Officials: Suspected US drone kills 4 in Pakistan

[StarfarerBill]

Source: Associated Press

PESHAWAR, Pakistan – A suspected U.S. drone attacked a compound in Pakistan's volatile tribal area Tuesday, killing four people as part of an unprecedented wave of strikes since a deadly attack against the CIA across the border in Afghanistan, said intelligence officials.

Two missiles slammed into a building in the Deegan area of North Waziristan, a zone dominated by the Haqqani network, an al-Qaida-linked Afghan Taliban faction that many suspect helped orchestrate the Dec. 30 suicide bombing that killed seven CIA employees at a remote base in Khost province.

Tuesday's strike was the 12th since the CIA attack. The unmanned aircraft have also targeted the leader of the Pakistani Taliban, Hakimullah Mehsud, who appeared in a video alongside the Jordanian man who carried out the suicide bombing. But a series of strikes against his stronghold in South Waziristan apparently failed to take out the militant leader.

The identities of those killed in Tuesday's attack were unknown, said the intelligence officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to the media. The area hit in the attack is located 18 miles (30 kilometers) west of the town of Miran Shah and 12 miles (20 kilometers) south of the Afghan border.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan

[Piewhacket]

1. Drone strikes are war crimes. hello? anyone out there?

[OnyxCollie]

2. Why do you hate America?

No chocolate rations for you.

[Piewhacket]

7. because i love America and DU so much. (awwwww).

I'll gladly sacrifice my chocolate for the greater good.
But I'm keeping my new netbook.

[OhioChick]

3. But....we're spreading democracy and making friends. n/t

[ShortnFiery]

17. Yes, more of our Killer Drones sent to prop-up the tin pot thugs of nations all over the ME.

And WE dare to wonder why they HATE the USA? :eyes:

[Devil_Fish]

36. Thats "suspected" killer drones. NT

[saigon68]

39. Making hundreds more suicide bombers

One dead grandmother at a time.

[independentpiney]

4. How are drone strikes war crimes?

Is there an international convention against uavs? Of course they could be used to commit war crimes, but they are not of themselves war crimes unless there's something I'm not aware of.

[Piewhacket]

5. how are they not?

[independentpiney]

6. Not an answer. You made the assertion that they were

So I'm curious what you base that on.

[OnyxCollie]

8. Drone strikes are arbitrary assassinations.

Assassination=murder.

Murder is prohibited under the Geneva Convention (Article 3).

Violating the Geneva Convention=war crimes.

[independentpiney]

10. Assassinating enemy military leadership during war isn't a war crime

And in a war zone murder refers to intentional targeting and killing of civilians or surrendered combatants.So however morally repugnant and counter-productive the "collateral damage" is, it is not legally war crimes.

Regardless, drone strikes can be and are used for more than targeting leadership, so unless there's an international convention against their use drone strikes are not war crimes.

[OnyxCollie]

13. Predator drones were used to assassinate a naturalized US citizen.

Who needs trials when you can launch a Hellfire missile from a remotely-controlled Predator drone?

Surveillance Operation in Pakistan Located and Killed Al Qaeda Official
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/14/AR2005051401121.html

Al-Yemeni's death is one of only a handful of known incidents in which the CIA has fired the remote-controlled, missile-equipped Predator to kill an al Qaeda member. In November 2002, the CIA used a Predator fitted with a five-foot-long Hellfire missile to kill a senior al Qaeda leader, Abu Ali al-Harithi, as he was riding in a car in the Yemeni desert. Also killed with Harithi, who was suspected of masterminding the October 2000 attack on the destroyer USS Cole, was a naturalized U.S. citizen, Kamal Derwish.

Derwish, it was determined later, was part of the Lackawanna, N.Y., group of Yemeni men who admitted to training in al Qaeda camps.

The CIA is permitted to operate the lethal Predator under presidential authority promulgated after the Sept. 11 attacks. Shortly after the attacks, Bush approved a "presidential finding" that allowed the CIA to write a set of highly classified rules describing which individuals could be killed by CIA officers. Such killings were defined as self-defense in a global war against al Qaeda terrorists.

The rules have been vetted by the White House, CIA and State Department lawyers. They allow CIA counterterrorism officials in the field to decide much more quickly when to fire, according to former intelligence officials involved in developing the rules.

Why was Blackwater putting the bombs on these drones? Their contract is for security, not equipping Predator drones with bombs to launch attacks against naturalized US citizens in a country we are not at war with. Why do you think that happened?

Edit:typo

[independentpiney]

14. I agree with your point about Blackwater 100%

But that doesn't make drone strikes war crimes, as the other poster stated they were. As i stated upthread, they could be used to commit war crimes the same as any weapons platform. Not to mention the article states that the naturalized US citizen was an active enemy combatant, so while we may agree about CIA and Blackwater/Xe being involved, he was still fair game under international law.

[OnyxCollie]

15. If you agree 100% about Blackwater

why do you think the US used them? Why do you think the US used a private mercenary army, whose contract is to provide security for people, places, and equipment, to perform an inherently governmental action, which is to equip unmanned drones with missiles to attack people in a country we are not at war with, where civilians and a naturalized US citizen were killed, under an authority the government gave to itself? Why do you think they did that? Maybe because it's a war crime, and maybe because Blackwater is operating under no restrictions whatsoever, including the UCMJ, US law, and the laws of the country where the attack originated. Think about that for a bit and get back to me.

[independentpiney]

16. The article you posted was about a strike in Yemen in 2000

That explains both why the CIA was used rather than the military, and considering who was in charge of our government why Blackwater was involved.

