Harassment across Arab world drives women inside

[maryinthemorn]

Source: AP



Harassment across Arab world drives women inside

FILE - In this July 23, 2008 file photo Egyptian boys watch passing girls at the AP – FILE - In this July 23, 2008 file photo Egyptian boys watch passing girls at the Nile bank in Cairo, …

* In Egypt, demand grows for female bodyguards Play Video Video:In Egypt, demand grows for female bodyguards AFP

By SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press Writer Sarah El Deeb, Associated Press Writer – Tue Dec 15, 8:43 am ET

CAIRO – The sexual harassment of women in the streets, schools and work places of the Arab world is driving them to cover up and confine themselves to their homes, said activists at the first-ever regional conference addressing the once taboo topic.

Activists from 17 countries across the region met in Cairo for a two-day conference ending Monday and concluded that harassment was unchecked across the region because laws don't punish it, women don't report it and the authorities ignore it.

The harassment, including groping and verbal abuse, is a daily experience women in the region face and makes them wary of going into public spaces, whether it's the streets or jobs, the participants said. It happens regardless of what women are wearing.

With more and more women in schools, the workplace and politics, roles have changed but often traditional attitudes have not. Experts said in some places, like Egypt, harassment appears sometimes to be out of vengeance, from men blaming women for denied work

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091215/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_arabs_sexual_harassment;_ylt=Akxu_PmllP9_8Ab8S944TI5v24cA;_ylu=X3oDMTNma3F1ZHQwBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkxMjE1L21sX2FyYWJzX3NleHVhbF9oYXJhc3NtZW50BGNjb2RlA21vc3Rwb3B1bGFyBGNwb3MDNQRwb3MDNQRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX

[JonQ]

1. It's far worse here

because . . . um. . . it is.

[Lorien]

16. Not a surprising statement coming from you.

[Dorian Gray]

38. I hope you are joking....

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

49. ...

[maryinthemorn]

2. Harassment across Arab world drives women inside

Source: AP



Harassment across Arab world drives women inside

FILE - In this July 23, 2008 file photo Egyptian boys watch passing girls at the AP – FILE - In this July 23, 2008 file photo Egyptian boys watch passing girls at the Nile bank in Cairo, …

* In Egypt, demand grows for female bodyguards Play Video Video:In Egypt, demand grows for female bodyguards AFP

By SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press Writer Sarah El Deeb, Associated Press Writer – Tue Dec 15, 8:43 am ET

CAIRO – The sexual harassment of women in the streets, schools and work places of the Arab world is driving them to cover up and confine themselves to their homes, said activists at the first-ever regional conference addressing the once taboo topic.

Activists from 17 countries across the region met in Cairo for a two-day conference ending Monday and concluded that harassment was unchecked across the region because laws don't punish it, women don't report it and the authorities ignore it.

The harassment, including groping and verbal abuse, is a daily experience women in the region face and makes them wary of going into public spaces, whether it's the streets or jobs, the participants said. It happens regardless of what women are wearing.

With more and more women in schools, the workplace and politics, roles have changed but often traditional attitudes have not. Experts said in some places, like Egypt, harassment appears sometimes to be out of vengeance, from men blaming women for denied work

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091215/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_arabs_sexual_harassment;_ylt=Akxu_PmllP9_8Ab8S944TI5v24cA;_ylu=X3oDMTNma3F1ZHQwBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkxMjE1L21sX2FyYWJzX3NleHVhbF9oYXJhc3NtZW50BGNjb2RlA21vc3Rwb3B1bGFyBGNwb3MDNQRwb3MDNQRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX

[Jamastiene]

3. "But y'all got your rights."

That is my step father's attitude. He is not the only man in this area of the US I have heard say that. It is a quite common mentality here, actually.

This part of the article reminded me of him:
"With more and more women in schools, the workplace and politics, roles have changed but often traditional attitudes have not. Experts said in some places, like Egypt, harassment appears sometimes to be out of vengeance, from men blaming women for denied work."

They aren't so different from the US in that particular mentality, I see.

[Warpy]

4. Men blame women for not being sexually available at all times

but blame the ones who are as sluts.

Men project their unwillingness to deal with their own sexuality onto women.

Mostly men blame women because they know how much women are needed and it diminishes them and makes them less than the lords of the universe.

Blaming women for having jobs is small potatoes compared to all this stuff.

