Fighter jets intercept Hawaii-bound flight after passenger gets disruptive

[brooklynite]

Source: Honolulu Advertiser

The Oregon Air National Guard scrambled two F-15 fighter jets after a passenger on a Hawaiian Airlines jet to Maui refused to let go of his carry-on bag and passed what was described as a "disturbing note" to a flight attendant.

Hawaiian Flight 39 was about 40 minutes into its trip to Maui's Kahului airport when, at 12:30 p.m. PST, the pilot reported a disturbance.

The two planes intercepted the flight at about 1 p.m. and then escorted it back to Portland, according to the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD).

The Boeing 767 headed back to the Portland airport, landing at 1:16 p.m. Law enforcement officers met the plane upon arrival and the passenger was removed.

Read more: http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20100106/BREAKING01/100106058/Fighter+jets+intercept+Hawaii-bound+flight+after+passenger+gets+disruptive

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Assuming the "disruptor" didn't have control of the plane (which he didn't), what exactly were the military jets going to do?

[niyad]

1. that was my first thought. eyewitnesses, maybe?

[Bonobo]

2. Were they prepared to shoot down the plane if the guy didn't turn over his carry on?

Also, why would someone have to "let go" of their carry-on baggage? What does that even mean?

What the fuck is wrong with US airlines? It is like they have zero common sense any more...

[thunder rising]

5. We exist to serve them.

[CTyankee]

57. Why wouldn't someone let go of their carry on bag?

I've been asked to put my carry on in the overhead bin. I took what I needed out of it and did so.

Truly, I've been flying since I was a kid and the only problem I've had with flight attendants and airline personnel was when my travel buddy couldn't find the stub of her boarding pass (she had her email confirmation and had gone thru all of the several security checkpoints) on a flight from Madrid to JFK. They finally let her on the plane after ordering me to get on the plane, which I did, but I continued my protest with the steward. It turned out that the stub was in the pocket of her jacket after all, even tho she said she had looked there...

[NYC_SKP]

3. Funny how no Fighter Jets Intercepted any airliners on September 11, 2001

Four different serious emergencies on that date, all ended badly.

:cry:

[Bonobo]

4. Shhh, questions like that will land this thread in the D-U-N-G-E-O-N!!! nt

[paulsby]

9. quite understandable

pre 9/11 vs. post 9/11 mentality and ROE

hth

[Andronex]

38. Wrong...

Before 9/11 airplanes going off course in the US were intercepted usually within 10 minutes, there was about 100 such cases every year, on 9/11 after nearly two hours no fighter jets intercepted the 4 hijacked planes.

[paulsby]

40. um, no.

INTERCEPTED?

i don't think so.

[Zhade]

61. Payne Stewart.

PWNED.

[paulsby]

64. you are correct

i was wrong. his plane was intercepted.

a critical difference however is that his transponder was not turned off

[superconnected]

55. Again, making it look like it was intentionally let happen, which I've believed

from the time I was watching the live footage of what was happening to the two towers, on the morning of 911.

[bullwinkle428]

46. Paulsby, are you familiar with the Payne Stewart plane crash?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payne_Stewart

That happened some two years prior to 9/11. In addition, that involved a small Learjet, not a large commercial airliner, and yet several Air Force and National Guard fighters were diverted to follow the course of the Learjet almost immediately after they lost radio communication!

[paulsby]

52. correct me if i'm wrong

god knows it's happened before, but... wasn't one of the issues with the 9/11 planes, that the transponders were turned off? i don't think that happened with the stewart plane.

was there ever a case before 9/11 of a commercial plane, with the transponders being turned off, being intercepted by military planes?

i honestly do not know.

tia

[JuniperLea]

14. I remember having that argument with Pubbies shortly after the destruction...

"That never really happens," they insisted. "That only happens in the movies."

I'm sick of the lies and deception.

[NYC_SKP]

20. Yeah. And, it was not one, not two, but four different flights over a long period of time.

Beyond any simple explanation.

[PacerLJ35]

25. I imagine this flight left their transponder on and didn't stray off the filed flight plan

making it far easier to intercept...

Fighters were scrambled on 9-11, and it wasn't a cut-and-dry case of "fly heading blah blah blah to intercept"...

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. Hmm. Why didn't they do this on 9/11?

