Venezuela sent jets to intercept US plane - Chavez

[steven johnson]

Source: Reuters

CARACAS, Jan 8 (Reuters) - President Hugo Chavez said he ordered two F16 jets to intercept a U.S. military plane that twice violated Venezuelan airspace on Friday.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0826398020100109?type=marketsNews

[The abyss]

1. I can't get any text from that link

All I can get to pop is the headline.

Anybody get anything?

[Igel]

That's the text, complete and unexpurgated.

Assertion: Chavez said to intercept planes.
Presupposition 1: The planes existed.
Presupposition 2: Planes were US in nature.
Presupposition 3: Planes violated Venezuelan airspace.

[msongs]

2. who cares if Venezuela is short on electricity, we can intercept planes ... lol nt

[EFerrari]

3. You guys haven't had a blackout since, what, April?

Not counting Blackberries?

[Enrique]

5. even funnier

millions of people out of work, but the U.S. can send planes into Venezuela's airspace. :rofl:

[L. Coyote]

14. ten percet of the population on food stamps in USA, but we spend 50% of global military expense

They justifiably worry that we are insane!

[fascisthunter]

10. Who Cares if the US is short on fossil fuels, let's invade and occupy part of the middle east

I bet you think that's funny too. Only our soldiers being abused like this don't!

Get some perspective.

[Dr.Phool]

4. NSA running ferret ops?

Or somebody trying to cause a provocation.

[pattmarty]

6. At this point, I don't see a "story". Maybe developing??

[Lone_Star_Dem]

7. A bit more here on this and the alleged collusion of the Netherlands with the US against Venezuela

Brandishing a photo of the plane, which he described as a P-3, Chavez said the overflight was the latest incursion in Venezuelan skies by the U.S. military from its bases on the Netherlands' Caribbean islands and from neighboring Colombia.

"They are provoking us ... these are warplanes," he said.

<snip>

Chavez said the F-16s escorted the U.S. plane away after two incursions lasting 15 and 19 minutes each.

The perceived threat of U.S. intervention has become a central element of Chavez's political discourse and a rallying cry for his supporters.

Foes say Latin America's loudest U.S. critic is hyping the idea of a foreign threat to distract Venezuelans from domestic problems such as economic recession, rampant crime and inadequate public services.

The socialist leader surprised the diplomatic world in December when he accused the Netherlands of abetting potential offensive action against his government by granting U.S. troops access to its islands close to Venezuela.

More: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0826424620100109?type=marketsNews

[Wilms]

8. I see it slightly differently.

The perceived threat of Chavez's political discourse has become a central element and a rallying cry for U.S. interventionists and their supporters.

Foes say Western media is the loudest critic of Venezuela and is hyping the idea of a foreign threat to distract Americans from domestic problems such as economic recession, rampant financial sector and human rights crime, and inadequate public services.

So who is projecting?

[carla]

13. This differs from the USA...

how?"...domestic problems, such as economic recession, rampant crime and inadequate public services"...?
Sounds like almost ALL of the USA...Stop making the same mistake with Venezuela that you made with Cuba. You want Pres. Chavez to fail? Don't instigate reasons for him to become draconian in his governance...Castro has survived so long because the US is there to serve as boogeyman. Stupid foreign policy = stupid governor.

[Flaneur]

9. Washington denies it in updated Reuters story:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0826424620100109

<snip>

Chavez said the F-16s escorted the U.S. plane away after two incursions lasting 15 and 19 minutes each.

A spokesman for the the U.S. Defense Department denied Chavez's assertion, saying in an e-mail: "We can confirm no U.S. military aircraft entered Venezuelan airspace today. As a matter of policy we do not fly over a nation's airspace without prior consent or coordination."

Senior Obama administration officials said the U.S. Southern Command was unaware of any incident involving U.S. government aircraft in Venezuelan airspace on Friday.

<snip>

[ronnie624]

12. When I consider US policy doctrines regarding Latin America,

the glaringly obvious hostility toward the Bolivarian government, the U.S. military build-up in Colombia and the Caribbean, and above all, the well documented history of US intervention in Latin America, it's rather difficult to give credence to any denials by the U.S. Defense Department, especially when they lie to us all the time.

I think they're lying now, too.

And peeeeww! The stench of propaganda from that article is overpowering.