[superconnected]

5. The nice thing is, the men are losing ground.

I don't know how we can fight for them to lose more ground in the Arab world though. They go medieval and start beating women with sticks in the street, if not stoning them.

[whathehell]

6. Precisely.

A quote from Thomas Paine:

"Pity the tender sex for they have to deal with men, who are at once their judges and their seducers".

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warpy]

9. Yeah, it's a snap to overcome thousands of years of oppression

in one or two generations.

Birth control and abortion are helping a lot. The job aint over yet, pal, and much of it is up to you and your brothers.

We changed. Now it's your turn.

[EFerrari]

10. This calls for the I 95 song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85gO8XLb4ug&feature=related

[Lorien]

15. He's a major league one for sure. nt

[Lorien]

14. Replace the word women with "blacks" or "hispanics"

and see how long you'd last around here.

[saigon68]

42. Apparently he didn't last that long

[JonQ]

22. Yep, all men do that

not some, or you would have specified "some" or "a minority".

All men are evil and abuse women.

[Scout]

23. no, once again you fail....

if "all men" were what was meant "all men" would have been said.

if it's not about you, it's not about you.


men" /= "all men" /= "some men" /= "a majority of men" /= "a minority of men"

words have meanings... duh

[JonQ]

25. Sorry but your reading comprehension is not up to snuff

the comment I was responding to said "men" and then listed all the awful things men do. No qualifiers were used.

Here, let's try a little experiment.

Say "black people" and then list some awful things that individual black folk have done. Don't say "all black people" but also don't say "some, or a few do this". Just "black people do X".

See how long that post would last before being taken down as unfairly labeling an entire group in a negative manner.

Run along now.

[Scout]

27. run along your own self jonny....

black people /= all black people /= some black people

so what you are attempting to convey is that when one means some of the people of group a, one must say "some people of group a" ...

so therefore if one means all people of group a, one must say "all people of group a" ...

so what does one mean if one simply says "people of group a" ... does one mean all? does one mean some? does it mean what the reader wants to think it means? does it mean what the speaker means?

why must the qualifier be used only if one does NOT mean all?

brush up on your own comprehension of language....

[JonQ]

29. so what you are attempting to convey is that when one means some of the people of group a, one must

"some people of group a" ..."

Yes, that would be a good policy.

"why must the qualifier be used only if one does NOT mean all"

Because if you are referencing a group and do not include qualifiers then you are referring to that entire group.

Sorry, it's an english language thing, you may not be a native speaker but that's how it works.

[Ellen Forradalom]

35. I disagree

When women get educations and compete with men for jobs, things get tougher for men. The talent pool gets larger, and the gainfully-employed woman across the breakfast table can tell him to shove it up his ass if he disrespects her. My ex is part of a generation that is royally pissed that they are not living in the Mad Men world of their fathers where even a mediocre schmuck can rise to the top.

[Warpy]

44. They hooted at women back in the 50s, too

so that's not the reason they're all showing off for their mates on the job.

The reasons I cited are the reasons for the harassment we know and loathe.

[Illuminated]

46. Muslim Countries are Hell-Holes for women..

For all the crap that Christians and Christianity get here, Christian countries are infinitely more hospitible to women, ethnic minorites, and other religions than the best Islamic country. For that matter with all the crap that Isreal gets, where would you, as a woman, like to live? Isreal or Iran? Egypt? Oman? Sudan? Indonesia?

Yes, there are men who are pigs here, but real men tend to self-police the ranks. Worst beat down I ever gave was to a scumbag who attempted to rape a friend of mine in high school. Wasnt just me, there were 5 of us, none of which were her boyfriend.

A respect for all and, yes, a chivalrous attitude toward women is not a bad thing. Yes, I will hold the door for you, yes I paid when I was dating, yes I think it is my responsibility to protect any women who is in my company. It is not a matter of being sexist, it is a matter of respect. I know the "womyn" here are going to flame my ass, but go ahead.

[happyslug]

54. The old line on a rapist, he wants an all female Jury if Possible

Women MAY by the line that he could not help himself when it came to the woman he raped, most men will not. Most men have an "instinct" (It may be cultural, it may be how most men are raised, it may be truly instinctive, I do not know thus the parenthesis) to protect women, and if they can not they will punish any man who harms a woman. This has been the case for Millennium.

