Extremist Islamic group defends UK parade

[T_i_B]

Source: BBC

The leader of an Islamic group, said to have extremist links, has written to families of fallen soldiers about its plans to march through Wootton Bassett.

Islam4UK wants to walk through the Wiltshire town, which has become famous for paying tribute to soldiers killed in Afghanistan, carrying empty coffins.

Anjem Choudary, of Islam4UK, admitted the town had been chosen because it would attract the most media attention. But former mayor Chris Wannell asked the group to reconsider its choice.

Islam4UK is said to call itself a "platform" for the extremist movement al-Muhajiroun.


Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/8438915.stm

[vadawg]

1. no chance the cops will let this happen, this will turn into a riot..

[T_i_B]

2. Can't see how any good can come of Islam4UK's stunt...

...if they go around acting like Fred Phelps.

[No Elephants]

8. Not really comparable.

"He said the event, if permitted by police, would involve peaceful "symbolic coffins" being carried to honour Muslim victims of the conflict in Afghanistan.

He said the event, if permitted by police, would involve peaceful "symbolic coffins" being carried to honour Muslim victims of the conflict in Afghanistan.

Mr Choudary said: "The procession is not actually about the people of Wootton Bassett and it never was about them.

"We are having a procession, it's in Wootton Bassett but it's not about the people there and it's not against them personally - rather it's to highlight the real cost of war in Afghanistan."


"The sad reality of the situation is that if I were to hold it somewhere else it would not have the media attention that it has now.

"If I am to balance between the sensitivity of having it in Wootton Bassett and the possibility of continuing the quagmire and cycle of death in Afghanistan, then quite honestly I'm going to balance in favour of the latter.

"In the next couple of weeks, I'm going to be engaging with the local community and the public at large by way of press releases and letters to explain why we're having this march."

[dipsydoodle]

3. Don't think it would turn into a riot

It's the mainly the locals there who turn out to show respect for those who have died in action and I'm guessing they'll just stay at home out of distaste.

[T_i_B]

4. Ah, but what of the chances...

...of idiots such as the English Defence League turning up for a "counter-demontration".

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. Sadly, quite high, and I'm sure that's what Choudary wants

He wants publicity for himself (sad to see the BBC giving the wanker publicity by interviewing him); and the 'defence league' and similar groups want publicity and trouble.

[dipsydoodle]

10. Could be right

I hadn't accounted for them.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[Chulanowa]

5. Yeah, god fucking forbid someone remember Muslims are getting killed too

[vadawg]

7. tell you what invite them to march at your place, this is not going to be done for some good reason

its looking more and more like this group wants a confrontation and i would bet that they will get it, you might not see the difference between the squaddies and the muslims but you can bet the people who welcome the squaddies home will.

[No Elephants]

9. We let all kinds of people march at "our place," including Nazis.

The fact that some other group might try to silence them was reason for additional police protection. It is not reason to silence anyone who is marching without violence.

If members of either side misbehave, arrest them. Otherwise, it's very important speech and should not be silenced.

[Stella_Artois]

12. No problem with that

A group using Muslim deaths (that they don't seem to have a huge problem with when they are suicide bombers) for political means is not really remembering them for respect's sake though.

These are the people who were not too happy about freedom of speech when some people dared to print newspapers depicting Mohammed in a certain way. Now they think its time for freedom of speech to be important again ?

Nah.

[Chulanowa]

14. And how is that different from our people here in America?

You know, the ones who use dead soldiers as a means to stifle criticism of any policy they support? "Support the troops"? These are the same people who get upset at atheist billboards or - heaven forbid - a sci-fi movie about giant blue people trying to deal with interstellar imperialism?

We still let them suck their teabags, we let them hold office, and they're all over the news programs.

But I guess that since they're not Muslim, that's all cool. But the minute someone syas "Allah" hoo boy! :eyes:

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

16. Is it truly comparable to the Tea Partiers?

After all, when it comes right down to it, Islam4UK is an extremist group that seeks to destroy Britain's institutions and replace them with Islamic ones. The Tea Party folks might have a different interpretation of the Constitution, but they're still relying on it as the basis for their beliefs. That's a pretty striking difference, IMO.

[Chulanowa]

17. No, no it's not

And even if you want to pretend that the Teabaggers are swell guys who are a little misguided... well, we let the Aryan nations hold rallies too.

