Slaying Of Drug War Hero's Family Shocks Mexico

[Rage for Order]

Source: Associated Press

Assailants on Tuesday gunned down the mother, aunt and siblings of a marine killed in a raid that took out one of Mexico's most powerful cartel leaders — sending a chilling message to troops battling the drug war: You go after us, we wipe out your families. The brazen pre-dawn slayings came just hours after the navy honored Melquisedet Angulo as a national hero at a memorial service.

Federal officials had warned last week's killing of drug lord Arturo Beltran Leyva, known as the "boss of bosses," could provoke a violent backlash from smugglers, who have gone after federal police in the past following the arrest of high-ranking cartel members.

he country was shocked by the brutal slayings of Angulo's family at their home just hours after the fallen marine's mother, Irma Cordova, 55, attended his memorial service in Mexico City, where she received the Mexican flag covering his coffin.

His brother, Benito Angulo, 28, his sister, Jolidabey Angulo, 22, and aunt, Josefa Angulo, 46, also were killed shortly after midnight when gunmen wielding assault rifles broke down the door of their home. His sister, Miraldeyi Angulo, 24, was reported in serious condition at a hospital.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091223/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_drug_war_mexico

---

I suppose the last thing we should do is enforce our border with Mexico. That would be mean-spirited. I'm sure no drug cartel members are among the people who migrate back and forth across the border at will. It's only people looking for jobs.

[WriteDown]

1. Scary stuff...

You have to really feel for the family. I don't know why we kill these guys. Cut off their thumbs and let them go. Let's send a message back.

[PeaknikB]

2. The Mexican government is going to retreat from the countryside

That place is quickly turning into a narco state. They're going to lose a huge portion of their government revenues, they are expected to no longer be an oil exporting country come 2012.

[Duke Newcombe]

6. Now, let's see...

...which other up and coming narco country that we consider an "ally" is retreating from it's hinterlands, staying in it's capital? Hint: It starts with the initial "A"...

[PeaknikB]

14. It's not a narco state!

They are emulating the dutch and growing flowers! :)

[Rage for Order]

3. Well...

You have to feel for what's left of his family, sadly enough. At some point the average Mexican citizen is going to have to say "enough", and stop enabling - or at least turning a blind eye to - the activities of the drug cartels.

[villager]

4. ending drug war profits here would go a long way toward stopping the enabling

...of such vicious violence

[timo]

32. never happen

the $$$$ keeps it all flowing, if youve never been you wouldnt understand, at all, and I am not talking about the touristy resort areas, thats not at all what I mean.

[virgogal]

5. This is positively frightening. And you're right,no drug cartel members

would even CONSIDER crossing our border.

[saigon68]

119. Only guys coming to Wisconsin to Milk Cows for Millionaire Farmers

Cross the Border Illegally.

"Its a job no White man would take", cited Elected repuke Lap Dogs.

$6.00 an hour cash (No tax with holding, No Social Security witholding, No health insurance, No Work Comp insurance no Vacation pay, No Benefits whatsoever and Millions for the Felony Criminal who owns and runs the farm)

[saigon68]

127. `

[indypaul]

7. Dealing and using are "victimless crimes?"

Think again.

[Flaneur]

15. I'm sorry, you can't blame drug users for this. Prohibition deserves the credit.

You think enforcing drug prohibition is a victimless policy? Think again.

[Psephos]

24. I blame the drug gangsters.

I'm sure they'd have a laugh that the apology corps works so earnestly to shift the blame from their thugs to concepts and policies.

[Flaneur]

28. Yes, drug gangsters are bad people. Prohibition makes them possible.

Apology corps, my ass. These guys are an unintended consequence of our war on the drugs we love to hate (or hate to love). The ones who should be apologizing are the people who sustain drug prohibition despite its failure to prevent drug use and its consequences like this.

[WriteDown]

31. Let's be serious here. Things like heroin and meth are NEVER going to be legal...

and with good reason. MJ is a whole different story. But those that think that legalizing hard drugs is ever going to happen are not facing reality.

[Marthian]

51. When less damaging drugs

are made available, the use of such as meth and smack will decline rapidly. The cost of the drugs is an aspect of their attraction, the cheaper, the more likely to be used long term. Can't cite the Dutch report, as I can no longer find it in my bookmarks, sorry.

