Bank killer's (borderline mentally retarded) death sentence upheld (5 killed)

[Omaha Steve]

Source: Omaha World Herald

By Paul Hammel LINCOLN -- The Nebraska Supreme Court today upheld the death sentence for Erick Vela, one of four men convicted in the 2002 slayings of five people inside a Norfolk, Neb., bank.

Vela, now 29, raised several issues in his appeal, including that he was borderline mentally retarded and should not face the death penalty -- state law bars the execution of those who are mentally retarded.

But the Supreme Court, in a 5-1 decision, rejected those arguments.

Vela was one of three men who walked into a U.S. Bank branch, purportedly to rob it. Four bank employees and a customer were shot in rapid succession, and the robbers fled without taking any money.

Read more: http://www.omaha.com/article/20100108/NEWS01/100109723

[katkat]

1. good riddance n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

2. Yeah - fuck him, anyway.

Hey - I've got an idea. Let's just round up all the retards and just go ahead and execute them, too. If they haven't killed anyone yet, it's only because they're too stupid to have thought of it yet. And the fucking crazies - execute them too. You never know what they're going to do, and it will way reduce the prison population - save us a lot of money.

[Deep13]

4. Well, that's a pretty disingenuous reaction.

Seems to me this case revolves around the fact that the defendant murdered five people. Kind of hard to have a murder case without murder.

[RaleighNCDUer]

7. The defendant shot one person, and was apparently implicated in

a previous killing elsewhere. Be that as it may, he was rated as having an IQ of 66, which is barely functional. That means he can reason about as well as an 8 year old. If he reads at all, it's on about a 2nd grade level. He is, for all intents and purposes, a child.

but never mind that.

[Deep13]

10. Okay, he shot one and was complicit in four.

The article does not say how the defense knows he's retarded. "He was rated...." What does that mean?

"One of three psychological experts hired by Vela's attorneys concluded he was mildly mentally retarded, with an overall IQ of 66. But three other experts, hired by Madison County Attorney Joe Smith, concluded otherwise and were critical of the procedures used to reach the 66 score."

Seems to me that it is a jury questions and that the jury did not believe he is retarded. He also has a prior homicide.

[Rebubula]

5. Now...

...THAT was a retarded response.


But since you did not murder 5 people, it is not a problem. See how that works?

[cali]

17. whoa there. I'm firmly against the dp in all cases

but no one was saying anything like what you're saying. Furthermore, "borderline retarded" is a fairly meaningless description.

[Deep13]

3. Was this diagnosis of retardation the result of an IQ test?

To score high on an IQ test, isn't it necessary for the person taking the test to want to do well? I think that's why the courts have always viewed claims of mental retardation by capital defendants with such skepticism. A defendant has the marbles to plan and execute a premeditated murder, has no history of mental deficiencies beyond maybe some minor depression, but suddenly after being caught and taking an IQ test he's mentally retarded.

[RaleighNCDUer]

8. Psychologists can guage IQ in ways other than standardized IQ

tests. He was one of a gang - there is nothing that says he did any of the planning. And, robbing a bank without taking any money IS pretty good evidence of not being all there.

Besides, he was undoubtedly tested when he was in school - presumably he dropped out at some point, but before then he'd have been tested, and that is when they'd have gotten an initial IQ rating, when he was in 2nd or 3rd grade. For him (or his defense) to make the claim of mental retardation there would have to be pre-existing evidence, and there is ALWAYS pre-existing evidence because of our public school system. The only way he could have avoided testing early in grade school is if he never attended at all.

[Deep13]

9. Assuming there was some way to access a 2nd grade IQ test...

...how much validity would it have for an adult? Anyway, the defense can claim anything it wants. If it has a post-arrest IQ test, that is a sufficient basis to raise the claim.

[RaleighNCDUer]

11. People do not get smarter as they get older - they just get more educated (sometimes).

IQ does not test knowledge, but capacity. The ability to understand and retain information. A person's IQ test in 3rd grade will always come within a few points of a test in HS, and post-school. That is because it is the person's aptitude which is tested, not his accumulated knowledge or skills.

