Health Care Comes To Screeching Halt - Sen. Webb: No HCR Votes Until Brown Seated

[Dr.Phool]

Source: TPM

TPMDC
Health Care Comes To Screeching Halt - Sen. Webb: No HCR Votes Until Brown Seated
Christina Bellantoni | January 19, 2010, 9:49PM


Less than 15 minutes after the race was called for Republican Scott Brown, the first of what could be many conservative Democrats asks for leadership to put the brakes on health care reform.

Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA) congratulated Brown on his win and delivered a zinger:

"In many ways the campaign in Massachusetts became a referendum not only on health care reform but also on the openness and integrity of our government process. It is vital that we restore the respect of the American people in our system of government and in our leaders. To that end, I believe it would only be fair and prudent that we suspend further votes on health care legislation until Senator-elect Brown is seated."



Read more: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/health-care-comes-to-screeching-halt-sen-webb-no-hcr-votes-until-brown-seated.php?ref=fpblg

---

Stick a fork in it. It's done.

[BlueIdaho]

1. Good to see Webb has decided to protect the rights of the republican party...

[EFerrari]

20. Can you imagine a Republican saying such a thing?

Good grief.

[DBoon]

33. ask Al Franken

he might have something to say about their gracious behavior when defeated

[hack89]

64. So you see no difference between the parties?

We should act like Republicans?

Webb is right and I support him.

[TankLV]

66. Fucking CLUELESS, as usual...

Riiiight - we should sit in the corner and be QUIET and PLAY NICE while the repuke bullies WALK ALL OVER US!!!

But "we're not like the repukes"!!!

Sure path to DEFEAT!!!

But yet you clueless fucks still wonder with your fucking jaws on the floor why we're in this position...

[hack89]

67. We are the party of ethics and morality. Sorry if that offends you.

I have no doubt why we are in this position - a shitty campaign by a mediocre politician. Coakley blew it.

[24601]

83. Despite having attended a semi-accredited vocational school with

Ollie North, Webb has been and will be his own man. Reid has absolutely no power over him that he cares about.

[EFerrari]

275. The Republicans do somethings better than we do,

like supporting their own party.

[hack89]

276. So they are a bunch of mindless marionettes doing what they are told?

That's a difference I can do without.

[RobinA]

74. Republican

Yeah, I can. I consider Webb a Republican, despite the (D) behind his name, and this is EXACTLY what I would expect a Republican to say in this case.

[barb162]

81. No. It wouldn't happen. Tom DeLay would never do that.

[ieoeja]

82. We don't have to imagine a Republican saying such a thing. He just did.

For those of us who remember Webb was a lifelong Republican prior to changing parties to run for the Senate as a Democrat (probably because he knew he couldn't beat the incumbent Republican in the primary).

[No Elephants]

54. Wasn't that his original Party? While I was very glad Webb beat

macaca man, Webb's history has some things that are not pleasant to contemplate.

[t0dd]

2. Sen. Webb: No HCR Votes Until Brown Seated

Source: TPM

Less than 15 minutes after the race was called for Republican Scott Brown, the first of what could be many conservative Democrats asks for leadership to put the brakes on health care reform.

Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA) congratulated Brown on his win and delivered a zinger:

In many ways the campaign in Massachusetts became a referendum not only on health care reform but also on the openness and integrity of our government process. It is vital that we restore the respect of the American people in our system of government and in our leaders. To that end, I believe it would only be fair and prudent that we suspend further votes on health care legislation until Senator-elect Brown is seated.

Read more: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/health-care-comes-to-screeching-halt-sen-webb-no-hcr-votes-until-brown-seated.php

[Moondog]

3. And so it begins .... n/t

[Grand Taurean]

4. Then Obama is gone 2012.

[BlueIdaho]

5. Then the Democrats are gone in 2012.

[kirby]

10. Didnt do much for us in 2008 n/t

[BlueIdaho]

14. So you prefer republicans in the White House and controlling congress?

[diamidue]

22. Hard to tell the difference anymore. n/t

[Frank Booth]

35. Were you born in 2009?

Or were you just in a coma from 2001 through the end of 2008?

I'm unhappy with Obama and very unhappy with the "Dem" congress. But to act like Obama is equivalent to Bush is ridiculous.

Have you woken up every day over the past year worried that you would turn on the TV and find we'd gone to war with Iran, Syria, or North Korea? If you were alive during the Bush years, you'd know that feeling.

I have no doubt that Bush and Cheney were both psychopaths. Obama certainly has his faults, but I feel much more comfortable with a President who's not irreparably deranged.

I doubt you'll be making these snide comments when Sarah Palin is our president -- which grows more likely by the day.

[benh57]

40. I saved this one for the next 'there's no difference' moron

No difference, eh?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4227841

Idiots..

[suigeneris]

274. Skoal!

That no-difference B.S. drives me wild. Like we'd be in fukken Iraq if Gore had taken his seat. Like we'd be in thus fukken Republican Recession. Etc.

Glad you don't let that insanity go by.

[Deep13]

25. Aren't they doing that anyway? nt

[StreetKnowledge]

34. We're headed for that anyway.

[sabrina 1]

52. No, WE don't prefer Republicans in the WH and Congress, that's why

we put Democrats there. Are you suffering from amnesia?

This is the question people are asking: Why does the Democratic Party Leadership work so hard to put Republicans in the WH and in Congress?

[DeadEyeDyck]

55. If HCR fails, BHO in 2012 fails

unless he can repackage the loss ala Bill Clinton. Clinton was a far more flexible. It will take an entire sea change for this administration to survive.

[Lint Head]

6. There needs to be a list of everyone that dies because of no health care

insurance posted everyday. If Personal Health Information was not so guarded this could be done.

[peace frog]

7. Hell, it took the Republicans 6 years

to lose their majority. Democrats may lose theirs in only 4.

WE'RE #1!!! WE'RE #1!!

:puke:

[AWESOM-O]

8. It actualy took them 12 years.

1994-2006.

[peace frog]

12. Well in that case..

my upchuck factor just raised to the nth degree.

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[t0dd]

9. What could possibly happen

is the House could pass the Senate bill with a promise that they'll pass a bunch of fixes in a reconciliation bill later on. Otherwise, yeah, it's dead.

[Dr.Phool]

11. If they pass the Senate Bill, as is, there is no reconciliation.

It goes to Obama for his signature.

Any fixes would have to come through later legislation.

[t0dd]

15. That's what I said

The "later legislation" is a reconcilliation bill that tries to fix the innumerable problems of the Senate bill that is passed.

[harkadog]

19. Future bills can be filibustered.

Reconciliation can only be used for budget items.

[t0dd]

21. The idea is you fix the Senate bill with reconciliation immediately afterwards

So you still get the insurance reforms, and then you revive the public option/medicare buy-in to pay for an excise tax "fix". That would fall under the budget.

[customerserviceguy]

43. Yeah, the Senate is gonna "fix" the things that they didn't vote for

the first time around. Yeah, that's gonna happen.

My prediction: if the House is goofy enough to pass the Senate bill as it stands, union members won't vote for Democratic House members in 2010. They negotiated a deal with the Obama White House, they don't believe that the election of Scott Brown changes that one iota.

