Israeli firm blasted for letting would-be plane bomber slip through

[Scurrilous]

Source: Haaretz

<snip>

"The Israeli firm, ICTS, and two of its subsidiaries are at the crux of an international investigation in recent days, as experts try to pinpoint the reasons for the security failure that enabled Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab to board Northwest flight 253 and attempt to set alight explosives hidden in his underwear.

A Haaretz investigation has learned that the security officers and their supervisor should have suspected the passenger, even without having early intelligence available to them.

At this time, ICTS and the Dutch security firm G4S are hurling recriminations at each other, as are the authorities at Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam, the Federal Aviation Authority and U.S. intelligence officials.

The failure was a twin flop: An intelligence failure, which U.S. President Barack Obama has already stated, in the poor handling of information that arrived at the State Department and probably also the CIA from both the father of the would-be bomber and the British security service; and a failure within the security system, including that of the Israeli firm ICTS."

Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1141434.html

[Behind the Aegis]

1. And there on..............!

:tinfoilhat:

[Divine Discontent]

2. hmmmmm.... 1 certainly must wonder.

[Behind the Aegis]

3. Not really.

It can be expected. Israeli owner = Israel owned.

Racial profiling as established by Israeli airports/security firms = evil, racist, bad

Racial profiling failure by "Israeli" company = deliberate attempt to cause mayhem to advance Zionist/Israeli goals of (world) domination

Same as it always is.

[Mithreal]

8. Enjoy your preemption doctrine?

If a company owned by an American citizen were described as an American company, I am sure you would have the same objection.

I searched for information on this company, others will too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1169551

[ooglymoogly]

24. The only similarities between u. S. and Israel, is, that they both

pretend to be democracies.

[Ken Burch]

10. No different from saying "American owner=American owned"

or "Chinese owner=Chinese owned".

Saying "Israeli owned" does not equate to blaming ALL Israelis.

[here_is_to_hope]

23. You make me ill. eom

[ooglymoogly]

25. They say el dopa or any of the other catecholamines work on this kind of illness. nt

[here_is_to_hope]

27. I found the ignore button to work just fine but thanks

for your concern.:hi:

[notadmblnd]

31. What? do you have a program that scans for the word Israel in our posts

and you're always here to defend Israel right off at the start. Seeing very few of your posts anywhere else or on any other subject, I question you. Is there nothing Israel can do in your eyes that is objectionable?

So why don't you explain to us how this firm made an honest mistake instead of accusing all us here of being racists even before anything is said?

[Truth2Tell]

35. BTA has the magic ability to identify racism

before it even appears. It's extraordinary. I think it's taken years to master.

[Behind the Aegis]

49. Yes, because it is so unlikely here.

:eyes:

Read the thread!

Perhaps you'd like to defend some of the remarks? Maybe we could resurect a good poster friend of yours?

[Behind the Aegis]

50. That's the best you have?

"...you're always here to defend Israel right off at the start.

Your first failing.

"Seeing very few of your posts anywhere else or on any other subject, I question you."

Your second failing.

Is there anything that Israel can do in your eyes that is beneficial or good?

"So why don't you explain to us how this firm made an honest mistake instead of accusing all us here of being racists even before anything is said?"

No need. And I didn't accuse "all of you here" of being racists. For someone so worried about me making things up, you don't seem to have a problem doing the very same thing in the form of ad hominmens.

[notadmblnd]

56. You pulled that right out of your ass. I didn't say a word you making things up

Behind the Aegis Donating Member

"1. And there on..............!

:tinfoilhat:
Force without wisdom falls of its own weight -- Horace
The rise of anti-Semitism



"Edited on Sun Jan-10-10 05:50 AM by Behind the Aegis
It can be expected. Israeli owner = Israel owned.

Racial profiling as established by Israeli airports/security firms = evil, racist, bad

Racial profiling failure by "Israeli" company = deliberate attempt to cause mayhem to advance Zionist/Israeli goals of (world) domination

Same as it always is."


NO! you did not come out and call anyone racist in plain English, you implied it in your two posts. What you wrote was meant to preempt any criticism by implying that if anyone here does say something critical about Israel, then they're racist. So you got me on a fucking technicality. It's pretty much the same thing guy!