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

19. Agreed.

As much as I dislike Islam4UK there's no doubt that they have the right to hold their march.

[Stella_Artois]

37. Nobody is supressing their freedom of speech

They can march if they want. I find their views to be counter to any kind of liberal ideal, but they must be allowed to express them.

However they cannot turn that place into a political battleground. It is different to any other place in the country.

Hell, you live in a country where you cannot even jog through Arlington Cemetery and you think it is OK for a group of political and religiouss extremeists to turn something that is fast assuming even greater importance to this country into some zoo suitable for pulling some cheap stunt ?

Nah.

This a piece written about Wootton Bassett last year

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/5771032/Wootton-Bassett-A-very-British-way-of-mourning.html

When Fred Phelps is allowed to protest at Arlington you can lecture us about "freedom of speech" until then, don't expect us to listen.

[T_i_B]

40. Well said

"When Fred Phelps is allowed to protest at Arlington you can lecture us about "freedom of speech" until then, don't expect us to listen."

I guess that the people defending Islam4UK/Al-Muhajiroun have never even heard of Wooton Bassett before today.

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

22. Right, but is that what they're really concerned about?

After all, more Muslim blood is being spilled by insurgents in Iraq than by coalition forces, same in Pakistan.

[marshall]

13. Imagine a militant Christian/Western group trying to do this in the Middle East

Even talking about doing it would probably be grounds for arrest. Actually doing it--who knows?

[Chulanowa]

18. And imagine if they got arrested; DU'ers would be up in arms

How dare those vile evil Muslims suppress freedom of speech, right?

Thankfully Great Britain's got higher democratic standards than Saudi Arabia. Though I'm perplexed as to why even so many on DU think we should make exceptions for one particular religion.

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

20. I think "why" is pretty self-explanatory

When you see folks hiding behind the law to spread a message that, if carried out, would deny you your rights, it tends to make people a little squeemish.

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

21. I also feel the need to point out that this is hardly the first instance of its kind

This issue has been heating up for some time now. In example, when a homecoming parade was held in Luton in March, Islamic radicals held a counter-rally at the event, carrying signs that read "Anglian soldiers go to hell", shouting "rapists" and "baby killers", etc.

Do they have the right to do these things? Sure.

Is it distasteful and a slap in the face of the country that allowed (yes, allowed) many of them and their families to immigrate there? Absolutely.

[muriel_volestrangler]

25. Actually, they may no't have that right

The Luton demonstrators are currently on trial:

Men in court over 'baby killer' chants at returned soldiers
...
Police had agreed to let activists gather and protest at the event in March last year but their behaviour meant officers felt obliged to intervene and make arrests, Luton magistrates court heard.

Police had to deal with angry scenes during the parade in the Bedfordshire town for members of the locally-based 2nd Battalion Royal Anglian Regiment who had served in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Seven men have denied using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/04/luton-troop-parade-protest-charges

Choudary is similary likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress, and it will be his main (perhaps only) reason for the march.

[Chulanowa]

23. So their rights should be preemptively quashed

Unless they're white or christian, when you'll let them say whatever the fuck they want.

Yeah. The "Why" is pretty self-explanatory alright.

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

24. Don't confuse the beliefs of others with my personal beliefs

As far as I'm concerned, they have the right to march. I think it's distasteful, I think it's a slap in Britain's face, and I think it will further hurt the public standing of Muslims in Britain, but it is also within this group's rights.

Also, hey, love it or hate it, there is a certain logic to peoples' desire to see this march banned. There's an old punk rock song that states this reasoning pretty clearly: "don't give them their freedom because they're not going to give you yours". The song is about beating down fascism wherever it sprouts up, but you get the idea. Again, not my personal belief, but I do see how people can arrive at that conclusion.

[Chulanowa]

28. Not your personal beliefs, just the ones you keep repeating and spinning

"Some people are saying!" "It's a joke!" "I'm just saying what I've heard" Blah blah blah.

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

29. Okay, I can see there's little point in discussing this with you further. Adios.

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

11. So the group who carried signs stating "freedom go to hell" wants the freedom to march

Hmmf.

[Name removed]

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[pissedoff01]

15. Let's hope their underwear doesn't explode

on their parade

[proteus_lives]

26. They want a riot, they want to be attacked.

It will be videotaped to show how bad the UK treats them.

Psy-ops.

