Senator says opposition grows to Medicare buy-in

[andym]

Source: AP

WASHINGTON — Two senators whose support for the health care overhaul has been in question are speaking out against a proposal to let people as young as 55 buy into Medicare.

Independent Joe Lieberman of Connecticut says opposition is growing to the Medicare buy-in. Lieberman says that he'd "have a hard time voting for it."

Democrat Ben Nelson of Nebraska says he fears the proposal could lead to single-payer government health care.

The proposal was part of a compromise when Senate Democrats dropped the idea of setting up a federal health insurance plan in the marketplace. Many Democrats who favored that option have found the Medicare plan appealing. But several moderates are against it, and Democrats need all their votes.

Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iO_EnlvrVLbLbUv50EOUi_qKytGAD9CIHG5O0

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This was from Face the Naton today (Sunday Dec 13, 2009) Looks like Ben Nelson and Lieberman finally realized that Medicare is single-payer. I was worried that they might realize that opening Medicare was probably a direct road to single-payer and withdraw their preliminary support.

Note that this is different from criticism by other Senators about Medicare's inefficient payment system (quality vs quantity) discussed here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4182230&mesg_id=4182230

[emulatorloo]

1. If they are against it, I am for it

[HowHasItComeToThis]

31. WHEN WILL WE START TO CONTROL LIEBERMAN

[emulatorloo]

58. He's controlled by AETNA. Is there a way to work around him?

[Bette Noir]

45. +100

[katandmoon]

2. How did I know it would be them?

[Akoto]

3. I'm not so much against it, but I have a concern ...

That being, what's the plan for covering young people?

It seems to be a forgotten fact that young people can get sick. I'm 24, disabled with chronic pain. Can't work, can't do much of anything. There are potential treatments which could at least ease some of my pain, but I can't afford them. Insurance companies won't touch me with a 10 foot pole, and SSI is dragging out the process as long as it can. I'm waiting to go before a judge and don't expect a date until next year.

Being young and sick counts against you in this system. The public option was a ray of hope for me, but it seems to be fading as things like the Medicare buy-in grow.

[Cleita]

7. The expansion of Medicaid in the bill not to mention SCHIPS that was

recently updated would help cover young people. Extending the cut off date to I believe 26 years of age that young people can be carried on their parent's insurance is also on this bill. However, unless there is a way that everyone can access a national health care program if they choose to, there will never be 100% coverage and there will always be those who fall through the cracks in the system. I'm very disappointed in the callousness these corporate whore senators are displaying towards the suffering of the average American.

[madmom]

16. But would this expansion of medicaid cover young people who don't

have kids? It doesn't now. My daughter is 26, single, no money, full time student, they won't even talk to her because she has no kids, in other words she being responsible.

[Cleita]

22. Who knows. The way things look now, they are going to try to strip out even

that.

[WriteDown]

42. Should be easy enough for her to have kids....

Just kidding of course, but I've met people in the same exact boat.

[gateley]

10. Agree - don't they realize they're ignoring a huge population of VOTERS

by not extending this to everybody? (I'm not sure they actually CARE about you and me, just our votes.)

I just don't understand why they're being so fucking stupid about this whole deal.

And, even the people who DO qualify have to wait until 2011!

This seems okay as far as it goes, but as you point out, it falls far short of 'ensuring all Americans have good, affordable health care'.

Good luck - I've heard horror stories about how the SSI drags things out -- are they hoping the filers will die first? :shrug: :grr:

[Cleita]

13. Yeah, it took my mother two years to get her check.

When she got it, it was over $2,000 because the pay was retroactive. I put it in the bank for her. She was in the hospital and she died of her cancer that night. It did cover her funeral expenses. I myself was unemployed at the time and collecting unemployment. I had five dollars to my name when I had to go make all the arrangements. I really believe someone was looking out for me, considering how things worked out money wise anyway.