[WriteDown]

55. They will?

Doesn't seem likely considering that the effects are totally different.

[rantormusing]

133. DO you still buy moonshine

With legalization there is less interest in ingesting stuff that was mixed in a bathtub.

[superconnected]

74. Yeah, more drugs(dealers) that can become drug corps who kill anyone taking business away from them

is the answer. Are you... 5?

[Incitatus]

90. Yes,because that's what happened after alcohol prohibition

:banghead:

[tkmorris]

97. Umm, that IS what happened after alcohol prohibition

Perhaps I misunderstand you?

[Psephos]

34. The "ones who should be apologizing" are the tools who provide cover to murderers.

In addition to socializing and abstracting the guilt of the worst and most heinous criminals, they also omit to blame unrelenting demand for drugs that handed the cash to these thugs to purchase the bullets they used in their massacre.

[Flaneur]

49. Is your argument so weak you must resort to insults?

Nobody is saying these Mexican narcos are nice guys.

The US officially acknowledged the role of unrelenting demand in Mexico's drug wars this year.

But the fact remains that our prohibitionist policies have generated yet another Frankenstein monster. US demand for drugs would not be causing 15,000 murders in the past three years in Mexico absent the prohibition regime. It perversely rewards the most intelligent, amoral, and ruthless with wealth beyond imagination while failing to stop Americans from using the drugs they want to use--not to mention the other ugly consequences it brings us.

The Mexican narcos are prohibition's gift to all of us.

It's gifting us nicely in Afghanistan, too.

[Psephos]

94. Read my post carefully. I did not direct my comment at you.

I cannot help it if you self-assign it.

People, not concepts, commit murders. Those drawn to the violence, money, and drugs associated with the gangster underworld are not created by "society," and will not be remedied by it either. They are a permanent, if tiny, subclass, persistent across populations and history. There are seminal studies on the responsibility of a small and consistent cohort of young adult males in primate societies for most of the serious violence. This trait, and its rate of prevalence, is wired deep into our genes.

Put simply, some people are born with little conscience and great avarice. They only understand raw power, violence, and corruption, and see most other people as contemptible sheep. The worst of them rise to become the gang lords. If drugs are legalized and dispensed from vending machines, the gangs will continue, in other illicit activities. This is hardly a conjecture.

Those who give them cover are complicit in maximizing the damage such aberrants do, both to our society in large, and more achingly, to the poor innocents who get in their way.

I condemn the actual murderers. They deserve no quarter, no explanations, and no dissipation of our determination to be rid of them.

By the way, I am not in favor of the WoD and as a pragmatist, think the evidence was clear long ago that a different approach is needed.

[Flaneur]

108. I, too, condemn the killers, and I condemn the policy choices that made them possible.

If drugs are legalized and dispensed from vending machines, the cartels will lose their primary source of fuel. They will not, sadly, go away. We can't just snap our fingers and make them disappear, but we can weaken them substantially.

[chrisa]

120. Not entirely true.

Without buyers, narco-gangs wouldn't exist. However, Prohibition emboldens them (cartels) greatly, and gives them power. The USA is a huge drug market, and blood is being spilled for drug routes over the border.

Legalize pot to cut the Hydra's (cartels) heads off. It's kind of ridiculous sending agents to burn fields of weed when cigarettes, and even alcohol are more dangerous. I can't say the same about Heroin, Cocaine, or Crack, so the border needs to have its security upped. However, legalizing weed would be an instant blow against narco-gangs, stripping them of their top product.

[dysfunctional press]

8. you were kidding about that last comment, no...?

"I'm sure no drug cartel members are among the people who migrate back and forth across the border at will. It's only people looking for jobs."

while the higher-ups in the cartel wouldn't be doing it there are mules that do.

a LOT of mexico's problems seem to originate in the u.s.

[dogfacedboy]

92. There you go, blaming America again! (sarcasm)

[cowcommander]

9. Sadly, this happens all the time

There was a massacre a few years back where a family of 9 was killed because the father was an informant. When the government is unwilling to take action, and the drug lords are in full control, the people in the middle get fucked, big time.

[AlphaCentauri]

10. Every American using Marijuana, Cocaine or Heroin have innocents blood in their hands

or nose or veins.

[angstlessk]

12. no, the 'war on drugs' has blood on it's hands..sorry...

if it was as freely traded as tobacco it would NOT CREATE NARCO DEATH!

