Reps. Woolsey And Lee: Final Bill Must Have A Public Option; Rep. Louise Slaughter: Kill the Bill

[t0dd]

Source: TPM

In a statement released today, Democratic Reps. Lynn Woolsey and Barbara Lee demanded that the final health care bill must emerge from conference committee with several "key provisions" from the House bill, including the public option.

WASHINGTON - December 23 - Progressive leaders Reps. Lynn Woolsey (D-Calif.) and Barbara Lee (D-Calif.) released the following statement today about Thursday's vote in the Senate on health care reform legislation:

"Now that the Senate is poised to pass its version of a health care reform bill, it is time to turn to reconciling it with the House legislation.

"For Congress to achieve true health care reform we must have a meaningful conference process that integrates both bills into the best possible piece of legislation for the American people.

"Several key provisions of the House bill must be included in any final bill:

"A public option-If the bill requires people to buy health insurance, there must be a public option to bring down costs by providing lower-cost competition to private insurers and choice to consumers.

http://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2009/12/23-2

...


In addition, Rep. Louise Slaughter (D-NY), chairman of the powerful Rules Committee, wrote in a CNN op-ed today that the health care bill should be scrapped entirely. "The Senate health care bill is not worthy of the historic vote that the House took a month ago," Slaughter wrote.

"Supporters of the weak Senate bill say "just pass it -- any bill is better than no bill. I strongly disagree," she wrote. "It's time that we draw the line on this weak bill and ask the Senate to go back to the drawing board. The American people deserve at least that."

Read more: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/house-rules-committee-chair-kill-the-bill-and-start-over.php

---

That's three. Hopefully more House members join together and kill this disgraceful bill.

[DURHAM D]

1. Why is it that for the most part its the girls who have the balls? nt

[fascisthunter]

3. lol...

[femrap]

5. Women have ova!!!

Big Ova!

[Jamastiene]

110. And we KNOW how to use 'em.

:fistbump:

[elleng]

13. I've noticed over time that its the black women who have the biggest!

Considering history, I guess its no surprise.
If I could, I'd join them.

[Le Taz Hot]

59. Wow

Way to divide. The patriarchy thanks you. :thumbsdown:

[No Elephants]

106. That would have been a great response to Reply #1.

[Le Taz Hot]

108. It was placed appropriately.

The womens movement has never fallen for the "divide-and-conquer" tactic and we've no business starting it now. Historically, the worldwide struggle for equal rights has nothing to do with race and everything to do with gender and overcoming patriarchal rule.

[elleng]

122. You're so kind

NOT.

:thumbsdown:

[Odin2005]

15. Because their ovaries are balls too!

:)

[shadowknows69]

19. Right? Ovary power represent!!!

[scubadude]

37. They carry them in their purses....

to keep their husbands under control...

Scuba

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

70. hee hee

very good.

[No Elephants]

107. Got issues?

[scubadude]

129. Not really, unless you consider the willingness to apply meaningless

old jokes to get a laugh issues....

Scuba

[pundaint]

84. Damn, I was thinking the same thing as I scrolled down to see it as the first post.

[Garam_Masala]

90. Golda Meir, Indira Gandhi, Margaret Thatcher....toughest 3 heads of state

the world has seen in democratically elected governments.
We need a tough lady president in US.

[marmar]

99. No thanks on Margaret Thatcher

[eridani]

91. Does having the gonads inside help in some way? n/t

[Lorien]

98. It's always been that way:

I suspect that's why they constantly push to keep us down.

[No Elephants]

105. Why is it that some people describe strength and courage in terms of balls, and describe weakness

and cowardice in terms of pussy? And isn't about time they stopped? It's almost 2010, for God's sake.

[customerserviceguy]

119. Thanks

That needed to be said.

I prefer the term "guts", it's not sexist.

