Obama now seeks pared down health care bill

[Divine Discontent]

Source: AP

WASHINGTON – Chastened by the Democratic Senate loss in Massachusetts, President Barack Obama and congressional allies signaled Wednesday they will try to scale back his sweeping health care overhaul in an effort to at least keep parts of it alive.

A simpler, less ambitious bill emerged as an alternative only hours after the loss of the party's crucial 60th Senate seat forced the Democrats to slow their all-out drive to pass Obama's signature legislation and reconsider all options.

No decisions have been made, lawmakers said, but they laid out a new approach that could still include these provisions: limiting the ability of insurance companies to deny coverage to people with medical problems, allowing young adults to stay on their parents' policies, helping small businesses and low-income people pay premiums and changing Medicare to encourage payment for quality care instead of sheer volume of services.

Obama urged lawmakers not to try to jam a bill through, but scale the proposal down to what he called "those elements of the package that people agree on."

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul;_ylt=AhXmeomkcWLBgakpSbvLhXG9IxIF;_ylu=X3oDMTNjbW52ZjZtBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwMTIwL3VzX2hlYWx0aF9jYXJlX292ZXJoYXVsBGNjb2RlA21vc3Rwb3B1bGFyBGNwb3MDMgRwb3MDMgRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3JpZXMEc2xrA29iYW1hbm93c2Vl

---

:eyes:

[Avalux]

1. Fuck. REPUKES won't agree on any of it. n/t

[wordpix]

125. stop the knee-jerk rxn: this could be a GOOD THING

Pass parts of the bill that are easiest to pass. Dare repukes and Blue Dogs not vote to cover people with pre-existing conditions. Pass one chunk at a time and have a debate on each part.

Not such a bad approach.

[Ken Burch]

129. There's nothing short of what's left the Senate bill that's worth passing by itself

It's a defeat if it's only "no preexisting conditions" and mandates.

[CBHagman]

135. I agree. I'd rather start SOMEWHERE.

Granted, I am disappointed that what's there isn't as strong as I wanted. But I don't go with the "Nothing is better than something" option. All the 'cans have to do is block and run out the clock and then say the Dems did nothing.

And you're talking strategy, which I'm all for. Too many people are running around like Chicken Little these days...

[Posteritatis]

199. Won't that just create a pile of bills that will also never pass?

It's hard to overstate how terrified conservatives and libertarians are of real health care systems; it would probably be easier to legislatively convert the United States to Islam than get them to back any reform, especially under a Democratic president.

Add to that the fact that the Senate's decided you don't need to filibuster to filibuster anymore, resulting in them requiring a supermajority for absolutely anything at this point...

[wordpix]

205. here are the pros of trying to pass the bills one at a time

1. Passing the "easiest" ones, like pre-existing condition coverage, could give us wins, instead of making progressive Dems look like losers if nothing gets passed.

2. If repukes and conservadems won't vote for "easy" coverage bills, they're toast. All you need are ads with real people who have real health probs who are denied coverage or continuation of coverage, to turn voters against the party-ers of NO.

3. One bill at a time gets a real debate going on each separate issue and is something the public can better understand than the sausage-making going on to date. The tea party crowd who are against this part or that, or overall against "big government" and therefore against all HCR, will have to enter the real debate on each separate issue. Let the repukes answer, "What do you do about the family breadwinner (or child) who has cancer, who's denied coverage for a pre-existing condition? What's YOUR proposal to give this person affordable medical care? Do you prefer kicking such people out in the street when the medical costs bankrupt him and/or the entire family and they lose everything?"

As Howard Fineman said on Rachel yesterday, DARE the anti-HCR crowd to vote no to covering people with pre-existing conditions; DARE them to vote no to covering people who get sick who are tossed out by their insurance cos. There are plenty of real people who would do ads and talk shows to talk about it.

4. With a couple of "easy" bills passed, such as pre-existing condition coverage and continuation of benefits coverage, then we might have a chance to tackle "other" such as expanded Medicare.