[AlphaCentauri]

13. They did try to legalize Marijuana around 1936-1940

but was the US who pressured them to back off. Some people have propose to legalize the cargo going to the US as long as it doesn't stay in Mexico.

[mbperrin]

18. Why do you think the drug lords still wouldn't shoot each other up?

That's their mode of business, and profits are high, so they tell me.

[Flaneur]

19. For the same reason the booze and cig lords aren't shooting each other.

[mbperrin]

38. So these guys, the very same guys that own all the means of

production, will become Sunday school teachers after we legalize these substances? Really?

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with bootleggers in the US. They're still shooting cops and agents just to avoid taxes.

[sudopod]

42. but they don't punch nearly the weight the did back during Prohibition.

Their power is directly proportional to their income. People don't risk their lives as soldiers in organized crime families pro bono.

[mbperrin]

46. So you are saying that legalization will make the drug lords poor?

And they'll be okay with that then, even though the current killings are about the glut of drugs on the market and increasing market share?

[sudopod]

47. It won't make them go away

but it will reduce their income and their power.

[pundaint]

50. If MJ were legal nobody would buy that Mexican crap

[chrisa]

121. But nowhere near on the scale they were.

Bootleggers used to own Chicago. Now, it's a bunch of hillbillies.

[CBHagman]

21. Do you really want cocaine and heroin...

...sold the way beer, wine, cigars, and cigarettes are now?

[Flaneur]

30. Do you think that would be worse than the current state of affairs?

Prohibition-related violence in Mexico.

Turf war prohibition-related violence in American cities.

Illegal drug profits funding political violence in Colombia, Peru, Afghanistan.

Hundreds of thousands of American citizens arrested each year who DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO ANYBODY.

The erosion of Fourth Amendment rights.

Piss tests to get hired at Walmart.

...all to stop us from using these drugs, yet still failing to do so.

So, yeah, I say let's do that.

[WriteDown]

33. Uh, yeah, probably as bad...

Hard drugs like crack, meth, heroin that can addict in one dose are never going to be legal. Prescription drugs are "technically" illegal without a precription. Why aren't there prescription drug wars in the US?

[sudopod]

43. Well...

Modern pharmaceuticals require much more chemical and technological expertise to produce compared to, say, a plant that can grow wild in many of the climates of North America.

Even meth is relatively simple to make, and they fuck that up all the time.

[Flaneur]

48. You're repeating myths...nothing "addicts in one dose"

You can try something one time and think it's mighty fine and decide to keep using it, but you are not addicted after one dose.

As for prescription drug wars, to the extent prescription drugs get diverted into black markets, I'm sure some of that happens.

By the way, meth IS a prescription drug. It's Schedule II and marketed as Desoxyn.

[WriteDown]

56. I'm the one with the myths?

Yes, physical dependency can start with one dose. That includes both pharmaceuticals and street drugs.

And we still have huge problems with meth?!?!? How can that be if it's legal?

[Flaneur]

63. You shoot heroin once. Are you addicted? No.

You use meth once. Are you addicted? No.

Just for convenience' sake, here's a Wiki definition of that incredibly elastic concept "addiction": Drug addiction is a state of periodic or chronic intoxication produced by the repeated consumption of a drug (natural or synthetic). Its characteristics include: (i) an overpowering desire or need (compulsion) to continue taking the drug and to obtain it by any means; (ii) a tendency to increase the dose; (iii) a psychic (psychological) and generally a physical dependence on the effects of the drug; and (iv) detrimental effects on the individual and on society.

In terms of the definition itself, you cannot be an addict from using a drug one time: "repeated consumption."

I suppose one could argue that taking heroin once could cause "an overpowering desire or need to continue taking the drug," but no one is physically dependent (addicted) after one dose. It just doesn't work that way.

[WriteDown]

65. You know this how?

In fact, crystal meth is even more addicting than heroin.

Now we're going off a wiki definition? :rofl:

You can be mentally dependent which is what a constant crave is. You're neurochemistry craves for the drugs effects. Very few recreational meth or heroin users. Even fewer of those who can live a productive life.

[Flaneur]

68. If you can come up with a less laughable definition of addiction, please do so.

The Wiki version is pretty standard, although again, I caution that when examined closely, the notion of "addiction" becomes incredibly fuzzy.