[Jamastiene]

109. Girl POWER

:)

[Wardoc]

127. Our women have put our men to shame on this one for sure (nt)

[rockymountaindem]

2. I don't see how this can possibly work, with one exception

Every inch this bill moves to the left in reconciliation is going to cost us either Nelson or Lieberman in the Senate (those hacks). If it doesn't improve, maybe some left Dems. in the House will vote no. The only way this could possibly be resolved is if enough liberal House Dems. swallow the bitter pill, which I think is the most likely option at this point. We've already seen how Lieberman and Nelson stick to their guns while the liberals cave all over the place.

"The worst are filled with passionate intensity while the best lack all conviction."

[Donnachaidh]

Nelson's already crapping his pants about the spotlight on his *deal*

He'd be one DUMB sumbitch if he doesn't work with the Dems on a reconciled bill everyone can live with. He can be left swinging about the dealmaking if he doesn't toe the line.

And he deserves to be left swinging, too.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

66. he can pay our health bills with his own money

what's his address?

[The Stranger]

7. After reconciliation, the Republican Media assault will have subsided, and it will pass quietly.

[Devil_Fish]

48. it was my understanding that once it goes through reconciliation only a simple majority is needed

for it to pass. If true Lieberman and Nelson can go fuck themselves.

[rateyes]

55. Yes, they can filibuster it. nt

[RoccoR5955]

58. I'd like to see those bass turds actually go and filibuster.

Actually get on the floor, and recite the phone book!
I don't they could do it.

[cascadiance]

121. Rethugs threatened going nuclear on critical judge appts. It's time we do the same!

This IS the critical bill for the next two years. We can't let one or two corporate serving senators to screw us on it with the lame filibuster rules now. Tell them to either step in line and be part of history that produces a MEANINGFUL bill, or if they choose to block it, we'll eliminate their ability to block things that the people want.

[tridim]

4. Apparently Woolsey And Lee haven't read the bill yet..

Thankfully the Republicans haven't either.. This is better than any PO that has been on the table.

This HCR Bill: 45,000,000 Get CHC-Single-Payer Vermont Health Care
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/12/22/818060/-This-HCR-Bill:-45,000,000-Get-Single-Payer-Vermont-Health-Care

45,000,000 get CHC-single-payer care =vs.= 3,000,000 P.O. tickets ??? -- Cummon folks.

THIS IS IMPORTANT.

Ted Kennedy's existing CHC program expands along lines developed by Bernie Sanders and Ben Cardin.

The single best thing to happen for America's working poor since food stamps:

-- 14,000 nationwide Community Health Clinics

-- Expand CHC capabilities to match VHA technology

-- 45,000,000 people served

-- $$$$$ to attract 20,000 primary care physicians, nurses, etc.

-- Drugs at VHA prices

-- Dental care

-- Patient billing scaled to income

-- No profit motive.

-- 40% saving for chronic care.

-- 1/5th the cost of Emergency Room treatment.

-- Care separated completely from money.

Alan Frumin, the Senate Parliamentarian, showed last April that non-budgetary insurance sections would not qualify for reconciliation. Filibusters would doom any Senate P.O.

Harry Reid concealed Sanders-Cardin till the last hour, then popped it into the Senate HCR Managers Amendment.

-snip-

The Sanders press release hits the main points:

-- A $10 billion investment in community health centers, expected to go to $14 billion when Congress completes work on health care reform legislation, was included in a final series of changes to the Senate bill unveiled today.

-- The provision... would provide primary care for 25 million more Americans.... (with language broadening coverage in response to rural needs where the clinics can be the sole local health resource for communities.)

-- (This) will help bring about a revolution in primary health care in America and create new or expanded health centers in an additional 10,000 communities.

-- The provision would also provide loan repayments and scholarships through the National Health Service Corps to create an additional 20,000 primary care doctors, dentists, nurse practitioners, physician assistants and mental health professionals.

-- Very importantly, Sanders also said the provision would save Medicaid tens of billions of dollars by keeping patients out of emergency rooms and hospitals by providing primary care when then needed it.

-- The investment would more than pay for itself by saving Medicaid $23 billion over five years on reduced emergency room use and hospital costs, according to a study conducted by George Washington University.

