Democrats move toward dropping medicare expansion

[IndianaGreen]

Source: Washington Post

Posted at 6:45 PM ET, 12/14/2009

Democrats move toward dropping medicare expansion

By Shailagh Murray

Senate Democrats emerged from a special caucus meeting Monday night determined to pass a health-care bill by Christmas -- but without the Medicare buy-in plan that liberals had sought as an alternative to a government insurance option.

The Medicare buy-in was never warmly embraced by moderate Democrats, but independent Sen. Joseph Lieberman(Conn), whose vote is needed to break a GOP filibuster, appears to have dealt the proposal a mortal blow when he informed Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (Nev.) on Sunday that he wouldn't support the buy-in plan in any form.

In the Monday evening meeting, Reid urged Democrats to accept political reality and move the $848 billion bill across the finish line without the proposal.

"It appeared that would be necessary," Sen. Evan Bayh (D-Ind.), a moderate, said in response to a question about whether the Medicare expansion would be dropped as he left the caucus.



Read more: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/health-care-reform/daily-dose/?hpid=topnews

[Aramchek]

1. got Spam?

[Blue_In_AK]

2. No Medicare expansion, no public option...

Just exactly what DO we get out of all this?

[Kali]

we get to buy our own K-Y, I guess

[DesertFlower]

13. well said. nt

[Cherchez la Femme]

47. But Viagra will be covered!

although it's not needed where they're sticking it to us, but anyhow:

Yay!!!11!1!

:cry:

[yourout]

7. We get forced to buy expensive insurance.....nice isn't it.

[defendandprotect]

28. $600 BILLION for the insurance corporations . . . !!!

[IndianaGreen]

9. You get the mandates, old boy!

We need to pump some cash into the health industry. This will be good for the stocks. This will be good for Evan and Susan Bayh's stock portfolios.

:sarcasm:

Senator Evan Bayh's wife sits on the board of WellPoint. The Bayhs have made millions out of their investments in the health insurance industry and Big Pharma. Evan Bayh voted with Ben Nelson on Nelson's version of the Stupak amendment. Evan Bayh is running for reelection in 2010 because he feels he is entitled to the votes from the same people he has put the screws on.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blue_Tires]

42. it was NEVER about what "we" were going to get out of this...

when lobbyists and multi-billion dollar insurance/pharmacy execs are given the most prominent place at the negotiating table, it was easy to see it was doomed from the start...

[No Elephants]

82. That depends. Do you own stock in health insurance or drug companies?

If so, you'll probably do a lot better with it, even better than you have in the past. In other words, Wall Street wins and Main Street loses.

Yet again.

[Moochy]

3. that idiot was far too close too the white house

Joe Liebermann to the rest of Senate Democrats, "Ehhhhhh Suck, it, wimps!"

[polichick]

4. "Political reality" my ass. More like a convenient retreat from real change. nt

[Frances]

25. I don't get why so many DUers use the logic of the tea baggers.

I thought DUers were able to think rather than just complain. But if you are going to complain, I think you should blame whoever thought up the 60 vote rule!

[Mithreal]

34. Why not blame the founders.

Let's blame the people who see solutions but are trying everything else first.

It's not complaining if you tell someone who can do something about it. Each of us can.

Thinking has been beaten out of a lot of us.

Give people time to think.

[Cherchez la Femme]

49. It's the fault of the 60 vote rule

used for god knows how long in this our Republic,
instead of the politicians who are NOT representing the people but the corporations?!
:wow:
The things you learn here on Democratic Underground!

[Synicus Maximus]

50. It currently takes 67 votes to change Senate rules.

As far as filibusters go, from Wikipedia.. not the best source but I don't feel like digging deeper.


The filibuster remained a solely theoretical option until the late 1830s. The first Senate filibuster occurred in 1837. In 1841, a defining moment came during debate on a bill to charter the Second Bank of the United States. Senator Henry Clay tried to end debate via majority vote. Senator William R. King threatened a filibuster, saying that Clay "may make his arrangements at his boarding house for the winter". Other Senators backed King, and Clay backed down.<12>
20th century and the emergence of cloture

In 1917, a rule allowing for the cloture of debate (ending a filibuster) was adopted by the Democratic Senate<13> at the urging of President Woodrow Wilson.<14> From 1917 to 1949, the requirement for cloture was two-thirds of those voting.