[Posteritatis]

215. While you have some points, I can't agree on #2

There's a reason I can't overstate how frightened the right is of any kind of health care reform whatsoever. If a Republican or (hypothetical) libertarian representative voted not to extend any kind of coverage - even to the most think-of-the-children!-type demographics - or if they voted not to prohibit insurance companies from engaging in Terrible Tactic X, Y or Z, they would be cheered for it. How will they react to those ads? With disdain - some of them are getting deep into "the poor don't warrant health coverage" territory - or outright denial, like the whole "they can always go to the emergency room" schtick that's become popular lately.

There's enough of a population out there that equates any kind of change whatsoever in the health care system to be morally identical to harvesting kidneys off random passers-by that I can't really accept that they'd get too strong a rebuke for opposing even the most trivial of change. And that's without taking into account the almost equally great fear the Republicans have of anything with the letter D appearing near it; they really have spun themselves up into believing fighting anything this administration does is something upon which the fate of human civilization hinges.

Remember, three quarters of the senators think prohibiting people from suing their employers for being raped by them is okay. They aren't going to react any better to something they've ridiculously convinced themselves is Stalinist.

[BrklynLiberal]

2. there are no words...

:banghead: :cry: :thumbsdown: :nuke: :grr: :spank: :wtf: :silly: :crazy: :puke: :mad: x(

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. Really learned his lesson last night, eh?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

3. Jesus fucking christ.

Do they learn nothing????

[Bolo Boffin]

5. Fuck.

A huge majority of Obama voters who also voted for Scott Brown said they did so because the Democrats were kowtowing to Wall Street and killing the public option.

And Obama's response is to gut health care reform even more. The bill came out so fast, you know it was sitting in someone's out box waiting for Scott Brown to win.

Kill the bill.

[No Elephants]

131. Without exit polls, how does anyone know that Obama voters voted for Brown, let alone why

they voted for Brown?

[clear eye]

182. There were no exit polls, but there were post-election polls. n/t

[laughingliberal]

186. Dean's group DFA and Moveon did post election polling. nt

[HillGal]

156. That's so silly, they want the public option so they voted for Brown? when Coakley

was supporting the public option? Is it just me, or does that sound insane?

[clear eye]

179. Actually it was more about not wanting a mandate W/O a public option.

Since they were pretty sure that once elected Coakley would vote for the Senate version that the WH was backing, which was just that, I guess they thought it was better to vote for someone who promised to kill the whole thing. Apparently voters really hate Romney-care and are desperate for improvement. Of course, most Republicans voted against the bank bailouts, too (knowing full well they would pass), so the backlash against that helped Brown as well.

To answer your question--yes, it's just you.

[laughingliberal]

187. I believe the problem is there was no public option and she said she would vote for the bill

People knew there was no public option in the bill and they did not want that bill.

[Bolo Boffin]

195. Was Coakley going to pull the public option out of her ass?

Look at these numbers:

1,168,107 votes - Scott Brown
1,058,682 votes - Martha Coakley

1,104,284 votes - John McCain
1,891,083 votes - Barack Obama

Scott Brown got over 60,000 more votes than John McCain did in 2008. Martha Coakley got 840,000 less votes than Barack Obama.

What does that tell you? Depressed Democratic base, excited Republican base. People that wanted a public option didn't think Coakley could deliver one - and why would they?

[frustrated_lefty]

196. They didn't vote for Brown. They stayed home.

[villager]

6. "pared down?" From fucking *what!?*

Unless he means "pare down the concessions to insurance lobbyists." Which he doesn't.

[jgraz]

24. I dunno. There's still a few things they could cut off

:shrug:

[LiberalFighter]

87. Well they don't have any nuts to cut off. They lost them years ago.

[tomm2thumbs]

149. I agree - I see a little too much tail on the thing still - cut away

[Arctic Dave]

7. I would say Obama could go fuck himself but the Obama cheerleaders would be angry.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

19. I'll look the other way this one time.

[GOPBasher]

35. Oh, I've been defending Obama for a year, but I'm definitely done now. I'll say it with you:

"Obama can go fuck himself."

[Stuart G]

40. I have to agree...Obama will not fight for a good bill..and

he can live with this shit...

.But he doesn't have to..He has a great insurance policy..

Remember when he talked about that? He sounds like a turncoat to me..