-- Sanders is also working with Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) to improve language already in the bill to provide waivers for states that want to provide comprehensive, affordable health care and curb rapidly-rising costs for money-making private health insurance companies. The waivers could clear the way for a state-run, s1ngle-payer system.

-- Sanders has worked with House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.) to include $14 billion in the House version of the legislation. (Which had already been done.)

The system of Federally Qualified Health Centers began four decades ago under pioneering legislation by the late Sen. Edward M. Kennedy. Community health centers now provide primary health care, dental care, mental health counseling and low-cost prescription drugs for about 20 million Americans. Open to everyone, the centers care for patients covered by Medicaid, Medicare and private insurance as well as those who have no insurance.

In Vermont, eight (FQHC) health centers and 40 satellite offices provide primary health care to more than 100,000 patients regardless of their ability to pay. Sanders said that with the additional health care funding it was very likely that new centers would be established in Addison County, Bennington County and perhaps Windham County VT.

[golddigger]

6. Lol, what took you so long!

[Donnachaidh]

8. there are two refrains doing the rounds

"she hasn't read the bill" and "she wants her own deal" Who wants to lay odds on which one is spewed the most over the next say, eight hours?

[tridim]

10. I was eating lunch.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

12. You dont give up do you

How many times are you going to paste this into your post today?

[valerief]

34. Surgery/post-surgical coverage? nt

[JDPriestly]

63. There are a couple of other promising things in the Senate bill.

Problem for the California progressive delegation is that California is just a governor's race away from single payer or a very strong public option.

We have tried most of the good things in the proposed congressional reform bill already and did not get much cooperation from the insurance companies.

That is why, in spite of a couple of promising provisions, I don't think that the Senate bill will work for ordinary Americans. The subsidies will be too little and too hard to pay for.

There is really no effective mechanism for lowering healthcare costs in the Senate bill. Without that, the bill if enacted will not achieve the goal of universal affordable healthcare.

[eridani]

92. No, it is not. It's good, and it can be passed without FORCING us all to buy

--shitty mandatory underinsurance.

[No Elephants]

113. LOL. Selective much?

[RDANGELO]

9. Playing the aim high game?

It's doubtful that they could ever get the public option, but they might end up with more restrictions on the insurance companies, such as a limit on profits and executive salaries instead of a floor on health expenditures.

[Abq_Sarah]

14. Somehow, I doubt it

This is a giveaway for the insurance industry and they're not going to kill the goose that gives them so many golden eggs in the form of donations.

[ClarkUSA]

11. Pure grandstanding. She'll cave after cutting her own deal a la Sen. Nelson.

Just watch and wait.

[terrell9584]

18. I wouldn't count on it

I support health care and all but honestly, it is bullshit the way in which they did this. During Christmas when people are preoccupied and not watching and to have the final vote on Christmas Eve? I'd expect that kind of shit from Tom Delay. Democrats are supposed to be better than Tom Delay.

And the thing is, the majority of Americans are not aware that this is a mandatory insurance bill. The minute you start seeing that point driven home is when it will become ugly. I personally will say this. I have no intentions of complying with the mandatory insurance section. I can't afford to and even if I could, 535 people do not have the right to earmark a part of the paycheck that I earn to be spent towards a specific service. That's just bullshit.


And if they can mandate we buy insurance, who is to stop them from mandating that we buy other products as well?

[ClarkUSA]

20. You're blaming the Dems for delaying this vote until now? That's a crock of shit.

<<I'd expect that kind of shit from Tom Delay.>>

FYI, "that kind of shit" is "from" the Party of Delay, aka. the Party of No, who forced Democrats to a full vote of 800+ amendments for months.

<<And if they can mandate we buy insurance, who is to stop them from mandating that we buy other products as well?>>

You mean like car insurance?

:eyes:

[rapturedbyrobots]

44. that's not a valid comparison

and you know it. people can CHOOSE not to own a car. nobody can choose not to get sick or injured.

[No Elephants]

112. Even if you stay healthy, you have to buy private health insurance. Your only ways out are to

commit suicide, become impoverished, so that you qualify for Medicaid, or pay taxes through the nose.