It would be a sure recipe to destroy our base.

[t0dd]

62. Yeah, they'd only need 51 votes.

They didn't vote for these other things because they were stripped from the bill to appease a few conservative Dem narcissists. There were 51 Senators that would have voted for a "level playing field" public option and 51 votes for drug reimportation.

But since you seem to know it all, why don't you enlighten us with how any bill survives then? The House isn't going to pass the Senate bill alone.

[customerserviceguy]

69. I don't think any bill is going to survive

Frankly, I think the Obama Administration bit off more than it could chew with HCR. America voted for change, and that meant leadership, not saying to a corrupt Congress, "Whatever you come up with, I'll sign."

If the President had convened open committees to discuss the various ideas that we've only heard about when they float out from backroom meetings, there might have been a chance that the American people would trust the process under which HCR is being crafted. The Landreau deal, the Nelson deal, the capitulation to Lieberman, and even the secret meeting with the union leaders that said that they were going to be exempt for five years from being whacked with the Cadillac tax all tainted HCR, and that's what went down in yesterday's election.

There are only two ways to possibly accomplish HCR, the first is to hope that the economy recovers, America's short political memory fades, and we get true progressives in 2013, if not in 2011. If our Blue Dogs get dumped in favor of freshman Republicans, we have the chance to come back with some solidly progressive candidates in the 2012 election. The other is for the President to say, "I've learned my lesson, can we come together as one country, Democrats and Republicans, and fix our health care problems?" Since HCR is probably radioactive at this point, it's not going to happen, but it might re-establish the trust that America put in Barack Obama to stop the polarization that has gripped this country.

[t0dd]

16. .

[Blasphemer]

13. How very convenient

As much as I hate the HCR bill and think that it has been watered down to the barest of bones, I have no doubt that it still too much for conservatives (of both parties). Whatever slim hope I still had that they would fix it is completely dashed. This result is perfect for conservatives and other insurance industry whores. Either they kill it or make 100x worse. Either way, they win.

[Historic NY]

17. Waterloo, boy that sure sounded familar.

[Ter]

18. Wow

Is he for real?

[Reform]

23. heres blitzer reporting it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq1_LO-pfKs

[Deep13]

24. Webb doesn't actually decide that. nt

[totodeinhere]

26. No, but Uncle Harry will probably bow down and kiss the conservative Dems asses...

like he usually does.

[Deep13]

30. Maybe if we move further to the right...

...the right will move closer to Hitler. There already is no real "left" in this country. Now there pretty much is no center either.

[totodeinhere]

70. Yup. n/t

[qanda]

27. Time to flip the script

If the Republicans want to block Health Care Reform then we need to let them take the blame for blocking Health Care Reform. They have no ideas and as much as we need to do something, they want to do nothing. In a small way, I'm glad the brakes are being put on this, but I'll leave that for another time.

[Frank Booth]

36. That would actually take some creative thinking on the part of Dem leadership.

I'm pretty sure that doesn't exist.

[SandWalker1984]

28. I wouldn't call the Corporate Health Insurance Profits Protection Act health care reform

It's merely a bailout for the insurance corporations because they realize that thru baby boomers moving to Medicare in large numbers and many others dropping insurance due to affordability issues, their profits were going to nosedive over the next 10 years. The Senate bill has so many loopholes for the corporations, it's pathetic.

I worked my ass off to get Obama elected, so he could end the Iraq war, restore our constitutional rights regarding our government spying on us and make some significant reforms to the current health "care" system. What did I get in return? A Rahm DLC turd pile with a flower stuck on top, then they told me how nice it smelled.

Does anyone here really expect Rahm to get the message sent by the people of MA?

Of course not. Obama need to FIRE RAHM and bring some non-DLC advisors into the White House asap or MA will be repeated in November.

[bertman]

39. Well stated, Sandwalker. You nailed it.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

56. Good luck. DNC policy is to support incumbents, no matter what. Just ask Lamont.

[juajen]

53. I must agree, so I do. NT

[area51]

72. +1 (n/t)

[New Dawn]

29. The GOP also supports the fascist Individual Mandate.

And they'd be more than happy to let this thing pass with less than 60 votes (so that they can pretend to campaign against it this fall). The country needs to continue voicing their opposition to it.

[placton]

31. I am sure had the outcome gone the other way

the GOP would have fought for the Dems, as Webb is for the Goopers. On the other hand, the health care Senate bill SHOULD die - and by dying does the Party a favor. They can blame the wingers for no health care, without having to defend this horrid bill.

[KamaAina]

32. WTF is Webb doing congratulating that POS?

Quick, name the last time a repuke congratulated a Dem on a win. :eyes:

[No Elephants]

57. It's pro-forma. Obama called Brown, too. So did Vicki Kennedy, though

I bet she cried in private.

[villager]

37. So much for Webb doing the "Democrats" much good. Of course, the Dems don't even fuckin' know who

....they are, or are supposed to be.

The Republicans do --with the smug self-assuredness of most sociopaths. And the feckless mob responds to that.

[Dr.Phool]

38. They had a chance to get HCR right.

HR 676 was short, sweet, simple and easy to understand. But, they had to get all of their corrupt cronies and donors in on the action. This is what we wind up with.

[No Elephants]

59. I doubt HR 676 ever had any real support, despite its 100 co-sponsors. For one thing, it

was filed in 2003 and never made it to the Congressional Budget Office. And, if it ever did have any real support, that went out the window during the 2007-2008 Democratic primaries.

[bertman]

41. Webb got the part about "a referendum not only on health care reform but also on the

openness and integrity of our government process" exactly right.

How many of us, the little people, were invited to sit in with the President and Rahm and Wall Street when the LOOT was being divvied up?

How many of us, the little people, were invited to sit in on the discussions with Big Pharma and Big Insurance while the deals were being cut?

Zero. Zilch. None.

The open and transparent government we were promised by our President didn't even survive the first month after the inauguration.

Now maybe we'll get some Change. If not, we'll know for sure that our Democratic party is totally and unequivocally run by and for the DLC.

[RainMickey]

45. Amen brother. n/t

[dgibby]

79. Bingo! n/t

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rury]

46. Not surprised here

I have long had the feeling that there are a lot of white congresscritters who don't want Obama to succeed.
Fuck 'em all and I think I'm through with politics.
Too many racist SOBs just don't have the back of our first black president.
I officially hate this country and feel like buring a flag!

[kayla9170]

48. Now, this is a statement, I can agree with tonight!!!

:yourock:

[Puglover]

68. And I officially

think your post is a crock of crap. :hi:

[dgibby]

77. As was the one above it. n/t

[bertman]

85. Since I didn't see the Deleted Message that you are replying to I'm not SURE what it said,

but I'm assuming from your comments that you think Jim Webb is a racist. If you're not saying that I apologize.

However, I'd like to point out that Jim Webb has been trying to pass legislation to correct the abuses of our Prisons for Profit system and the horrific sentencing that sends people to prison when they should not be there. Given that our prison population is made up of a majority of people who are not white people, I find it strange that a racist would endorse such reform, much less be the person who pushes for them.

