TVE EXIT POLL: Partido Socialista Obrero Español wins elections in Spain!

[arcos]

This is just breaking... Polls just closed and they are announcing PSOE is winning between 154 and 158 seats, while the Partido Popular is winning between 150 and 154 seats.

CiU (local Catalunya) 10-12, United Left between 9 and 11, others +/-25.

Worst case scenario PP and PSOE, they tie.

TVE is Televisión Española, and is government funded.

[rumguy]

1. I knew it!

Fall-out from dubya's war...

[schultzee]

6. I hope everyone who supported him is voted out! 6 more troops dead!

[Jacobin]

7. I predicted it too, although I thought the margin would be higher

Great news!!!

Governments who refuse to act on the will of the people get their asses kicked.

:bounce:

[CerealMurderer]

37. WIll the bombers declare victory?

The bombers demand the gov oust their leader and put the leftist in. Guess what...they get what they wanted. Presto! Instant results from train bombings. Expect to see many many more now that it has been shown to work.

[Junkdrawer]

39. Politicizing terror sucks no matter who does it..

Look at Israel. :(

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CerealMurderer]

48. Good lord, can't you comment on the subject?

What do you think about the bombers declaring victory?

[alcuno]

70. Why would you think this would be a victory for the bombers?

Aznar went down because of his support for the war in Iraq; support that he did not have from the citizens of Spain. I don't see why you would want to give a victory to murdering thugs.

[Jacobin]

43. Will the bombings of Iraq by Bush re-select him as president?

That was obviously his intention, although its sure has backfired on his ass, now hasn't it.

Do we not learn a lesson from that as well?

Hope not to see you again soon.

[CerealMurderer]

49. What's wrong with examine this objectively?

Why close your eyes to the fact that the bombers are getting what they want?

[rumguy]

52. Hey - it's the Popular Party's fault....

Ninety-percent of Spain OPPOSED their involvement in the Iraq fiasco...

[CerealMurderer]

59. So they DESERVED to be bombed?

You're saying that the ruling party is to blame for the bombings? I'm sure the real bombers approve of your passing the blame off of them.

[rumguy]

64. typical response

They deserver to lose - can't you get it through your skull that in a democracy, when a government takes an unpopular route opposed by 90 percent of the population, well they deserve to lose the next election, and probably will....

Your pathetic attempt to try and tie opposition to the Iraq fiasco to some kind of support for Al Queda is truly despicable and monstrous.

[alcuno]

72. The ruling party is to blame for either being duped or trying to dupe

their own citizens. I have friends in Barcelona and Madrid who tell me that the Spaniards have been very angry with Aznar's government, all bombings aside.

[NV1962]

53. Well, since you insist...

The most objective observation here would be, at this point, that the bombers are getting away with jack shitt - and neither is Aznar, in essence for going against the will of 90% of the people he governed.

It's quite the spanking that the former majority is now gone.

[maxrandb]

71. You have got to be kidding me

This does not mean that "the bombers won". This means that the PEOPLE of Spain won. I guess you wouldn't understand that though. Maybe you think we should go over and replace the Spanish govt just like we did in Haiti and maybe Venezuela.

Funny how the re-puritan party is all about Democracy, except for when Democracy doesn't work for them.

When Jr goes down hard in Nov, it won't mean the terrorist won. It will mean that the people have had enough of this joke of a pResident, are tired of being controlled by fear, and realize that a society is judged by how they care for the least fortunate among them.

Oh, it will also mean that NEVER AGAIN will a Bush ever darken the door of the WH.

[0rganism]

90. Why would radical islamic terrorists want leftists in government?

That's absolutely insane. Do you have any source to cite that indicates the terrorists demanded a leftist government? Al Qaeda couldn't even cooperate with the secular Ba'ath party in Iraq, ferchrissakes!

If it were ETA claiming the bombing and making demands, then I could see it. A leftist gov't might be more likely to accomodate a measure of Basque independence. But ETA DENIES involvment, and Al Qaeda has claimed it. Your scenario seems improbable in the extreme, Fox News bullshit aside.

Far more likely, the 90% of Spanish citizens who dissed Spanish participation in American imperialism turned out to get rid of the asshole Aznar. Their victory will be a triumph for democracy.

[dax]

91. Where did you hear that bull* ? why are you posting it here?

How about the people of Spain don't want to be part of endless wars so they turned out the Bush pals in the government which will make them safer from bombings (and maybe they can concentrate on fixing up SPain)

[SoCalDem]

2. Aznar should have paid attention last year when 90% said NO..

[Jacobin]

10. Great Pic SoCal

they remembered that their "leader" ignored the will of 90% of the people and they got burned.