[ManiacJoe]

8. They did.

It just happened that the response time was really bad on 9/11.

[Cheap_Trick]

24. And they went 1/3 speed to get there. nt

[PacerLJ35]

29. Why go full speed when you don't even have an intercept course?

[flyarm]

42. those planes could easily be "found" on basic radar..even though Transponders were turned off.

from a 33 yr flight crew of one of the airlines involved.

The radar might not be able to tell exact altitutude..but location..yes.

also Flight 11 had another Major airliner have to veer out of the way of that flight so that other major airline crew had the direct location of flight 11 prior to impact.

[PacerLJ35]

58. We can't always skin paint other traffic with our radar

and we have a much better radar than you probably had...and we're talking about a large distance to the targets too, with multiple other aircraft in the area (some of which were likely VFR traffic with no XPDR code). Flight 11 crashed fairly early in the entire sequence, and I don't care if you're doing Mach snot, you can't make up that much time short of flying in the space shuttle.

[flyarm]

68. ahh but the airline i was crew for for 33 years has radar back up to transponders on all aircraft

in the air.

So why did Norad not have co-ordinates on American Flight 11?????????

Because American Airlines has radar back up for all Aircraft in the Air!

And further..a TWA aircraft dodged Flight 11 in the air when Flight 11 was flying erratically to NY! The TWA crew would have had very close altitude co-ordinate on Flight 11 and its location!

[PacerLJ35]

73. Weather radar? I'm wondering what kind of "special" radar you had

The only radar I've used on any aircraft has been either a weather radar or a ground-mapping radar. It isn't used (never has been used) to identify itself for ATC purposes. The transponder is the only device on any aircraft I've flown (C-130E/H/J, Learjet 35, Beechjet 400, T-37, various light airplanes and various helicopters) that sends out any discrete signal for ATC identification purposes. The aircraft radar (on certain aircraft) can "find" other aircraft by skin paint, but that's not a very accurate way of identifying other aircraft unless you're flying formation with them and know what you're looking for (we can do that in the C-130J but it's not normal).

Even going with the idea that American airlines can find all their aircraft using radar, you'd have a hell of a time trying to declutter all the other crap out there and then transmit that information to the appropriate agency. You speak of flight 11...it was one of the first aircraft to hit anything, and that occurred while NORAD was still trying to figure out what the hell was going on. By the time people figured out it wasn't the "standard" hijacking and the aircraft were in fact being used to hit things, flight 11 was nearly at the objective and no fighter could possibly have intercepted it even if given exact intercept headings.

[JuniperLea]

16. They did... but got bogus directions...

And went in the opposite direction first.

Thank you Dick Cheney.

[PacerLJ35]

30. Bogus? Try ATC and the fighters weren't sure what direction to go in at first

[flyarm]

43. nonsense...and infactual. eom

[PacerLJ35]

60. I'm sure all that civilian airliner experience has you well schooled in fighter intercepts...

I've got plenty of friends who fly F-15s, F-16s, etc and none of them buy the 9/11 conspiracy theory.

[Zhade]

62. Talk is cheap. Why should we believe you?

NT!

[PacerLJ35]

63. But you'll believe the other guy because he claims he's a former airline pilot?

I'm a C-130 pilot in the Air Force. I know people that fly various types of aircraft...most of the fighter guys I know were friends from pilot training days. I find it funny you'll quickly accept the other guy's explanation but challenge me with a "why should we believe you" line.

I'll counter with a logical question...why would you challenge my authenticity and blindly accept someone else's?

[flyarm]

69. 33 years flying for American Airlines..to be exact, NYC based, now retired...after 9/11. eom

[PacerLJ35]

74. 14 years flying transport-category aircraft for the military

I know, I know, someone will jump on here and say "but he's got twice your time flying"...flying an airplane is flying an airplane. If you don't know what's going on by the 14 year mark, you should probably hang it up.

[ManiacJoe]

7. If necessary, shoot down the passenger plane.

While the chances of that need are extremely small, the last thing you want is a terrorist blowing up the plane over a densely populated area; better to down it over the ocean. Fighter escorts are standard operating procedure.

[BlueJac]

10. Just shoot everyone before they board the plane.....

:sarcasm:



didn't we scope their asses or view them all naked...what is wrong with TSA???