[laughingliberal]

35. I believe they do hope the filers will die first

I learned when I was working in the AIDS epidemic in Houston how merciless the system can be for the disabled. A large number are turned down and forced to appeal, dragging it out for long periods. Then, once you are approved, there is a 2 year waiting period for Medicare coverage. Most of my patients were approved quickly as the guidelines for AIDS were cut and dried in those days but most of them, in those days, died before they were eligible for Medicare.

[Garam_Masala]

15. Basically you have very little help!

You will be covered by health insurance but who knows how high your
rates will be. If there is no public option, you are at the mercy of
private insurance rates.

Healthy young folks are screwed because they will be mandated to pay
for insurance or pay the fine every year.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

41. It's not just "healthy young folks" who will be screwed by the mandate.

There are plenty of Americans in between young and Medicare-age who will be screwed as well. One of my 40-something friends is self-employed and pays close to $500/month for health insurance, about $6,000 per year. Obviously, not every American can afford that.

This healthcare "reform" is a fucking joke.

[pinto]

19. I hope your SSI review goes well. Having done a stint as a benefits counselor in the 90's my advice:

Documentation, documentation, documentation.

Bury them in documentation. Seen more than one doc for chronic pain?, send them those medical records. Made an ER visit or two?, send them the ER reports. Seen an alternative practitioner?, send them the record. Seen a therapist?, send them the record. Document how your condition affects *you* on a day-to-day basis and send that to them, however minor some of the stuff might seem. And whenever you see a health care professional, mention those issues - they will document them in the course of their records.

Much of the decision making process is obviously done on the paperwork they have in hand. Good luck to you.

[laughingliberal]

36. Good advice! nt

[Akoto]

51. I appreciate your advice ...

Some of it, I can take and use.

We do have a file of every single thing we've done - doctors' records, tests, etc - and our lawyer gets copies of everything. My doctor has also said that I'm (in his opinion) disabled, and has noted that decision within his reports.

A big problem is that it's difficult to give them hard evidence. I have a muscular dysfunction involving the pelvic floor, and it takes a specialized physical therapist to recognize and treat it. SS doctors aren't even allowed to do a rectal exam, so there's no way they can palpate the pelvic floor. I actually had to explain to their doc what was wrong with me, as he'd openly admitted to knowing nothing about it, and was forbidden to touch the muscles where the dysfunction is most apparent. How can you make an educated judgment with no knowledge of the illness?

MRIs and other scans won't show things like chronic muscle spasm, either. I've done those tests, but the technology has its limits. They really have to go by the word of my PT and PM doctor, the former being more important in my actual treatment.

In the first two rejections, they seemed to give little consideration to the physical therapist's diagnosis. She holds a Doctorate and specializes in my problem, so I can't really do any better than that. The second rejection kinda-sorta admitted that I'm disabled, but not enough for them (or something). I can't sit down, so I don't know how they expect me to drive to work from the suburbs. I guess I lay down and steer with my feet, hoping there's nobody in my way.

Sorry to be graphic, and to have vented!

[Iowa]

59. Use a lawyer who specializes in SS. Most general practitioners have no clue.

And make sure you check around. I worked in a disability related field for many years (now retired). There were two lawyers in my area that specialized in SS. One of them won almost all his cases. The other lost most of them. Who you choose can make all the difference.

Also, if you have had involvement with Vocational Rehabilitation, consider asking them to help in your appeal. But again, it depends entirely upon the quality of the VR Counselor. Some are very good, but some are useless. If you worked with one who is clueless, he/she will do more harm than good.

And by the way, a doctor saying you are disabled is almost worthless. I saw this countless times... the doctor tells the patient he/she is disabled, and makes some broad comment in the records to that effect. But the records don't back it up at all. SS could care less that a doctor thinks the patient is disabled. They will require very specific documentation describing the person's precise limitations. And when asked for such specific documentation, the doctor usually collapses like a cheap tent and ends up doing more harm than good. The definition of "disabled" in the SS system is very rigid and may mean something entirely different than your doctor thinks it means. Most doctors have no clue about this, and when pressed for specifics, they will tank your claim. So be sure you're on the same page as your doctor. Tell her/him specifically what you need to document, and ask them to do it.