[ShortnFiery]

20. Yes, the future Lesson Plans for Propaganda via Public Affairs Courses at the SOA are going

undergo major reviews over this breech. :evilgrin:

[boppers]

31. Typo in your propaganda poster...

WHINSEC, not WHISEC

[Socal31]

11. Uh oh!

Go ahead and draw on that $5bln line of credit from the Russians!

[WriteDown]

15. Let's see some photos Hugo!

Surely those F-16's are equipped with camera systems. Or how about shooting one of these planes down?

[Enrique]

16. so you don't believe there was a plane? n/t

[WriteDown]

17. I believe my eyes. nt

[Enrique]

19. if Chavez produces photos, what will you think?

my prediction, if he does show photos, people will shift from denying any incident to denying we were in Venezuelan airspace.

Then, if it's proven that we were in Venezuelan airspace, people will shift from denying that to defending our right to be there, based on how much they dislike Chavez.

[WriteDown]

22. Let's first see the photos. Then we can start looking at the shifts. nt

[hack89]

26. I can download pictures of a P3 from the internet

and make any claim I want. There is no way to collaborate this story one way or the other.

[Mudoria]

18. No I don't...

[Enrique]

21. what if Chavez produces photos

and what if it's proven that there was a plane, and we did invade Venezuelan airspace, what will you think?

[Mudoria]

23. He can't produce what doesn't exist...

why would they bother? He's no threat to anyone except Venezuelan's. I'd say we have enough irons in the fire to be bothering with Chavez who is relatively unimportant.

[ronnie624]

24. As president of the country with the largest oil reserves in the Western Hemisphere,

Chavez is very important, not just relatively so. Even more importantly, he is diverting profits away from some of the most powerful corporations on earth, and using them to improve civil society for the working class and poor, and to effect change to an entrenched system. That really pisses off a lot of powerful people. Powerful, wealthy people have always resisted revolutionary change to the status quo. The status quo keeps them powerful and wealthy. That's why they bother.

The Pentagon, in its budget request last year, spelled out exactly what its mission was in South America. It included things like, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance, and preparation for full spectrum military operations against countries in Latin America considered "hostile" by U.S. political and corporate elites. The U.S. government has recently secured the use of three airbases in Colombia and some others in the Caribbean, undoubtedly for the purposes elucidated by the Pentagon. The context for this, is a hundred years of intensive U.S. intervention in Latin America, for the purpose of controlling resources, all meticulously recorded by voluminous historical documentation.

Denial is irrational.

[PacerLJ35]

27. The aircraft flying out of Curacao aren't spying on Venezuela

They are flying around the southern Carib looking for drug traffic.

[Judi Lynn]

38. We don't doubt your superior secret knowlege.

There have also never been covert operations, all the Latin American citizens are making things up about their massacres, torture, disappearances, murders, terror they've endured so long.

You are so right to be a Latin America suffering denier. God bless you real good.

[PacerLJ35]

39. Sure, tell me all about the current covert ops in Venezuela...

I'm waiting...but I'll probably wait a long time. The US doesn't have covert military ops, massacres, torture teams and other folks running around Venezuela...except in your paranoid version of it all.

I've been in various parts of South America...at the request and approval of the governments there. Your version of events happened three decades ago. It's a different time, although you and Hugo apparently are still stuck in the past.

[ChangoLoa]

29. Those corporations have taken peanuts from venezuelan oil in the last 40 to 50 years. nt

[Judi Lynn]

30. He did produce a photo, for sure.

JANUARY 9, 2010.Venezuela Says Its Jets Intercepted U.S. Plane

CARACAS -- President Hugo Chávez said he ordered two F-16 jets to intercept a U.S. military plane that twice violated Venezuelan airspace on Friday in what he called the latest provocation in the South American nation's skies.

Brandishing a photo of the plane, which he described as a P-3, Mr. Chávez said the overflight was the latest incursion in Venezuelan skies by the U.S. military from its bases on the Netherlands' Caribbean islands and from neighboring Colombia.