[JDPriestly]

65. Driving is a privilege not a right.

That is why the government can require us to buy car insurance -- because the government can demand something in exchange for a privilege.

Health care insurance is very different from car insurance. Personally, I think there is a good chance that the mandate to buy health insurance could be deemed unconstitutional. I'm not an expert in that area of the law, but a challenge might have a good chance. On the other hand, I'm sure that the legislators have discussed their ideas with lawyers.

[bertman]

81. My question is "Why did it HAVE to be passed before Christmas?" Would it have hurt to

spend a few more days or even weeks on it, rather than pushing it right up to Christmas Eve, when it is off many Americans' minds?

I'm looking for an honest answer on this. Thanks.

[SergeStorms]

100. Because that's what President Obama wants.

He thinks of it as a huge "gift" to the American people. :eyes: If you can call forcing people to buy crappy, overpriced insurance under penalty of Federal law a "gift".

In very few words, it's about Obama's ego. He's been suffering from messiah withdrawal lately. He wants to lay on the beach in Hawaii convinced in his own mind that the greatest piece of legislation since the Roosevelt administration took place during HIS watch. And the symbolic Christmas time-line is just another feather in his cap, as he sees it. As I said, he sees it as a huge gift to Americans. I see it as a huge gift to insurance companies, but what do I know? :shrug:

It seems few others here share his conviction that this is what's best for the American people. Count me as one of them.

[bertman]

132. I certainly would not discount your explanation, SergeStorms. A year ago I would not have

gone along with that possibility, but now I'm willing to accept it. I'm sad to say it, though.

[No Elephants]

111. If the Democrats had the votes within their own Caucus, they could have passed a bill

without a single Republican vote and may well finally do that.

Republicans control squat in Congress.

On edit: The Democrats just did pass the bill without a single Republican vote.

[bertman]

133. Yes, I understand that, No Elephants, but it was the raging desire to get it passed BEFORE

Christmas that I could not understand. To me Christmas is only a break in the work schedule of Congress and not some date that should be a deadline for such important legislation.

[fascisthunter]

60. I Think this conservative wing of the Democratic Party Has Eaten itself

They played their hand way too soon, and assumed everyone wouldn't notice. Time to kick the bums out and find a way to make that permanently.

[Zhade]

64. You're replying to a poster who denies that Obama lied about campaigning on a PO.

Not worth your time to argue with a willfully-ignorant True Believer.

[sabrina 1]

82. Your last question is already being asked by many people.

It sets a precedent that has never been set before and don't think Republicans, once they are back in power, won't use it.

I can easily imagine them passing legislation for women, usually their first targets, forcing them to participate in privately run for-private anti-abortion educational programs before getting an abortion. They only have to point to point to 'mandatory insurance with the IRS acting as collection agency for Private Insurers'.

If we have become so meek that we are going to swallow this, they know, we will swallow anything. I'm sure there are people working on this already in preparation for a Republican Congress. And then we'll get to see how a party in the majority manages to get done what they want to get done.

The problem is, Obama told the truth tonight, he said this is 95% the way he wanted it. So, what % was the PO? Or his campaign position on 'no mandates'? What was it he didn't get? He said there 'some things' but didn't say what they were. He's already said the PO was just an ideological issue between left and right. He USED to support it, now he doesn't. He used to oppose mandates, now he doesn't. He once was against spying on the American people, now he isn't.

[Odin2005]

16. KILL THE BILL

[SergeStorms]

101. If you wouldn't mind.........

I'd like to be the one who drives the stake into it's heart. PLEASE? Can I, huh, huh? }(

[TheWatcher]

103. If you're actually serious about that.

Then we have a very Historic Moment on DU.

You and I AGREE on Something.

Call Hell.

It's going to be a Cold Day In The Ninth Circle. :)

[xchrom]

17. Barbara lee speaks for me! Nt

[pnwmom]

21. And how are we going to find 60 votes for a bill progressives would like?

The Parliamentarian has already made it clear that reconciliation cannot be used for regulatory issues.