[No Elephants]

58. I voted for Obama in the primary and in 11/08. Race was not the reason I voted for him

either time. I must confess that I was pleased that we broke the race barrier for the first time (that we know of), but that was secondary. And I did not get disappointed with Obama bc of race, either.

I very much doubt that was the reason anyone else who voted for him got disappointed. And who voted for him was a clear majority of voters in America.

[Guilded Lilly]

44. Fair and prudent are not in the Republican dictionary

"It is vital that we restore the respect of the American people in our system of government and in our leaders."
You can't restore the respect of the American people in our system until your party steps up and respects the rights and needs of the American people. Two way street. And frankly, embracing the Republicans who unscrupulously screw us at every breath is not a great way to restore our faith in you.

[420inTN]

47. WTF?

Why aren't they ramming it down the repugs faces?

[Ian David]

50. Oh, fuck. And I contributed to that douchebag's campaign. n/t

[Justitia]

51. I feel your pain. Between him & Barney Frank, I've never seen rats jump ship so fast.

Damn, these guys rolled over faster than I've ever seen before.

:puke:

[No Elephants]

60. Didn't Webb start as a Southern Republican? What's Frank's excuse?

Oh, yeah. Frank's from Massachusetts and probably now worried about his own seat in November.

Funny how deep their principles run, isn't it?

[No Elephants]

61. Since Brown's victory was decisive (gag), he will get certified very soon anyway. They should have

voted a week ago. The handwriting was certainly on the wall in capital letters by then. Worst case, they could have promised House Democrats they could file an amendment to the bill the day after the election, if Coakley pulled it out.

[cascadiance]

63. Need to get rid of the fillibuster rules before to "prepare" for his taking office!

THEN we can get some things done instead of just having a DO NOTHING CORPORATIST Senate.

Senate Democrats that care whether we have a party in the coming elections! Will you do what is NECESSARY to start working for the people again? It IS the time to change the rule to 55 votes or get rid of it.

You don't and the Democratic Party will start going down for being the useless entity it's been of recent years. It's time to decide whether you are more loyal to the Democratic Party and the people its supposed to represent, or your corporate backers and who care about their rule more than either party's agenda or whether they win or lose.

[TankLV]

65. Webb is THE reason why dems are FAILING!

Yeah - don't LEARN from what bush* rammed thru after LOSING the the first "selection"!!!

Yeah - don't want to "be like the repukes" - just sit and play NICELY in the corner, why the repuke bullies walk all over us - THAT'S the ticket!!!

[reformist]

73. It's people like Webb that gave Dems the 60 votes in the first place.

[fascisthunter]

86. yuh... a lot good it's gotten us

people like him are poisoning the Democrats. With democrats like him, who needs the GOP?

[Stumbler]

71. You mean THIS is the screeching halt? I thought it happened a while ago

[Jefferson23]

75. The health care reform that never came to be.

[high density]

76. See, Senators like Webb still haven't learned yet

Nothing will enlighten these guys.

[Blue_Tires]

78. I don't get it...

#1: WHY does Webb supposedly get to make the decision on when to vote? Isn't that Reid's job??

#2: WHAT purpose does it possibly serve to stall things so the conservatives can put up 100 more roadblocks behind the scenes??

[dgibby]

80. If the bill should go back to the Senate, he won't vote for it until Brown is seated.

He's concerned about the public's reaction to the back room deals, lack of transparency of the process. I think he's right. He's looking at the backlash to come and trying to save the Dems in '10, imo. At least, I hope that's what he's doing.

[Smashcut]

84. And everyone cheered when this DINO was elected, since it was the "best" we could do

in Virginia.

Well maybe that's true, but having a Democrat do the Republicans' job for them is actually worse than a Republican doing the same thing, in that it undercuts the rest of the party.

[sabra]

87. No US health reform action till senator seated-(Sen. Harry) Reid

Source: Reuters

Source: Reuters
WASHINGTON, Jan 20 (Reuters) - Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid yielded to calls from members of both parties on Thursday and said the Senate would take no additional action on sweeping healthcare legislation until Republican Senator-elect Scott Brown is seated.

With Democrats scrambling to decide how to proceed on the healthcare overhaul that was a major issue in the Massachusetts election, Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, who helped write the bill, said the legislation was "alive and well." But he gave no indication on how Democrats would succeed in getting a bill to President Barack Obama. (Reporting by Donna Smith; Editing by David Alexander)

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/WBT013537.htm

[WolverineDG]

88. Gutless wonder strikes again

seriously, why do they even bother to call themselves Democrats? Might as well vote for the Rs if the Dems are just going to roll over & play dead.

dg

[Ganja Ninja]

89. Who couldn't see this coming?

Typical Harry hard ass Reid. Seriously how can people watch this man in action and think we don't need to purge him and his ilk from this party?

[totodeinhere]

90. I wish we had a credible challenger to Uncle Harry in the Nevada Dem primary.

Otherwise, I'm afraid it's another puke victory in November. I won't shed any tears over losing Harry except that for every new puke we get in there the harder it will be to pass anything progressive. But it's not as if Harry is helping with that very much either. This whole mess is just so frustrating.

[Sherman A1]

91. But, what he didn't say

was the House could adopt the Senate version, pass it and it's pretty much done. May or may not happen, but Harry doesn't get a vote in the House.

[BlueIdaho]

92. Don't blame Harry - the President says the same thing...

I can't decide if he is poorly advised, too insulated by the beltway, or pathological people pleaser...

[atreides1]

98. At this point

I'll go with "pathological people pleaser", the problem is it's not "We The People" that he wants to please

[BlueIdaho]

106. Very sad but very true! nt.

[daa]

93. Harry Reid will be out of office B4 health care passes eom

[bikesein]

94. Don't Stall

We have the House by a wide margin, the Presidency and the Senate by a wide margin and the election of 1 senator is going to cause everyone to sit on thier hands? Yes, let's not take any action, just let everyone without insurance sit around waiting for Brown to arrive and help the republicans stall any good bills.

[Rapanui1]

95. The Gutless and the corrupt---Harry and Pelosi

Until Harry and Pelosi are at the helm all our efforts are in vain. I will not work for the dems until these two vermin are gone

[Betty]

96. why not just let the repigs openly resume their reign of terror?

why even pretend there's an actual democratic majority? It's only on paper, since they clearly have not one set of balls between the lot of them.

[southern_belle]

103. +100 for Betty! eom

[Odin2005]

97. Proof that it is the Corporatists that have a majority, Not us.

The Blue Dogs are on the same side as the Republicans.

[The Wielding Truth]

99. Why? If he can't lead he should quit. What a waste of power!

[AlinPA]

100. Reid will be gone from his position after November. Somebody tougher, like

Sen Boxer will stand up to the republicans.

[timeforpeace]

101. Webb said jump, Harry said how high? Who's really in charge?

[harun]

102. What day is Brown seated?

[Hubert Flottz]

104. "Harry Reid yielded"

What else has Harry EVER done?

[Orrex]

105. I believe that he has also acquiesced and capitulated, too.

He's no one-trick pony, that's for sure!

[0rganism]

107. not to mention surrendered, folded, and demured

I think he may also have retreated once or twice. Sen. Reid has a vast repertoire!