[Segami]

112. Obama & Co., the only team trying to win a football game without

mounting a sound OFFENSIVE running & passing ATTACK strategy against the toothless opposition. Progressives will think twice the next time around. I guess standing up to the special interest groups as the people's choice ' Champion ' is way too big of a shoe size to fill for Obama.

[SammyWinstonJack]

220. He's just revealing who he always was . A DINO.

[salguine]

94. I'll say it for both of us. Obama can go fuck himself.

[Iowa]

101. I'm with you. Obama can go fuck himself.

[still_one]

133. I am a cheerleader, but all I can do right now is say fuck it, if the story is true

I wonder if he realizes how much damage he is doing to the country and the party

I now wish Hillary had won, and I was a big time supporter of Obama

[No Elephants]

148. Why would you think Hillary would have done anything differently? Obamadmin

is full of former Clinton people and Hillary is a DLC/Third Way/New Democrat founder. Plus, according to stories, we'd be dealing with ongoing Clenis affairs, too.

Face it, every primary candidate but Kuch and MABYE Biden were corporatists, but Obama seemed as though he might not be. I fell for it, but I started to wake up when Obama appointed Rahm, cabinet members and "czars." Almost all or all are either Clinton re-treads or out of the Chicago political machine.

On edit. Oh, I forgot. Or Republicans, like Gates, Geithner and Bernanke. Lord knows, no Democrat is capable of handling Defense or finance. (Oh, well. At least he didn't appoint Phil Gramm.)

[KakistocracyHater]

171. let's just call them Neo-Liberals & Neo-Cons, BOTH Righties, BOTH WRONG

*

[emilyg]

169. Go for it.

[rudy23]

8. Take note for the fall elections--Brown's win is good news to a WH who WANTS to pare this bill down

If you want to see a lot more stories like this at the beginning of next year, we'll work hard to elect Progressives this fall.

Dems in 2010--to spite the party leadership.

[FBaggins]

9. Looks like the first step of a two-part strategy involving reconciliation.

N/t

[Bolo Boffin]

13. I'll believe 11 dimensional chess when I see it.

Until then, all I see is a feckless White House ignoring the actual voice of the voters.

[timeforpeace]

30. They're still trying to figure out checkers.

[Autumn]

151. Checkers? Hell I would

say they are still playing Candyland.

[No Elephants]

158. If you believe some, we're seeing it all the time. We just don't realize it bc we're too dumb.

THAT's how far ahead of us Obama is.

Maybe he even got Scott Brown elected so he could ram single payer through via budget reconciliation. Just wait. You'll see. Then, Democrats will be very popular Then, Obama will put up someone more liberal and likeable than Coakley to run in Massachusetts against Brown. Scott Brown will lose his re-election bid and Massachusetts will be blue again. Meanwhile, the nation will have single payer, so a couple of years of Brown will be worth it.

O ye of little faith. Just wait. You'll see.

:tinfoilhat:

[laughingliberal]

190. lol! that was really good. nt

[high density]

10. Bye bye any idea of cost control

Seriously, what did we elect these people to do? They have been spinning their wheels and accomplished nothing since late spring on health care reform. Not to mention the adjustment from health care reform to health insurance reform. Then we completely let that sink. The votes thus far have effectively been worthless for anything but theater since we still don't have a law.

I guess there goes the hope of the Democratic party waking up and realizing that GOP-lite isn't going to grow the base.

[FiveGoodMen]

11. KILL. THAT. GODDAMNED. BILL.

[Myrina]

108. +10

n/t

[GinaMaria]

134. + infinity

[Jim__]

12. Pared down?

It's already toothless. Are we going to pull the gums now?

[Stand and Fight]

176. No, they're fucking performing a decapitation. n/t

[Edweird]

14. November will find them in a cold and lonely place.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

15. All morning we were hearing how...

...they were driving harder toward the progressive base.

What the hell happened over lunch?!?!?

[high density]

22. Maybe the AP is punking us for about the 1968702304981205978th time?

I dunno. It's quite frustrating whatever it is.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

23. Is that an exact count?

:D

Personally, the more I hear them talk about the reconciliation process the more we do need to pursue that route but for REAL HCR, not corporate wealthfare.