What is your basis for saying meth is more addictive than heroin? Could be true, but how do you measure that? And why is that worth mentioning anyway? And what does that tell you about the rationality of our drug control system, where methamphetamine is a Schedule II drug because it supposedly has a lower abuse and addictiveness potential than heroin, a Schedule I drug?

Cravings develop over time, as does physical dependency. You don't get addicted with one dose. That's a myth. How do I know this? Well, study, personal experience, and observation. Are you really trying to tell me that if you did heroin once you would become an addict? Didn't work that way for me.

Also, there are lots of recreational hard drug users who are not addicts. You don't hear much about them because they are not out doing sensational things. I've known many weekend smack smokers and meth users who just put away the drugs and go back to work on Monday.

[duhneece]

129. Cigarettes are extremely addicting

Should we make cigarettes illegal? Of course not. Once our public health became more influential than the tobacco industry, we began public education, research into what works to help smokers quit...we should do the same for heroin, cocaine, and meth. Isn't Ritalin another form of pharmaceutical grade amphetamine?

[duhneece]

128. Espanola NEW Mexico has multi-generation heroin users

It's an unfortunate truth that we have a community of heroin users who work, feed their families and use heroin in Espanola, NEW Mexico. Heroin is not much different than any other pain medicine, except it's illegal and therefore of uncertain quality, resulting in more overdoses.

I teach smoking cessation and I can only imagine how much more difficult quitting would be if we arrested a smoker every time they slipped.

Of course we need to end the War on Drugs. Prohibition of alcohol didn't work in the 1920's and 1930's; prohibition of other substances is only creating more violence and locking people in cages like dangerous animals for what they put in their bodies is not the solution. While the US has 5% of the world's population, we have 25% of the world's prison population, largely because we lock up non-violent drug offenders. Drugs are more accessible than ever.

Tax & regulate. Offer treatment.

[Hannah Bell]

134. illegal heroin addicts in one dose but legal morphine doesn't? right.

[truthisfreedom]

20. That's ridiculous. Marijuana is grown all over the US.

Nobody has to buy it from Mexican sources.

[AlphaCentauri]

22. Myths no more: 3 Tons Of Marijuana Stopped At Calexico Border

http://kxoradio.com/content/view/6408/1/

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/319670.php

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/national/southwest/view/20091217us_border_patrol_seizes_660_pounds_marijuana/srvc=home&position=recent

Lil Wayne, Entourage Detained By Texas Border Patrol — Weed Found
http://www.ballerstatus.com/2009/12/19/lil-wayne-entourage-detained-by-texas-border-patrol-weed-found/

http://www.kpho.com/news/22034404/detail.html

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AlphaCentauri]

45. you miss the sarcasm tag right?

who is growing coca or opium in their closet?

[sudopod]

41. Hi Nancy!

How's your horoscope been lately?

[AlphaCentauri]

44. Hi Ronnie, how is the drug trade lately, did you get enough money for the Contras?

[Marthian]

52. Luckily,

your argument is nonsense. Unless you believe that the use of oil and oil-based products makes you guilty of the murders in Nigeria and the oppression in the Middle East, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and Yemen. Strawman argument, ergo invalid. I grow my own weed, have for years and never had anyone murdered as a result. As for hard drugs, prohibition fuels the violence and the wealth...go figure out why you want to blame the users who have never committed a violent crime in their lives. Plus, to be logical, we ALL have blood in our noses, veins and even IN our hands.

[AlphaCentauri]

59. if you grow your own at home you are not contributing your dollars to the massacre

supporting murderous governments to get cheap it's immoral

[Le Taz Hot]

53. Don't be stupid.

No one who smokes pot buys Mexican ditch weed. You can't smoke that shit. I'm in California and we grow our own and have been since I can remember. What an idiot.

[AlphaCentauri]

60. Thats ridiculous home grown weed lacks quality assurance

better start smoking banana skins, ask the other millions of users who don't grow it at home

[Flaneur]

113. Dude! Are you ON drugs right now?

Because you're posting some silly, semi-incoherent shit.

[chrisa]

122. Quality assurance?

You mean like weed from Mexican cartels that probably throw a bunch of adulterants in there, wipe it in rat crap, and do god knows what to it. At home, you know what you're growing. You know that your weed hasn't been tampered with.