[kpete]

108. Obama to Senate: Don't "Jam" Through Health Care Until Brown Seated

Source: ABC News

Exclusive: President Obama Says Voter Anger, Frustration Key to Republican Victory in Massachusetts Senate

Obama to Senate: Don't "Jam" Through Health Care Until Brown Seated
By KAREN TRAVERS
Jan. 20, 2010

President Obama warned Democrats in Congress today not to "jam" a health care reform bill through now that they've lost their commanding majority in the Senate, and said they must wait for newly elected Massachusetts Republican Scott Brown to be sworn into office.

One year into the president's term, George Stephanopoulos interviews Obama.

The president also said the same voter anger that swept him into office in 2008 carried Brown into office on a stunning upset victory Tuesday night over heavily favored Democrat Martha Coakley.

"Here's my assessment of not just the vote in Massachusetts, but the mood around the country: the same thing that swept Scott Brown into office swept me into office," the president said in an exclusive interview with ABC News' George Stephanopoulos. "People are angry, they are frustrated. Not just because of what's happened in the last year or two years, but what's happened over the last eight years

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Politics/president-obama-scott-brown-massachusetts-victory/story?id=9611222

[Cronus Protagonist]

109. Sorry, but Obama lost quite a bit of MY political capital today

He's totally asinine.

[anakie]

205. maybe so

but can you imagine the alternative? I am sure a Mccain/Palin presidency would be much better than what Obama is doing/has done. Not.

Peace

[liberation]

228. You are totally correct!

Can you imagine a McCain/Palin Presidency? I shudder to think about it! We wouldn't have a proper health care reform, the wars would still be going on, social spending would have been slashed and military budgets would have been increased, WallStreet would not have been held accountable, Bush et al would still roam free, and... Oh, wait.

...Seriously when the best defense some of you can come up to justify the policies of Obama are either ever diminishing standards and/or what amounts to black mail. I would think some of you would take a couple of minutes to figure out where and when you took the wrong turn.

[AllyCat]

239. +1

[jonathon]

255. +100

If justifying policies that would be opposed under Republicans is what we receive with democratic majorities, we are a long way away from reclaiming representative government for the people.

[still_one]

235. No, but maybe Hillary would have been a better choice. The more I think about it

I believe she would have fought harder

[AllyCat]

240. Maybe on some things, but she campaigned on mandated insurance purchases

That was THE major reason I did not support her, and why I didn't support Obama until he was the nominee. Then he kind of backpedalled from the mandates and I thought "well, maybe he'll be okay". Not that it matters. The corporations get who they want.

[still_one]

243. True, but forgetting about the elements of HCR, I believe she would have fought

harder. I did not believe that at the time, but in retrospect she stood up, and that bothered a lot of people

Obama wants to be loved by everybody, and not only will that not work, but it will get everyone mad at him

[dbonds]

254. She is still DLC, wouldn't have been much different.

[DailyGrind51]

237. Maybe, things would have gotten so bad, that McCain/Palin would have been single term

and a Progressive hard left would have come roaring in during 2012?

[dbonds]

252. Thats not the only alternative I can imagine.

Dean/Kucinich would have been a nice alternative.

[Socal31]

264. Kucinich?

Good luck with that.

[dbonds]

267. It would be good luck if he was in that position.

Hard to imagine anyone better.

[scytherius]

261. It is PRECISELY that approach/attitude

that has gotten us IN this mess.

The lesser evil is still evil. No more. Not gonna do it anymore. Let the Palin's have it. It will collapse and we can rebuild. This is like chemo for a terminal patient that is in horrible pain. Just let em die.

[Fearless]

251. +1

[Pirate Smile]

110. He was only talking about the Senate. That wasn't regarding the House passing the Senate Bill.

[still_one]

238. No, the house has already fallen in line with Barney Franks and others

essentially saying the same thing

[superconnected]

111. Well, Obama is right when he says we're frustrated over what happened over the last 8 years

but for me it's more like the last 40.

[Riverman]

233. Frustrated - what mealy mouthed language. As a human being I am OUTRAGED!

I am appalled, righteously angry at not just what Bush and the Necons did, but even more so for the weak democrats who colluded with them to let them get away with everything over the past decade. That Obama has refused to hold anyone accountable - not the Bushites, but his own CIA, Treasury (filled with Wall St thieves), Attorney General's staff, and his Chief of Staff. I too an disgusted with the political leadership since at least the 60's - my memory doesn't go too far before then!

Instead of change we voted for, now we get excuses - well change takes a long time, as he repeated on MLK day. Of course it does and even longer if no steps are made in its direction!

[CreekDog]

112. I'm glad we are so fair when people are suffering

I guess politics is bean bag, except to the people who have lost everything. :grr:

[HALO141]

169. The ends does not justify the means.

When you make bad law now rather than good law later simply because it's expedient then you are unprincipled and undisciplined. Regardless of one's political affiliation, that's never a good thing. Proper procedure and ethics are just as important when constructing legal doctrine as they are in the detention and interrogation of terror suspects.




We shouldn't abandon fundamental principals because we find the current situation unpalatable.

[CreekDog]

174. it's not unethical

how is it unethical?

that's like saying don't put the fire in my house out because you'll get a lot of stuff wet. :wtf:

[liberation]

230. The misery and suffering of others is the VERY same reason why some of us feel passionate about

getting this legislation right from the get go.

Some people are using that same misery and suffering to shield an awful piece of legislation from the proper scrutiny and criticism it deserves.

[D23MIURG23]

223. What principle?

You talk as though political hardball is a war crime. Let me tell you, if the Democrats are going to change anything, they have to get over their bipartisanship fetish. The only end the Democrats will get with the current means is an end to their terms in office.

[ShortnFiery]

113. Obama to GOP: Thank you Sir! May I have another!?!

:thumbsdown:


http://www.brainygamer.com/.a/6a00e39824440288330120a5dc96d4970b-800wi

[BunkerHill24]

119. C'mon man! That's unfair and uncalled for. n/t

[Lasher]

218. You are 100% wrong.

It is fair and it is called for. Obama might as well just go ahead and give them all blowjobs.

"The same thing that swept Scott Brown into office swept me into office." How pathetic! For the life of me I really thought Obama was smart.

[dhpgetsit]

266. There is some truth to that.

"The same thing that swept Scott Brown into office swept me into office."

However Brown campaigned on defeating HCR. Obama is now going out of his way to give him that chance?
What is he smoking?

OTOH, Brown supported and voted for RomneyCare, and the Senate bill is built on the same model. So it is highly hypocritical for Brown to want to defeat this HCR bill, flawed as it is.

[24601]

234. Do you think he would trade a 2nd term for HCR if he could? n/t

[scytherius]

263. No. I don't. n/t

nt

[24601]

272. Neither do I. I used to watch West Wing and when Bartlett was

seeing the shrink (Adam Arkin?), there was one exchange that went something like,

"Lincoln did the right thing even though he know it would cost him half the union. You wouldn't do the right thing if you thought it would cost you Michigan."

[Donnachaidh]

131. LOL!

Sad but true.... :rofl:

[nimvg]

220. No Wonder...

...he was killed by his own men in Vietnam.

