat.

[Tesha]

18. Why yes, I *HAVE* taken the train in Europe!

Here's a hint: England is just as fascist as we are.

Most of the rest of the Continent? Not so much.

Tesha

[reggie the dog]

19. Europe is not Schengen so of course there are customs agents

plus our TGV's cannot run as fast on the UK side as they do on the France side.

[reggie the dog]

20. You can get from Marseille France on the Medeterennean coast

to Brussels near the North Sea in under 5 hours by TGV. That is a thousand KM in 5 hours or 200 km/hours or 125 mph and those are on the old rails. once they are revamped the time will be nearly cut in half. No border patrol exists between France and Belgium and all the rest of the Schengen partners. It is just like crossing from California to Nevada.

[yava]

22. Don'tjust think about yourself

You are one of 6,000,000,000 human beings.
Is it just how you get to work that should decide how the other 5,999,999,999 human beings get to work?
Of course you are free to think and say what you wish, but the decisions will not br made by the 6,000,000,OOO - 5,999,999,999 people you represent!
I wish you a happy Sunday

[Monk06]

8. uhh... the shinkansen will run on a brand new, entirely seperate, high speed rail line

[yava]

21. I think your comment is racist and offensive

What the hell do you have agaist these different people?

[tucsonlib]

5. I'm Confident The U.S. Will Start Building A State-Of-The-Art..

..High Speed Rail system any day now.....

[psychopomp]

6. Good for Japan and Vietnam

It works out very well for both countries.

[girl gone mad]

9. I have a few Vietnamese friends..

I hate to say it, but they are not too big on America. Most of them are simply here to make as much money as possible and can't wait to get back home. From what they tell me, modern day Vietnam is a very beautiful, dynamic country.

[proteus_lives]

10. Yeah, for the those on the winning side and their children.

Vietnam is still a one-party dictatorship. Ask an older Vietnamese person who got out of Vietnam to avoid a communist bullet in the head.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

30. As opposed to a capitalist bullet in the head, which is a-OK.

[WriteDown]

25. Nothing like in-sourcing. nt

[Indenturedebtor]

12. Amazing what you can do when nearly 50% of your budget isn't spent on war n/t

[WriteDown]

26. Do?

Not quite yet.

[and-justice-for-all]

13. Because some countries have their priorities in order

and do not spend kazillions on invasions and occupations of other countries.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. And it's not just Vietnam

South Korea, China, Taiwan, and Thailand are also building or have built high-speed rail.

[Psephos]

34. You don't realize the irony of that statement, I guess. ;) n/t

[harmonicon]

15. why didn't they consider US high-speed rail technology?

ohh....... oh... gosh.... jeez. That is a little embarrassing.

USA! USA! USA!

[Big_Mike]

23. The US is literally not ready for high speed rail

There are a number of issues involved:

1. You cannot realistically share rail between freight that moves 75 mph at its fastest and 200+ mph passenger traffic. Causes way too many scheduling difficulties.
   
   
2. Obtaining right-of-way and building overpasses to avoid grade level crossings where automotive traffic crosses the rails. I'd hate to see a 200+ mph train hit a semi. Currently train vs. auto doesn't wipe out the train. All bets would be off at that speed, I think. Plus, as the initial clause suggests, paying for the land for these lines will be horribly expensive. Then there is the 15 - 20 years of the endless environmental impact reports.
   
   
3. Mountains. I don't know about the Chinese lines, but no other lines cross mountains like the Appalachians, let alone the Rockies or the Coastal ranges like those of Mt. Ranier, Mt. Hood, or Mt. Shasta. Generally, mountains mean drilling. That is what Japan and Switzerland have had to do, and their mountains are no where near as tough as those of North America.
   
   
4. This is a capital improvement project that would easily run into the tens of trillions of dollars. Do we have the national will to do this? What if we tried to do the National Interstate project today rather than in the 1950s?
   
   
5. The inveterate whiners and complainers would swarm the legal system. All the millions of NIMBYs would each demand (and likely receive) their day in court. How many spotted darters or desert tortoises (just to name a few) would be endangered by this? Can we build new rail lines back east? Is there room in the Northeast? The mid-West and West would be easier, but I can just hear the screaming now.
   

