Poll: Churchgoers disagree on immigration

[AlphaCentauri]

Source: UPI

A vast majority of U.S. churchgoers across all major denominations disagree with their leaders' pro-immigration stances, a survey indicates.

Despite calls from the leaders of mainline and evangelical Protestant, Catholic and Jewish religions for illegal immigrants to be allowed a path to legalized residency, rank-and-file church members across the religious spectrum reject their positions and instead favor tougher enforcement aimed at making the immigrants go home, a Zogby Poll released Wednesday indicated.

Moreover, the pollsters found that members strongly disagree with their leaders' contention that more immigrant workers need to be allowed into the country and insist there are plenty of Amercians available for low-paying manual labor jobs and seasonal farm work.


Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2009/12/30/Poll-Churchgoers-disagree-on-immigration/UPI-35921262191449/

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In God we trust but not in what he said

[Sultana]

1. In b4 the Christian bashing begins....

[FreakinDJ]

12. LOL

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7347634

[AndrewP]

2. Non tolerant Church goers. Gee, what a shock.

[WriteDown]

8. Tolerant of what? Breaking the law?

In some Islamic sects, rape of a woman is not looked down upon. That must be the ultimate tolerance. Similarity, they're both breaking the law.

[AndrewP]

17. In some Christian denominations

They are intolerant of gay marriage.

Use the word how you see fit I suppose.

[W T F]

19. I guess it's ok to break the law if you're white. i.e.....

Torture, extraordinary renditions, Illegal war. etc.

[MellowDem]

32. Barack is only half-white...

;-)

But, I think what you meant to say is that it is only OK to break the law if you are willing to work "off the books" because of your illegal status, thus taking away good paying jobs while being treated relatively badly yourself, all in service to the God of capitalism.

[Texano78704]

24. Since when is a violent crime the equivalent?

No one breaks laws here. No jaywalking, cheating on taxes, or running red lights here. All of these are generally civil violations like overstaying a travel visa.

[Craftsman]

3. I figure the majority of Americans are against Amnesty

[izquierdista]

14. and Amnesty International too.

Considering their desire to continue torture, rendition, and other human rights abuses.

[depakid]

39. +1

And they stem from the same root- fear, and a obsession with the Old Testament.

[roguevalley]

28. true. during hard times expect hard stands. they just polled church

people on their opinions but expect it to be typical of most groups here, especially during hard times.

[Big_Mike]

50. I have said it over and over...

go through the legal process to come here and work and I say "Come on in, the water is fine!"

Cross the border illegally and you should be shipped back so hard you bounce.

EOM

[Deep13]

4. Pretty typical average American views. nt

[nyc 4 Biden]

15. +1

[Jamastiene]

5. Oh, the irony.

Who are you calling an "immigrant," pilgrim? That RATM t-shirt popped into my mind immediately.

[WriteDown]

6. Does that mean that we have to have completely open borders?

Doesn't that mean that almost EVERY country need to open their borders as well?

[Jamastiene]

29. It must have flown over your head...

It's a Native American thing. Nevermind.

[WriteDown]

42. Doubtful...

Considering that's me.

[MellowDem]

33. The pilgrims were colonists and invaders...

very different from the current stock of illegal immigrants.

[alp227]

7. Religious people think independently until the pastor is too liberal?

We should be thanking the religious leaders for standing up to bigotry. If anyone is to be blamed for the worshipers' anti-immigration stances, it's right-wing hatemongerers like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, Pat Buchanan (especially), and Michelle Malkin (ironically a child of illegal immigrants herself, she coined the term "anchor baby")

[WriteDown]

9. Enforcing the law is bigotry?

Interesting.

Also, looked that claim up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Malkin

[alp227]

16. Thing is, many anti-illegal immigration activists tend to be racists too

They go beyond just enforcing the law to claim that they are conspiring to wreck American culture and values.

Name one person in this list who is progressive and is not racist.

Besides, isn't it too expensive to deport every noncitizen vs. helping them become productive citizens?

[WriteDown]

18. Activists?

And what exactly is the definition of that? Obviously, I'm not going to go through that whole list.

So the laws should just be ignored?

[Deep13]

20. Don't judge the individual by the group.

People can agree that there have to be limits on immigration and not be racist. That doesn't include Dobbs oe the Foxperts, of course.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

21. a lot of laws are bigoted. nt

[WriteDown]

43. Links? nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

45. DADT. DOMA. are two that immediately spring to my mind

[WriteDown]

46. Support neither of those,

But I think the focus is on racial bigotry.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

47. you asked whether enforcing a law can be bigoted and i was giving you examples

there are numerous examples of racial bigotry in laws from time immemorial

[LanternWaste]

27. Often that is the case...

"Enforcing the law is bigotry?"
Quite often that has been and is the case...