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

30. Basically.

It seems they're assuming this can play out one of two ways: either they're denied the right to march or they're allowed to march and the public's reaction is violent. Either way, they will turn around and portray themselves as some poor, oppressed minority, thus gaining sympathizers.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

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[Behind the Aegis]

27. Let the bigots march.

Then, publish the march, if even doing that, in the "want ads" section.

"Anjem Choudary, of Islam4UK, admitted the town had been chosen because it would attract the most media attention."

Don't give him the attention (think Fred Phelps) or do so in such a way that is embarrassing, other than their bigotry.

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

31. +1

[JNelson6563]

32. It alwayas cracks me up

when people demand rights that they themselves would never grant to opposing view holders if the situation were reversed.

Julie

[ronnie624]

36. It always cracks me up

when people who claim to respect 'freedom of speech', advocate denying it to others.

My position allows me to condemn religious extremism and support a right to speak freely, without appearing hypocritical.

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

41. I'm not sure the poster you're responding to would disagree with you.

After all, I'm in agreement with your position, but still see the irony in Islam4UK exercising its rights under the very system it seeks to destroy and replace.

[bemildred]

38. At least put "extremist" in quotes. It's some persons opinion, not a fact. nt

[T_i_B]

39. "Islam4UK, said to call itself a "platform" for the extremist movement al-Muhajiroun"

I'm sorry, but there is no way on this earth that an Al-Muhajiroun front group can ever be described as anything other then extremist.

[bemildred]

43. "said to call itself"

Show me it's own spokespersons calling it "extremist" or admit that it is possible for someone to not call it that. I'm sure they think their views are not only correct but what everyone ought to think.

[LeftishBrit]

49. The vast majority of Brits - including most Muslims in the country - do consider him as extremist

The debate here about him and his group is basically on whether they should be banned, or just ignored and denied the oxygen of publicity. Not about whether he's extremist. E.g. he wants Sharia law adopted in Britain for everyone (not just Muslims); called the 9-11 perpetrators 'magnificent martyrs'; and refused to condemn the London bombers in July 2005.

The Muslim Council of Britain and affiliated groups have condemned Choudary and his group (though opposing an outright ban), and do describe them and their activities as 'extremist'.

http://www.mcb.org.uk/media/presstext.php?ann_id=382

www.theasiantoday.com/article.aspx?articleId=1624

http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=british+council+of+muslims+and+islam4uk&d=5042824238924826&mkt=en-GB&setlang=en-GB&w=6d7791c0,5f9c1148


On his part, he has accused the Muslim Council of Britain of 'selling their souls to the devil' for their condemnations of terrorist attacks.


Salma Yaqoob is a British Muslim, an anti-war activist, and a leader of Respect (the party founded by Galloway). She describes Choudary as a 'bigot whose goal in life is to create divisions':


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jan/05/wootton-bassett-salma-yaqoob


Come to think of it, I think he would have a certain amount in common with a bloke by the name of Pat Robertson!

[muriel_volestrangler]

42. Pretty much everyone's opinion

Read this transcript and see if you think Choudary is an extremist or not: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0707/01/siu.02.html

Sample: " Whoever insults Islam or insults the Prophet Mohammad deserves capital punishment!"

[bemildred]

44. You yourself say "you think Choudary is an extremist".

That would be my opinion if I held it, but I do not, so clearly not everyone has to think that.

[muriel_volestrangler]

45. I did say "pretty much everyone"

Maybe that's a British-only usage (though I didn't think it was), but it means less than 'absolutely everyone'. I'd say you're very rare if you don't think someone who supports bin Laden and the London Underground bombings is an extremist.

[bemildred]

46. Well, I would agree that it might be a popular viewpoint in Britain. nt

[T_i_B]

47. Islam4UK cancel Wootton Bassett protest plans

Thank f**k for that!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8451014.stm

A radical Islamic group has cancelled plans to hold an anti-war march through a town famous for honouring the UK's servicemen and women killed abroad.

Members of Islam4UK had planned to march through Wootton Bassett, Wiltshire, to honour Muslims killed in the Afghanistan conflict.

The group denied members had planned to carry 500 empty coffins through the town. Islam4UK had previously said it had chosen Wootton Bassett to create maximum publicity.

The News of the World reported on Sunday that Home Secretary Alan Johnson would outlaw the group on Monday.

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

48. Thanks for the update

[LeftishBrit]

50. Good