In 1946, Southern Senators blocked a vote on a bill proposed by Democrat Dennis Chavez of New Mexico (S. 101) that would have created a permanent Fair Employment Practices Committee (FEPC) to prevent discrimination in the work place. The filibuster lasted weeks, and Senator Chavez was forced to remove the bill from consideration after a failed cloture vote even though he had enough votes to pass the bill. As civil rights loomed on the Senate agenda, this rule was revised in 1949 to allow cloture on any measure or motion by two-thirds of the entire Senate membership; in 1959 the threshold was restored to two-thirds of those voting. After a series of filibusters led by Southern Democrats in the 1960s over civil rights legislation, a "tracking" system devised by then Majority Whip Robert Byrd was put into place. Tracking allows the majority leader - with unanimous consent or the agreement by the minority leader - to have more than one bill pending on the floor as unfinished business. Before the introduction of tracking, a filibuster would stop the Senate from moving on to any other legislative activity. With a two-track system, the Senate simply puts aside the filibustered measure and moves on to other legislation.<15>

Finally, the Democratic-controlled Senate<13> in 1975 revised its cloture rule so that three-fifths of the Senators sworn (usually 60 senators) could limit debate. The filibuster or the threat of a filibuster remains an important tactic that allows a minority to affect legislation. Senator Strom Thurmond (D/R-SC) set a record in 1957 by filibustering the Civil Rights Act of 1957 for 24 hours and 18 minutes,<16> although the bill ultimately passed. Thurmond broke the previous record of 22 hours and 26 minutes which Wayne Morse (I-OR) had established in 1953 protesting the Tidelands Oil legislation.

The filibuster has tremendously increased in frequency of use since the 1960s. In the 1960s, no Senate term had more than seven filibusters. One of the most notable filibusters of the 1960s was when southern Democratic Senators attempted, unsuccessfully, to block the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 by making a filibuster that lasted for 75 hours. In the first decade of the 21st century, no Senate term had fewer than 49 filibusters. The 1999-2002 Senate terms both had 58 filibusters.<17> The 110th Congress broke the record for cloture votes reaching 112 at the end of 2008<18><19>, though cloture votes are increasingly used for purposes unrelated to filibusters.<11>

[PSPS]

71. No, 51 votes can change a rule

[ArcticFox]

67. You're kidding, right?

[No Elephants]

83. 50 Senators plus Biden could change that rule today, so who thought it up is irrelevant.

Ditto who kept the 60 vote rule in place all these years (i.e., both Parties).

Thing is, none of these jerks, whether Republicrat or Demlican, wants to give up the ability to hold the Senate hostage, as Lieberman and the other Purple Snakes have been doing with health care. What the majority of the country wants is irrelevant to them. So, no one touches the rule, not the Democrats, when they have a majority, and not the Republicans, when they have the majority.

Is it odd that it takes only 51 votes to change the 60 vote rule? Yes, but that's why they call it the nuclear option (emphasis on option).

At some point, we have to get past the distraction of Republican vs. Democrat and realize that it's the majority of Americans who are getting hurt by both parties, in this way and so many others.

Wake up, America.

[defendandprotect]

59. Too much corporate money weighing them down . ..????

MEDICARE FOR ALL --

[msongs]

5. bayh is a moderate republican POS. our whole party is hijacked by just a few pcs of scum nt

[villager]

6. Well. Of course they do.

n/t

[Walk away]

8. Ho Ho Ho! Just in time for Christmas and hundreds of thousands of..

jobless people looking forward to the end of their Cobra assistance. It's an especially big slap in the face for those who are least likely to find a job, people who's age increases a company's insurance premiums.

This country simply sucks. Red State and Blue, it's all the same.

[MiniMe]

11. So just what kind of "reform" does Joe support?

So far, Joe supports no reform at all.

[Mithreal]

12. Reform of the Dem party in his image?

[Uben]

14. I'm moving toward dropping democrats!

Two can play that game!

[and-justice-for-all]

40. I second that...nt

[BlueIdaho]

15. We're gonna get killed in 2010 and Obama will be out in 2012.

Too many expectations being crushed by the inertia and corruption of DC.

Do yourself a favor and find a nice little socialist country to retire to - this place is abandoning its middle class and rapidly heading toward a society of haves and the have-nots.

[dysfunctional press]

17. if this goes thru- they've lost my vote in both elections.

and no- i WON'T change my mind. this is a betrayal of the people of proportions i've never experienced in my lifetime.

[SoapBox]

21. re: if this goes thru...

and Double Ditto!

[Mithreal]

23. You need a soapbox to say Double Ditto?

[Mithreal]

22. Then just push them further into the loving embrace of corporations.

I say this as someone who thinks you make interesting points at times, and I know you are not the first to say this, but this post is like holding your breath. The Congress already knows Americans tend toward apathy and anger, but I would rather hear fire-breather than quitter rhetoric right now.