Now as to the harassment on the street, that is a different story. In rural societies men and women had their places, but these were NOT absolute sex based roles (Men gathered and hunted and women gathered and hunted for example, not men hunted and women gathered in hunting gathering societies for example). When Urban centers developed these were locations where the head of surrounding rural area made his capital. Most were easy for the surrounding rural population to get to (and this was true in herding societies as while as Farming societies). When people were in rural areas the sex roles were know and followed but not strictly. In Urban areas, being the center of POWER, every one was on their best behavior (or worse behavior if you went to the wrong parts of town). In such locations it became more and more important for both sexes to followed what they assumed to be the role they sex was to play.

Thus in urban areas sex roles became more fixed (A similar situation arouse in the old south during Segregation, both races had their "place" in society, but these were NOT rigidly enforced. For example when farm work was being done, the workers tend to sit at one table and eat the same food. The whites on one end, the Blacks on the other. Segregated but both sides getting the same food. This was do to the fact the person who hired the workers needed to make sure they were ALL feed, laws that said the two races had to eat at different tables was ignored. The problem was in URBAN area the laws were rigidly enforced, because it was part of the power structure. Whites and Blacks would travel together into the urban centers, but as soon as they entered the town, they each went to those areas allocated to them. Thus it was the towns and cities where you saw the most segregation of the Races in the old South NOT the rural areas. The same thing happens in the Arab World today, the strictest rules are applied in Urban Areas, while the rural areas follow the same rules, but modify them as needed (which is most of the time).

One of the problem with the Arab World is that it is only since the 1950s that most Arabs live in Urban areas, prior to 1950 most Arabs lived in Rural Areas. Thus only in the last 50 or so years has the "Norm" been for most areas to live in Urban Areas (For comparison the first US Census when more people lived in Urban Areas as opposed to Rural Areas in the US was 1920, thus some time about the time of WWI the population or Urban America exceeded Rural America, Europe did this about 40 years before, if you exclude Russia and Eastern Europe for the definition of Europe).

One of the changes that occurs when a Society stops being predominate rural, is that the Urban Areas are no longer the center of a much larger society, but becomes the main body itself with the Rural Areas becoming boondocks (Important in the sense that is where food comes from, but much less important as to getting elected or staying in power). Thus rural life follow and is lead by urban life instead of urban leading rural life, but rural life being dominate. This change meant the loose rules do to the need of rural society starts to be looked at violation of sex roles NOT needed variations (This can be seen in the US in the 1930s-1950s, as the US became more and more Urban, women lost rights, Women were becoming Doctors, Lawyers and other professionals in the later 1800s early 1900s, but that all closed down starting in the 1920s). Rural Rules permitted such exceptions to Sex roles, exceptions needed and thus done, Urban area rejected the concept that such exceptions are needed.

In the 1970s women revolted against the reduction of their role in US Society, but more do to the need to earn more money for the family given the inflation of the time period and the overall decline in the wages of men (I.e. Men COULD afford to keep an unemployed woman at home in the 1950s, but that was no longer the case in the 1970s). Many men resented the fact that women were brought in TO KEEP THEIR SALARIES DOWN OR EVEN TO WORK AT REDUCE WAGES. By the 1980s this initial resistance was gone (Discrimination still existed but women were accepted into the work force). The reason for this acceptance was that most men's salary HAD not kept up and their wives needed to work to keep up the standard of living their parents had enjoyed on their father's wages alone.

The Arabs appear to be in the situation the US was in in the 1970s, women are entering the work force to help out their family's income, but one of the results of such women in the work force is to keep men's wages down. At that reduction of wages the men will attack who they perceive as the cause, thus the attack on women in the 1970s in the US and today in the Arab world.

This is further fostered by the Government for it provides an outlet to those men whose income has dropped NOT do to women entering the work force, but the Government Policy of keeping wages low (Which has to do with excessive theft of Government Resources by the people in power then anything else). What is needed is a better distribution of Income, but to do so would require the rich giving up some of their wealth. The Rich oppose this and that means the people who rules these dictatorships. Given the dilemma the Government thus encourage attacks on woman for that directs the anger of the population onto a "Safe" enemy (Egypt can not afford to blame the US, Egypt is the second largest recipient of US Foreign aid) nor the Jews (Most Jews left the Arab Countries in the 1940s and 1950s thus any anti-jewish movement quickly becomes an Anti-US Movement and the Arabs do NOT want that). The real enemy is the Government itself, but the Government does NOT want any attacks on itself. The religious right views the Government as the enemy more then women, thus can not be encouraged so that leaves attacks on women and any other minority group the Government can blame the economic decline on (Communists would be a good enemy, but given the fall of the Soviet Union not a viable group to put the blame on).