If anything, allow companies to sell weed, which is exactly what would happen, where it would be regulated by the government (just like cigarettes, alcohol). That would bankrupt weed-selling cartels and drug lords.

[Romulox]

57. You're an authoritarian too? What a surprise. nt

[AlphaCentauri]

61. ha, expand your comment to - do you care about human life?

[Romulox]

62. Right. Absurd false dichotomies used to define an absurd, authoritarian mindset...

Like I said, I'm not surprised to find you espousing these sorts of hard-lined positions.

[AlphaCentauri]

66. I'm always fascinated how a small percentage of progressives define their moral values

I can see that there is a minority who doesn't care about other humans only their habits and them selves.

People who wants to legalize drugs without a program to recover from addiction, without programs to prevent more addictions in the youth population are just selfish, those people only want to legalize drugs so they can open a new corporation and sell drugs to anyone.

Also sometimes I have to adopt hard-lined positions like been PRO Universal free health care, free higher education, real state prices control, election reform, fair tax laws, end to the unnecessary wars, women rights, gays right, human rights, ... etc. if I'm a hardliner for those positions I'm a hard liner and authoritarian then.

[Flaneur]

71. Nice straw man.

I don't know any thoughtful people who advocate drug legalization who do not also advocate for treatment and prevention. And no, most legalization advocates I'm aware of are not in it for the money, but because they believe prohibition is a failed and harmful policy.

[AlphaCentauri]

79. thoughtful people who advocate drug legalization are the minority

heroin and cocaine user don't care about their families, their addiction prevent them from seeking help but of course they want the stuff to be legal.

[Romulox]

83. More baseless tripe.

"heroin and cocaine user don't care about their families"

What a foolish assertion. You've embarrassed yourself on this thread.

[AlphaCentauri]

87. really?

OK

[Flaneur]

106. Do you really think people posting here about legalization are cokeheads and junkies?

Most of them are too busy getting high to worry about public policy issues.

[duhneece]

130. Not true

I work with many addicts, recovering and still using, who care deeply about their families, just as many smokers care about their families but have been unable to quit the very addicting nicotine.

Diabetics have difficulty sticking to their prescribed regimens at about the same rate addicts do in quitting. It takes many efforts to learn which tools they need.

[duhneece]

132. Relapse Rates Are Similar for Addiction and Other Chronic Illnesses

Relapse Rates Are Similar for Addiction and Other Chronic Illnesses

Dr. Nora Volkow, Director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, said it best, "How can we comprehend the concept of a person who wants to stop doing something and cannot, despite catastrophic consequences? That is what we are up against."

http://www.nida.nih.gov/about/welcome/aboutdrugabuse/chronicdisease/

If you know anyone struggling to quit smoking, quit overeating, follow the prescribed lifestyle changes because of a diagnosis of diabetes or cardiac problems, then you are beginning to understand the nature of addiction. Incarceration is not the answer.

[Romulox]

76. If you support a Drug Warrior police state you are not a progressive, period.

The War on (people who use) Drugs is a racist sham.

All your yada yada yada is defensive posturing designed to distract from this well established fact.

[AlphaCentauri]

80. What facts?

Letting minorities abuse drugs is racist, keeping them comfortably numb is the goal of the racist.

Research has now established that marijuana is addictive. Each year, more teens enter treatment with a primary diagnosis of marijuana dependence than for all other illicit drugs combined. Over sixty percent of teens admitted to drug treatment cite marijuana as their primary substance of abuse.
http://www.justthinktwice.com/factfiction/MarijuanaisHarmless.cfm

Cannabis / Marijuana (and other street drugs) Have Been Linked to Significant Increases in a Person's Risk for Schizophrenia
http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/cannabis.marijuana.schizophrenia.html

WHAT ARE THE MEDICAL DANGERS OF MARIJUANA USE?
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html

[Romulox]

84. "Letting minorities abuse drugs"? So you're RACIST now, too??

People of color use drugs because they enjoy them, not because white people "let them". Just like white people do. And Chinese. And Persians. And Native Peoples. And virtually every human culture back to the dawn of pre-hisotry.

Ignorant. Wrong. Embarrassing. :hi:

[AlphaCentauri]

86. LOL now it is personal

:wtf:

tell me a tale of a successful drug addict, that is a doctor or science?

I can tell you many stories about people that are victims of drugs and their families.