I asked why you always show up on these types of posts (yes, the majority of your posts are responses to something critical in regards to your motherland) and accuse people of being racist. You conveniently avoided answering the questions by telling me that it is not true. Prove it!


And another thing, it is "they're on" not "there on". Might want to have your handlers go over basic English grammar with you.

[Behind the Aegis]

57. I think you are seeing your own reflection in the mirror.

"NO! you did not come out and call anyone racist in plain English, you implied it in your two posts." Aww, the truthiness emerges, as do the lack of reading skills. You do know this icon (:tinfoilhat:) is representative of "conspiracy theory(ists)," right? It is not a representative icon of racism/bigotry.

"What you wrote was meant to preempt any criticism by implying that if anyone here does say something critical about Israel, then they're racist." WOW! Miss Clio, is that you?! Given I said, a NUMBER of times, not all criticism is anti-Semitism or even anti-Israel bigotry, it's amazing you were able to predict what I actually meant as opposed to what I actually said. But, then again, you explain that away with:

"So you got me on a fucking technicality." No, I got you posting something that wasn't true.

"I asked why you always show up on these types of posts (yes, the majority of your posts are responses to something critical in regards to your motherland) and accuse people of being racist." Wow, the irony in that sentence is staggering. Of course, as by your own admission, I didn't call anyone, and especially didn't call "all of (DU)", racists. I didn't even call "all" of DU conspiracy theorists; I made an observation.

"You conveniently avoided answering the questions by telling me that it is not true. Prove it!" Burden of proof. You have a knack for logical fallacies. You made the assertions; YOU prove it! You know, for a biographer, you suck!

"And another thing, it is "they're on" not "there on". Might want to have your handlers go over basic English grammar with you." Reward your handlers for helping you find that error, but do spank them for failing to find yours, "I didn't say a word you making things up."

Here's something for you to digest: I made an observation people would don the tinfoil and lay the blame on Israel and claim it would be used for an Israeli advantage to start/continue war...lo and behold, POST NUMBER 4:

Wizard777 (1000+ posts) Sun Jan-10-10 05:55 AM
Response to Original message
4. If the plane went down. I sure Israel was prepared to feed us intelligence saying it was Iran.

Made an hour after my speculation and THREE hours before the first response to my post #3 and almost SIX hours before YOUR post.

[notadmblnd]

58. Alrighty then.... pot meet kettle

Here is a screen shot of just one page of your 14,000 posts. I have provided a link if anyone wants to peruse them and determine for themselves what you're about. You accuse me of being unstable, but if defending Israel is not your profession, do you really think that your obsession with it is healthy?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/searchresults.html?domains=democraticunderground.com&q=Behind+the+Aegis&sa=Search&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com&client=pub-7805397860504090&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A11&hl=en

[Behind the Aegis]

60. Back to the logical fallacy of choice? Ad homs?

And yet, many of those aren't about Israel ("my motherland") now are they? Here's something donating members can do...run a simple search of the past few weeks with articles/posts about Israel and count the number of those versus the number of times I respond. Then run a search with my username for the same period and look at the variety of topics I do discuss.

I didn't accuse you of being unstable. But your personal attacks were expected.

[notadmblnd]

61. project much?

[Behind the Aegis]

62. That would be you.

A simple review of the thread would show you tripping all over yourself to explain away your comments, personal attacks (started in the first response to me), moving the goal posts, burden of proof fallacy, and missing the truth...my conjecture wasn't wrong, one only need to look in the thread for examples of it.

[mallard]

59. Re: program is running

Notadminblnd:

"... do you have a program that scans for the word Israel in our posts ... and you're always here to defend Israel right off at the start. Seeing very few of your posts anywhere else or on any other subject, I question you."

Yes, and blaming people for finding fault ahead of the fact, with this sense of oversight-cum-mastery over weak 'outsider' tendancies to ever raise perplexing questions of intent, seems a tad arrogant. Judgement is harsh and penalties not left unpaid by escalated ferocity. We are being sheparded as such - not to think such thoughts - and things do not look good in the meantime, anyway.

The subterfuge is not merely endemic or systematic, but has rather become ... program line feed.