If it is just frustration speaking, I understand, but despair is not an option.

And if I ever get to this same point as your post, please someone toss me a life preserver.

[dysfunctional press]

75. how long have you been voting?

my first vote was for jimmy carter- and he was the last halfway-decent democratic president we've had, and american society has been on one long downhill slide ever since.
everyone has a breaking point- and mine has been reached. and breached.

electing democrats anymore is like taking a bandaid off a hairy part of your skin, s-l-o-w-l-y, feeling the pain of each individual hair being pulled out by the root as it sticks to the band-aid...republicans are like pulling that sucker off in one quick jerk- there might be a little more pain- but it's all at once, and it's over with quickly. for instance- look how long healthcare 'reform' is taking the dems, as compared to how quickly the pukes passed the bush tax thefts.

if that analogy doesn't work for you, there's always the one about the frog in the pot of water that's brought slowly to a boil...

it seems very apparent that things are going to have to get a lot worse before americans will wake the fuck up and take back their country- with the dems, that's going to be a slow and painful process to get there- but we WILL get there. the repukes, on the other hand could foster a popular revolt among the downtrodden by bringing on the necessary conditions A LOT faster.

and i really would like to see it happen in my lifetime.

[Mithreal]

80. The first Presidential campaign I volunteered on was for Gary Hart in '88

I am used to disappointment.

Imagine how someone who couldn't vote for Carter because he or she was too young must feel if what you say is true and I will concede it may be.

Your ideas are persuasive, but there is no guarantee that after Americans wake up they will embrace anything progressive or even positive. My choice right now is to pick sides within the Dem party and fight, but I am weary too.

[Iowa]

63. Yep. They have already lost my vote...

Today's Democrat = yesterday's Republican. I have always despised the Republican ideology, and I despise Republicans who pretend to be Democrats even more. I sincerely regret voting for the Republican Trojan Horse that now resides in the WH.

I'll be voting third party for the duration with a very few exceptions (like Tom Harkin). I won't be conned again.

[SoapBox]

20. re: We're gonna get killed...

Ditto!

[harun]

76. Corruption is our true enemy and corruption has won.

[IndianaGreen]

16. Update: Senate Dems may scrap Medicare expansion (AP)

Here comes the spin to get us to accept this crap! Notice the role by Evan Bayh, whose wife Susan sits on the board of WellPoint. Bayh is up for reelection in 2010. I am not voting for him!

"Democrats aren't going to let the American people down. We all stand shoulder-to-shoulder," Majority Leader Harry Reid said after a closed-door meeting called to discuss last-minute trade-offs in health care legislation

Senate Dems may scrap Medicare expansion

Lawmakers say dropping provision appears necessary to pass overhaul bill

Reid did not say flatly that Democrats had decided to drop the proposal for uninsured Americans as young as 55 to purchase coverage under Medicare. But several senators, including Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind., said the move is probably necessary to pass the bill.

And with all Democratic senators invited to meet with Obama at the White House complex on Tuesday, that appeared a prime opportunity for him and them to declare their unity.

"Put me down tonight as encouraged about the direction these talks are going," Lieberman said less than 24 hours after he rattled Democrats with his threat to join Republicans who oppose the bill unless he got his way.

"Our job is to govern," said Sen. Tom Carper, giving voice to a theme that Democrats have struck all year as they pursued their improbable goal of overhauling the nation's health care system.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34415087/ns/politics-health_care_reform/

[Cherchez la Femme]

43. "Put me down tonight as encouraged about the direction these talks are going," Lieberman said

:banghead:


:wtf:



& I didn't think that crappy bill could possibly get any worse. :puke:

[SergeStorms]

46. Oy........

"Put me down tonight as encouraged about the direction these talks are going," Lieberman said. :eyes:

Well, as long as Joe is happy then I guess all is right with the world. :banghead:

I give up. What the hell's the sense of even trying any more. They're going to do whatever corporate America wants. The people mean nothing. And we're supposed to smile and take it, because Joe Lieberman has held us hostage once again. :grr: And our Democratic leadership continues to suck Joe's balls because someday he MIGHT side with them instead of the Republicans.

Can anyone give me one good reason why I shouldn't register as an Independent now? Anyone? I'm totally disgusted with this Party.

[Auggie]

18. Damn. I was really hoping for that.

[SoapBox]

19. WTF?

...these DAMN Democrats! I'm so freak'n pissed off...and that son of a bitch Traitor Lieberman. Jackass! I...AM...PISSED...OFF!