[Wardoc]

43. Those words were just to mollify. This is more of the bait and switch they have been playing. (nt)

[SemperEadem]

16. just scrap the bitch and start over--how about doing that?

how about just going for single-payer and be done with it.

[mbperrin]

109. Yes, single payer is the only option that will actually get health care

for all. Period.

Hated it when it was kicked away from the table at the start.

[paulflorez]

163. Single payer will not happen

Americans are too satisfied with their employer provided health care which they think is cheap/affordable.

Seniors have Medicare and they've pulled the ladder up after them.

Single payer will only happen if a majority of Americans are unsatisfied with their employer provided health care.

If employers did not have to provide health care, and people had to pay the full premium out of pocket, but still get the tax cut that the employers were getting, it might still be affordable but they'd see how much it really cost and be much more worried. Health care premiums are deviously affordable because people don't know how much in wages they lose to keep their premiums low.

I'm not saying this to claim who is right or who is wrong, I'm saying it based on my experience, I'm saying it to be realistic. If my experience is contrary to the facts, then I'm open to some unbiased evidence.

I don't understand why it has to be single payer or nothing. I don't understand why change had to happen all at once within the first year. I want to see 8 years of progressive accomplishment, not 1 year. I want to see more small progressive victories like the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Act. I want to see a return on the ban of commercial and investment banks merging. I want to see the banks brought down a size where if one fails it doesn't bring everyone else down with it. I want to see an investment in high speed rail. I want to see an investment in renewable energies. I want to see an Employment Non-Discrimination Act. I want to see Don't Ask Don't Tell undone.

If people just walk away, none of that will happen.

[mbperrin]

216. Actually, every poll and election proves that Americans favor single payer.

http://www.wpasinglepayer.org/PollResults.html

Here are 16 polls conducted by widely different organizations, and they all show that the majority of Americans want single payer.

Politicians don't want it because their owners, the insurance companies, don't.

[paulflorez]

218. Every poll, except this one...

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/december_2009/34_favor_single_payer_health_care_system

On that page you linked to, all those polls were from Summer '09. I took a look at the Time poll (don't have enough time to check all of them) and the time poll was 49% support SP, 46% oppose and 5% don't know. That is rather weak support, not a solid majority and as you can see from the more recent Rasmussen poll, has shrunken considerably. For SP to be viable, support for it has to be able to withstand attacks in the form of propaganda. People need to think that it's critical, not just that "it would be nice" or "I'd be ok with it." Even more telling from the Time poll is this:

Q10.
ARE YOU CURRENTLY COVERED BY ANY
FORM OF HEALTH INSURANCE OR HEALTHCARE PLAN?
YES 89%
NO, NOT COVERED 11%
NO ANSWER/DON'T KNOW <1%

Q12. HOW SATISFIED ARE YOU WITH THE BASE: HAVE HEALTH COVERAGE & MENTIONED PLAN TYPE (907)
HEALTHCARE PLAN YOU NOW HAVE?
ALL RESPONDENTS ===========
VERY SATISFIED 53%
SOMEWHAT SATISFIED 33%
SOMEWHAT DISSATISFIED 9%
VERY DISSATISFIED 4%
NO ANSWER/DON'T KNOW 1%

Q13. HOW WORRIED ARE YOU ABOUT LOSING YOUR HEALTH CARE COVERAGE IN THE NEXT 12 MONTHS OR SO? BASE: HAVE HEALTH COVERAGE & MENTIONED PLAN TYPE (907)
ALL RESPONDENTS ===========
VERY WORRIED 15%
SOMEWHAT WORRIED 18%
NOT VERY WORRIED 18%
NOT WORRIED AT ALL 47%
NO ANSWER/DON'T KNOW 1%

89% have insurance, 86% of those 89% are satisfied to some level with their insurance, and only 33% of those 89% are significantly worried they might lose it. These people have no personal motivation to support SP, especially once they are hit with propaganda against it. The people have almost no trust in the government after the last 8 years, regardless of whether it's a D or an R. Either the D's will have to help restore public's trust of the government (working out bills outside of the public view of congress isn't helping that) or people's view of health insurance will have to get a lot more negative. Either way, SP is not politically viable. A public option could have been viable, but it seems that the Dems (NOT just the politicians, but also the people who stayed home because they wanted SP or nothing or because they are complacent) dropped the ball.