In a chronic pain situation there can be a strong psychological impact on the person (usually depression and anxiety). The psychological component can be quite disabling. If that is an issue for you, get it documented. And like everything else, the quality of the psychologist is key. Finding a good psychologist can be difficult and usually requires access to someone in a related field who has worked with many of them in your area.

It's a very tough road to navigate. Few with rare/difficult-to-document conditions succeed. If you can find good, solid professionals who will take the time to support you, your chances increase greatly.

Good luck.

[SkyDaddy7]

33. I hate to hear about your situation...

I really hope you can get the help you need. I get so mad hearing story after story of how this so-called "christian nation" could care less about its people!

I know all to well...

I was in school full time and working but i was on my wife's insurance (Principal)...I suffered a spinal cord injury and had to have 2 spinal surgeries and in house rehab for 8 weeks. Then I developed Neuropathic Pain down my left side not long after I got out of the hospital and was going through some intensive testing & medical trials in hopes of finding some relief. In the meantime I was approved for SS Disability and then my insurance dropped me! They actually sent me info on how to sign up for Medicare since I was approved for SS! Talk about CORPORATE WELFARE! These insurance companies know they can purge their books of those who actually need insurance and basically turn responsibility over to the Gov. Or just leave folks like yourself with nothing! DISGUSTING!

Anyway, my wife and I had to get divorced so that my income was such that allowed me to sign up for Medicare...Despite getting Medicare I have $500 a month in medicine that is going to break us! I may have to give up taking my medicine in order to keep our house. Either way will be a nightmare!

Hand in there and hopefully help is on its way in one form or another.

[Bette Noir]

46. Under current law, you are already covered under Medicare, as of two years

from the time you became disabled. If no one has told you this, you need a better lawyer.

I agree that the Medicare buy-in is not as favorable to young people as the public option would have been, but the Senate already made sure we couldn't get that. The Medicare buy-in is a damn sight better than nothing.

[Akoto]

50. I have not yet been declared legally disabled, at least by SS.

My doctor agrees that I am disabled, but that doesn't seem to count for a lot.

I was declared ineligible for full disability because I didn't have enough work credits. That's why I'm going for SSI. Calling Medicaid was a fruitless endeavor, as they also said I couldn't have it. I'll have to get back to you on why -- my mother handled the call due to me being a bit of a wreck, and I can't recall their exact reason. I do know they were more than willing to grant it if I had a child, but I don't.

Having a rare condition, in addition to my age and work history, has been a real problem. Very few doctors know what it is, much less people at Social Security. I have to drive two hours to see a pain management doc who has any experience treating the condition.

[Cleita]

4. The usual suspects, it seems.

I guess we should call them what they are, murderers for everyone who dies because they couldn't get the timely health care they needed when their private insurance failed them. What is being offered is safety nets for those people the insurance companies reject. I find even then that all they are doing is throwing us is a bone and those senators don't even want us to have that.

I think it's time for single payer to come back on the table in a big way.

[andym]

6. Medicare for All or something similar is clearly the best solution

of those discussed. But if Congress can't even get enough support for a limited Medicare buy-in (which I thought was at least a move in the right direction), or a weak "public option", how can single-payer advance?

[Cleita]

12. The same way MLK got the civil rights movement happening in the sixties.

Many of us have been badgering our Senators and Congressional Reps telling them what we want, but we really have to get their attention. No more being nice. Just write those dissenting Blue Dogs and Republicans and tell them that they are murderers if they obstruct any legislation that gives Americans health care access when they need it. Better than that try to get media to let you make the accusation in print (LTTE), radio (call into talk shows) and TV. If we could get Oprah to run a series of shows on this, it really would shame them into it. They can no longer claim ignorance. The free clinics that are being held lately in various large cities point to the extent of the problem. The websites that tell people's stories of relatives and friends who died unnecessarily because of our failed system point to the problem. They are murderers if they are not moved to tears with what is going on and legislate against the very real need of the American people.