It doesn't add any substance to the contention that drone strikes are war crimes.

[OnyxCollie]

19. The strike in Yemen happened in November 2002.

And when did we declare war on Yemen?

And the article mentions two strikes, including one in Pakistan in 2005:

But after Pakistani authorities early this month captured another al Qaeda leader, Abu Faraj al-Libbi, CIA officials became concerned that al-Yemeni would go into hiding and decided to try to kill him instead, said the counterterrrorism experts. "We had been working hard to see what he would do," said one expert, referring to al-Yemeni.

Al-Yemeni's importance in the al Qaeda organization could not be learned yesterday. He is not listed by that name in either the FBI or Pakistani "Most Wanted" list, but the active surveillance of him suggests his importance.

The CIA declined comment. Pakistan's information minister denied that any such incident, which was first reported by ABC News, even happened. "No such incident took place near the Pakistan-Afghanistan border," Sheikh Rashid Ahmed told the Associated Press yesterday.

The sources said the Predator drone, operated from a secret base hundreds of miles from the target, located and fired on al-Yemeni late Saturday night in Toorikhel, Pakistan, a suburb of Mirali in the province of North Waziristan.

Edit: Added date

[ShortnFiery]

21. It was posted as an early "example." President Obama has taken KILLER DRONES mainstream

and on steroids. It's fucking VILE and should stop NOW! :grr:

[OnyxCollie]

22. I agree.

[ShortnFiery]

25. thanks

I'm sorry to take my anger out on you. It's just that using these Killer Drones is so vile.

I love my country but I want us to STOP THIS NOW!

Here I thought that torturing prisoners was the LOWEST our government would go.

I was wrong. :(

[OnyxCollie]

27. Researching what our government has done and continues to do

leaves me feeling a little dead inside.

Who knew staring into the Abyss would have side effects?

[ShortnFiery]

29. Agreed. As a young woman, I only knew what the history books conveyed.

I only hope that we can stop all this killing and dying because it will mark the end of our species.

Too funny! I used to laugh at the old people predicting the end of the world, but if we don't stop the warmongering ... well, I wish we could stop the stranglehold that the MIC has over our Executive Branch. :(

[ShortnFiery]

23. Self delete

[OnyxCollie]

24. Were you replying to the poster above?

[ShortnFiery]

26. Yes, excuse me. My bad.

:blush: :hi:

[OnyxCollie]

28. S'alright.

:hi:

[independentpiney]

32. I guess reply 26 is on my ignore list.

it only has 2 active members, so I can take an educated guess which one it is.

[independentpiney]

31. Sorry, misread the date

As I keep saying, drones can be used to commit war crimes, and i'm sure they have been.
However, drone strikes are not war crimes just because they are drone strikes. Not unless there is an international convention against their use, as there is with poison gas for example.

[ShortnFiery]

18. The "enemy" turns out to WHOM-EVER the ruling juntas consider "a threat."

No charges and No trial = International CRIME.

Or are we AT WAR with 1) Pakistan; 2) Afghanistan; 3) Yemen; and 4) Somalia?

ONLY CONGRESS can declare "WAR."

Therefore, it would be akin to labeling one of our local GANGS "the enemy" and the police sending a KILLER DRONE out to kill them ... and their families caught the crossfire.

[Devil_Fish]

37. We are not at war with Pakistan. NT

[Devil_Fish]

38. We are not at war with Pakistan. NT

[Piewhacket]

9. oh, you want a serious discussion of the obvious? how refreshing.

what? you want a citation?
hey, without looking at any law at all it should be admitted
that what we are doing is

stealthily and without prior warning, directing a highly destructive bomb, a WMD,
into a civilian target and killing people, including admittedly innocent civilians.

right so far?

so what remains is to ask what justification is present for this
monstrously depraved act of aggression and terror.

burden of proof on the aggressor. that IS the way of civilized societies, isn't it?

[independentpiney]

11. Self-delete

[independentpiney]

12. You don't need to know the law to know what a war crime is?

You're emotions and "gut feelings" are enough? I'm sorry, but how is that mentality any different than a teabaggers?

[ShortnFiery]

20. And we, the USA is admittedly propping up an illegitimate government ruled by ...

our PUPPET, Hamid Karzai. They are fighting THE OCCUPATION in Afghanistan. If we pull out, elements of the Taliban will move back into areas of Afghanistan and put less pressure on "our buddies" in Pakistan.

But no, the MIC has to have it's NATIONS to use as their personal "Battlefield Disneyland" in order for them to test out all their PRETTY WEAPONS and various kick-ass munitions.

[Robb]

30. You've missed a few chapters, I think

Obama has been deliberately going around Karzai. Karzai's influence is slipping, and he's responding by ratcheting up his anti-Western rhetoric. To Taliban approval, actually.

...If you're looking for an ally in the "all America does is kill innocent civilians" propaganda campaign, Karzai is it.

[Piewhacket]

33. the crime is evident, it is the defense of it that is required and missing.

acts of aggression must be justified.
that is the law of civilized society.
that is the law of nations.

in other words, we return to my eloquent repost,

(which apparently went over your head the first time,
but you can answer now without penalty...)

"how are they not a war crime?"

[pinniped]

34. The 'suspected' drones have made a reappearance.

I think these reporters are ordered to write 'suspected' before U.S. drone in these 'suspected' U.S. drone stories.

There sure are a lot of suspicions and unknowns in this article.

[bemildred]

35. So what is the drone suspected of? nt

[Devil_Fish]

40. Murder. NT

[Piewhacket]

41. NT