One thing to note is in the Times poll, 80% of those polled supported making it illegal for health insurance co's to deny insurance to those with pre-existing conditions, with only 15% opposed. The Times poll does not ask about the mandate to buy insurance (I don't know why, this is a critical issue) so I'd be interested how that polled. I wonder if the mandate was dropped but the pre-existing conditions part was kept, how people would feel about that.

Anyways, my point still stands, the political climate is too risky (public distrust of government) and people do not have the motivations to support single payer.

[mbperrin]

223. Your poll nowhere asks people if they want single payer.

Just like the current handout to insurance companies, the single payer was kicked under the table before discussions even began.

Motivations for single payer: it works everywhere; life expectancy is longer and infant mortality is lower. It's also much lower cost.

[mbperrin]

225. I thought there was some issue with Rasmussen, and there is.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/200907070015

Why it's increasingly difficult to take Rasmussen polls seriously
July 07, 2009 12:49 pm ET by Eric Boehlert

The surveys seem to exist solely to advance GOP talking points. Meaning, Rasmussen at times appears to function less as a legitimate polling firm and more as the polling wing of the RNC. Today's new survey about Sarah Palin and the repercussions of her "No mas" moment is a perfectly example.

I have not problem with the actual results per se, which are that 40 percent of Republicans think her quitting the Alaska governorship will hurt her chances to run for the White House in 2012. The bizarre part is that the Rasmussen poll only asks Republican voters their opinion about Palin. Independents and Democrats are of no interest to the GOP-centric Rasmussen. (Just my hunch, but if those two voter groups had been included, I'm guessing the final results would have between 70-80 percent of voters think Palin's career move was a bad one.)

What kind of polling firm, while trying to take the country's temperature about politics, only questions Republicans?

More at link

[Common Sense Party]

155. What odds would you give on single payer passing this Senate?

[Gregorian]

17. What's left?

This is about all I can say about it-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz7_3n7xyDg

[saracat]

18. "Less ambitious" ? How could it be less? It already doesn't have a damn thing in it!

The apparently didn't learn a damn thing yesterday.:mad: :puke: All they learned was bend over farther?

[dflprincess]

20. What else can he give the insurance companies?

A guarantee that there will be no appeals process if they deny your claim?

This is just unbelievable.

[laughingliberal]

193. I've been thinking a mandate to send in our money and maybe we get a policy for it

but not required.

[mike_c]

21. and the march to mediocrity and irrelevance continues....

You know, I just had an idea. The solution to U.S. leadership problems is to start a FOR PROFIT National Leadership Corporation, obtain big investment money, and OUTSOURCE government to the private sector. I mean, that's how we're governed already, why not put it on the table instead of under it? Both parties will stumble all over themselves to give it all the support it needs, and pretty soon it will be too big to fail!

[Romulox]

25. All that with NO MANDATE would be acceptible, incremental progress. nt

[Submariner]

26. Scrap the current HCR, pass Medicare buy-in with a reconciliation vote

51+, and let's just tell the rethugs FU...Period.

Screw this pared down crap for 60 votes.

[Historic NY]

27. Tell me why did we even bother with this issue if ...

its not going to fix the problem only enrich the insurance companies. The Repukes played us for fools be delay & obstruct. This should have been on his desk months ago. The simple thing was medicare for all...but no .

[No Elephants]

154. Medicare for all is, of course, single payer. That went off the table during the primary.

Of course, so did the mandate ostensibly, but apparently Obama was not as opposed to the mandate as he was to single payer.

[Stand and Fight]

177. Because it was the PLAN from the beginning....

Anyone who believes otherwise is fooling themselves. These bastards in Washington -- both Houses of Congress and the White House -- knew this was the outcome from the get-go. It's all been a fucking act. I'm beyond disgust. I feel rage that so many Americans will continue to suffer and die because these assholes continue pussy-footing around.

[No Elephants]

184. How did 40 Senators obstruct 60 Senators?

IMO, Olympia Snowe is a straw man/scapegoat, used to cover the fact that Democrats were fighting among themselves. And Democrats don't want to surface that bc it might cause one or more of them an election. JMO.