Apparently, all the Republicans want is to make Obama fail. They don't care if your loved ones die for lack of access to health care. The Blue Dogs only care about their campaign contributions. They don't care either. We have to make them care even if it's only to shame them into doing the right thing.

[Garam_Masala]

18. Medicare for all is the best only if...

other cost controls are put into law. Such as limits on
frivolous monetary awards by juries who are not medical professionals,
interstate competition between insurers and limiting medical treatments
with questionable benefits and which are horrendously expensive to administer.

Otherwise Medicare will go broke sooner than current schedule.

[Cleita]

27. Of course it should have safeguards. That only makes sense, but

our neighbors to the north in Canada seem to be able to do it. Why can't we? Read HR 676, the house single payer bill that Nancy Pelosi won't bring to the floor. It covers all those things while expanding Medicare to meet the needs of all the American people. I think you will see there is no reason for your concerns if this bill can be made into law.

[Garam_Masala]

56. Explain to me why Medicare is on schedule to go broke?

It is single payer and run by government just like Canada.

In your opinion how come Canada can do it but we can't.
Also I do not know what premium rates are in Canada. I would like
to know those rates if you have a good idea what they are.

My feeling is that current Medicare plan covers people over 65 only
and that is the most expensive group. If all ages were covered, it should
benefit the system because younger people have less health problems in
general. May be that is why Canada can do it.

[Cleita]

61. There is nothing about Medicare that can't be fixed.

Medicare is being bled of funds by Medicare Advantage programs and the POS Medicare Part D brought to us by the corporate Republicans. Take care of that and Medicare will be on an even keel again. Canadians pay taxes for their health care not premiums except for extra coverage that has nothing to do with their basic health plan.

I agree with your last paragraph and it seems we can deliver quality healthcare to the most expensive group for half of what the privately insured younger demographic costs. We would be much better off including everyone in Medicare and telling the insurance companies to take a hike when it comes to basic health care. All the western democracies do it successfully because they keep the Wall Street profit aspect out of their health care.

[Bette Noir]

47. Do you get your talking points by phone, or via email?

[Garam_Masala]

57. I get it through electrical activity in my own brain!

Hey God gave me one and I try to use it LOL.

[Spirochete]

5. Well, that settles it

if those two fuckstains don't want it, it surely must be worth having.

[earthside]

8. Me, too.

For very different reasons than Lie-berman and Nelson.

The Medicare buy-in, as we hearing about it, is too limited, too restrictive and costs too much for those buying-in.

Mostly, though, it sounds like a fig leaf to cover-up for no public option.

I'm not falling for it.

I sadly have come to the conclusion that this effort at health insurance reform has become such a mess, such a gift to corporate insurance companies that it ought to be scraped.

When the Senate Democrats grow a backbone and change Rule 22 and get rid of the anti-democratic filibuster, then the progressive majority can exercise the will of the people. Until then all good legislation will be held hostage to three or four reactionary, conservative 'Democrats' and we're going to see the cynicism in the country towards Washington keep growing.

[Matariki]

9. These fuckers. I'm trying to get a sense of just what it is the *do* want

so far it seems like things pretty much the way they are, but mandatory purchase for all.

[jtrockville]

17. Exactly. Protecting profits for the insurance industry is the top concern.

Providing health care is just the avenue for delivering profits. If the insurance industry can't profit, then what's the point of having health care?

[dkf]

11. If they could they would probably get rid of medicare period.

Well they are showing their true stripes.

[Cleita]

14. Oh that's been in the plans since the days Newt Gingrich was in charge.

They want to move it all into Medicare Advantage programs, which the insurance companies run, and kill traditional Medicare altogether. It's how that useless POS legislation Medicare Part D operates.

[shadowknows69]

20. Of course it does.

[dysfunctional press]

21. medicare isn't actually single-payer, as it only pays 80%...

somebody else(another payer) has to come up with the other 20%.