The article doesn't suggest individuals within that Israeli security company which had a hand in establishing the relevant screening critera had knowledge of or interest in letting some one dupe strapped with whatever to cause this huge national and international airport security 'surge', for other reasons. So, why all the cause for secondary, Monday morning quarterbacking here at DU.

Mondays do come once every seven days. Great effort in pointing out the irony and good luck navigating the rapids downstream. Sometimes, the difference between right and wrong actually matters more than people's sense of dignity or collective ego, if you will .


"Is there nothing Israel can do in your eyes that is objectionable?"

You might want to focus on questions with more of an open-ended answer theme. It's better for debate.

[No Elephants]

64. I've noticed that gun threads and threads about the South/Confederacy, etc.

seem to draw posters (or, at least screen names) that I seldom see on other kinds of threads; a number of which show a post count under a thousand, though some are over a thousand.

I can understand being interested only in certain topics, but I also wonder how they see the threads so fast if they are not here all the time. Maybe they post here regularly under one of more other names?

Don't know about Israel threads, though.

[rury]

39. I'm sure it's the latter

let the plane blow up so that they can attack Yemen and hope the United States joins them in the slaughter.

[No Elephants]

63. You are upset with how Haaretz described the company to Israelis? Wouldn't Blackwater be described

as an American company, if it had been hired to provide security? Do people really assume every company owned by an Israeli (or by Israelis) and hired by something like an airport in the Netherlands is an arm of the Israeli government? (Since America does hire Blackwater to fight its wars, Blackwater may not be the best example.)

And I did not see any focus in the story on racial profiling (although the name of a passenger might indicate religion).

There is mention of profiling for origin, among other things, but I didn't know if tha meant where the passenger was born (in this case, Nigeria) or where the passenger's trip originated (Yemen). Would the program include profiling blacks?

The story also says that the Israeli Airport Authority and Shin Bet rejected the system used in Schipol, which does not make it seem as though the Israeli security company at Schipol is part of Israel.

As far as letting a passenger board who had paid in cash for a one way ticket and had no baggage other than carryon, that is 911 terrorist attack 101. Most DU posters immediately blamed the Netherlands airport for allowing him to board without even a second look, without knowing that a company owned by owned by Israeli citizens had been responsible for providing security at Schipol.

What I do see is that people/entities, American and foreign, who are responsible for preserving our lives, should each be taking responsibility for their respective part in messing up. Instead,all are pointing fingers at each other--clusterflock. Human nature, I guess, but it is aggravating. I sure did not see a verbal attack on the nation of Israel in the Haaretz article.

I guess I am not really understanding what in the OP article is the basis for your concerns.

[Behind the Aegis]

65. Not upset with Ha'aretz at all.

I just know, well speculate how it will be used.

"Do people really assume every company owned by an Israeli (or by Israelis) and hired by something like a Netherlands airport is an arm of the Israeli government?"

Yes. Take a look at this thread. (pssst..check out response #4 and the 5th response to my third post, that should give you an indication.)

"I sure did not see a verbal attack on the nation of Israel."

Nor did I say there was one.

[No Elephants]

66. ....

"I just know, well speculate how it will be used."

That's honest. I got a different impression from your second post, but this post of yours clarfies the prior one.

On edit: Conspiracy theories of all kinds, having nothing to do with Israel, get posted at DU all the time, along with ones that do "implicate" Israel. I usually take conspiracy posts lightly and suspect most of us do, but that's just a guess.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Wizard777]

4. If the plane went down. I sure Israel was prepared to feed us intelligence saying it was Iran.

[leveymg]

5. Must be a really great profiling algorithm they've sold to most major U.S. airlines.

Makes me feel so much more secure.

[Celebration]

6. okay

So THIS was why that report from the present was watered down....

Pathetic.

I wonder exactly what they missed? Believe me it wasn't racial profiling.

Of course, there is the one way ticket, the no luggage, etc. And they won't make that mistake next time.

[No Elephants]

68. Exact same M.O. at the airport as 911. Only carryon

luggage (this time for an international flight, no less), one way ticket, paid for in full in cash. Three bright red flags the world has seen before, to its horror.

Explosives concealed on the person, for detonation while the aircraft is in flight. Exact same M.O as Reid (shoe v. undies was the only difference---and God help us all if it has to be the exact same article of clothing before airport security catches it.)