[WriteDown]

44. Links? nt

[LanternWaste]

48. As has been stated upthread

As has been stated upthread, DODT is but one...

[Edweird]

10. If it's good enough for Canada, it's good enough for us.

[Ian David]

11. Wow, religious people are actually MORE bigoted than their leaders. Who knew? n/t

[MellowDem]

34. Nah, just less biased....

the church leaders want new members, the church goers want jobs.

[Soylent Brice]

13. i'd like to say i'm shocked, but i'm not. n/t

[struggle4progress]

22. The poll was done for the rightwing Center for Immigration Studies. It makes no effort

to determine the actual policies of the various national denominational organizations or to compare the views of denomination members with those (if any) of their national organizations. Instead, the poll paints vague generalizations of national denominational organization policies, asks some generic questions of members, then claims a general disconnect. This fits the now-familiar rightwing strategy of using churches for under-the-radar political organizing of conservatives

Center for Immigration Studies
http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/Center_for_Immigration_Studies

Religious Leaders vs. Members: An Examination of Contrasting Views on Immigration
http://www.cis.org/ReligionAndImmigrationPoll

[struggle4progress]

23. The linked article is from the Moonie-owned UPI, and exhibits the standard rightwing Moonie slant

under the guise of reporting: for example,

... pollsters found that members strongly disagree with their leaders' contention that more immigrant workers need to be allowed into the country ...
Poll: Churchgoers disagree on immigration
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2009/12/30/Poll-Churchgoers-disagree-on-immigration/UPI-35921262191449

Immigration policies advocated by national denominational organizations are likely to be considerably more nuanced than the Moonie "summary" more immigrant workers need to be allowed into the country -- and as I remarked upthread the poll does not actually examine policies advocated by national denominational organizations, nor does the poll compare views of denominational members to actual policies, when reaching the conclusion members strongly disagree with their leaders

[blue97keet]

25. Churches in bed with Wall Street corporatists and "free traders"

no surprise.

[Quantess]

26. Understandable, at a time when unemployment is so high.

Ask again when unemployment is down to pre-recession rates, and the answers may be more welcoming to immigrants.

[AlphaCentauri]

30. Polls from 1996 and 1998

suggest similar answers when they are done in right wing groups nothing chance in their opinion.

[MellowDem]

31. Church leaders are for it....

because it is a good source of new potential church members, given the rather conservative and religious immigrants coming up from south of the border.

[AlphaCentauri]

36. Do we care what Jesus says?

A congregation was divided over whether or not to welcome some new immigrants into their congregation. Everyone knew that most of the new arrivals were undocumented. In the midst of their struggle they decided to turn to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For several weeks they studied how Jesus included the children, the women, the Samaritans, the rich, the poor. He seemed to always include those whom others found reason to exclude. Finally, one young woman in her frustration stood up and said, “I don’t care what Jesus says, I don’t want those people in my church.”

It seems to me that for those who call themselves Christian, for those who claim to follow Jesus, the primary bottom line question on the issue of immigration is not a question of legality; the bottom line is, “Do we care what Jesus says?”

When asked what is the greatest commandment, Jesus replied to love God and the second is to love our neighbor. When asked, “Who is my neighbor?” he responded by telling the parable of the Good Samaritan in which Jesus made the excluded Samaritan the hero, while the two religious faithful, concerned about legality, walked by on the other side. Jesus was saying that everyone, even Samaritans, are your neighbors.

http://www.cochurches.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=31&Itemid=69

[MellowDem]

38. Ever hear of seperation of church and state?

The church leaders will do what is best for their church. But the question of illegal immigration is not a religous question, and therefore can't be viewed as WWJD. I fully agree with you that Jesus would accept anyone, regardless of borders, but that really should have no bearing on what the government does.

[AlphaCentauri]

40. Since the question is asked inside the Church about their leaders

it has to deal with their theology and their cannons not with the state laws as it should be separated from the state

[Bill McBlueState]

35. In the mainline denominations,

the pastors tend to be more progressive than the members. The pastors are pretty well-educated, and their educations emphasize the kind of deep analytical thought that leads to progressive values. But in many of these denominations, congregations have a lot of power to give the boot to a pastor they don't like. So pastors tend to be sort of quiet about their more progressive positions.

[AlphaCentauri]

37. Thats true, in the mainline denominations beside education many pastors serve as missionaries

when they are young helping the poor around the world.

[marshall]

41. Are they talking about legal or illegal immigration?

Many many people enter the country legally and work their way through the system and become citizens of the US.

[RedCloud]

49. Another view on "paleface" arrivals.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__yNJNuTMHuM/R6Js0RjvPpI/AAAAAAAAAH8/eCT35RuaDLI/s400/American+Indian.JPG