Foes of Health Bill look to the Courts

[The Hope Mobile]

Source: AP

A small but vocal contingent of legal scholars and many Republican lawmakers argue that the measures passed by both chambers are unconstitutional and will be ruled so by the Supreme Court. Their primary target: the individual mandate, which requires people to get health insurance or pay a financial penalty of at least 2 percent of their income to the government.

Though it would affect only those who do not get insurance from their employer, Medicare or Medicaid, the mandate is a central component of Democrats' reform plans, which operate under the assumption that bringing everyone into the national insurance pool — particularly young, healthy people who do not have coverage — will reduce premiums across the board. By adding millions of new customers, the mandate is also designed to make reform more palatable for insurance companies, which will face new restrictions and requirements.
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But some critics dismiss the economic merits, saying the bills would force people to buy a particular product. Laws requiring drivers to carry auto insurance do the same thing, but people can choose not to own a car. The health insurance mandate includes no such alternative.

"In the history of this country, the federal government has never required every American to enter into a contract with a private company," said Randy Barnett, a professor of constitutional law at Georgetown University Law Center.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34667462/ns/politics-washington_post/

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Why is it republicans against this and not democrats? Obviously they're outside the corporate loop. Thoughts on this?

[The Hope Mobile]

1. Less than zero by the health insurance trolls.

Thanks guys!:rofl: :rofl:

[Cleita]

2. I'm amazed too because this plan was the one Republicans pushed

as their solution to the health care problem in previous administrations. They probably will be saving Democrats a big blame game if they stop it. This health bill will implode and Democrats will be blamed for it even though it was a minority of DINOS who brought us to where we are.

[The Hope Mobile]

4. Exactly!

Is it just that they want to defeat anything Obama does or are they out of the loop and don't realize that its their buddies, the insurance industry, that really want this bill???? Democrats should be fighting this because of the mandate NOT republicans.

[area51]

20. Mandates

This was a republican idea from the get-go; the first person I heard to want a law to force people to buy our for-profit, unregulated health insurance was Newt Gingrich.

[al bupp]

26. A Classic Bait & Switch?

Or just classic republican opportunism, we may never be sure.

[Mechatanketra]

27. Minority? Not exactly.

One could say it was a minority of crypto-Republicans who created the impetus for the bill's problems, but it was the Team Jersey Democrat majority — those for whom labels and talking points are all that matters, rather than end result effects — that brought us to where we are. Too many people are wrapped up in the idea that the goal is "a health care reform bill" (whatever is in it), or "getting more people insured" (even if the insurance is empty paper policies), when what the people want is "being able to afford my medical bills". So the Democratic politicians are busy decorating a box labeled "health care solution", and whenever anyone points out that there's nothing in the box, their supporters scream about how "you're endangering the health care solution! It says so right on the box!"

(That seems to be the ideological split between "purists" and "pragmatists" right now. The pragmatist is someone who wants "results"; and since everything results in something, they're always happy. If you care what the result is, you're a purist and can be ignored as unrealistic.)

In other words, the "blue dogs" are a problem, but the "yellow dogs" are the problem. It's like a sitcom family, if Mom tries to discipline a kid by saying "no dessert", and Dad sneaks them ice cream anyways.

[Lorien]

3. They've got nothing to lose

they don't expect to win the lawsuit, so they can run on their opposition to the mandates without actually pissing off the hand that feeds them. It's not like they have any ideas of their own to put out there.

[The Hope Mobile]

5. I'm pretty sure that SCOTUS as it is now, isn't going to touch it . . . nt

[James48]

7. Yes, SCOTUS will hear the case

And will find that the mandate is illegal.

The ONLY way to do it legally, is to insist on a public option, and require, instead of a fine, a TAX to the Treasury instead.

The Constitution is clear- nothing authorizes the power to MANDATE a private individual to pay money to a private company. Issuing a fine in such a case will not stand up.

But go back and look at the Court rulings related to Social Security, and you'll find the Supreme Court found in favor of SS- BECAUSE it utilized the power to tax, and that the federal government held the money.

Senate- you better wake up now- Public Option is NECESSARY to sustain a Supreme Court Challenge.

[Donnachaidh]

22. YES! welcome to DU!

:thumbsup:

[WattleBreakfast]

24. You are correct! Great post!

[Jamastiene]

6. Uhm, my suggestion:

Go back and watch how the Republicans are acting in any videos there may be of the most vocal ones. Don't pay any attention to the ones who are against the Medicaid expansion. Those are real. The ones to watch are the ones about the mandates.