I remember reading about this case about a year ago, I guess. Vela objected to the IQ defense because he didn't want people to think he was a dummy. His lawyers offered it over his objections because, after all, how smart can you be if you reject an argument that proves you to be too dumb to be executed?

FYI, the prosecutors can ALSO claim anything it wants - and they regularly do. Lying to obtain a conviction is SOP. I'm sure that if the DA wanted, they could find an expert who would declare that Vela is a fucking genius who is only pretending to be retarded, as evidenced by his clever device of not wanting to be called retarded.

[Deep13]

15. "FYI, the prosecutors can ALSO claim anything it wants - and they regularly do."

That's flat out bullshit. Of the three kinds of lawyers involved in a criminal case, judge, defense and prosecutor, only one of them has the responsibility to find the objective truth. That's the D.A. Judges are too, but their role as neutrals makes them gate-keepers, not advocates. They have no specific end-result except to see that everyone follows the rules. The defense counsel's job is to get his client off. Period. Not justice. Not the truth. In fact his or her job most of the time is to keep the truth from getting to the jury. If anyone has an incentive to lie, it's a defense lawyer. And too many of them do. It's one thing to put forward a plausible defense based on the evidence. It's quite another to fabricate one out of thin air. And I see it constantly and they are never held responsible for it.

In addition to zealously advocating for his or her client, a duty shared by defense lawyers, the prosecutor is also charged with finding the truth and seeking substantial justice. This office, the DA I work for, will not prosecute a marginal case. We have no reason to do so. Getting convictions is not our job. If he did prosecute innocent people, he would not have been in office all this time because he would have made too many enemies. He has enough enemies by being a D in an R county. He and most of his ADAs would be making a lot more money in the private sector and with a lot more job security, but we do this because we care about justice. We aren't always right and I can't guarantee that ever DA or ADA in the country is honest. For the most part, we are the most honest and most committed to justice people in the justice system.

So your "lying is SOP" is a malicious, ignorant load of horse shit.

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. Oh, yeah, I'm just making it up.

http://projects.publicintegrity.org/PM/

[bertman]

6. "Four bank employees and a customer were shot in rapid succession, and the robbers

FLED WITHOUT TAKING ANY MONEY."

Sounds like they were all retarded to me.

:evilgrin:

[winyanstaz]

12. I am not for the death sentance but he does need to go away for good.

[proteus_lives]

13. Simple solutions.

If he's not retarded then execute him. He deserves it.

If he's retarded then lock him up for the rest of his life. He's murderous and he needs to be locked up forever.

[pattmarty]

14. The "point" is being entirely missed here. It's the fucking death............

............penalty. Retarded, how far retarded, crazy doesn't make any difference. Eliminate the fucking death penalty and fix the fucked up prison system, THAT'S THE POINT.

[RaleighNCDUer]

18. Thank you. nt

[MicaelS]

20. No the "point" is five people were MURDERED by these scum

But there's no empathy for them is there? "Oh, boo-hoo-hoo, the murderer is being persecuted by the state...waaah."

Eliminate the fucking death penalty and fix the fucked up prison system, THAT'S THE POINT.

And how does THAT get justice for the people who were murdered and their survivors?

[pattmarty]

21. you're an idiot. Did I say these were good misunderstood little...........

.........boys? I don't have a problem with life w/o parole for murderers, rapists, and other violent criminals. Just because I'm a liberal and want to eliminate the death penalty (like all other western nations) and want to "fix" a dysfunctional prison system that makes me bad? Go back and whine with your "brothers" at worldnut daily and leave us sane people alone.

[LeftishBrit]

22. Same way as most developed countries nowadays - most have abolished the DP

The DP does not get justice for the survivors - it gets revenge (whether the survivors want it or not).

Its only justification would be if it deterred and prevented murders, and it clearly doesn't.

[greiner3]

19. "borderline mentally retarded"

So are most republicans.