[Romulox]

89. Nice try to change the subject from that "White Man's Burden" crap you were just spouting

And, off the top of my head, Sigmund Freud was a noted user of cocaine. So ignorant and wrong. And unable to work Google. It just keeps getting better. :rofl:

[Flaneur]

116. Um, Carl Sagan? I'm sure you'd consider him an "addict."

Because he enjoyed smoking pot.

[Flaneur]

114. Uh, most drug users in the US are white people.

But don't let me stop you from getting back to the plantation to oversee your darkies.

[Ignis]

75. I see Santa brought you a sack full o' fallacies for the holidays.

:eyes:

[AlphaCentauri]

78. Not Again!!, should I apologize for not smoking pot?

[Ignis]

95. Do you care about human suffering?

Because the horrible, "anti-life" :eyes: drug that you're lambasting (pot) sure helped one of my dying friends eat a little bit of food and last longer than he was "scheduled" to live.

So yes, you're unlikely to find a receptive audience for your false dichotomy...presuming, of course, that you understand that fallacy.

[AlphaCentauri]

98. a full family gets wipe out of the face of earth to help your friend live longer?

using medical applications of marijuana to justify the addiction of millions of americans is just plain ingenious.

[Ignis]

99. There you go again with the fallacies and leaps of logic.

Please point out where I said that the weed for my dying friend was grown by, trafficked through, or purchased from anyone south of the border.

I'll wait.

[AlphaCentauri]

101. Tell me what is the topic of the OP?

is it about medical marijuana?

[Ignis]

103. Nope, and yet you've included MM in your broad-brush attack.

If you don't recall what you've posted, I suggest scrolling upthread.

[AlphaCentauri]

104. Did I say every american taking medical marijuana?

nothing will make recreational users happy

[Ignis]

105. Why yes, yes you did. See post # 10.

You know, the one titled, "Every American using Marijuana, Cocaine or Heroin have innocents blood in their hands"--yeah, that one.

[Flaneur]

107. No, it's the goddamned prohibition regime you are shilling for that is the cause.

A family get wiped off the face of the earth in the name of holy drug prohibition. Drug prohibition created the Frankenstein monster that is the Mexican drug cartels. Is that what you support? Is that how you justify all the prohibition-related violence?

And who is "justifying the addiction" of anybody? Tell me how you are going to end drug use. I'd really like to hear that. Maybe have a beer or two while you're thinking about it.

[krabigirl]

112. exactly.....i can't stand self-righteous idiots

[dixiegrrrrl]

64. You are asuming ALL marijuana comes from outside the US?

There are uncountable numbers of small scale domestic pot growers in the USA who are not
violent, nor are there customers connected with gangs.
Cocaine, heroin, that comes from outside the US, as far as I know.

[AlphaCentauri]

67. I have no problem with people growing their stuff at home

as long as they don't expose their children to the stimulants.

[Romulox]

77. "Stimulants"? Add pharmacology to the things you know little to nothing about.

BTW, it's legal to provide children with medical marijuana here in Michigan. :hi: :rofl:



http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28pthuzt55gyu2g5zi3aq0zi55%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-Initiated-Law-1-of-2008

[AlphaCentauri]

81. not to healthy children

[Romulox]

85. What a -stunning- insight re: medical marijuana.

I feel like I'm witnessing an unmasking tonight. :wow:

[AlphaCentauri]

88. Bring in the cheerleaders

[Romulox]

91. Give me an A-P-O-L-O-G-I-S-T FOR THE S-T-A-T-U-S Q-U-O

What's it spell?

:hi:

[Ignis]

100. That made me *facepalm* so hard it's going to leave a mark.

In other news, don't take crank, kids: That shit just puts you right to sleep!

:dunce:

[krabigirl]

111. Um, marijuana is not a stimulant..and why would they smoke it around their kids?

shouldn't you be on the focus on the family website?

[fascisthunter]

69. lol

sure sure....

[AlphaCentauri]

82. is this the democratic Pot party?

:rofl:

[krabigirl]

110. Is it the Democratic self-righteous party?

Laugh at yourself..

[duhneece]

131. This DUer joins with clergy and retired law enforcement

Not bad company for me to be keeping and DEFINITELY not a bunch of mere 'potheads'. Here you'll find Rabbis, ministers, judges, Federal agents, police chiefs:
Mission Statement of The Interfaith Drug Policy Initiative was established in November 2003. The following is our mission statement, as it appears in our Articles of Incorporation:

The purpose for which this non-profit corporation is formed is to organize people of faith to promote drug policy reform; i.e., moving from prohibition laws toward reasonable and compassionate drug regulation, education and treatment.