Excellent Excellent news.

[darkstar]

18. Yep, amazing pic, SoCalDem

all around. Thanx. Now my desktop image.

Hey jacobin! :hi:

[Jacobin]

24. Halloooo over there

Big thunderstorm here this morning. Has it made it your way yet?

Haven't seen you on here lately. You must be busy.

:hi:

[SoCalDem]

19. Tee-Hee .. I "altered" it a bit

[Jacobin]

23. Its EVEN better now!!

Thanks.

:bounce:

[CatWoman]

57. LOL

I wanna be just like SoCal when I grow up :D

[DinahMoeHum]

14. . . .AND he couldn't protect his populace from terrorists anyway.

His support for * may well have "brought them on"


:evilfrown:

[CerealMurderer]

51. And now the new leader won't need to worry about another attack

Now that the bombers got what they wanted peace should break out all over Spain.

[SoCalDem]

61. Geeeez.. Go stab Cap'n Crunch or Count Chocula

:)

[CerealMurderer]

62. How to feel about the bombers getting what they wanted?

It concerns me that it will set a standard for voters to cave to the demands of terrorists. I just hope it doesn't happen here.

[lastliberalintexas]

67. Actually,

if the bombing had any effect, it was probably to HELP Aznar. Prior to the bombing and election, it's my understanding that Aznar's party looked like they would suffer a much more humiliating defeat. But the confusion/doubt over whether this was really Al Quaeda or ETA may have helped Aznar, resulting in the closer results.

It's ridiculous to say that an election which was likely to have turned out this way anyway is "caving" to the terrorists.

[bucknaked]

15. Rough translation...

It (THIS PICTURE) cost us over 200 lives (deaths).

[MuseRider]

34. Good Lord SoCalDem

he looks just like my brother in that picture! I like your change posted below. Nice one.

[caledesi]

44. Great pic SoCal. Wish I could be a beautiful protester.

Is she pretty or what?

[SoCalDem]

45. She reminds me of a reporter.. cannot think of her name now

she used to be on msnbc I think..

help me out here.. you know who I mean.. It's an unusual name

[5thGenDemocrat]

83. Maria Bartiromo?

That would be my guess.
John
Worked on the Bay City Times for four years. The newsroom was packed with beautiful reporters. Handsome ones, too.

[Art_from_Ark]

88. If my rudimentary Spanish is correct,

the poster in the picture is implying that Spain has lost 200 soldiers in Iraq. Is that true?

[Il_Coniglietto]

92. I think she means the 200 deaths from the train bombings

That's roughly the number of lives lost.

[alcuno]

3. Wow. I was just reading through an article in Spanish that said

turnout was up and that would bode well for the Socialists. I have no idea what the Socialists Workers Party even is in Spain.

[arcos]

5. They are center-left,,,

They're socialdemocrats, more or less in the same way the French Socialist Party is.

[Sliverofhope]

4. What does this mean for Aznar?

Is he a PM or a president?

Good.

Bush
Blair
A----
Berlusconi
Howard
Koizumi

One down.

[arcos]

9. He is Prime Minister

he didn't run for reelection, so his hand picked succesor lost.

[Renew Deal]

8. What about Prime Minister?

[arcos]

11. they have a parliamentary system...

Congress elects the Prime Minister, just like in Britain and Germany

[alcuno]

28. If the Socialist's win, Aznar's "handpicked" successor is out.

[NV1962]

47. He is PM, but presides gov't cabinet, hence title "presidente"

No one calls him primer ministro.

[bucknaked]

12. Blair must take HEED!!!

Shades of things to come???

[calimary]

36. Intriguing. You get in bed with bush, you take it in the shorts.

Our "fearless" MISleader's "Reverse Midas Touch" at work. Everything he touches turns to shit. Our economy. Our soldiers' lives. Our jobs. Our middle class. Our rights. Our civil liberties. Our privacy. Our children's education. Our health care. Our seniors' safety net. Our standing in the world. And now, Aznar's transition hopes. Yeah, per that "sweetened" photo - I wonder who's next... I know who I'd nominate!

[Jacobin]

41. Maybe the dingbats will learn that the bribes aren't worth it

We can only hope.

[Flagg]

13. AWOL, Poodle, Berlusconi, Howard....

you're next !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DinahMoeHum]

16. Tee hee. First domino to fall. . .

n/t

:kick:

[still_one]

17. Does that mean we need to attack Spain?

[Jacobin]

21. Quick!!! Must re-name "Spanish Harlem"

They are no longer "with us".....they must be "against us". Pretzledent Bush makes it so easy for me to think!!!!