[eleny]

11. For Peter King....

TERRORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!

[BP2]

12. This is just plan getting ridiculous,

someones going to fuck up and accidentally shoot down a plane.

[ManiacJoe]

17. What leads you to that crazy conclusion?!?!?!

[shadowknows69]

39. Human nature does it for me. We're dumb, panicky animals.

[ManiacJoe]

49. The masses, sure.

Fighter pilots, not so much. Especially when they and their spouses often double as airline pilots.

[shadowknows69]

51. True that, but the people giving them orders still can be.

[Arctic Dave]

13. I just read about this on CNN website, the replies are hilarious.

[depakid]

22. The headline on CNN's site redirects to Fox "news" Oregon!

though some of the comments were pretty funny (even- or maybe especially "the OMG just keep us SAFE" and "must have been a democrat- charge and imprison him" ones).

[bluestateguy]

15. Airplanes and mentally ill people do not mix

I recommend alternatives for them to travel.

[SoapBox]

19. Ditto

...yes. Plain and simple.

People should be "permitted" to travel by air...others should be banned. Period.

There is something weird about air travel...certain people would not be allowed to be involved in many so called "normal" things in this country but they sure can get an airplane ticket.

[depakid]

18. More paranoia... and sensationalism for the media

Local "news" vans line up for the show.
-----------

No charges for Salem man whose behavior caused Hawaii-bound airliner to return to Portland

A man whose "concerning" behavior aboard a flight from Portland to Hawaii today caused the plane to turn around was released without being charged. The plane's captain decided to turn the plane around after the man "made threatening remarks and refused to store his carry-on bag," said Dwayne Baird, a Transit Security Association spokesman.

...The man, who was only identified as a 56-year-old Salem man, and his female companion were taken off Hawaiian Airlines Flight 39 when it returned to Portland International Airport around 1:20 p.m. They were questioned by the FBI, but were not arrested, said FBI spokeswoman Beth Anne Steele. The matter is being referred to the U.S. Attorney's office, she said.

...Two F-15 fighter jets, based at Portland International Airport, were asked to accompany the flight back to Portland, said Oregon Military Department spokesman Capt. Stephen Bomar. The man was not restrained during the flight, Steele said, but described his behavior as "concerning to the flight crew."

"In this day and age, any possible threat is taken very seriously," said Martha Richmond, a Port of Portland spokeswoman. "Today is a very good example of that."

Keoni Wagner, vice president of public affairs with Hawaiian Airlines, said that the passenger was being "uncooperative" with the crew. He added that planes may turn around for a variety of reasons, including domestic arguments, medical emergencies or interfering with crew members.

More: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/01/airliner_returns_to_portland_a.html

How long is it going to take before Americans realize how pathetic they've become?

[SlingBlade]

21. What the hell happened to those vounted

Air Marshall's ?

Jebus, The cost of scrambling those fighters could probably pay his salary for a year.

[SoapBox]

23. They should have to pay Hawaiian Airlines and all related Air Guard costs

...first, it is a federal offense to interfere with the operation of an aircraft OR in the duties of a crew member. Sounds like they did that!

...second, they should have to PAY all related costs of the diversion to Hawaiian Airlines and the other passengers, that were going to miss connections, cruise boats, hotel/transportation reservations, etc.

...third, they should have to PAY the Oregon Air National Guard and any/all related costs to them.

...fourth, they should have to PAY all FBI costs.

...fifth, they should have to PAY any and all cost that the U.S. Air Traffic Control system incurred.

...sixth, they should have to PAY any other airlines that may have been delayed due to the rerouting of the aircraft and any air diversions in the air space near them as well as landing.

THAT is what should happen to freaks and weirdos that are the cause of sh*t like this. PERIOD.

Any such events such as this are HUGE expenses to many companies and people. MAKE THEM PAY.

[depakid]

27. LOL- If that was a parody post- well done!

[SoapBox]

35. No parody at all...

...nope. No parody intended at all...I am absolutely dead serious.