While watching the videos, ask yourself, is that bad acting or is this bad acting?

If you do this, it will hit you like a ton of bricks and you'll see right through it. You'll wonder why you didn't see through it before.

Remember: smoke and mirrors.

They will use the populist theme against the mandates to get air time, while under the radar, they will strip the Medicaid expansion. I can just about guarantee the Medicaid expansion will be either:

1.) taken out altogether in the final bill
2.) taken out later
3.) Made optional for the states

#3 is the one I think will actually happen. So, the poor will still have no access to health care. I don't see my state EVER actually carrying out the Medicaid expansion. Period. No way in hell.

I know how Republicans and Blue Dogs operate. They are transparent. Smoke and mirrors, my friend. Smoke and mirrors. You just need to know where to look and HOW to look.

[BP2]

8. Good analysis. eom

[LibDemAlways]

9. Opposition to the mandate is the key to the R's regaining a majority

in Congress this fall. They know that once Americans get wind of it, they are going to oppose it. I think it's just good strategy on the R's part to be against it, and to constantly remind people which party voted for it. Really really bad idea for the Dems to enact it. I hope to God Obama comes to his senses and refuses to sign a bill requiring Americans to turn over their hard-earned dollars to insurance industry thugs. A sure loser.

[Amonester]

11. But Rahm and Axelrod want to have a VICTORY in...

the State-Of-The-Union speech to brag about.

These guys R that much incompetent.

It's like they WANT to be there for no longer than one term.

[LibDemAlways]

21. Rahm and Axelrod ought to convene a panel of ordinary Americans

at the White House once in a while and listen to them. They might learn something. These guys are so far removed from reality it's frightening.

[Matariki]

10. I' ve been saying this *here* all along.

It only makes sense that it will be challenged in court.

[fasttense]

12. Good, I hope they challenge car insurance mandates while they are at it.n/t

[SergeStorms]

13. Read the entire article..........

they address that there. They say you don't have to drive a car, so insurance isn't really mandated. But you HAVE to buy this crappy health insurance, no matter what. That's the difference, at least from their POV. :shrug:

[fasttense]

14. Yeah but in many parts of rural America, if you don't have a car,

you don't have food or clothing either.

I read the article but don't agree with the logic. There is no public transportation in rural America and car insurance mandates are forcing the poor to pay a corporation that cancels the policy the minute it is used. I'm surprised Americans roll over for it.

[No Elephants]

17. Yeah, but no one forces you to live in those parts of rural America, either.

Suicide is the only way to free yourself totally from the health insurance mandate.

Besides, has the Constitutionality of the auto mandate ever been tested? Maybe we need a public option for that, too.

[WattleBreakfast]

25. Car Ins. mandates are not relavant in this debate.

Please leave them out.

You are obviously not aware that car insurance is insurance against property damage that you may cause others.

Please make yourself aware of this type of insurance and leave it out of the debate on health care.

[Wizard777]

15. I agree it's unconstitutional. If they want everyone into the pool.

Then they need to seize the entire pool. That will provide the cheapest insurance possible. You're going to pay for insurance regardless of if it's provided by a for profit insurance agency or a nonprofit government agency. The best possible hand in health care for Americans, not the insurance companies, is pooling our resources under the government. The bigger the pool the lower the rates. Government provided universal health care creates the biggest liability pool possible.

[midnight]

16. K&R.

[DallasNE]

18. This Court Could Knock Down Some Things 5-4

John Roberts has shown no deference to prior court rulings. With 5 Republicans and only 2 Democrats on the court anything is possible in political climate of today. This court will legislate from the bench with no qualms.

[mvd]

19. It probably will get a challenge, but..

I wouldn't put much stock into what the Repukes say. If Democrats call it illegal, then I might listen.

I have a big problem with a mandate without a public option, but I still think we had to pass the bill in order to get improvements. Otherwise, who knows when health care would come up again. There are short term benefits in the bill that will help, but we must work on getting the long range impact improved. I see lots of problems in the long range with price gauging and insurance company clout.

[Joe Bacon]

23. We KNOW what the Whore Court will do

Roberts and his Wrecking Crew can't wait to gut the bill. They will throw out all of the bill that is helpful, but keep the mandates. After all, serfs must pay their tithes to their corporate masters!