:-(

[Dr Fate]

31. Lets go to Mexico and get some "Freedom Flies" n/t

n/t

[lostnfound]

20. Great news! But somewhere back at Diebold, a technician is saying 'oops'.

[Jacobin]

22. On TV this morning, they were writing on paper ballots and

stuffing them in boxes.

Maybe the BBV isn't everywhere in Spain yet?

[Junkdrawer]

27. ES&S did a trial last June...

http://www.essvote.com/index.php?section=press_item&press_id=56

But even with paper ballots, there still can be mischief with the vote tabulating software unless strict checks are in place.

[Junkdrawer]

35. Don't count the vote technicians out yet...

Even with paper ballots, there still can be mischief with the vote tabulating software unless strict checks are in place. See:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm

[IndianaGreen]

25. BBC: Spain poll result 'neck and neck' (19:23 GMT)

According to the Spanish newspaper El Pais, 3 separate news organizations are declaring 3 different results:

Sondeos a pie de urna: TVE da la victoria al PSOE, Tele5 y Antena3 al PP

http://www.elpais.es/

Here is the BBC:

Spain poll result 'neck and neck'
Last Updated: Sunday, 14 March, 2004, 19:23 GMT

Voting has ended in Spain's general election overshadowed by claims that al-Qaeda carried out Madrid's bomb attacks that killed 200 people.

Early exit polls suggest the ruling Popular Party and the opposition Socialists are running neck and neck.

Some figures indicate the government is just ahead, others that the Socialists have the lead.

Voter turnout had been high, with many people spurred to cast their ballots in defiance of the bombers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3511280.stm

[alanw]

26. Careful

Telecinco is reporting different results from a different poll here: http://www.informativos.telecinco.es/

TV Catalunya is reporting the same numbers as TVE here: http://www.telenoticies.com/eleccions2004/

The real fly in the ointment is going to be the nationalist CiU (Convergence and Union) party, which will likely form a coalition with the PP and allow them to continue wreaking havoc.

Either way, this is a slap in the face to the PP and an indictment of their policies.

Just now, Telecinco is reporting that in terms of actual votes it appears that PP will lose 14 seats, with 169 seats, to the PSOE's 151. PP needed 176 to "win" a majority.

-alan in sitges

[Jacobin]

33. Hi Alan

and welcome to DU!!! :hi: :hi:

and Thanks for the explanation on possible meanings.

[alanw]

38. Thanks!

Thanks Jacobin! I've been here for years but just started posting.

FYI, as the results come in, the projections on Telecinco are jumping all over the place. At the bottom of the screen a second ago, it said, "It's going to be a long night."

Nonetheless, I have a party to attend! You can see how Catalunya votes here: http://www.telenoticies.com/eleccions2004/aut/09.htm :)

[NV1962]

46. Benvingut, Alan!

That was from Gabriel Elorriaga, PP's campaign director, who predicted a long elections night.

Welcome aboard. :)

[alanw]

55. Grácies, NV1926!

Estic molt content aquesta nit!

Or close to that, anyway. I´m only on my third week of Catalan classes :)

-alan in sitges

[calimary]

60. Welcome to DU! Thanks for weighing in. This is interesting!

[Renew Deal]

78. Are there 351 delegates?

[arcos]

80. 351 members of congress n/t

[MSchreader]

29. There will be no tie

Izquiera Unida will likely form a coalition with the PSOE, and form the new government.

Martin

[NV1962]

30. Let's not chant victory yet...

Exit polls aren't unanimous, but a majority of them point to a very close result, with PSOE eking just ahead...

Oddly enough, it's public broadcaster TVE (which is heavily tilted towards the governing party) that predicts most clearly a win for PSOE:



However, even if those were the results, a coalition between PSOE and Izquierda Unida (a combo of the former Communist Party and Greens) wouldn't be enough to form a majority. In that case, they'd have to enlist ERC as well - a more "radical" Catalan party, that'll push for a constitutional amendment so as to render Spain a federal (like Germany) government...

It's very early, but that seems to lie ahead now.

[Kellanved]

50. interesting

Thanks for the insight, I had not known that the Catalans might have a joker role (I was somewhat surprised about the extend of the Catalan national identity expressed by the people in Barcelona a few years ago - great city).