(grin)

[Lasher]

245. ...

[dbonds]

256. More like, Glad we got a new excuse, the others were wearing thin.

[Hosnon]

114. THIS is his first major statement on the issue?

He needs to be doing the opposite of this: fighting for real reform, not putting his tail between his legs and moping around. We still have an 18 person edge over the GOP for Christ's sake!

[Democat]

188. 41 > 59

If the 59 are spineless Democrats with a leader who seems to want to please Republicans more than Democrats.

[Hosnon]

194. Apparently so - I can't believe this is happening...

Does Obama need all 535 congresspersons to get his agenda through?!

[peace frog]

115. Says it all, doesn't it

Welp, maybe we can try again for real, meaningful HCR in another half-century or so. Yeah, that's the ticket.

[Hosnon]

118. Yep - how disappointing.

Were the election this year, I would not work on his re-election campaign. I know that's not much of a punishment but it is in one distinct direction...

[earthboundmisfit]

116. Mmmph

Damn I'm sick of reaching across the aisle, bipartisanship, being fucking nice, and taking the fucking high road!

[OffWithTheirHeads]

117. I guess he just does not get it.

[FiveGoodMen]

142. He gets it

He's on the other side.

[RobinA]

173. Not Sure

he's on the other side. Maybe he just cares more about being the Bipartisonator than the details of the actual policy.

[MissDeeds]

183. He cares more about being the bipartisonator

than being a Democrat.

[FiveGoodMen]

184. If he's more interested in how the GOP likes his initiatives than in how they affect Americans

he's on the other side.

[MissDeeds]

195. Right

He came out too strong for reaching across the aisle from the get-go. He was far more concerned about placating the right than serving the Democratic party and the needs of the people.

[liberation]

244. I think it is more a function of liberals needing to stop putting center-right politicians

in charge of effecting and enabling a liberal approach to politics.

If we keep electing center-right politicians, while wondering why those center-right politicians are passing center-right legislation. Then I am afraid to say that liberals are a pretty naive (borderline moronic really) bunch.

Look at what we have elected to "represent" the middle and lower working classes: A speaker of the house who is a San Francisco socialite who hasn't had to put a full honest day of work her entire life, our supposed senate majority is led by a burned out fundamentalist mormon ex-boxer, our Secretary of State was a "Goldwater Girl" and the former president of the College Republicans chapter at her Alma Mater (during the whole Watergate years no less), our vice president gets residuals every time he utters the words "visa" "Mastercard" or "American Express" in public, and our president is a guy so liberal... he considers Reagan not just one of the best American presidents, but as one of his political inspirations.


So here is a radical idea, why don't liberals support actual liberal candidates if they expect liberal policies to be defended and enabled? I know, it just doesn't make sense does it?

Good grief...

[FiveGoodMen]

259. I agree, but...

When did I have a chance to vote for anyone decent?

I could have written someone in, but they wouldn't have won.

Kucinich wasn't really even allowed in the game.

Dean (four years earlier) was steamrolled by the M$M.

The DLC makes sure that no one who's worth a damn gets to play.

As long as it's a two party system, we're screwed unless at least one of those parties is any good.

The pukes went from jerks to monsters.

The Dems went from milquetoasts to puke enablers.

Decent people have to get control of one of the parties or else we have to kill one of the parties to make room for a better one.

[KamaAina]

120. So, basically, he's saying he doesn't even want the pathetic bill that was on the table

he wants something even more pathetic, authored specifically for -- or by -- Snowe, Collins, Ben Nelson, and Lieberfuck (now only the second-worst Senator in New England!) :eyes:

[mzmolly]

152. He's probably looking at breaking up individual portions

of the bill, forcing the R's to vote for or against the specific needs of voters. This strategy was laid out by Fineman on Olbermann last night as a possible way forward.

[24601]

212. Hey, Brown may be a repug, but he's loyal to his party and values.

So although we may have disagree, I wouldn't cast him as the worst - just as an opponent. I'm waiting to see how he & Chuck get along - if they live up to that famous Senate collegiality.

[tekisui]

121. Why wait? He isn't trusting Brown is he?

[bkozumplik]

197. ahh I see the chess move now

Wait till brown is seated, ask him for his list of demands, and then put those into the bill.
Pretty sneaky Obama.

pure genius is what it is. He sees Brown as another chance to earn a vote, not a teabagger who is going to block whatever is suggested.
That way we are back up to 60.

/snark

[AllyCat]

242. Snark appreciated. I've decided I don't like chess much anymore

[subterranean]

122. Sounds like he's still committed to his "bipartisanship" fantasy.

He still doesn't get that bipartisanship is a one-way street to Republicans. They regard it as a sign of weakness.

[bbgrunt]

128. in these times bipartisanship IS a sign of weakness.

[subterranean]

148. I agree 100%.

[Name removed]

179. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MilesColtrane]

225. .

[HALO141]

227. No.

You're not getting it and that's fine.

I think we're done here.

[MilesColtrane]

231. .

[NJmaverick]

123. President Obama is right about one of the main factors that got Brown in

and he is right not to try and play games that will only serve to piss off the public even more.

[Critters2]

132. As a member of the public, I'd like a health care bill passed. Thanks for asking nt

[NJmaverick]

139. I would like it passed as well, but can you imagine how this would play out in the

right wing media? There would be a poop storm that the Dems would never recover from. The main theme was that the Dems deliberately went against the will of the people by ramming it through.

[Mithreal]

153. Right, corporate media has been so fair until now.

We should worry about how it will play at Faux, right.

[NJmaverick]

162. Until the left deals with FAUX news in some effective manner

that is always going to be a problem. However even with a biased media you never want to give them ammo. The stuff based on a grain of truth is 10 times more effective than their usual made up crap.

[Mithreal]

170. No.

They are an echo chamber. I say invent a corporate death penalty, give them the right to defend themselves, and if they fail then escort them into the fast lane at the guillotine. Their viewers are mostly true believers. They just make shit up though and no one who obeys them or is brainwashed by them thinks to wonder if there is ever a grain of truth.

Maybe you are talking wrt to some sort of casual viewer of theirs who thinks and questions what they report and gets dragged into the rest of the brainwashing because they see a kernel of truth?

Yeah, I would worry more about how the actual truth looks to the people who can think for themselves rather than worry about how it plays to the authoritarian/conservative worldview types who will always be with us and could give a damn about truth thinking it was something that can be shaped rather than can exist. I am more concerned with how all this is viewed by the people who fight for this party and expect that the Democratic Party is supposed to be for the people not just 100% for the corporation while offering so-called incrementalism to the masses.

[Tempest]

166. Utter rubbish

Coakley was defeated in large part because Obama has willingly bent over and taken it up the ass from the Repugs.

Coakley got the majority of votes from people who want health care reform. Two polls conducted last night in MA proves this.

[bitchkitty]

172. Tired of letting the media decide.

Why should the media dictate policy?

[MilesColtrane]

229. .

[Smashcut]

268. Well, by all means, let's do everything we can not to anger the right wing media.

:eyes:

[freddie mertz]

136. Il presidente ha sempre ragione. nt.

[Tempest]

164. Obama is dead wrong

Two polls conducted in MA last night proves Obama's wrong.