You really should watch their video:
http://idpi.us/compassion/resources/clergy-dvd

AND
http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php?name=Content&pid=5

LEAP's Mission Statement


Founded on March 16, 2002, LEAP is made up of current and former members of law enforcement who believe the existing drug policies have failed in their intended goals of addressing the problems of crime, drug abuse, addiction, juvenile drug use, stopping the flow of illegal drugs into this country and the internal sale and use of illegal drugs. By fighting a war on drugs the government has increased the problems of society and made them far worse. A system of regulation rather than prohibition is a less harmful, more ethical and a more effective public policy.

The mission of LEAP is to reduce the multitude of unintended harmful consequences resulting from fighting the war on drugs and to lessen the incidence of death, disease, crime, and addiction by ultimately ending drug prohibition.

[krabigirl]

109. um, no. If you are a med marijuana patient in California, you aren't.

[autorank]

11. If you look at it that way...

...they could shun us at the border too based on the invasion of Iraq. Pretty dangerous and deadly stuff, 1,000,000 murdered Iraqi civilians due to civil strive.

This is a chilling story. Finally, the got a big one. The Calderon government has been having these shootouts with their soldiers versus the narco gunmen in public for some time. All the while, the top dogs have been immune. The focus on a top dog is encouraging.

[Grassy Knoll]

16. They KILLED your boss of bosses.......

But you didn't get a boss, what a bunch of cowards, go for the big fight , fucko's !

[Flaneur]

17. Revenge for this? "Staged photos of slain drug lord stir controversy"

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-fg-mexico-druglord22-2009dec22,0,5243016.story

Images of Arturo Beltran Leyva's corpse covered with blood-stained peso notes and jewelry raise concerns that law enforcement is adopting the tactics of hit men. An inquiry is underway.

A wall in the Cuernavaca high-rise shows bullet holes from the naval commando raid that killed Mexican cartel chief Arturo Beltran Leyva. (Antonio Sierra / Associated Press / December 17, 2009)


By Ken Ellingwood

December 22, 2009
E-mail Print Share Text Size

Reporting from Mexico City - The dead drug lord lay on his back, blood-soaked jeans yanked down to the knees. Mexican peso notes carpeted his bullet-torn body, and U.S. $100 bills formed neat rows next to his bared belly.

The gory photograph of Arturo Beltran Leyva, one of Mexico's most wanted kingpins, was among those widely published here during the last few days following his death in a shootout Wednesday with Mexican marines in Cuernavaca, capital of the central state of Morelos.

Even in a country where pictures of gruesome crime scenes routinely show up on the front pages of newspapers, the Beltran Leyva images have stirred controversy over who staged the tableau and whether Mexican authorities did so to send a taunting message to the rest of his powerful drug trafficking gang.

Several commentators said the photos, some of which showed religious jewelry laid across Beltran Leyva's stomach, were evidence that the government had adopted the macabre public-relations methods used by hit men. Gang members often line their victims' bodies along the roadside or hang them from bridges, leaving menacing, handwritten messages to scare foes.

[AlphaCentauri]

23. Soon there'll be Corridos about the gangster n/t

[Flaneur]

29. Probably bought and paid for by his crew.

[Psephos]

25. Bring the fire to their house again. Go big - real big - or go home. n/t

[Flaneur]

115. Yeah, let's have more more more drug war in Mexico!

It's been 16,000 deaths in the three years since Calderon called out the army. Why aren't you advocating for similar policies here?

[Psephos]

117. I'm talking directly about the gang who murdered the innocents, not the abstract WoD

They did it for revenge and intimidation. If there is no further response directed specifically back at them, they will conclude it worked.

I don't think you get how the gangster mind works.

[Flaneur]

124. Do you think this just happened out of the blue?

Calderon has sicced the military on the cartels for the last three years, and you're seeing the results. Sixteen thousand people dead, the cartels emboldened, and no impact on the flow of drugs north or cash and guns south. Yeah, let's have some more of that.

[frog92969]

26. Think global, smoke local

Legalize!

[hmorehead]

35. Want to stop the drug war? Take high paying jobs away from criminals by

LEGALIZING IT.