[laughingliberal]

30. Perhaps, this time Rahm will need to go in and tell his Blue Lap Dogs to make the deal

I have no doubt we'd have gotten some kind of PO in the Senate bill if Rahm had been head bashing for it.

[totodeinhere]

35. Then get another parliamentarian. I'm sick and tired of the Dem leadership pussyfooting around...

all the time. And I'm sick of the "we can't pass this, we can't pass that" crowd. If we can't pass a good bill with the majorities we have now, we never will. It's now or never. Don't let this historic opportunity pass us by.

[pnwmom]

39. That isn't an option. n/t

[Zhade]

67. Thanks to attitudes like yours.

NT!

[musicblind]

87. No but thanks to attitudes like yours the dem party will be even worse off after all of this

They are going to be in deep after passing this shit bill... but unrealistic expectations can make it even worse.

And know that I'm not an Obama defender, and I do believe we need the public option. But the reality may be that there is no way to GET to that public option without 60 dems... and right now we don't have 60 dems in the Senate. Lieberman and Nelson don't count, they do not have democratic values.

I believe that Obama did not do enough to support the option, but I believe that supporting it strongly may very well not have made any difference. It would have been nice to see, however, so that we'd know his heart was in the right place.

[Devil_Fish]

50. I herd that after reconciliation, all it needs is a simple majority.

so lieberman can go fuck him self.

[No Elephants]

114. If people had really tried in a concerted and organized manner, we might know.

The implication that "It didn't actually happen; therefore it could not possibly have happened under any scenario" is not valid.

[bfarq]

135. You simply have to break the bill into pieces

and clearly 75% or more of a progressive health care bill would easily fit under the reconciliation rules.

It would require a bit more work and time, but with the current bill, very little happens before 2014 anyway. So take two months to pass the major pieces under reconciliation, and make sure they deliver real benefits in 2010 before the mid-terms. Then you come back for the rest after the public has spoken in the 2010 elections.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

22. Democratic Reps. Lynn Woolsey and Barbara Lee = racist PUMAs

[lies and propaganda]

23. RACIST???????????? How the fuck?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

26. .

:sarcasm:

[lies and propaganda]

40. dear lord, Im sorry, LOL!

Woolsey is my Rep and im fiercely loyal.. i just got all pre-emptive, sorry! ;p

[Hassin Bin Sober]

46. LOL ... saright

[Webster Green]

69. My rep also..

We're lucky! :toast:

[Le Taz Hot]

104. Self delete

(Should have read a couple of more responses down before I replied.) Erase erase.

[ShortnFiery]

24. Bless THEM! Yes KILL THIS POS! eom

[andym]

25. If there is to be any semblance of a really good bill, there has to be pressure fom the left during

the House-Senate deliberations.

[No Elephants]

115. Agree, but the left has been putting on pressure all along. They think the left has

nowhere else to go, so they are not all that worried about the left. They worry about the independents, Blue Dogs, traitors liek Lieberman and Republicans, like Lincoln and Collins. Those are the current policy setters for the Democrat Party.

[wryter2000]

124. Exactly

Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner. There will be negotiations, but they had their "you don't get a bill without me." It's time our side is heard.

Two NoCal ladies. Barbara Lee is my rep, and she's the best!

[RBInMaine]

27. They are in non-reality land. Public Option simply can not pass now, and "kill the bill" is stupid.

I am a single payer supporter, a public option supporter, and more importantly a realist. Public Option can not and will not pass now. Killing the bill after having gotten this close and giving absolutely no one a victory but the RePUKES would be one of the stupidest mistakes in history. This chance will not come again for perhaps another 100 years. Don't agree? Tell me how to get the votes to pass public option under Senate rules? Reconciliation will not happen. There is no choice but to withold public option now, give the rest a chance, and bring that back as a separate bill later down the road. Welcome to reality folks. It has been with us since the inception of the country.

[katkat]

29. RBInMaine

The current bill is worse than nothing.