But, if 60 Democrats truly cannot best 40 Republicans, then the 60 Democrats are too ineffectual and incompetent to be United States Senators and should be primaried.

Whichever way you slice it, blaming this on 40 Republicans is a cop out, whether Reid does it or we do.

[Buns_of_Fire]

214. Thing is, we never really HAD 60 Democrats.

We had about 45, give or take. The rest were Blue Dogs, DINOs -- and Liebernutz.

[Orangepeel]

28. That sounds like a different bill, which wouldn't necessarily be bad

that sounds like some cost controls that affect Medicare, minor regulations on insurance companies and subsidies to buy insurance. Not much to solve the problem, but it sounds like it would help some people get insurance without mandating it. That's certainly marginally better than we have now.

[JDPriestly]

29. What fools.

Again, the only cuts are to Medicare. No mechanism for lowering health care costs.

How stupid do they think Americans are?

We want lower premiums and better health care coverage.

Is it so difficult to figure out that means a public option or single payer?

Nothing less will be helpful.

Better nothing than a bill that will raise prices across the board.

Obama missed his chance.

The only good thing about it is no mandates. That would be a start.

[Kelvin Mace]

33. But, but, but

all those highly paid consultants are telling Obama not to listen to you and I. They know that the American people really want the system they have now, except with more profits for the insurance companies that are holding the pillows over our faces and calling it health care.

This is why the DNC/DCCC/DLC PAYI these guys millions of dollars that WE DONATED to get health care reform enacted, so the consultants can tell them what we "really" want, and to pay no attention to what we are actually screaming at the top of our lungs.

Stupid voters.

:sarcasm:

[0rganism]

31. so this is it? this is the "change I can believe in"?

These endless compromises... what a waste of time they are. The GOP will stonewall EVERYTHING president Obama tries to do so he can be ridiculed as a non-starter do-nothing halfway bureaucrat in 2012.

He may as well be criticized for trying to do something people wanted done in the first place. That's the high ground, and he could choose to stand on it any time, instead of grubbing around in the mud, looking for things to give away in unrequited compromises with the insurance lobby.

[tblue]

100. Change you can bereave in.

"The dream will never die." What in the world woud Teddy say if he heard about this?

[Ken Burch]

140. It's as if the admin dug up Teddy and shot him, just to make sure.

You wonder if this administration ever had ANY core values.

(ok...any core values other than "always surrender to the rich.")

[Kelvin Mace]

32. Well, this rebuts another thread

making the rounds that MSNBC is reporting Obama was going to move left.

I made a cynical remark, and my remark is justified in mere minutes.

By the way, can you fix you post? It's scrolling off the page.

[Faryn Balyncd]

34. NO FUCKING MANDATES ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! . . . Kill the mandate before it kills us all !

[Third Doctor]

36. pare it back?

From what exactly? The bill should have been killed after they threw out the public option but left the mandate in. Whatever good things that are in the bill will have to be cut out too? A lot of the dems never wanted to pass a good bill anyway. Why could the repubs ram things through with less than 60 votes but the dems can't? What's changed? It seems like they have hamstrung themselves.

[WyldRogue]

37. You mean to tell me...

...that the Obama Administration is STILL going to cater to the moderates and take out whatever more to get their support?

You have got to be kidding.....

[No Elephants]

142. What moderates? The Democratic Party in Congress now seems to consist solely of

RW DINO's and those who roll over for them (or pretend to). Even Feingold and Sanders voted for the insurance company bill, as made even more conservative in committee. Even Barney Frank gives credit card issuers nine months to raise rates.

Calling a RWer a moderate doesn't really make them moderate. So, who can you accurately label "moderate" these days?

[Tim01]

38. Why not just ask the insurance companies to write the bill?

:banghead: JESUS FUCKING CHRIST!!!!

[kelly1mm]

104. Again??? nt

[tblue]

105. You think they didn't?

I think they did. Either way, it works out the same. They win. We lose.

[No Elephants]

145. They already did. But it was not conservative enough for the Senate, so assigned Snowe and Joe to

revise it. The ideas of the insurance companies are much too far to the left for today's so-called Democrats.

Welcome to the two Party system-right and slightly righter(but only on social wedge issues).