And I tell you I will do everything to vote out those in my area that sold us out. YOU spineless jellyfish will be out of a JOB!

I am ticked off!!!

And Obama??? Where the hell have you been?!
I supported you...I worked like a dog to help out the local campaign...I spent a small fortune copying signs, flyers and materials (of money that I did NOT have because I still don't have a flipp'n job)...and, where have you been? Pretty much not anywhere except on TV talk shows and running around the world. I've supported you...talked you up...etc., etc., etc...and what good are you? Well, you are not Bush and that seems to be about it.

GRRRRRRR!

[Jefferson23]

24. This is absolutely terrible, is this as good as it gets?

I have said before I never believed we would get single payer right now, but this is not a compromise, this is a disgrace.

[defendandprotect]

It's where we are until we get corporate money out of government and elections...!!!

[defendandprotect]

27. It's where we are until we get corporate money out of government and elections...!!!

[Mithreal]

35. If President Obama and Congress made meaningful change

on just that, it would be an awesome legacy.

Wonder why they didn't tackle that first?

It's ok, I know I am in some ways naive and idealistic.

Yeah, I get it that the courts are significantly involved as well.

[defendandprotect]

44. Way back when, Teddy Roosevelt -- 1925? -- was saying that we need to

"bar corporations from any participation whatsoever in our elections" --

Guess it's an idea long time coming!!!

:evilgrin:

[defendandprotect]

26. Democrats should be moving to drop Lieberman . . . !!!

[IndianaGreen]

31. He might become the next Medal of Freedom recipient

like Rumsfeld and Paul Bremer.

[defendandprotect]

45. Amazing what floats to the top -- !!!

:evilgrin:

[SergeStorms]

48. Maybe a Nobel Prize..........

do they have one for obstructionism? :shrug:

[Blasphemer]

29. Where are the Libs and Progressives? They should be balking at this

The whole idea was that the compromise was based on this Medicare expansion. The compromise is apparently dead.

[placton]

58. dont you get it?

there are NO Libs or Progressives - just enablers and sellouts

[defendandprotect]

60. Holidays are keeping people busy --

Haven't been as many here due to that, I think -- ????

[Politicub]

30. Lieberman is pure evil

I don't use the word evil very often, but I can't think of another way to describe Lieberman and his drive to deny a little health care relief to people. He is holding millions hostage because he needs his ego stroked.

Lieberman is immoral, corrupt and yes, evil. I love Gore, but I hate that he chose Lieberman as his running mate. If he had not, then Lieberman wouldn't have any political capital today and maybe we wouldn't all need to bow down to him and his whims.

[on point]

32. No Mandate without public option!

The bill can still be salvaged.

I say keep the reforms, drop the mandate and start over with single payer (and perhaps new congress people!!!)

You cannot do the mandate without giving the consumer a choice.

Otherwise I think we should begin to actively oppose this bill.

[unkachuck]

33. "Democrats move toward dropping medicare expansion"

....I'm getting whiplash from all this back and forth crap....where in the hell is our progressive brethren in the Senate?....why is it only these asshole moderates get to be obstructionists?

....c'mon Liberals and Progressives; lock that fuckin' Senate up, shut that motherfucker down, and don't give in until we get our way!!

[Techn0Girl]

36. I am so disappointed towards Obama for his lack of leadership and support here:

I was so stoked.
America's first Black President.
America's first intelligent and well spoken President in the last 8 years.
A man who spoke of Change - real Change.
A man who spoke of putting people before corporations.
An Education President.
A Jobs President.
A Young President.

It was like Clinton after Bush all over again.

Except it wasn't any of that.
It took less than a year for him to sell us all out to the Banking Industry, The Pharmaceutical Industry, The Insurance Industry, The War Industry.

NO jobs. NO health care. NO credit card regulation. NO bank regulation.
War. War War.

I feel like Lando Calrissian in star wars: "This deal just keeps getting worse!"
Words cannot express the disappointment I feel right now.

[rury]

51. The bill that finally comes gets to Obama's desk

will be a piece of shit...

[Iowa]

64. He is a sell-out, a liar, and a con...

The worst Democratic president in history. I'll be voting third party for the duration (with a few exceptions, like Tom Harkin). I won't be conned again.

[Hardrada]

74. Hear, Hear! Except I dislike Harkin's role in this too.

He and Ruth can go live in the Bahamas or wherever full time.