Well, while I like the German federal system, one thing has to be said: it sucks to be a federation in the EU. The EU only knows member nations and has no grasp whatsoever of the the idea of independent self-governed sub-nations.
An excellent example is the possible action against Germany because of the debt: over half of the debt was made by states and towns, entities not under the control of the federal government. Yet, should the EU decide to demand one, the fine would have to be paid in full by the federation. That is neither fair, nor helpful.
And it is made worse by the fact that large parts of the German media seem to be unaware that Germany is a federal nation as well. So it's entirely normal for Governors from states with reckless budgets to attack the federal Government about the nation's debt - with their very own debts making up a large part of it.

[RamboLiberal]

32. Story from ABC - great photo

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040314_598.html

Driven by anger over Spain's worst terror attack, voters flooded polling stations Sunday, many vowing to punish the government for backing the U.S.-led war in Iraq and making their country a target for al-Qaida.

Two hours before polls were to close, 63 percent of registered voters had cast ballots, a 7.5 percent increase over four years ago, Spain's electoral commission said.

<snip>

"The Popular Party has made me lose faith in politics," said Juan Rigola, 23, a biologist in Barcelona. "It deserves to lose and to see the Spanish people turn against them."

<snip>

"I wasn't planning to vote, but I am here today because the Popular Party is responsible for murders here and in Iraq," said Ernesto Sanchez-Gey, 48, who voted in Barcelona.

<snip>

A handful of young protesters screamed "murderer" at Mariano Rajoy, the ruling party candidate for prime minister, as he cast his vote in an elementary school outside Madrid. "We did not want to go to war!" they shouted.

<snip>

As Aznar voted in Madrid, some bystanders cheered him while others shouted, "Manipulator!"

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

58. Wow you mean their guy is ALLOWED to hear

protestors? What a different world THAT must be.

Sigh.

Meanwhile our naked Emperor is getting fitted for some new "clothes"...

[Auntie Bush]

75. He pays thousands of $$$ for each suit. To bad we can't see them.

[eablair3]

42. this is real interesting developments - New Gov't in Spain?

here's a current article up at

Exit Polls Show Incumbents Losing Spain
4 minutes ago


MADRID, Spain - Spain's governing party was losing a large number of seats in Sunday's parliamentary elections, exit polls showed, opening the way for a possible victory by the opposition Socialists.


Voter turnout was high following bombings in Madrid that killed 200 people, with many voters saying they wanted to punish the government for supporting the Iraq (news - web sites) war and making Spain a target for al-Qaida.


An Eco Consulting poll on state TV showed the Socialists close to winning the race for the 350-seat Congress of Deputies, with 154-158 seats against 150-154 for the ruling Popular Party, which had 183 seats in the last legislature.

snip

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=518&e=1&u=/ap/20040314/ap_on_re_eu/spain_elections_polls

[Nancy Waterman]

54. So will this mean they drop out of the coalition of the willing?

Will they pull their troops out of Iraq? That would really upset the Bush Cabal.

[Robbien]

56. Spanish Support for War on Terror Will Remain Strong, says Powell

on Voice of America radio. Mr. Powell says he believes there will be no lessening of support either in Spain or the rest of Europe for the U.S.-led war on terrorism.
Mr. Powell said Spain has been on "the right side of the issue" with regard to both terrorism and Iraq, and he said he hopes the Spanish people "will continue to move in that direction, and vote in that direction."

Please Spain show Mr Powell how wrong he is.

[Kellanved]

65. Oh, I'm pretty sure that he's right

"...he believes there will be no lessening of support either in Spain "

There is almost none popular support - the few RWers supporting the war now, will continue to do so, no matter what.

[Malva Zebrina]

84. right--take a good hard look Powell

those are people P-E-O-P-L-E who live in a democracy, Powell. You know--they go to the polls and they vote in the freedom democracy demands--and they did not vote for your guy, it appears. What are you going to do? Punish Spain now? Put some kind of sanctions on them?
I would remind you POwell, that Australian citizens also took to the streets to protest Howard's complicity with Bush. However it seems the Aussie pilots refused to bomb civilian targets when told to do so, at least forty times. They may have saved their country from a terrorist attack.

No Powell--it is Bush's fault. His failed and stupid foreign policies cause the damage--hope you go down with him--you have prostituted yourself for the personal gains it brings you and your son who was handed a neat little job in Bush's fascist regime. Proud?

They took to the streets by the millions to object to Aznar kissing the coward Bush's ass at the great big meeting in the Azores that was attended by and conglomerate of--ta da-- three countries--no one else. Blair, Bush and Asnar. It was a flop, but nevertheless Aznar was honkey dorye in love with Bush, no matter what his people said. Further, he sent troops to Iraq , blatantly wearing a badge of the ancient order of St. James de Compostela

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/aug2003/spai-a12.shtml

<snip?