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

39. Pared down or not, it won't happen

Republicans will bargain, help negotiate further weaknesses, and in the end will vote "nay" in a bloc. It's just a game to them, constituents be damned.

Maybe in another 40 or 50 years ...

[McCamy Taylor]

41. Wow! He gave up fast. A word comes to mind. What is it? Oh, I know.

Spineless. Too bad the Dems did not choose the nominee with balls.

[Chicago dyke]

47. actually, it did.

and it passed over the one without them. historical fact, etc. /funny face emoticon/

[No Elephants]

166. I am a big fan of your posts.

Not so much a fan of using male genitalia a synonym for courage/strength (or female genitalia as a synonym for cowardice/weakness). Courage, spine, backbone, wherewithal--anything gender neutral.

Hey, a uterus is a lot more powerful than a pair of testicles and giving birth is a lot braver than automatically forming sperm. Just sayin'

;)

[BlueIdaho]

42. Pathological People Pleaser or corporate shill - you decide. nt.

[fascisthunter]

44. seems like Mass was an excuse to move further to the right

This man is surreal...

[ellie]

45. Hahahahahahahaha

It is so awful that I can't help but laugh at the absurdity of it all. What the fuck was I thinking?

[humbled_opinion]

46. If Obama is not willing to fight for what he believes in.....

Then why should we support him?

Hillary would have gotten it done...

Just sayin.

[No Elephants]

181. In your opinion. The only available historical evidence says the opposite, though.

[humbled_opinion]

221. Well I was referring to the post Bush era not the Clinton era.... n/t

[704wipes]

48. WTF is left to pare down ?

You watch, we won't even get pre-existing conditions eliminated. Just watch/

[CreekDog]

49. Oh no way...no no no no no no

holy cow.

The way this is going I'm sure health care reform will consist of me being mandated to give Karl Rove a sponge bath.

:banghead:

[Autumn]

157. Word fail me

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[salib]

50. Obama urges pared-back health care bill,Obama urges lawmakers not to try to jam a bill through Congr

Source: MSNBC

WASHINGTON - Chastened by the Democratic Senate loss in the state of Massachusetts, President Barack Obama and congressional allies signaled Wednesday they will try to scale back his sweeping health care overhaul in an effort to at least keep parts of it alive.

A simpler, less ambitious bill emerged as an alternative only hours after the loss of the party's crucial 60th Senate seat forced the Democrats to slow their all-out drive to pass Obama's top domestic priority and reconsider all options.

The 60-vote Senate Democratic majority is needed to overcome Republican procedural obstacles aimed at defeating the legislation.
Story continues below ↓advertisement | your ad here

No decisions have been made, lawmakers said, but they laid out a new approach that could still include these provisions: limiting the ability of insurance companies to deny coverage to people with medical problems, allowing young adults to stay on their parents' policies, helping small businesses and low-income people pay insurance premiums and changing government health care for the elderly to encourage payment for quality care instead of sheer volume of services.

Obama urged lawmakers not to try to jam a bill through, but scale the proposal down to what he called "those elements of the package that people agree on."

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34953876/ns/politics-health_care_reform/

---

Looks like almost the exact opposite of an earlier post WITHOUT a link.

[rsmith6621]

51. Obama Doesnt Learn.......Does he.

The people of MA wanted a PUBLIC OPTION......Obama doesn't learn.......Does he???.

[jpak]

53. People in Mass. voted for a teabagger moran that campaigned on KILLING THE PUBLIC OPTION

What are people smoking these days?

[salib]

62. About 25% of registered voters voted for that guy

and they would have voted for him anyway in most cases.

However, even fewer voted for our candidate.

Keep in mind, it is a 3-1 ratio of registered Dems to Repugs.

Guess who DIDN'T vote?

That is what made the difference.

[jpak]

79. yeah, they sure put Obama in his place - electing the guy who is aganst all things progressive

what are people smoking?

[No Elephants]

150. No, Brown did not campagn on killing the public option. Senate Democrats had already done that.

Brown campaigned on stopping the Democratic agenda, to which Brown sometimes referred to as the Obama agenda.

It appears that Brown's biggest challenge will be telling the difference between the agenda of Democrats in Congress and the agenda of the Republicans in Congress.