What is this crap about not for another 100 years? We can go at this again and again and again every damn year.

I'd like to see us start with one simple bill:

Medicare gets to negotiate drug prices. Then we post a list of shame of people who vote no on that. Etc.

[still_one]

36. That is the question. Is it worse then the current system? I guess that all depends on your

situation. Do you think posting a list of shame will really change people in Congress votes?

but let me state one thing that I do not understand. If Lee and Woolsey are not selection to be part of the group from the house, what make anyone think it will change?

[twitomy]

61. Rest assured if this crap passes,

Repubs will take over after 2010 and attempt to repeal it, if the SC doesnt kill it first.

[Devil_Fish]

52. if this passes, there isn't a snow ball's chance in hell that they will come back and fix it later.

[humbled_opinion]

53. No its smart.

The public at large doesn't want this crap, look at the polls. It needs baby steps but the right way not these mandates that simply will not work without a single payer.

[defendandprotect]

75. This is wealth care not health care -- kill the bill . . . it's more corporate fascism....

[eridani]

93. There is NOTHING in the bill that justifies forcing us to buy garbage

--from parasites who pay their employees bonuses to deny claims. The good parts could be pulled and passed separately.

[SergeStorms]

102. I respectfully disagree...

if you think this is a victory for the American people - and health care reform in general - I would certainly hate to see what you consider a loss for the American people. :shrug: Sorry, I'm just not convinced that this bill is anything more than a giveaway to corporate America.

Reality, as defined by you, apparently means bending over and offering yourself to be cornholed in perpetuity. I assure you that was not the intention of our founding fathers since "the inception of the country". They fought and died for their ideals, they didn't cave in and capitulate with their foes.

Just my opinion.

[sendero]

118. As with the banker bailouts..

... there is a contingent here that just doesn't get it. Our entire government has been co-opted by corporate interests and its every activity is aimed at sucking ever last dollar from the pockets of the middle class.

This "reform" is exactly that. Mandates would be ok with a public option. Without it, they are nothing but a corporate giveaway.

The insurance companies have a million tricks up their sleeves to get around any good intentions in this bill, and they will.

[No Elephants]

116. Public option did not pass. That in no way means it cannot and will not pass.

Ditto for reconciliation.

The way to have gotten votes was for both the President, the DNC and the leadership of the Party and of the Senate to have played hardball in a smart and organized way. For whatever reason, they chose not to do that. Some say this is really the bill they wanted all along. I don't know if that is true, but I know they did not do all they could have done in the best way that they could have done it.

[katkat]

28. It should be easy to get Lieberman to support a public option

Do you think he'd like his committee assignments flushed, and lots of federal money not going to Connecticut?

Of course, that assumes we had a Pres who isn't spending all his time on a Liars Tour and actually had any interest in a public option.

[laughingliberal]

32. yep nt

[still_one]

38. What makes you think that taking away his committee chairmanship and any money his state gets

would affect lieberman's position on a public option?

He already went against what the majority in has state wanted for a public option, so obviously there is a force much greater than helping his state

[No Elephants]

117. Plus, the Democratic Party putting up a really strong candidate against him --and then supporting

that candidate? The Party and its leaders campaigned hard for Lieberman in the primary, then abandoned Lamont, just as the Republicans abandoned their own candidates. Lieberman did not win that election. He was annointed by both Parties.

[totodeinhere]

31. It's great to see some Democrats in Congress standing up for what's right.

Fuck the Liebermans and Nelsons of this world. Fuck the entire GOP. Take it to reconciliation and get a good bill.

[still_one]

33. just a small point. If Lee and Woolsey are not chosen to be on the committee, how would it get done

[XemaSab]

41. Two of my favorite congresswomen!

:D

[EVDebs]

42. Sign the petition at Yes We Still Can...don't kill the bill...go to conference committee !

http://yeswestillcan.org/

[diane in sf]

54. signed, as a volunteer, voter, and donater:

[senseandsensibility]

43. You go girls.

Is this getting the play that jomentum's or nelson's demands get on the corporate media?