Information within the U.S. government, including the perp's name, courtesy of this father. Failure to connect the dots. Where have we heard that before? Maybe from that very expensive 911 commission for which taxpayers paid. Wasn't formation of Homeland Security supposed to remedy the line to dot deficit?

How dumb/incompetent do terrorists have to be before the people we pay to protect us can actually do their jobs?

For instance, why did we not at least develop software that would flag (for extra scrutiny and surveillance) a passenger meeting the 911 profile of payment in cash, one way ticket and no luggage, traveling to the U.S. Any two of those things on an international flight should set have off alarms in any airport in the world. And, if s/he gets on the plane, an armed agent gets on as well--no long time in the john like Reid and the Christmas bomber, either.

And even that is way too little (but we still didn't do it).

We have to get more pro-active, thinking what we might do if we were planning a terrorist attack on the U.S. or on one of our embassies abroad. And then, we have to develop the means of detecting and thwarting those sceanrios. We can't keep focusing only on what the last attacker tried and burdening the traveling public.


Grrrrrr. So frustrating.

[Bitwit1234]

7. Since you don't have reasons to fire our security officers

I think that when a new president comes into office, he should move the people to different projects. He should then set up his own security maintenance force. No matter what others say. If there had been some sort of rearrangement of people, who had been properly trained in their job, these things wouldn't happen.

[No Elephants]

70. We cannot afford to keep creating new bureaucracies. Heck, we can't even afford the ones we already

have.

We should be thinking about merging and streamlining, not more cumbersome duplication.

We have the FBI, CIA and Secret Service hat supposedly gather intelligence, translate and analyze it and take appropriate action. Why? So things could sit for two years waiting to be translated? So we had to create a whole new bureaucracy, Homeland Security, to make them share intelligence with each other? Because "domestic" vs. "foreign" is so meaningful in days of cell phones, emails and sleeper cells?

Why couldn't we have been, since 911, gradually combining all four into one agency, with specialized divisions, gathering and translating data from home and abroad, then passing it on to different divisions, each of which specializes acting within in a particular sphere? One person in charge, reporting to the President. No passing the buck. No failure to share info. No inter-agency rivalry and competition. No duplication. Less cost, more efficiency and speed. We can't we start now, since we did not start then?

[Joanne98]

9. Haaretz is a good paper.

[Christa]

11. I hope to see this being reported

in the main stream media.

[Prometheus Bound]

12. AFP: Israeli firm 'failed to detect would-be bomber'

Israeli firm 'failed to detect would-be bomber'
(AFP) – 5 hours ago

JERUSALEM — An Israeli security firm has come under fire for failing to detect Nigerian bomb suspect Umar Farouk Abdulmuttalab despite separate US intelligence failures, an Israeli paper reported on Sunday.

The Israeli-owned ICTS company did not identify the 23-year-old charged in connection with the failed Christmas Day bombing as a flight risk despite several warning signs, the Haaretz newspaper said.

"Even if US intelligence failed and the name of the Nigerian passenger was not pinpointed as a suspect for the airline, he should have stirred the suspicion of the security officers," the newspaper said.

"His age, name, illogical travel route, high-priced ticket purchased at the last minute, his boarding without luggage (only a carry-on) and many other signs should have been sufficient to alert the security officers and warrant further examination of the suspect."

The Netherlands-based firm provides security services in airports in 11 countries, including France, Britain, Spain, Hungary, Romania and Russia, the newspaper reported.

It was established in 1982 by former agents of Israel's internal Shin Bet security service and former El Al airline security agents, the paper added.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jQz8o58w82oYBCdo0uqNkxIvPc2w

[Crowman1979]

13. Wouldn't be surprised if Mossad had a hand in this.

[Douglas Carpenter]

16. I would really doubt that! As a supporter of the Palestinians and a critic

of Israeli/American policy in the Middle East - I would be the first to point out legitimate complaints against the state of Israel,

But, honestly I don't see any good coming from such speculation - without any evidence whatsoever.

The truth with solid evidence is bad enough - we don't need to speculate on matters for which there simply is no evidence.

[Crowman1979]

18. You're right! Although since this was a contractors fault.....

...it goes to show that it's best for a sovereign nation, not a company, to handle airport security.