[Cleita]

24. You have to buy medigap insurance for that, but at least it's regulated.

They can't deny you coverage and they have to pay the 20% that Medicare approves. I would rather see 100% coverage and give the money I pay in premiums for medigap to Medicare if they would cover the other 20%. Then it would be truly single payer. Read John Conyer's bill HR 676, which improves Medicare, covers everything and covers everyone. It's what we need for everyone, however, I think it would also make a great public option too.

[dysfunctional press]

28. "They can't deny you coverage..." BULLSHIT.

i'm 48 and disabled, but nobody is required to sell me supplemental coverage- and they won't..at ANY price.
i won't be able to get supplemental coverage until i turn 65, and they are required to sell it to me- but there is no limit on what they can charge me for it.
until then- i'm on my own, as far as that 20% is concerned.

[Cleita]

30. That's because you are 48 and you are covered under different laws than

those of us who are over sixty-five. Before you become so accusatory in tone and in calling me a liar, get your facts straight. I have been on Medicare for five years. I could chose any medigap policy offered with no denial of coverage. Every December I can choose to go with another company with no denial of coverage, which I just did this year, in spite of my pre-existing medical problems. As long as the insurers agree to Medicare's rules, they must pay the copay for every medical procedure Medicare approves. I know those of you who get it under the age of 65 don't have the same rules as us oldsters.

[dysfunctional press]

32. i'm on medicare due to permanent disability, and i'm being denied coverage...

so yes- your statement that they cannot deny coverage is COMPLETE BULLSHIT.

and i've been on medicare for 10 years now.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dysfunctional press]

37. see you next tuesday.

:hi:

[grilled onions]

49. Same Here

They tell us to take control of our own situation but they have control of the laws--they have the power to tell us what to do(with one hand) and then slap us down with the other when we try to cover our behinds with some form of supplemental insurance. It may be chump change to them but that 20% sure drains the checking account fast.

[dysfunctional press]

60. i'm no longer paying that 20%

and as the collectors call- i tell them exactly why.

if nobody is required to sell me coverage, then i don't feel obligated to pay that 20% that medicare doesn't cover.

[Guilded Lilly]

23. No surprise

on the individuals, on the timing or the sentiment.

The moment any official is elected, unless they are independently wealthy and can ignore the hands of lobbyists trying to shove their hands in their wallet pocket, or have an unmovable positive character, their *standing up for their constituents* basically ends.

Once they dwell inside the beltway, those outside of the beltway become an annoyance until their X is needed in the correct box again.

It hasn't changed over the decades. It won't change much over the coming decades. Greed and power are the defining gold rings of politics. Not for everyone, granted. but those who use the public for personal financial and political gains need to be taken to serious task. And apparently only *in their face* confrontation and massive phone calls/emails/protesting seems to get their attention.

SO we need to get our fingers/keyboards/protesting shoes and phones working overtime. Those are our only weapons.

I truly don't know who they think they are trying to impress when they hide behind bullshit talking points. Or let me put it this way, I truly DO know and it scares me to think that there ARE enough people out there who suck in the BS like air.

[BREMPRO]

25. Again with the Lieberman. he'll obstruct ANYTHING that affects his precious insurance industry

profits- even if it save the American people money. What a total douche.

[Kablooie]

26. Why is it the teabag idiots are totally winning? We will have no health bill at all.

[and-justice-for-all]

29. Those fucks are not Democrats, but corporate whores.nt

[droidamus2]

38. When, just when!!!

When are Obama and the Democratic leadership going to realize that you can't 'compromise' with these asshats! To them a compromise by the opposition is just one more step toward getting what they want and that is to kill anything in the health care legislation that doesn't directly help the health insurance industry. I don't care whether it is the wingnuts in the Republican party or the Democrats own right wing idiots it is time to realize that they do not negotiate in good faith and cannot not be trusted to live up to any promises they may make. I still don't understand why Lieberman is even involved he is one 'independent' Senator tell him to caucus with himself and take away any positions of power he holds. If he wants to act like a Republican tell to go and join them. This kind a capitulation and letting the opposition run rough shod over your agenda is why I am going to reregister as an independent after 38 years as a registered Democrat. I am embarassed to call myself a Democrat right now the leadership stands for nothing but lip service and giving in.