[MasonJar]

45. How do they kill it? My understanding is that the Senate has more power

in the negotiations. I hope I am wrong.

[defendandprotect]

77. This bill is a PR attempt at a "win" by pushing garbage . . .

Meanwhile, it's simply more corporate fascism --

and as a health care reform it simply enables more health care crime by insurance,

pharma and "for profit" health care industry!!

There are no cost limits unless we at the minimum have a public option!!

[chimpymustgo]

47. You GO, girls! Fight for the PEOPLE!!!

[EndElectoral]

49. Thank you Rep Slaughter. You restore my faith in the Democratic Party with your courage

[SHRED]

80. not so fast:

Late update:
Slaughter's spokesman tells Greg Sargent that she isn't ruling out voting for a bill, even if it doesn't have a public option.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/house-rules-committee-chair-kill-the-bill-and-start-over.php

[humbled_opinion]

51. I agree.

Kill It.

[andym]

56. If they can't get the PO now, they should at least get a guarantee from Pelosi

that a more significant PO and/or Medicare expansion will be brought forth next year via reconciliation. I'd rather that they get a strong PO/larger Medicare expansion than the small compromised one in the House bill.

[RoccoR5955]

57. I can see Kucinch and Hinchey voting against this POS

Maybe Conyers too.

[twitomy]

62. Meh! Translation: Where OUR bribe?!! NT

[NatlAnthem]

68. Train Wreck of a Bill x 2

So let's begin with the end in mind ...

What I *hear* democrats/liberals/progressives wanting is to:
a) Have health insurance be more affordable
b) Have a safety net for those who cannot afford it or whose condition/situation precludes it
c) Remove the fear of disaster from losing a job, getting ill, or changing careers/positions

And yet neither bill (House or Senate) achieves any of those.
a) Net net, the financial cost on the poor and middle-class will be greater under the bill for less coverage and freedom
b) Half of those not insured now will still not have coverage
c) You are only trading fear of a life change to fear of denial by a government review. The cancer that was hard to cure now will be impossible to cure later, in that screenings will be reduced leading to discovery of the disease too late, and who will want to innovate in care when there is no incentive, only fears of liability?
d) Nothing in the bill addresses the costs of care, it only tries to control the price of insurance. A low statutory rate of compensation with an ever increasing cost of mandated services leads to bankruptcy of providers and insurers both.
e) Which leads to a single government payer system with spiraling costs, rationing of care and counseling for those who seek care beyond what is deemed appropriate.

It is easy to see why many would want to kill the bill and start over. Perhaps focusing on real market growths that lead to business opportunities for products and services, which lead to jobs and cash to cover health care needs would be a start. Then perhaps a real bill might also address the source of rising costs in health care, like all the heroic measures need to avoid lawsuits (both in pharma and in services). Or maybe taking a look at the silly way Medicare is partitioned, such that one half doesn't care about the hospital expenses incurred by the other half since it doesn't hit their budget.

Real change comes by giving people opportunity, breaking down the impediments to competition and optimization while allowing innovation. Real change comes from creating an environment for people to get involved voluntarily both by giving their time and their money to service and charities. Maybe provide legislation that allows people to voluntarily up their tax rate by 1-3%, but have assurance it goes directly to cover health care costs of the most needy.

Being fixated on passing ANY bill, or being fixated on a single payer solution might just be blinding Democrats to some huge game winning options that achieve real change AND political clout. Or you can just keep bitchin about Big Corporations (tm), that Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (tm) or and obsession with Sarah Palin.

[New Dawn]

71. Kill the Bill! Defeat the Fascist "Individual Mandate"!

Forcing people to buy a product or service from a private company is fascist economics. Wake up America.

[Johnny ramone]

72. K&R

[dana_b]

73. good!

keep fighting until it's over

[defendandprotect]

74. Also 17,000 physicians for single payer coming out to see this bill killed . . .

When truth is told, it's that this is wealth care -- not health care.