[Douglas Carpenter]

19. on that I certainly agree

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pjt7]

45. good post sand walker84

.

[rury]

52. What happened to sandwalker84's post about

the Israeli connection and how this was a possible false flag to draw us into a wider war in the Middle East?
It was a very good one.

[MilesColtrane]

46. He's got it wrong, it was a triad of Mossad, the Grays, and the Loch Ness Monster.

Rense?

Really?

[Alamuti Lotus]

54. eh, Mossad is not competant enough for such matters these days

[peacetalksforall]

14. Interesting wording on the ticket.:

"His age, name, illogical travel route, high-priced ticket purchased at the last minute, his boarding without luggage (only a carry on) and many other signs should have been sufficient to alert the security officers and warrant further examination of the suspect. "

High priced ticket. *Yes, a one way costs plenty (but if you're cheap and you intend to blow up an aircraft, why buy round trip).

THE POINT IS THIS - the purchase of a one way ticket has been a flag raiser for decades.

Then ass traveling from one continent to another with a carry-on?

The testimony of a bi-stander who said a well dressed man presented the bomber to the check-in agent as a refugee makes sense out of the fact that he only carried a carry-on.

The fact that he did have a passport and visa, but didn't use it because he was presented as a refugee means refugees are exempt from security checks?

Was there a well dressed man?

Have the Haskell's retracted any of what they have reported, yet?

Did the well dressed man work for any security firm? Or intelligence agency? Or the UN?

What is the process for refugees.

We 'don't know nothin' YET.

The President and his rivals (traitors) in the Pentagon and PNAC (working for the barons) must promise the world that they will not use subterfuge to start a war with Iran.

Time for some criminal proceedings to proceed against the airports and agencies. Forget about the secret insider investigations.

What we've been given so far is all talk which infers that the problems are all WITHIN OUR OWN agencies.

NOTICE HOW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CONTRACTORS AGAIN - whether or not they are are direct U.S. contractors. THEY ARE CONTRACTORS. So far, we have seen that too many contractors have their own agendas. They are set up for their own agendas and wealth for a few.

Beware their agendas. This is one messed up world.

[No Elephants]

69. Some DUers blamed only security at Schipol, while others blamed only our own agencies.

I don't see it as either/or and blamed both.

[harun]

15. Napalitano was asked the other day if contractors were used in the screening and she

said no, it was the Dutch authorities.

Wonder what the truth is?

[No Elephants]

73. Why would Haaretz say it was an Israeli contractor if the Dutch authorities were at fault?

[harun]

80. I don't think they would, I think Napalitano was lying and covering for the Israeli's.

[choie]

17. but I thought

that the private sector was so much more competent than the government :sarcasm:

[erpowers]

20. Big News

This is big news in that so many people were quick to talk about how great the israelis were at stopping terrorist attacks and how their methods were just so awesome. I guess the methods are not so awesome after all.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

72. The story says Israel and the Israeli airport authority rejected this company's methods.

the U.S., however, bought them.

[KoKo]

26. K&R...There were rumors around the net about this. Now it seems to

be verified. Interesting.

[icee]

It's been widely reported that this was just another False Flag

OP, which it was, like 9-11. Here, let me make it simple: Neocons need a situation to remedy a problem. They go to the Israelis (the real Flag), who create the situation (terrorist attempts to blow up plane). The Israelis, in turn, contact Level One operatives, who contact other lesser operatives until they have a suitable Islamic functionary (the False Flag). In this case the False Flag turned out to be an idiot kid who prolly couldn't light a cherry bomb with a blow torch. And the result? A slam against the Democrats and Obama, almost the exact same result as if the bomb had actually gone off. The beat goes on . . .

[stray cat]

28. Another inconvenience

[go west young man]

29. I would say this is definitely a point scored for conspiracy theorists

as they have believed in Israeli complicity in everything from the Sibel Edmunds case to the 93' WTC attack to 9/11. In this case you have an Israeli firm directly responsible for letting the most obvious terrorist through just as Mr. Haskell witnessed. I'm curious what took place in the meeting before he was allowed to board the plane after the well dressed man spoke on his behalf as Mr. Haskell reported. There is no way he would have been allowed on that plane without some strong credentials. Either from the CIA or Mossad, I would speculate, but that's impossible to do when your a conspiracy theorist on DU. ;) You get dungeonized.