I know we are going to end up doing this, but I don't see it running any earlier than 2035. (Admission: I work in the rail industry for a rail supply corporation).

I know billions have been promised, but this job could cost between $10 and $20 Trillion dollars. The amount of wayside equipment alone is staggering. As a comparison, those costs were approximately $15000 per mile in 2005 (Source: http://www.trforum.org/journal/2005sum/article6.php?PHPSESSID=fbdb344a78c45318ecec1ab8fa07c524">Positive Train Control (PTC): Calculating Benefits and Costs of a New Railroad Technology and $1M per mile to build single track line.

Since this would have to be a minimum of 2 lines, and likely 3, estimated cost is a couple MILLION dollars per mile, just to construct the line. While this won't be the full 99,000 track miles currently in existence, I think the total would be a minimum of 15,000 (parallel the interstates: One parallel to the US - Canadian like I-90/80, one mid-way like I-70/64, and one southern like I-40/10 (each about 2500 or so miles). Then one paralleling I-5, one like I-15/25/35, one like I-55/65/75, one between I-75 and I-95, and then a final one like I-95 itself with each of these essentially 1000 miles, plus lateral linkages. So we have a minimum (in 2005 dollars) of $15,000,000,000 for a single line track. Double or triple the per mile cost in foothills and minimum of $1B per mile of tunnel(as an example, the Chunnel cost $15B for 95 miles of track, and that was easier to build and of shorter duration to build). Wayside equipment costs would be around $220B overall. Then figure cost overruns, stupidity of people, and graft then spread the increasing costs over 20 years, and it is at least a couple of trillion dollars.

I do not doubt at all that we have the expertise to build this. The question is do we have the national will? Congress now fights horribly for social programs vs defense programs. Could this fight even take place?

And more importantly: Should it?

Edited to eliminate a repeated sentence.

[WriteDown]

27. What a great post...

You left out only one think I think. If we ever did try this, it would require copious amounts of eminent domain be used.

[Big_Mike]

33. Thanks for your kindness

I read daily but seldom post. I prefer good debates to the flame wars some love, so I don't post much. I've been on the board about 5 years and only post every month or two. But kind words are always appreciated. :)

Re eminent domain, this would be a taking the likes of which the Mongol hordes could not achieve.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

28. It's been twenty or more years since I rode the line to Niigata,

which travels through some pretty mountainous country (higher than the Appalachians for sure), but I don't remember a lot of tunnels.

The Shinkansen do run on dedicated tracks, which are welded together to ensure a smooth ride. The stretches in mountainous areas include heating elements to keep the tracks open during the regions heavy snowfalls.

I don't think anyone is talking about building a nationwide high-speed rail system yet, but we could start with regional ones, say one centered on Chicago, with tracks radiating to Cleveland, Detroit, St. Louis, Milwaukee, and Minnneapolis. That would be the pilot project, and one with relatively easy topography.

Once that part was finished, the rest of the nation's major urban centers would be clamoring for their own lines. (This is what happened in Japan. Every area wants its own Shinkansen or an extension of the existing lines.)

I bet it would be cheaper than maintaining soldiers indefinitely in Afghanistan.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

29. The San Francisco-LA (400 miles) high speed line is estimated at $33B.

Your estimate of $10T-$20T is a tad high. More likely on the order of $1T. (The estimated cost of Obama's national hs rail plan was $500B)

[Big_Mike]

31. If we were able to produce it immediately (

But given how governments work and the way prices soar, over a 20 - 30 year period, I'll stand by my estimate.

Here locally, we were going to build a bridge 10 years ago. It was projected for $1.2M. Today's price is over $20M.

I'd love to see it happen, as I rode the rails everywhere in Europe. I just really don't see it happening here any sooner.

[Psephos]

35. IMO, you should be posting more than once every month or two. :) n/t

[Octafish]

24. Well, we can't afford it because we're fighting another war.

Vietnam has found better things to do.

[rug]

32. 40 years ago the war was escalated to save civilization.