[sudopod]

36. Way to co-opt a sad situation to spread your ideology.

Why are you even here, jackass? You don't really think that multi-billion dollar drug cartels are going to be stopped by a fence and a few thousand soldier-wannabe border guards, do you? Hah.

It'd be hilarious if you seriously thought that.

[Rage for Order]

39. A "sad situation"?

Is that what you call the drug violence in Mexico?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iHKVuHQrQjxLUS7KX1ebbuFxWR1Q

CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico — Drug-related violence has claimed the lives of at least 23 people in the northern Mexican state of Chihuahua, authorities said.

Of the 23 deaths, 13 were in the city of Ciudad Juarez alone -- not far from the US city of El Paso, Texas. Ciudad Juarez is Mexico's bloodiest city with more than 2,500 murders this year alone.

In one of the cases from Sunday to Monday, a couple was gunned down in front of their children, aged 3, 5 and nine, who were not injured, police said.

Bloody violence between drug gangs, particularly struggles over lucrative drug-smuggling routes into the United States has left the region along Mexico's border with the United States one of the most dangerous in the world.

More than 14,000 people in Mexico are believed to have been killed in violence related to the drug cartels in the past three years alone.


Nearly 5,000 people per year are being killed in Mexico by violence linked to the drug cartels - that's nearly 14 people every day. That's a bit more than a "sad situation". To think that there is no chance of the drug violence spilling over the border into the US is quite naive. There are numerous reasons why it is good policy to know who is coming and going at the nation's borders, and your charge of me "co-opting a sad situation to spread my ideology" is nothing more than a head-in-the-sand mentality based on the belief that there can't possibly be a problem.

[sudopod]

40. Clearly people who murder innocents by the two dozen

will be intimidated by Buford T. Justice and the American Fence Co.

I mean, why try to address the underlying sickness of a Mexican society wracked by incredible wealth inequality and corruption--fueled in no small part by the American free marketeers and the American black market for illegal drugs--when we can OMG SEAL THE BORDER!!!!111

At least it'll help keep all those poor people out. Otherwise, not our problem, right?

[UNIFIKATION]

37. "Crisis, Populist Neoliberalism and the Limits to Democracy in Mexico"

For more information about this topic look at this article by Hepzibah Muñoz-Martínez.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16563

[Le Taz Hot]

54. Enjoy your stay.

[Romulox]

58. Do you have a problem with the link he posted?

Is it possible that you misunderstand the title?

"The neoliberal policies that squeeze wages and working conditions downward while promoting private investment help explain Mexico's combination of incredible wealth on the one hand and sharply rising poverty on the other."

:shrug:

[fascisthunter]

70. YES! Build a towering wall around us immediately

I'm scared. :hide:

more anti-immigrant garbage

[proud2BlibKansan]

72. Unrec due to your last comment

which has absolutely nothing to do with this tragedy.

[superconnected]

73. Isn't it cool to let drug dealers get out of control in countries? The US citizens should take a

long look at this and then look at what our own country has done to help South Americas drug lords. They ruin Countries.

These drug gangs should have been stopped decades ago in Mexico, and in the world. Look what it escalates too. The government has admitted it can't control it now and is retreating. Great.

[dogfacedboy]

93. Our military can chase a handful of crazed chimps around Afghanistan, but

we can't bring an end to the violence on Our border with Mexico. Sad.

[saigon68]

126. No simians in Afghan-Nam

Those guys are (insert racial epithet here)heads.


Those guys are (insert racial epithet here)jockeys.

crazed chimps LOL

I thought this creep was the only crazed chimp

[brentspeak]

96. If the drug trade were legalized in Mexico, would the violence disappear?

What's stopping Mexico from legalizing the drug trade there?

[AlphaCentauri]

102. The U.S. see #13

[EFerrari]

118. If you are serious about curtailing the drug trade, you need to go after CIA

not the workers going back and forth as they have for hundreds of years.

[chrisa]

123. Explain.

The CIA has corrupt elements, but where is the proof that the drug trade as a whole involves the CIA?

[EFerrari]

125. You might go to Wiki and read up on Iran Contra.

That hasn't stopped. The perps mostly got off without consequence. They were all over the Bush administration and many of them are still active as Negroponte is, for example, "advising" Hillary Clinton.

/sorry, bad typing