[pjt7]

30. I have read that ICTS was handling security in Logan Airport

(Boston) on 9.11 thru their usa owned subsidiary Huntleigh USA.

This needs to be 100% verified.

[notadmblnd]

34. yes, because it's not like people get together and plan crimes everyday

So we all know there's no such thing as conspiracies:sarcasm:

[icee]

32. See Lavon Affair........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

[NFL80]

33. On all levels, it really looks like a setup.

Yes, there was a fire and flames. The perp was injured. The passengers were frightened severely; but the device failed to detonate. My own conclusion is that the device was designed not to work and everyone following the movements of this person knew it. To what end?

[pjt7]

36. Helen Thomas was directly asking questions about

this security company in that press conference.

[KoKo]

41. It was so bungled that I think many of us wondered the same thing...

especially with Cheney warning...and those of us who've been around awhile thought the "playbook" from the MSM was following the same script as they did after 9/11. How the CIA ops being blown up in Afghanistan fits with this would be interesting. Don't know if there's a connection but "Terror at Christmas" was interesting timing.

[Hansel]

37. Self delete

Should have read article closer.

[ooglymoogly]

40. Why has the conversation overheard by two or the

passengers of the "well dressed Indian" and the bomber disappeared from the radar; And that the bomber was escorted through security without the usual checks? What the heck was going on there and why is this not of any interest to the "investigators"?

[KoKo]

42. Maybe the WH shut it down.

They know the truth, but for now don't want us to know. Maybe more will come out in drips like the Haaretz article. One would hope there are some folks out there who are working against the Cheney operation. :shrug:

[No Elephants]

67. There was a thread here that said TSA was investigating that very thing, so I am

not sure why you think that investigators were not interested. The story was about TSA's questioning the lawyer who made that claim.

[ooglymoogly]

81. Because the folks who overheard the conversation

said that after the first debriefing they were ignored. Your constant and pedantic defense of at best carelessness and at worst wrongdoing by our government is duly noted. The pudding proof is that nothing has come of this devastating information and this explosive story has disappeared. Your calling the story a "claim" as if it were not to be believed is also a wee bit clannish.

[Andronex]

43. It is the same company that was in charge on 9/11...

...of security at the airports where the alleged hijackers boarded, the same company that was in charge during the bombing of the London underground in 2005, where as on 9/11 most of the video cameras mysteriously stopped working just before both attacks... this is all part of the public record.

[Jim Sagle]

44. OMIGOD, there's a joooooooooooooo over there!!!!!!!!

:boring:

[17breezes]

48. heh.....kinda scares one to know so many

tinfoil hatters inhabit this place.

[No Elephants]

71. You think the Haaretz story had no other point? No other issues relevant to whether people live or

die?

[Jim Sagle]

84. I think some of the posters here have no other point.

[go west young man]

47. Link to prior DU thread on the evidence and Kurt Haskell.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7395881

additional link to Haskells MLive postings where he states his case. http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_kurt_hask.html

[proteus_lives]

51. The Tinfoil Hat Brigade has a Jewish/Israeli angle.

That will give them a happy feeling.

[RogueBandit]

53. To not seek conspiracy ...

To not seek conspiracy among leaders, and followers, is to fail in a citizen's duty. There is no shame in being proven wrong about a conspiracy, there is great harm in ignoring the signs of one that may mature or has caused harm that needs reparations.

To slam some group of people for believing in and working to prove a conspiracy exists, or did at one time exist and is now being covered up, is folly. Those of you who do slam those groups probably have your own conspiracy theories about the conspiracy theory groups!

If anything, it would be best for us to help the conspiracy theorist organize their thoughts. In that way, either they will come to their senses or we will come to see the truth in their theory.

This message comes from a progressive who once sat on the city council for an emerging metropolitan area run by Republicans, where the elites do conspire ... frequently as a way to benefit wealthy pockets to the detriment of the common good.

[No Elephants]

75. My problem with conspiracy theories--what do you do about them?

And how is what you do about a conspiracy theory different from what you would do to hold your own government accountable for finding out the truth, disclosing it and being more effective about security in the future?