Blaming women, using the Koran, is a good place to start (Most of these Countries are Sunni Moslem NOT Shiite Muslim meaning that the religious leaders are picked by the Government NOT an independent religious structure). Using Islam the Government does two things, gives an outlet to its own population that divides any opposition (I.e. the Religious Right from the women of the Society) AND provides the a group the Government can blame the attack on women on (i.e. "it is NOT the fault of the Government, but those religious extremist, even through the religious leaders pushing this are all on the Government's payroll).

[pengillian101]

57. I won't flame your ass.

Good on ya for looking out for your gal friends. I cannot say how happy I am to hear of it - keep it up.

:-)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

59. "Christian countries are infinitely more hospitable to women" because they're not really Christian.

They're secular.

When Christianity actually ran things, women's lives were about as miserable as in the Islamic world now.

[bitchkitty]

64. I won't flame you. Chivalry is a good thing. n/t

[Mind_your_head]

60. +10

[No Elephants]

62. Which women are the sluts again?

[harvey007]

8. Sexism lives!

As Yoko Ono once said, "women are the niggers of the world."

Let's see those men in veils and burkas and see how they like it.

Ridiculous!

[proteus_lives]

11. I wonder what blacks who grew up in the Old South or Apartheid SA

Would say about Ms. Ono's statement..,,

[Scout]

13. the women would agree

no matter what race you are, it's "better" to be a man.

fucking duh.

[proteus_lives]

24. I wonder who had it better in Apartheid SA......

A white woman or a black man?

Hmmmmmm. That's a thinker.

[Scout]

26. obviously you don't think much....

a white man has it better than a white woman....

a black man has it better than a black woman...

[proteus_lives]

31. And a white woman has it better then a black man.

My point is that Ms. Ono's statement isn't always true.

[Scout]

32. YOU say a white woman has it better than a black man....

that doesn't mean it's true.

[proteus_lives]

33. Wow really?

Blinders much?

[JonQ]

48. In apartheid south africa

just about everyone had it better than a black anything.

[Sultana]

53. But its true, white women will always be put above black men

White privilege, duh!

I am guessing you are not black.

[Dorian Gray]

39. Well, I don't know about that

I wouldn't want to be a man. I love being a woman. But you did use "quotes" around better, so I'm not completely dense as to your meaning.

[Ellen Forradalom]

37. They'd agree.

If they were halfway honest with themselves.

[Sultana]

45. Ugh, Yoko is so stupid!

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[question everything]

12. There were stories about how young girls cannot attend school

someplace in Africa, I think, because the schools did not provide latrines and if they would try to go to the wood and be caught, they would be severely beaten.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Douglas Carpenter]

20. this news item is about Arab woman meeting and holding a conference in Cairo

- in the heart of the Arab world - to address a problem within the Arab world and to work to empower Arab women within the Arab world.

I think that is something worthy of respect.

[LiberalLoner]

18. I lived in Egypt for a year - was stationed in the MFO in the Sinai.

And I did find that when I went to Cairo on the weekends, if I didn't have a male with me, I literally got groped or had a guy try to grab me. Others tried flirting with me - not in a bad way so much, not anything insulting, just "I love you" stuff and asking if I was married. I mean not as bad as what you get with construction workers here in the states, as far as comments go. But the grabbing me and groping me thing had me very shocked and at the time I thought it was because I was clearly a western woman, not an Egyptian. Interesting (and sad) to learn this is a problem not just for me but for all the women, even the women born in Egypt and wearing a veil and galabaya.
P.S. It didn't particularly phase me, getting grabbed, because I was already dealing with having been raped by a fellow officer while stationed there. Yup, I was one of the one-in-three women raped while in the military. Shrug. Guess that's life when you are a woman.

[Ellen Forradalom]

36. Welcome to DU, LiberalLoner.

Sadly, you are right. It is life when you are a woman.

[Dorian Gray]

40. When I lived in Hong Kong

I would be rubbed against on the subway at times. (That's never happened to me here in NYC, though it has to two female friends.) It happened to me five times in three years in Hong Kong. I found that shocking. Nobody would shout comments at me there, though. (Here not that often, either, though there was construction going on next to my building for a few years and the guys would always say something to me as I walked to the gym. But it was never rude/crude. But they saw me on a daily basis, and it was more friendly bantering than catcalling.)