I was thinking if LBJ and the Democratic leadership had been like Obama, Reid and Pelosi when it came to the Civil Rights Voting Act we would have heard something like this. Well. let's see, you minorities should be glad that we got the laws saying you have to use seperate drinking fountains and bathrooms banned. Gee, and we got you that ammendment that says you don't have to seat in the back of the bus on any bus trip over 1000 miles and you have to be served in restaurants on Wednesday and Thursday's that fall on an odd numbered days. You have to understand that we couldn't even discuss that voting rights thing because that was a real deal killer. We tried to get it so you could cast an 'advisory vote' to let the ruling class know how you felt but the conservatives in our party wouldn't go for it. So just be happy with what you got it's just a first step and some time at an undetermined time in the future we might revisit this and see if we can make hotels let you use the front door.

[andym]

53. To be fair, LBJ got significant Republican support on voting rights

because many of the Southern Dems would not go along... That kind of cross-party support has vanished.

But your points about how compromised current legislation has become is well taken.

[BattyDem]

39. Once again, our side gives in and accepts a compromise ...

and then the other side attacks the compromise. This keeps happening over and over again. You can't compromise with people who don't want to change anything because no matter what you give up, it's never good enough. They always want more.

[jaysunb]

40. Time to start thinking, "reconciliation? "

:shrug:

[depakid]

43. Ben Nelson fears single payer...

The face of the abusive Insurance

Do you suppose he realizes that he's as responsible for the continuing economic decline in the US as any Republican?

[liberalpragmatist]

44. What the FUCK do these fuckers want?

I'm very rarely intemperate, but this is fucking nuts. In Nelson's case, we first moved from a strong public option to a weak one, then moved to "opt-out" (which he initially said he could support), then when he changed his mind, moved to Medicare buy-in plus a trigger - which he negotiated! Now even THAT's not good enough for him?

God, I wish we could find someone to primary his ass. I know it's Nebraska, but hell, as much of a tool as Bob Kerrey was sometimes, he was still ten times the man Ben Nelson is.

[David__77]

48. They better fucking circumvent a filibuster. There will be no bill with 60 votes, period!

This is utter and complete bullshit and is the height of incompetence!

[NeoConsSuck]

52. I wonder

if the reason the insurance companies aren't complaining about the Medicare for 55 and up, is they don't want to insure that age group anyway. At that age and up, you usually go to the doctors more often as body parts start to wear out.

[New Dawn]

54. All they want is the fascist "Individual Mandate"...

Which will force us to buy a service (low coverage "health insurance") from private companies. Those companies will then jack up their prices once the Mandate goes into effect. Those who try to resist that tyranny will be heavily fined by the IRS.

[StreetKnowledge]

55. We Give up the Public Option to placate you fuckers......

......And then you do this?

Memo to Reid - grow a pair and go for single payer. You aren't gonna get these assholes to support you, so to hell with them. Call up reconciliation and leave Lieberman and Nelson and the rest of the Blue Dog Traitors out in the cold.

[w4rma]

62. Reconciliation the bill, then. Pass single payer, instead. Nuke these greedheads.

If they don't want to play ball, then pass a bill they'll really hate. If they want to play ball, then pass a bill with them that they won't hate.

[NoodleyAppendage]

63. I personally want to kick CT voters who voted for Lieberman in their teeth.

Lieberman has to be the worst WHORE in the Senate, bar none.

Reid gets some BALLS and kick that asshole out of the caucus and strip him of his chairmanship. Lieber-asshole needs to learn a lesson. He's a friggin' Repuke scumbag anyway, so what's the loss in kicking him out of the caucus? Seriously. If he's kicked out, he will be forced to run for re-election as an independent or repuke in CT.

J