The financial result of this entire event, to all those that I listed (and probably more), would probably run in at least the mid hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Again, the passengers that missed connections and timed events that they had paid for...And what about all the fuel that Hawaiian burned and then has to re-add to the aircraft? Food? Beverages? Ice? (all probably provided by contract caterers)...Do we know yet whether they were even able to depart again? Did the pilots have enough federally mandated duty time to perform the flight to Maui or were they going to have to wait to get new crew (obviously Hawaiian is based in...Hawaii...at least 5-6 hour flight from PDX.)

Who is going to pay for all of that?

There needs to be serious consequences for such criminal actions.

[depakid]

36. Then perhaps the "person(s) who ought to pay" are those who overreacted

AND those cowardly sorts who spur them on- and cause more reasonable folks a lot of needless expense and inconvenience.

[pissedoff01]

31. Okay. Proposed fine for refusing to store a carry-on = $1 TRILLION

[FarLeftFist]

26. Was the disruptor Rush Limbaugh?

[superconnected]

67. Naw, Ivana Trump.

[jwirr]

28. Are the airlines feeling the economic impact of the threats? Are

people still flying as much?

[pinniped]

32. Only 2 F15s were sent? A situation of this magnitude requires at least a squadron of F15s.

.

[Moochy]

33. "what exactly were the military jets going to do?"

shoot it down.

[Ian David]

34. Here's a photo of the passenger and his bag...

[Phoonzang]

53. Holy shit...that's exactly what popped into my head when I read this story..

:rofl:

[Stinky The Clown]

37. This was actually a shoot for a new reality show; "Tales of the Over Reactive"

[Algorem]

41. now when they say they're going to check your bag they really check your bag

'pecker checker' used to be an insult,now it's a federal job

it's nothing to look down on

[Javaman]

44. Frankly, I don't see the logic of having the fighter jets all...

Suppose this guy does take over the plane, what then? Are they afraid he will blow it up or crash it into something? So therefore, they will shoot it down? The result will be the same.

Kind of like using the death penalty on a murderer to prevent other murders.

Call me crazy.

[leftynyc]

45. I would imagine

if he got hold of the plane and they started heading towards a city or other population center, they would shoot it down. At that point, the people on the plane are out of luck and the concern goes to those on the ground.

[ManiacJoe]

50. Exactly correct.

The point is to be able to bring the plane down over an unpopulated area as possible should the need arise.

[depakid]

59. The level (and breadth) of cowardice among Americans in the 21st Century is just astonishing

People have become so obsessed with "bad guys" that they're afraid of their own shadows.

[ManiacJoe]

66. Not sure whay you are trying to suggest here.

Fighter escorts have been SOP since the 1970's.

[Sabriel]

47. Why no scrambled fighters for the Northwest over-fly?

That flight was unresponsive and off-course for quite a while, but no one bothered with that one.

Weird inconsistencies, which don't make me feel either "safe" or "protected."

[EFerrari]

56. Two hours.

Things that make you go "hmmmmmmmm".

[mnhtnbb]

48. Probably had his own supply of rum in his carry-on and didn't want

to pay to have a couple of drinks during the flight.

[superconnected]

54. Shoot it down if it was deterimined the pilot was no longer in control of the plan and so it may

crash into a building. I don't have a problem with this since there have been plenty of hijackings in the last 40 years.

[Art_from_Ark]

71. So how many of those hijacked plan(e)s

have crashed into buildings?

[superconnected]

72. Only 3 but, since it's a known terrorist tactic now, they have to take hijacked

planes very seriously for the people on the ground now.

It's severely foolish to allow planes that are hijacked to run around our air space, let alone planes that are highly suspect for getting hijacked. The decision to send the fighter jets in this case was a very good idea.

If this plane was hi-jacked everyone would be saying, why didn't they shoot it down, instead of attacking(stupidly) the decision to watch it and decide if it would need to be shot down.

[krabigirl]

65. talk about over-reacting. I won't fly again. this is so lame.

[BadGimp]

70. I live on the flight path and wow...

I live right on the Columbia west of the Portland Vancouver bridge, and when those jets took off it freaked me out. I am used to the commercial planes landing mostly and some taking off. I live far enough away form PDX that I don't get it too bad. But the National Guard Fighters are another mater entirely.

When they went screaming overhead they were in a pair and they had on full afterburners. It was something to behold. They never take off and do that so I wondered why... but then I remembered my lunch was getting cold.

Your tax dollars at work.