~snip~
On the plane interception, Mr. Chávez said the F-16s escorted the U.S. plane away after two incursions lasting 15 and 19 minutes each.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126300260041422661.html?mod=rss_Today%27s_Most_Popular
Rupert Murdoch-owned Wall Street Journal

[Pavulon]

33. no power, currency devaluation, ohh ohh, look at this american boogeyman

pay no attention to the giant crater I am about to make when all the bullshit I have been peddling crashes. BTW can I get some loans for NG turbine generators to use on my failing grid, no? Just because I nationalized their shit doesn't mean I will steal, er, nationalize your property.

Poor hugu his pot and all the little froggies who hopped in with him are at a rolling boil.

[PacerLJ35]

35. A photo is still not proof of anything...

but proof that a US P-3 was airborne. His fighters can intercept aircraft well outside the 3 nautical mile airspace boundary at will and take all the photos they want, but it still wouldn't change the fact the US aircraft wasn't actually in their airspace. Even if they were in their airspace, it was likely accidental. The US can look into Venezuela just fine from 3 miles away and they would probably use something other than a standard P-3C.

[Judi Lynn]

36. Omigosh. You're right. We should know it's all a commie lie. Let's get him.

That is, let's all howl and carry on like a sea of Joe McCarthys on the trail of those elusive commies, and maybe the government will send some killers to bomb the holy hell out of their country, that is, all the parts with poor people in them.

Some of us have had a real obsession with wiping them out ever since they gave our beloved savior, Richard Milhouse Nixon an inferior welcome to Venezuela in 1958.

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org.nyud.net:8090/us-relations/nixon-caracas2.jpg

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org.nyud.net:8090/us-relations/nixon-caracas.jpg

Democrats, liberals, progressives are criminals, should all be dead and leave more room for true blindingly white, bloated, greedy, twisted maggots like Karl Rove, and other sociopaths, no doubt.

[PacerLJ35]

37. Thanks for the added words to my mouth

No where did I say we should "get him". Honestly I don't care about Venezuela, and I think the biggest threat Chavez poses to the US is a lot of hot air added to the climate change issue. However, there is a very active trafficking activity going on in that region of the world and our aircraft fly in international airspace (or countries that allow us to operate in their airspace) to monitor such traffic.

[wayne fontes]

40. He did produce a photo for sure

From 2005!

http://www.abc.es/20100109/internacional-iberoamerica/chavez-muestra-foto-wikipedia-201001092022.html

[PacerLJ35]

43. Please tell me that's not the photo he's saying is "proof"...

That's file footage of a Navy P-3 in full-up ASW (Anti-Sub/Ship Warfare) mode...and it's over land. I seriously doubt a Navy P-3, loaded with anti-ship missiles, is going to fly well inland of Venezuela, completely defying full-armed Venezuelan fighters.

[Lurks Often]

25. I posted this over in GD in an almost identical conversation

There are two variations of the basic P-3 airframe:

The first variation is the P-3C which is a sub-hunter; the second variation is the EP-3 which is an intelligence gathering aircraft. Essentially a snoop, it gathers radio intercepts and other electronic eavesdropping and rarely gets closer then within 50-100 of a country's airspace, because it doesn't need to. Neither would fly over Venezuelan airspace. Neither variation is capable of going much faster then 400mph (if that), not exactly an aircraft you send into unfriendly airspace.

As an aside, the EP-3 that was involved in the incident with China was flying 70 miles from Chinese airspace.

IF we were going to violate their airspace to spy on them, we would use a drone, which is unmanned, MUCH harder to detect and wouldn't result in American deaths if it was shot down.

It used to be that when we DID fly spy missions that violated a country's airspace, it required the President's approval.

I'm not buying the story, because there is currently no military reason to violate Venezuelan airspace with a manned aircraft to do something that could be done equally as well with in a drone or a satellite.

[Renew Deal]

28. Besides the fact that I doubt this even happened, how does he know it's a US plane?

Any proof?

[Pavulon]

32. Busted link (fixed by reuters?). Fix or yank thread.

no text no story. In other news power collapse imminent in VZ.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

34. The article is listed in the column to the left of the headline.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

41. What's Hugo doing with F16s?

Those F16s are American tools of world domination. His military should be flying MIGs. If he put his money where his mouth is.

:hi:

[Pavulon]

42. The bought a bunch. I wonder why they aren't flying them?

higo dropped mad billions on migs. Guess some natural gas generation plants would have been a better use of the people's money.

[PacerLJ35]

44. Hugo switched to Russian suppliers

They still operate the F-16s, until the spare parts run out.