Coakley was defeated because of this kind of shit.

[asdjrocky]

180. The last thing Obama wants to do is piss someone off.

Unless it's a liberal, it's all too clear he doesn't care about us.

[xchrom]

124. Similar to what sen Webb said.

And Webb used to work for Reagan.

[aquart]

125. SO? WTF should we wait for a Republican to do ANYTHING?

What an amazingly alienating remark. Still hoping they'll pat him on the head?

[rudy23]

127. He LOVES the "pressure" from the right b/c it gives him an excuse to move the party

We know this is the DLC's goal. How do Republican victories hurt this goal? They don't.

[Mithreal]

157. When he said make him do it, I didn't realize he was talking to rightwingers.

Just like when he said he was going to do a lot of things you wouldn't like, I thought he was talking to rightwingers there too.

I will keep calling the White House and my reps. Thankfully I can call the Congress toll free. I can protest and be ignored, won't stop me. Can participate locally in my Party. More and more I think I need to infiltrate the other party and very carefully sew doubt and dangerous ideas. We are all going to have to get more creative.

Tip of the hat to orleans
LIST OF TOLL FREE CONGRESS SWITCHBOARD PHONE NUMBERS


1-800-828-0498

1-800-459-1887

1-800-614-2803

1-866-340-9281

1-866-338-1015

1-866-220-0044

1-877-851-6437

Contact the White House
You can also call or write to the President:

The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
Please include your e-mail address
Phone Numbers

Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX: [phone]
TTY/TDD

Comments: 202-456-6213
Visitors Office: 202-456-2121

[DuaneBidoux]

126. He hasn't learned, and refuses to learn anything.

No wonder Republicans don't think we can deal with terrorism: they watch how we let ourselves get kicked around by them and figure it's natural.

Maybe it is. If healthcare goes back to the Senate it is dead, and so are the Dems in November.

Damn, I've got to find something else to start caring about, this is excruciating.

[veganlush]

185. that's funny, i just said the same thing to my wife..

..just a minute ago, I told her I have to find a hobby or something else to care about-politics is killing me!

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hosnon]

130. Riiiiight. nt.

[Name removed]

133. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MineralMan]

137. You want the Republicans in there? No, thanks.

Uff da!

[DuaneBidoux]

156. If failure by either our party or the Republicans is the choice then yes.

I'd rather have them fail.

In my opinion we are not really getting anything systemically fixed and without systemic fixes the coming problems (inevitable in my view) are going to make what Bush left behind look small. We are still reinflating bubbles--we are not doing anything about the wholesale private redistribution of wealth toward the top several percent that is leaving everyone else barely hanging on.

In that case I would rather have the Republicans be in there. At least they would be running things on their word and when the failure hits it will be real obvious that the ideas they preached were carried out and it was the ideas that were responsible. What's the point in taking the blame as Dems if we're going to run things as if we were Republicans?

[MilesColtrane]

236. Republicans not only fail but take the whole country with them.

See the last eight years.

[MineralMan]

134. You are the weakest link...

[Critters2]

135. He's always been a centrist. Always will be. I'll never understand

people thought he was a progressive.

[Demeter]

141. This Isn't Centrist--It's Oblivious

[RobinA]

176. Totally Agree! nm

*

[FiveGoodMen]

208. We didn't get many choices

It was always down to Hillary -- who campaigned on doing this same shit -- or Obama, who said he wanted to change things.

That was the best choice on the menu.

And it turns out to be an utter lie. There's almost nothing Bush did that Obama wants to change.

We had a right to expect better than this.

[Blue-Jay]

143. You so funny

Tell me you are a plant because you can't possibly be this ignorant and petulant.

[ShortnFiery]

146. Yes, I wish I could get my donations back.

My family teases me and breaks out in laughter at the word "hope."

I feel completely dejected. I even stood in the rain for SIX hours to wait for him and Biden to speak at Fredericksburg, Virginia.

Boy, no fool like an old fool. :(

[DebbieCDC]

175. This old fool is right there with you

I thought I could spot a con man a mile away by now, but I got taken in too

And so did a LOT of others on this board but they'd rather die or blame a progressive than admit it.

[Name removed]

158. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[geardaddy]

165. Ralph Nader, is that you? n/t

[freddie mertz]

138. WTF? This makes less than no sense. "Sorry, Never Mind."

This takes "no drama" to the next level.

[Demeter]

140. Obama--Still Clueless

Somebody lend him a copy of Emma.

[bluestateguy]

144. That has nothing to do with passing the Senate bill in the House

Then do the reconcilliation fix in the Senate.

I'm actually inclined to agree with him.

On edit: I'd actually like to see the whole interview before saying any more.

[Ozymanithrax]

149. The Senate bill and house bill are in Conference committee to combine them...

and make them the same bill. Once the committee has finished, the House and Senate will vote on the Conference report to accept or reject it. (That report could be just to accept the Senate bill as is, with changes, etc.). If the House and Senate accept the report the bill goes to Obama for signing. If they do not, then it is start all over.

The current Senate bill can no go for "Reconciliation" in the Senate. As I understand it, a Reconciliation bill must go to committee, be written, and then come up for a vote. According to the rules, reconciliation bills must be deficit neutral and limited in scope.

Do you really think the Senate will try to do this again in an election year after Republicans, Massachusetts' progressives, and Massachusetts' liberals said they don't want Health Care? Those who opposed th is health care bill will soon be celebrating the status quo and the death of 45,000 people a year because they do not have health care.

I'll be wearing black.
***EDIT***
It has been pointed out to me that if the House just votes to accept the Senate bill, it will go straight for signing. I hope they do that.

[harkadog]

150. Who, other than on DU, is even proposing this?

[Ozymanithrax]

145. Can the Republicans with their new 41 votes keep the conference from coming up...

for a vote?

If so, then Obama has just asked that health care be defeated.

Curioser and Curioser.

[MilesColtrane]

247. Yes, they can filibuster the conference report.

[AlphaCentauri]

147. Obama needs to be more specific about the last 8 years

What happened in those 8 years, please explain so we can remember.

[Myrina]

151. ... Brown was 'swept into office' because Obama et al did NOTHING ...

... to resolve the abuses of the past 8 years. Instead we get "bipartisanship" and behind-closed-doors summits and billions thrown at the millionaire criminals who raped us in the first place, while we're hanging on to our homes and careers by our fingernails.


DOES HE NOT GET THAT??? :wtf:

Seriously?
I'm starting to wonder just how 'bright' this man is, if he truly can't see the truth.

[Iowa]

154. Unbelievable. This guy is a complete disaster.

Unfortunately, we have three more years for him to do damage. In one short year he has expanded Bush's disastrous war-about-nothing, participated in the biggest corporate welfare scam in history (and opposed regulatory reforms like Glass–Steagall), refused to prosecute torturers, payed homage to the Republican ideology at every opportunity, completely trashed health care reform, contributed greatly to the loss of Ted Kennedy's senate seat... In everything but brand-name, we have a Republican in the WH.

Just wait until he gets his hands on Social Security.