The triangular top and arrow-like arms of the cross have become a symbol of the liquidation of the Muslims who were finally driven out of Spain after 800 years of fighting by the reconquest in 1492. This was also the start of the period of colonialist expansion by Spain’s Catholic monarchy.

Nothing like shoving it in the face of the conquored country eh?

[tlcandie]

63. The lesson in all this .. ...

You live by the sword, you die by it. You lie, you die. Everything comes back around. You can't lie, cheat, steal, kill, maime, and torture and not reap the rewards short and long.

Short might make you feel better temporarily or line your wallet or even give you a bump on the old proverbial ladder, but the long term ones are the ones that are killers!

Always consequences for actions! Choose badly, you loose! He whose ass you kiss will most likely well .. you fill in the rest!

90% of the people did NOT want this war and Aznar went against his own people to do what benefited him either because of his greed and power lust or because he was blackmailed.

Politicians need to start living a different standard. We can only hope and pray that the US will awaken! Makes me so excited to see the people win!

I've always been taught that if you can't or don't learn it the easy way, you WILL learn it the hard way.

Terrorism is the hard way...easy way is to remember the golden rule that is a common thread throughout ALL the earth and that is do unto others as you would have them do unto you; treat your neighbor as you would want to be treated.

Simple respect and dignity. Our world is sadly void of this for the most part.

Terrorism may seem to win if you want to look at the black and white of it, but in the end the people of the earth win. Look up close or stand back and get the broader view...all about perspective!

[freeminder]

66. update : result with 34 % of the vote count : PSOE 164 seats, PP 135

!!!

See the nice pie chart (updates all the time)here

This looks great. Chimpy, give a call to Aznar and ask him what it feels like :-)

on edit : the suggestion earlier in this thread, that PP + CIU could have a majority, is not flying with results like this :-) Actually, PSOE is just seats away from a majority.

[freeminder]

68. and the P.Cannabis (sic) only scored 0.07 %

see further down on previous link.

P.CANNABIS - 8075 votes 0.07 %

LOL

[darkstar]

69. Thanx for link and update: PSOE 160 / PP 140 at 48.5 % n/t

[freeminder]

73. 21:49 PSOE 165 PP 144, 61 % counted n/t

[freeminder]

74. Pointer to another thread with live updates and interpretation :

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x421648

[rocktivity]

76. Fox, of course is spinning this into a victory for Al Qadea

via voters feeling intimidated by the bombing. No mention of the 90% opposition.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Renew Deal]

77. I've watched them from time today.

Their wheels are spinning. I don't think they know how to handle it. They are definitely telling half of half of the story.

[yardwork]

79. It suggests that even if W pulls an "October surprise" it won't work.

Conventional wisdom has it that if there is another terrorist attack in the U.S., it would help W's reelection.

In Spain we have just seen the opposite effect.

The implication to me is that people worldwide are sick of the violence and want to try a different way.

[SoCalDem]

82. One important difference, I am sad to say..

The Spaniards take to the streets and back up their action with votes.. Here in the US, we tend to be more wishy-washy. I hope we learned our lesson in 2000..

[Junkdrawer]

86. Just posted this on another thread...

Spaniards were 90% against going into Iraq and exposing themselves to danger for no apparent reason. Here, the media has allowed the "Iraq was a battle in the war on terror" lie to permeate the electorate. As perverse as it is, the electorate would see an attack as proof that the Iraq invasion was necessary.

Stupid? Yes, but that's the way it is.

[Lori Price CLG]

81. That is AWESOME!!

The Socialists win!!

:bounce: :party:

Terrorist/Fascist Bush would lose in November, as well-- if it wasn't for Diebold.

:)-Lori Price

[Zomby Woof]

85. So very very sweet

:toast:

[Rochambeau]

87. The way they tried to cheat...

an ultimate time about the ETA thing while the nation was mourning and suffering was absolutly disgusting ! You lie, you die, so die and go to hell bastards !! And thanx Spain for that great lesson of DEMOCRACY !! Thanx !!!

VIVA ESPANA VIVA !
In Memoriam 11.03.04

[Jack Rabbit]

89. Good news

Bush
Blair
Aznar
Howard

[alanw]

93. Summing up...

I just wanted to add:

VISCA L'ESQUERRA!
VISCA LES SOCIALISTAS!
VISCA CATALUNYA!

It's been a very good night! I went to my neighborhood watering hole and people were buying shots for the whole bar all night long. So many happy people here!