Venezuela protests to US on claimed air incursion

[demoleft]

Source: ap

CARACAS, Venezuela – Venezuela made a diplomatic protest to the United States and the Netherlands on Monday, saying a U.S. military plane violated its airspace last week after taking off from the Dutch Caribbean island of Curacao. A U.S. diplomat denied it.

Venezuelan Foreign Minister Nicolas Maduro called the purported incursion "an attempt to provoke some type of incident." He presented a protest letter to John Caulfield, charge d'affaires at the U.S. Embassy in Caracas, and to Dutch diplomat J.G. van Vloten Dissevelt.

Maduro expressed concern about the Netherlands' role, saying that "we are worried that their territories are being used by the United States to make illegal incursions into our airspace."

Caulfield denied the accusation, saying a U.S. military plane has not strayed into Venezuelan airspace since 2008, when the U.S. acknowledged what it called an accidental incident involving a Navy plane. Caulfield noted U.S. and Venezuelan officials discussed that incident in 2008.


Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100112/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_venezuela_us

[Enrique]

1. Updated: they met to discuss it

first meeting in over a year.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100111-712596.html?mod=WSJ_latestheadlines

CARACAS (Dow Jones)--Senior officials from Venezuela and the U.S. held their first face-to-face meeting in more than a year Monday after President Hugo Chavez said a U.S. war plane illegally entered his country's airspace last week.

Chavez said a U.S. military aircraft spent a total of more than a half hour Friday morning inside Venezuelan airspace. He called it a "provocative action" and said he ordered two F-16 jets to intercept the U.S. war plane, which he said took off from the nearby Netherlands Antilles.

That led Foreign Relations Minister Nicolas Maduro to call for a closed-door meeting Monday afternoon with John Caulfield, the top official at the U.S. Embassy in Caracas while its ambassador is temporarily out of the country.

When the meeting ended, Caulfield told reporters he indicated to Maduro that Venezuela's accusations are false.

"No military airplane violated Venezuela's airspace recently," Caulfield said.

Maduro insisted it did happen. "They've denied it, but we have proof," the foreign minister said, adding that the government plans to demonstrate the proof, including radar images, in the coming days.

(...)

[WriteDown]

2. Remember this line...

Maduro insisted it did happen. "They've denied it, but we have proof," the foreign minister said, adding that the government plans to demonstrate the proof, including radar images, in the coming days.

[demoleft]

3. waiting for the images, then. they might have produced them already. n/t

[Tejas]

4. So, where are the pictures Chavez claimed to have the other day?

Thought there was an article that stated he "waved some pics around", though the planes he ranted about were single-engine Cessnas (WTF?)

LOL @ Chavez!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

5. There is another thread on this pushing chavezcode.com

which has a totally bogus picture other bogus claims.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=509442&mesg_id=509442

[Tejas]

6. Thank you! - nt

[ronnie624]

7. I don't believe that photo

has been claimed to be of the actual aircraft that violated Venezuelan airspace. What do you mean when you call it "bogus"?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

8. It was the lead photo for the column in the other thread

While proclaiming Chavez had photos and evidence that it was there...its inference, there was nothing acknowledging it was a stock photo. Its also one of the most aggressive looking photos of a P-3 out there. Intent to deceive is more than clear.

[PacerLJ35]

9. Somewhere I saw a spanish-language article with a photo of Chavez holding that very picture

I believe my response was "I really hope that's not his 'proof'". P-3s typically don't cruise around airspace armed like that.

[ronnie624]

10. Eva Golinger is one smart cookie.

You only wish progressives were as stupid as you believe.

[PacerLJ35]

11. So are you saying that photo is THE photo?

To clarify...is the photo on her blog the photo Chavez states is proof? Because that was the photo he was holding in his hand in the photograph taken of him not long ago.

[ronnie624]

12. Do you have a link you would like to share? n/t

[EFerrari]

15. What a piece of work you are. Eva Golinger may be partisan as hell

but she is always scrupulously accurate. Unlike yourself.

[redqueen]

13. Found this:

http://www.hollow-hill.com/sabina/2010/01/venezuela_presents_proof_of_us.html

[ronnie624]

14. Fascinating. Thanks.

I wish I could speak Spanish, damn it.

[boppers]

16. "airspace" = "Over open water, off of the coast"...

Poor guy, no wonder his country is falling apart! A plane was flying close to his borders, and how could he be expected to manage that *and* keep the lights on?

[ronnie624]

17. The U.S. government has admitted to one incident of "straying" into Venezuelan airspace.

When I consider the U.S. as an empire that regards Latin America as its "backyard", is now in the process of increasing its military presence in the region and has an easily traceable history of aggressive intervention there and elsewhere, I am inclined to believe the claims made by the Venezuelan government. There is a discernible pattern in the history of U.S. activities in Latin America. I strongly suspect there have been other incidents of "straying" into Venezuelan airspace, and that there will be more in the future.