[tomm2thumbs]

155. Obama '...the same thing that swept Scott Brown into office swept me into office'

if he recognizes that fact, then why hasn't he acted like the President who was given a mandate by the people?

[Betty]

159. glad to see he's still sucking up

to the party that was supposedly repudiated only a year ago. Clearly, elections have no meaning or consequences unless a repug wins.

[bikesein]

160. This is sad

Not only Obama but Reid and Webb all saying they need to wait. We have the Presidency, the House and the Senate by a big margin of 59-41 and we have to wait for this one republican to get there?? Govern don't stall!

[Hubert Flottz]

189. "59-41"

Did you forget about Lieberman and the Zell-Out blue dog "Democrats?" We never had a supermajority. We never had 60 votes in the senate on anything that would help 98% of the American people. Government by the wealthy and for the wealthy is what we still have to this day.

"CHANGE" is what's left in your 401k...

[Xenotime]

161. That is so sad to hear that....

I want to cry..

[Gin]

167. as a member of the voting public...I wanted to see some reform

on the financial mess before he spent all this time on HC...so..I agree..I am angry..the issue that brought us to our knees has not been dealt with..and the banksters are laughing all the way to the bank...I voted for change...

I see no backbone on the dem side all the way to the top. (IMO)

[Democat]

186. Dem backbone?

We haven't seen any in a long time!

[cap]

163. I wonder if this is going to be smart...

or too smart for our own good... It will give brown a chance to make his position clear on health care reform....

So what's Brown going to do ... about it.

[rayofreason]

168. I really didn't expect...

...Obama to fold so fast.

My head is spinning.

[muriel_volestrangler]

171. Dammit - 40 votes to avoid cloture is a technicality, so it should be OK to use a technicality

to pass it now. There's no way that Brown is going "to be part of that process". He's a guaranteed filibuster if it comes to that, and he won't negotiate either - his campaign was 'kill the bill'. He'll be one of the most intransigent Repub senators.

Since the Repubs are using a special rule (that they can delay all legislation forever if they have 41 votes to do so) that isn't very democratic, then the Dems can use a special rule (that Brown hasn't been seated yet) to get through something the Senate already voted on. If the House is OK with that, of course. I think Obama has been so hands off so far, he can't suddenly stick his oar in to tell the House what to do.

[Mithreal]

177. Are we about to get Snowed again after already being Rahmatized?

Tip of the hat to madrchsod

[asdjrocky]

178. Of course he did.

God what a wimp.

[Democat]

181. Obama is constantly taking the blame for things

That is not what America wants from leaders and it's a great way to become a one term president. Every time anything goes wrong, the first thing the Republicans do is blame Obama, and lately he's been agreeing with them. Like it or not, the American people do not want a president who constantly says he made a mistake. When did you ever hear Reagan or Bush blame themselves for everything going wrong? It's just stupid politics.

[Mithreal]

198. If people were fired, taking responsibility might make some sense.

I can think of a short list of resignations that progressives would like to see immediately. Resignations, not just at the behest of Glenn Beck anymore.

[24601]

241. Disagree - there has been a year of "we inherited the worst. of...."

Meanwhile, be honest - how many here DON'T blame Bush for 9-11. What IS the statute of limitations for blaming the previous crowd of yahoos for whatever is f'd-up? No wonder the voters puked.

[Ter]

182. How did he win the nomination?

Just tell me how?

[Hawaii Hiker]

192. I voted for Obama in the primary & naturally the general,

but even back in the primaries, i didn't think he was tough enough...He wants to be the Republican's buddy, instead of saying "Hey, I won the election" & I set the agenda...Obama is more worried about not hurting Republican's feelings...Well, he's wasting his time because Republcians have no fucking feelings, they are like the Terminator, a machine that knows no pity or remorse...

Jesus Christ, Bush never had a 59-41 majority & he got every God damn thing thru (ie; Iraq, tax cuts, judges, etc.)...

Maybe Clinton should seek the nomination in 2012...

[Ter]

215. I voted for him in the general

But not the primaries. I wanted to see someone in office a long time and really evaluate their views. A one term Senator didn't cut it for me.

[Mithreal]

199. Hope and change message. Is going to be a tough sell next time.

[ieoeja]

222. He ran in every primary and caucus.

He split the first three primaries by carrying the rural counties while Hillary concentrated her campaign on the urban vote (irony alert: after working hard to depress the vote in Las Vegas, Las Vegas County ended up being the *only* county Hillary carried in Nevada).

After that it was apparent to everyone -- except the Clinton campaign -- that the primary was going to carry long past Super Tuesday. He prepared. She did not. He won.



If your question is, why did people vote for Obama, they voted for him because the central theme of his campaign was to represent all Americans. Not White America or Black America. Not rural America or urban America.

Do I have to repeat the whole speech that made him famous?


--------------------------------------
In another words, they voted for Obama because they wanted him to be bipartisan.
--------------------------------------


We see these divisions on DU all the time. Rural, White Americans want the right to carry firearms when they visit the city ignoring the reality that an African-American caught with a firearm, even legally, is going to be treated like a criminal and is far more likely to be gunned down by the cops than use his firearm in self defense. Urban Americans want to ban firearms in rural America ignoring the reality of dangerous animals and that it typically takes 20 minutes or longer for the police to reach your home in the country.

Rural Americans have this dumbass idea that the suburbs are "the same thing" as the city. Urban Americans have this dumbass idea that the suburbs are rural.

Obama knows rural America. Obama knows urban America. He successfully bridged that divide in the election.

And so he won.

[zonkers]

187. You don't fight fair against bullies and that's what they are. This is pathetic.

You punch a bully back. It's all they understand. Just ask Alan Grayson. From swiftboating to "election stealing", they have stopped at nothing. I am so bummned. Screw this Marquis of Queensbury BS.

[Mithreal]

203. 100% agreement. Kick bullies asses. Only learned that as an adult.

I was an athletic type during my school years and bigger than all the other kids at a young age. No one messed with me. Only learned after stepping into political arenas that bullies deserve not just disdain, but it is so empowering every time to see them run from confrontation. They expect no one will stand up to them. I had no idea they were such cowards. Would be careful taking them on in groups without backup though. I really don't think President Obama has learned how to respond to bullies. Blame it on his not being confrontational. If I wasn't confrontational I would never have learned the lesson.

[williesgirl]

190. That piece of shit bill should NOT pass. Everything good has been removed and only

benefit now is to corporations, not people. They need to put the public option back in, remove the mandate to purchase private insurance and go for it! They only need 51 votes with reconcilation. If we're going to piss folks off a little, let's do it with something meaningful.

[Red Knight]

191. Good omen for the next three years

If you liked what these guys did with health care, just wait until they tackle education, social security, a second stimulus, and so on.

The Republicans will continue their cooperation and we can expect that to get better now that they smell blood in the water.

Obama either knows exactly what he's doing and is there only to serve the bankers--or he's a fool.

I doubt he's a fool.

[crim son]

193. There had better be some grand plan we're all missing here b/c

otherwise we are being seriously screwed by the candidate of our own choosing.

[Mari333]

196. whole lot of republican ass kissing going on

a lot. thats it, then.