[JCMach1]

56. It's the outright staring that my wife and daughters can't stand here in UAE

Fortunately, there is very little of what they call "Eve Teasing"...

[No Elephants]

63. I'm so sorry those things happened to you. Welcome to DU.

[cally]

19. I saw this in Morocco this summer

Young women who weren't completely covered were harassed by men. I watched several young women in more western dress harassed terribly while the young women fully covered and with men were not. I thought at the time that it was a way of social control. I did notice that other women would interfere and help the young women. The harassment did not happen all the time or even most the time, but a few times is enough to make young women fearful.

I had my college age daughters with me during the trip. They were harassed horribly. Both chose to stay right beside my husband and I during all times. They didn't even stay so close to us when they were toddlers. The sexual harassment is an effective, devastating way of social control to keep women in their place.

[LiberalLoner]

21. I think you are right. What a sad thing.

[Arugula Latte]

30. I felt a small glimmer of that in Italy in 1985.

I was traveling with three friends from college. The men would surround us en masse at places like the Fountain of Trevi, to the point where we would look around for American guys to hang onto for a sense of protection. It was downright frightening.

I've heard the culture has changed at least somewhat since then ... Don't know if that's so.

[Dorian Gray]

41. I had a girlfriend

who had a similar experience in Morocco. Turkey, as well. I found that in Italy, the men who found out we were Americans were all over us though if we said we were Canadian or British (I faked a bad accent), they left us alone. (I guess American girls have a reputation in Italy.)

[krabigirl]

47. Haha, it happened to me in Japan and I was wearing long-sleeved tshirts.

And nope, I'm not blonde. I was not expecting harrassment in Japan.

[raccoon]

61. A-effing-men!

"The sexual harassment is an effective, devastating way of social control to keep women in their place."

[Lydia Leftcoast]

28. This actually isn't anything new

One of my grad school friends traveled in the Middle East in the early 1970s and was harassed until she started wearing a headscarf and sunglasses.

[yurbud]

34. Showtime's MASTERS OF HORROR did a really creepy episode on an infection that turned

men against women.

They set it up well by explaining how we messed with Bugs' sex drive as a way to kill them, so they wouldn't mate properly.

That made it more plausible that when men became aroused by women, they would want to kill them rather than have sex with them.

It started near the equator then worked it's way toward the poles.

Two scientists were working on it. One was gay so he was immune, but the other was straight and had a wife and child. They gay guy figured out that if male hormones were blocked, the disease couldn't progress, but the straight guy refused the treatment, and ended up killing his own daughter.

Then his wife kills him and the story shifts to her as she tries to stay alive by posing as a man in the far North, and ultimately finds out what started the infection.

It wasn't that violent, but in my top ten scariest movies ever.

It was called ''The Screwfly Solution.''

[pitohui]

50. "the screwfly solution" was a famous story by alice sheldon (james tiptree jr/racoona sheldon)

i did not know it had ever been filmed

in the story gay men were not immune, all males were affected, the trigger was the male sexual response, the urge to mate led to the urge to kill, so the gay men who had sexual feelings killed also (although they obv. killed other males rather than women)

the last line of the story is one of the most chilling lines in short fiction

she was also the author of "houston, houston, do you read?" a famous story in its day abt post-male society

alice sheldon's life story was also v. interesting one, if you ever have time, look it up

[Le Taz Hot]

43. I realized a long time ago

that, where armies have tried and failed throughout the centuries to bring down the Arab world, it will, ultimately, be brought down by the women.

[JCMach1]

55. Quite probably Right: by pissed-off feminist women wearing Niqab

One of the weird dislocations you get here in the Middle-east is finding conservative, wahhabi girls dressed like Britney Spears and budding young feminists dressed in complete cover.

The saying about book, cover, etc. definitely applies here.

[Douglas Carpenter]

58. please note that this news item is about Arab woman meeting and holding a conference in Cairo

in the heart of the Arab world and openly addressing a problem within the Arab world!

This is a good thing.

Arab women today make up around 50% of university students, around 50& of doctors and professors and are rapidly evolving into a major portion - perhaps even the majority of the professional class.

I have a number of friends who teach in colleges and universities in the Middle East. They tell me that the women are the hardest working, the most serious students and are excelling.

I myself have worked with a lot of Arab women. The image that some westerners have of quiet, obedient and submissive - absolutely could not be farther from the reality.

These are all good things.

[BolivarianHero]

65. I feel bad for Muslim women...

Outside of socialist countries, they've been seldom been treated with human dignity.