Incidentally, I wonder what the reaction of the U.S. government would be if a military power - China, as an example - acquired bases a hundred miles or so from a major port in the United States, and began conducting military exercises directly off our coastline, occasionally "straying" into our airspace with military aircraft.

[PacerLJ35]

18. Russia has done it in the past and continues to occassionally do so

But we always intercept them prior to hitting our actual airspace. Given that Curacao is so close to Venezuela, it's probably not hard to make a wrong turn. Keep in mind that sovereign airspace extends only 3 miles from the shore. Everything beyond that is considered international airspace.

[ronnie624]

19. Russia has never installed military bases around the U.S.

and proceeded to routinely conduct exercises along its coastline. Russia does not have policy doctrines that proclaim all of the Americas its "backyard" and grant itself a right to impose hegemony through force in the region. Russia does not have a history of intervention in the Americas which includes coup d'etat, proxy wars and invasions. For those reasons, I don't believe Russia is currently a threat to the United States, so that leaves me free to concern myself with the activities of my own government and let the Russians worry about theirs.

U.S. spy planes are not making "wrong turns" over Venezuela. They're spying and probing and testing Venezuela's defenses.

[Judi Lynn]

20. Very glad to see your post. Clearly, you've learned enough about US history in the Americas to know

the pattern.

Latin Americans know the pattern, too. They found out the hard way. They don't wnat any part of their past to happen again.

Sad to see people trying to rewrite history, isn't it? Luckily more people are finding out more about it all the time, and once they've seen through the deception, they NEVER forget. They can't be "fooled again".

http://images3.cafepress.com.nyud.net:8090/product/54038213v1_225x225_Front.jpg

[ronnie624]

21. History is never on their side,

which is why they always 'forget' it.

[Pavulon]

22. Clearly...

the russians never stationed men and NUCLEAR WEAPONS in Cuba. Never happened. Clearly we never just about had ww3 over said event. Hugo is a petulant little ass and his country is falling apart. Unless oil prices spike he is going to continue to bray like a jackass to distract people from the giant fuckup his country is.

[ronnie624]

23. Not the same as a hundred year history of continuous interventionism.

Russia did not violate the sovereignty of Cuba. Cuba was looking for a way to defend against the real threat of invasion by the US. Russia needed a deterrent to U.S. missiles in Turkey. As it turns out, the whole Cuban Missile Crisis resulted directly from US policies of aggression and interventionism, and then it was over almost a quickly as it began. And again, Russia is not a threat to the sovereignty of the US.

You're comparing apples to oranges and then attempting to distract from the weakness of your position with one of your standard illogical fits of character assassination.

[Pavulon]

24. Seems like the USSR is gone now..

hugo has got big problems. The us invading is way down on the list. Wondering when some coup leader (like him) is going to execute him and take his job may be more relevant right now. We were going to invade after they stationed ballistic missiles there.

The USSR was an experiment that failed. Now the N. Koreans, CUbans, and a few other shitholes use that ode of government to oppress people. But they are dying off.

He better do his rain dance again.

[ronnie624]

25. Your message is a typical mishmash.

It darts and dashes into numerous directions, with no unifying course of reasoning.

[Pavulon]

26. Hugo is a liar, there is no incursion and he is doing this because in addition

to being a media hungry whore his country is all fucked up. It is much easier to shuck and jive about the US than address why the lights cant be kept on in a massive petro nation.

Bet he wishes he bought some NG generator capacity rather than those MIGS. Now that he stole, er , nationalized all those sectors its cash upfront for hardware.

He is pulling the old GW bush dance. Clear enough?

[ronnie624]

27. Someone is definitely 'shucking and jiving'.

- "there is no incursion"
That claim makes little sense in the face of a U.S. military buildup in the region and its aggressive stance regarding Venezuela. The U.S. conducts military exercises on a regular basis and has admitted to one violation of Venezuelan airspace already. Based on the history of U.S. reactions to Latin American countries that attempt to assert their independence, I'm betting there will be more 'accidental strayings' and "wrong turns" to come.

- "the lights can't be kept on in a massive petro nation"
Venezuela faces power shortages because of drought (heavy dependence on hydroelectric power) and because of the dramatic increase in demand resulting from massive economic growth, which is itself a direct result of the current governments policies raising so many out of extreme poverty. Venezuela must strike a balance between its energy needs and needed revenue generated by the sale of its hydrocarbon reserves. It can't just burn up its source of national income. There are power plants scheduled to come online within the next couple of years. They're very expensive and time consuming to build. Have patience. I can tell you're very concerned about the Venezuelan working class by the way you refer to their country as a "shithole" and a "fuckup" (no connotation of bigoted contempt there, no siree).

Can you elaborate on your "cash upfront for hardware" claim? I'm not certain about its meaning.

[Pavulon]

28. I referred to communist nations as shitholes, which they are

VZ is not a communist nation. It is a nation run by a guy who did a poor job planning. Once you nationalize peoples stuff, no one will invest without covering their expenses up front. IE a NG power generation plant, which takes months to build, will not be sold on the same terms as before the nationalization.