[Reform]

200. Im starting to think that maybe behind the scenes.......

There is a possible deal made with Brown,
I mean common, how else could he win mass.
His campaign was ran pretty neat, tidy and heavily funded.
Right after he won Webb calls for a freeze on the senate vote now this?
I think something else is going on here and it is made to appear a different way.

We already know Brown is for socialized medicine after he voted for it in Mass.
Most progressives don't like the senate bill and there had been a loud rumbling as such all over msm about it up to the Mass election.

Howard Dean said last night the Senate health care bill is written by the insurance companies.
No i think they are going to crash the Senate bill and come up with a much more "progressive" one and you will see Brown vote for it.First gathering the accolades of helping to defeat the senate bill,then shortly there after signing on to the more progressive legislation for good measure to keep and build support in Mass.

Call me crazy but i gotta dig into any possibilities here
whats that thing it use to be called, oh yeah..............Hope

[Orrex]

201. But that would make Brown the most important Senator and savior of HCR

Why would Obama do that for the junior Senator from Massachusetts?

I've been beating my head against this, and I can't think of a single good reason why Obama would call for deferential reconciliation with the 41-Republican majority. I mean, 24 hours haven't even passed since the election, and already he's going out of his way to accommodate Brown.

:wtf:

[Reform]

206. thats what i mean it dont make sense, but....

check out this quote from Brown's news conference today

"I voted for health care here.... we're past campaign mode and it's important for everyone to get some form of healthcare. So to offer a basic plan for everyone I think is important.. there are some very good things in the national health care plan that is being proposed"

Sen-Elect Scott Brown (R-MA) to visit with Senators in DC
http://c-span.org/Watch/Media/2010/01/20/HP/R/28644/Republican+Scott+Brown+wins+MA+Senate+Seat.aspx

i think he is going to put a knife in the tea baggers back

time will certainly tell

[Orrex]

207. That's an interesting quote, but even so...

it still makes Brown seem like the most important member of the Senate, and certainly the most powerful. And if he does vote for HCR, then he'll be painted as the hero on the national scale.

I'm not reasoning very clearly on this, I admit. I'm too disgusted and disheartened to think straight.

[KansDem]

202. Yeah, sure, since the Dems had the reputation of "jamming it through" before the MA election.

I sensed "jamming" going on, but it wasn't to get HCR through the Senate...

[Deep13]

204. pussy nt

[Fearless]

253. K&R!

[BobRossi]

209. What a fucking tool!

Does he even know what side of the bread get's buttered?

[City Lights]

210. Ugh.

x(

[D23MIURG23]

211. So long health care bill... you were never very good anyway.

Which doesn't make it any less of a shame.

[Ter]

213. So when does Brown get seated anyway?

We have to wait for that? Oh boy...

[mistertrickster]

214. DRIVE IT OFF THE JACK!

Back when I was in high school, we had this neer-do-well friend named Bob with semi-functional drunks for a mom and dad.

One day, Bob was working on his car and he couldn’t get the jack to release and let the car down. So his dad comes out in a bathrobe and sun-glasses, holding a cigarette and a martini.

In a gravelly loud mumble he says, “Drive it off the jack, Bob. Just drive it OFF THE JACK!”

We laughed until we practically peed ourselves.

From then on, it was always, “Drive it off the jack, Bob. Just drive it OFF THE JACK!”

That’s what Obama should do.

Drive it off the effing jack.

[Alcibiades]

216. They didn't know what to do with 60 votes

Before Franken was seated, they blathered about not having 60, how everything could change once that happened.

Once it did happen, they let Snowe and others play rope-a-dope with them.

Now they only have 59, and so have the comfort of their old excuse back. Whew! Looked as if they might have to do something for a while. What a relief!

[uberblonde]

217. Is there a nice way to say, "Go screw yourself"?

If not, well, President Obama, go screw yourself.

[Doc Martin]

219. OMG

[MilesColtrane]

221. Apparently all of this "reaching across the aisle" is to administer hand jobs.

He doesn't get it.

[closeupready]

224. No, and at the age of what 48?, he never will.

His political inexperience is showing here, brazenly.

[DutchLiberal]

226. He's not working for us!

He seems to be working for the Republicans.

Not that it matters much. The stripped-down health 'reform' bill sucked anyway.

[still_one]

232. There will be no doubt now, if HCR doesn't happen it will be Obama's fault

For 9 months he bent over backwards to try and compromise and include the republicans in discussions, and for 9 months they told him in no uncertain terms that their goal is to defeat any proposal that the Democrats bring up

He believes that strategically the people will view this as a wonderful approach, enlightened, and open-minded

I'll tell you what they will view it as, a sign of weakness, and it will be reflected in the upcoming elections

We already have enough evidence that this will not work, and if and when that becomes a reality, I will wish that Hillary won, because I believe she would not have put up with this shit this long, and would have fought

[haydukelives]

246. I feel

like the president has betrayed me. One year in and nuthin.
Thanks for all the nuthin Mr. President.

[bowens43]

248. what a mistake Obama was.........

every day this guy does or says something else to piss me off...........

no Obama, it 's what's happened since you took office that is frustrating me. You had the opportunity to make difference and you blew it.

[dbonds]

249. Is he really that politically blind, or does Rahm have his hands over his eyes.

Either way that is incredibly stupid reading of yesterday.

[vanbean]

250. WE NEED SOME LEADERSHIP.

We need Dean or Grayson to lead us. This is absurd. It makes me ill. So many people in this country are really clueless, and it rests right on the shoulder of Rush Limbaugh and Fox news and all of those liars. The rest of the world knows what time it is, why can't Americans? I posted earlier about KKOB in Albuquerque: That radio station lies ALL DAY LONG! And it works. You should hear the ignorance of the people who call in. It makes me sad and sick. What is wrong with Obama? Was he threatened? We will find out someday, but it will be too late. I'm worried sisters and brothers. I really am. WTF!

[baldguy]

257. If Obama can't lead the Democratic Party to do what the country wants

Or, more importantly WHAT THE COUNTRY NEEDS - then he deserves to be a one-term President.

[dhpgetsit]

258. After Brown campaigned on defeating health care reform?

WTF???

[valerief]

260. So the prez really DOESN'T want HCR? I don't understand unless we get Medicare for All. nt

[ShortnFiery]

262. OMG! It just came to me as I watch Gibbs spew his over-confidence on The Ed Show.

With regard to the passage of the Healthcare Reform Bill, the Obama Administration is playing the role of Monty Python's Black Knight.

"It's just a flesh wound!" :crazy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXY9TuuwyL8&NR=1

[rug]

265. Until? Like it'll happen after he's seated.

If this piece of shit bill was worth anything I'd say ram it.

[Stuart G]

269. Two words say it all....How Sad...

Cut it back.."
...When we need a stronger plan

I can only say this...

This man is not the Obama that I voted for...

How Sad...

[julian09]

270. Bill is not going back to the senate

That is why they are willing to let him be seated. They can't just ram it through over public displeasure.
They will lose both majorities.

[winninghand]

271. Webb is an honorable man.

[ShortnFiery]

273. "... and Brutus is an honorable man."

:(