[Iowa]

79. Yep, you're right. Right after I posted, I read about Harkin's role. Fuck him too.

[keitai]

37. Pathetic.

Why in God's name don't they now just go ahead and let him filibuster? Let that turd own it. Then regardless of the outcome, strip him of his chairmanship as soon as it is all over. I don't see why there is this worry about a GOP filibuster. The Dems need to keep in mind Clinton vetoing the Republicans' draconian spending cuts in 1995. How did they fare in that game of political brinksmanship?
They may as well let him filibuster the bill as the current bill is that bad, it would be bad politics and policy to embrace it.

[NorthCarolina]

38. Wow, there's a surprise

NOT. With a buy-in cost of roughly $600/mo for a person aged 55 (as indicated by Howard Dean) it would have been out of reach of a majority of American citizens anyway.

[and-justice-for-all]

39. If thers is not a PO and no Medicare buy in, then there is no reform..

It is nothing more than a make over for the health care industry and as far as I am concern we do not have a Government for and by the people...absolutely fucking disgusting.

Call it a temper-tamtrum or whatever, but I see no room for negotiation on this issue and by them no allowing for a National Care System just goes to show who's fucking side the suits are on!

[Myrina]

41. Is it time to kill this 'reform' yet?

... anything of any value to real, working people has been gutted.

Light up the phone banks and the fax and email blasts and shut down this insurance industry giveaway.

[mvd]

52. I must admit, I'm very depressed about this

Is there any good that can cheer me up? Maybe conference will restore a public option at least.

[Earth_First]

53. Democrats move to pass 'something' by Christmas

It may not resemble any sort of REAL HCR, but, by gum, they did it by Christmas!

[earcandle]

54. tweedle dee and tweedle dum, saw the American having fun...

took him to the looking glass,
made him look like an angry ass
and forgot to tell him he has no class
and then left the room.  

Hey Joe... where you  going with that   gunnnnnn in your
hanndddd.....  

[earcandle]

55. If this doesn't move us, what will? Absolute devastation and civil war? Ya wanna be insurgent?

[New Dawn]

56. They just want to force us to buy a service from private companies (i.e. fascist economics).

Google "Individual Mandate".

[placton]

57. WAIT!! ALL THE OBAMA SUPPORTERS TOLD US

this would not happen, that the politico story was all lies!! Say it ain't so, O? O is for "sellout"

[ArcticFox]

68. Actually, this is all part of a master plan

They're going to pass every piece of legislation possible to transfer wealth from the poor to the wealthy. The poor will eventually get so sick of this shit that they will rise up and wipe out the rich along with much of our society. There is no other way because the rich already own us. Unfortunately, it takes many more years of suffering before us peasants wiil ever see what it is we need to do.

[maryinthemorn]

61. It is a sad day for all of us.

[MilesColtrane]

62. Fuck that.

Better to kill the bill, and strip Lieberman of all of his committee assignments.

Stupak was a dealbreaker and so is this.

[ArcticFox]

65. Gotta hand it to 'em

They can't get anything right, but those dems move really fast when selling out to the corporations.

[ArcticFox]

66. Did you really think this would be good for the peasants?

I'm happy to hear from any optimists out there.

Anyone want to tell us how Obama's just "playing chess, not checkers?"

Come on, surely the "change" of which he spoke so profusely should be kicking in soon.

[IndianaGreen]

70. Obama is playing multi-dimensional chess, don't ya know?

And we peasants are too stupid to understand his genius!

:sarcasm:

[pundaint]

69. President Obama has provided the leadership to create this health bill.

It is his pig-headed refusal to learn from the experiences gained in every attempted compromise with his political foes. We too must learn from repeated experience: we do not have a very good president for improving the lot of the People of America. We also must have learned that all Senators and Representatives except five, need to be fired.

[maglatinavi]

73. pundaint

Obama has failed us, period. Worse still, he failed Teddy who went out of his way, even in sickness and pain to root for Obama...It is a darned shame what is happening with the health care reform initiative. What has happened to the legislators that would not approve a bill without the public option??? "WE THE PEOPLE" still have the power, let us all bind together and get the ball rolling to the White House and ask Obama to veto the frigging law...Remind him of his "change we can" have, not the same frigging shit that the democratic legislators want to push down our throats. It is time for him to hear from all of us! We must rally together, today, now!!!

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

[NuttyFluffers]

72. My Heroes!

:crazy:
oh how they make me want to work hard for them...
:spank:

[deutsey]

77. Way to keep that powder dry, morons.

:evilfrown:

[Trillo]

78. Are campaign donations tracked in real-time? n/t

[Mithreal]

81. Maybe the corporate ones?