[SHRED]

76. They always say this and then this crap:

Late update:
Slaughter's spokesman tells Greg Sargent that she isn't ruling out voting for a bill, even if it doesn't have a public option.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/house-rules-committee-chair-kill-the-bill-and-start-over.php


---

[Vidar]

78. K&R.

[Maraya1969]

79. Only 44,000 more dead while you kill this one and spend a year getting new one

While we are probably going to lose seats in the house and, God forbid the Senate, then we can just kill health reform goodbye forever.

In the meantime tough one those dead people.

[xchrom]

83. +1

[EFerrari]

86. Yes, let's rush to put all our health care in the hands of the insurance companies

who are notorious for their dedication to providing good health care for people whose life depends on it.

[eridani]

94. This bill kills them just as dead. This is shitty coverage that offers NO help

--with routine medical expenses. It is barely more than catastrophic, and plenty of people will not be able to afford to pay and also pay for their meds. The only difference is that they get to be forced into poverty for awhile before being killed or bankrupted.

[okieinpain]

85. betcha $5 bucks when it comes out of committee their won't be

a public option and they will all support it. then everyone on here can call lee, woolsey and slaughter liars......

[musicblind]

88. As of right now I completely empathise with the people who say "kill this bill"

whether killing it or not is the absolute best course of action, idk, it may be a bad idea and only time will tell... but if they do kill it, I do not blame them one bit for making that decisions at this particular moment in time. It is a game of strategy and we'll just have to hope, which every choice our congressmen make, that in the end we have played it right.

[burning rain]

89. I say pass the bill, watered-down crony capitalist stuff though it is, because it will save lives.

But, there's a case to be made for Lee's and Woolsey's, and even Slaughter's, positions. The lack of a public option and not allowing reimportation of drugs, are disgraceful. Senate Democrats could exercise the "nuclear option" and show thereby that they care enough to pass solid reform. Most Americans want solid results; we do not care about the Senate's stupid fetishes of collegiality, unanimous consent, and endless indulgence of minorities of 41, indeed, every individual stick in the mud.

[eridani]

95. It will not. People die all the time who have insurance that is much better than this shit n/t

[burning rain]

96. Are you claiming the expansion of Medicaid, & community health centers, will not save more lives?

That would be an absurd claim.

[eridani]

131. You don't need fascist MANDATES in order to enact those things n/t

[yurbud]

97. the House bill is weak, but at least would be a basis for future improvement

the all private senate bill is corporate serfdom legalized.

[NuttyFluffers]

120. i love my Rep Barbara Lee!

:loveya:

she keeps fighting on the side of right more than any representative i know! i know she's got my back, and next election i'll be sure to get hers again. she speaks for me! :)

[Faryn Balyncd]

123. K and R. . .

[mvd]

125. I hope they at least keep fighting for improvements

Sanders thinks the health clinics would help people. And I don't consider him corrupted, so I guess he has a point. The more I think about it, the more I think this bill might allow some people to get care that don't have it. But in the long run, it's worse than what we have IMO. Still not enough regulation and competition for insurance companies. While we do all need to be part of the system, that should be something like single payer's health care taxes. The mandate of getting insurance from a private company just for being a person is a huge sticking point with me. And we saw the lack of motivation to put in the public option among Party leaders except Pelosi.

So, I'm not opposed to passage as long as improvements are made. I just wonder if they will be put in. Not as optimistic as I was.

[freddie mertz]

126. The only hope for real reform is with the House.

The Senate monstrosity needs to be sliced and diced.

[Wardoc]

128. I'm starting to believe this thing is going to be killed. Cautiously optimistic.

[tomhayes]

134. So Status Quo is fine with you?

Those are pretty much the two options available with this congress:

1)The Senate version

2)NOTHING

Or do you have another option that doesn't involve changing the "hearts" of Lieberman, Nelson, Landrieu, etc???

[mzmolly]

130. Good for Louise!

K and R.

[yurbud]

136. Slaughter is right. I would go farther: the House bill is C- work, and Senate's is an F for...

plagiarizing the work of insurance company lobbyists.

[omega minimo]

137. .