I am an action oriented person. I am also a fact based person.

I lose patience when all people want to do is spin cotton candy out of nothing, without suggesting anything constructive that citizens may be able to do about it. (That is the duty of a citizen: to identify which action is possible and then to take it, not to spout bs endlessly, to see how clever someone else might find him or her.)

Another thing: some of the theories are indeed just plain cuckoo. Know what happens when you try to organize the thoughts of a cuckoo, as though those thoughts have validity? Ask any psychiatrist how much time you can safely spend in that endeavor before the cuckoo becomes contagious.

[Mithreal]

77. It's not only criminal conspiracies that fail that test.

As long as the people cannot understand what is happening, think it is too complicated or out of their control or even out of government control, the same problem occurs with actual facts as with suggested conspiracies.

I have yet to understand the revulsion to suggesting two or more individuals may have committed a hideous crime. It is no more difficult for me to see one person versus a group of people doing something highly unethical or illegal. Even whole countries can get away with murdering populations if there is just enough doubt, doesn't really matter what the truth is when you have "patriotism", a military as dominant as ours, and adequate cover from something like 9/11.

Activating and empowering the people is a bigger question and is entirely distinct from the question of possible criminal conspiracies. We could just agree to talk about the facts and only the facts and we would still face that bigger question.

The biggest cuckoo of all may be thinking we can change things but we may need a whole lot more of these people in the near future.

[bemildred]

55. Always good to see the political liars and poltroons arguing with each other. nt

[No Elephants]

74. Did the U.S. even ask Israel why Israel rejected the computerized algorithm?

"Two decades ago, ICTS adopted the system used in Israel, namely of profiling and assessing the degree to which a passenger is a potential threat on the basis of a number indicators (including age, name, origin and behavior during questioning). At the same time, a decade ago, the company developed a technological system called APS (Advanced Passenger Screening).

This system is based on a computerized algorithm, and is fed passenger information from the airline company. The system was offered to the Israel Airports Authority and the Shin Bet in the past, but rejected. According to the company's Web site, most of the large airlines in the United States use the system.

However - in real time - the system of ICTS failed. Even if U.S. intelligence failed and the name of the Nigerian passenger was not pinpointed as a suspect for the airline, he should have stirred the suspicion of the security officers. His age, name, illogical travel route, high-priced ticket purchased at the last minute, his boarding without luggage (only a carry on) and many other signs should have been sufficient to alert the security officers and warrant further examination of the suspect.

However, the security supervisor representing I-SEC and PI allowed him to get on the flight. "


Is everyone too busy worrying about the nationality of the owners of the security company and the reputation of the current U.S. administration (even though Obama said FAIL) to worry whether our government and others ever get this right and finally use our tax dollars to protect our lives? See also Reply ##s 68 and 70.

Doesn't matter if our money is being thrown down a black hole or that we may die. It matters whose fault it will be deemed to be.

Well, as long as we've all got out priorities straight.

[Kurska]

76. OH BOY this thread devolved quickly into the "Israeli Conspiracy"

People wonder why threads like this are usually punted down to the dungeon, well you have your answer, a very ugly side of the DU Seems to come out when they aren't

[Mithreal]

78. The formula for poisoning any story that contains Israel or Israeli is very simple

and it works every time. So little effort and yet so effective.

Is it any wonder what you say is true?

[katkat]

79. how to get the US to attack Yemen, let me see

Yeah, that's hard to figure out. Too bad for them this time the lapdog is damn near bankruptcy fighting their other wars. Although it would not surprise me one iota if Obama follows Joementum's lead and attacks Yemen as well.

[hayu_lol]

82. Sad that everyone(exceptions)wants to find a guilty party...

to point the finger at.

The buck stops at our very own CIA for not seeing that this man was banned from flying to or entering the US. A much larger problem than determining who else may have been at fault.

Ergo sum: The fault is ours.

[sofa king]

83. It would appear that they failed to do enough racial profiling.

"A Haaretz investigation has learned that the security officers and their supervisor should have suspected the passenger, even without having early intelligence available to them."

And how, one might ask, does one suspect a passenger without early intelligence? Yep, that's how.