[h9socialist]

74. If the people of MA really wanted the public option . . .

. . . they picked a stupid way to show it!!!!

[Iowa]

124. Not necessarily...

The PO was already dead. And the Senate bill Obama supported was a complete disaster. The loss of Ted's seat to that weasel is a disaster, but an angry base has little recourse when faced with a president who lied his way into office only to get there and oppose just about everything they stand for.

[h9socialist]

204. So how is voting for a bloody Tory Republican supposed to help?

[Iowa]

222. It probably won't help.

However, in a system with two corporate parties, elections aren't as important as they once were. I wouldn't do it, but I'd be slow to ridicule a pissed-off voter who decides to use his/her vote like a blunt instrument. If you back voters into a corner, there's no telling what irrational thing they might do... that's not necessarily a bad message to send to the liars and sell-outs in DC. Will it help? Probably not. Will a corporate-owned Democratic party react to its base if the base begins to see them as the enemy and decides they no longer serve a purpose? Probably not. But who knows? Nothing else has had any effect. And with today's Supreme Court decision, the individual voter has even less power.

[h9socialist]

227. It never helps to make things worse!

By the logic you are using, you could justify voting for Ronald Reagan in 1980! That was the single most damaging election of our time. Reagan was a neo-fascist in my book. The world would have been much better off with a second term for Jimmy Carter. And the Left has been struggling to regain its footing ever since.

I campaigned my ass off for Barack Obama last year. I do not like some things he's done, but I am not going to abandon him. Martha Coakley means nothing to me. But she served a purpose. I have no illusions about the Democratic Party. It is the second most pro-corporate political party in the world. I would like to think that the Socialist Party had a chance of replacing it -- like the socialist, social democratic and labor parties of Europe. But somehow, I don't think that will happen any time soon. However, the core of any move to the Left in the U.S. is still in the Democratic Party: labor, African-Americans, Hispanics, women, poor folks, gays and lesbians . . . they are there, still. And even if they are disillusioned, they have not moved in any large way to any other party. In that case, there remains something useful about the Democrats.

In the meantime -- a radical, anti-corporate movement needs to gel, and bring the constituencies of the Democratic Party into a more left-ward drift.

[Iowa]

229. I think you're missing the point...

First, it's not my logic we're discussing, it's the logic of a hypothetical MA voter. Second, this would NOT have applied to Reagan. The dynamics were different 30 years ago. And third, you're veering off into a whole other area.

So... getting back to your original claim: "If the people of MA really wanted the public option they picked a stupid way to show it!!!!"

I'm simply saying that isn't necessarily true. Losing Ted's Senate seat is certainly a bad thing. But when it comes to HCR, the disastrous Senate bill was a fait accompli with 60, and the PO was most assuredly dead. Furthermore, the Senate bill wasn't "reform" at all - it was more like "anti-reform" in the sense that it institutionalized some of the very worst about our health care system while adding even more draconian measures (like mandates, excise taxes, etc.). So logically, the only sliver of hope for any meaningful reform required that the Senate bill be derailed. Now, with 59, the Senate bill is dead. And we're hearing rumblings of passing a few improvements via reconciliation.

As to the big picture, it all depends on what "message" Obama and Congress received. It is becoming more obvious as time goes on that Obama really isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, so we'll have to wait and see. But all of a sudden we're hearing that he's siding with Volcker over Geithner (and against Wall Street), which is a complete 180 for him. So who knows? If they get the message that the base will punish them if they continue down the same disastrous path, that isn't a bad thing. I'd rather have 59 senate Dems who are terrified of the base than 60 who aren't. So I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss as "stupid" some hypothetical progressive voter in MA who was pissed-off and wanted to send a message. Sometimes desperate times require desperate measures.

We'll have to wait and see what, if any, effect it has.

[h9socialist]

231. Okay . . .

1) Massachusetts went for Reagan in 1980.

2) The unfortunate reality is that a whole lot of Dems are reading this a a clarion call to back away from any kind of reform at all. They perceive the tea-baggers winning. The results on Tuesday will do nothing but turn more Democrats into wimps. I know, I live in Indiana, and Evan Bayh is my Senator.

3) The Supreme Court just settled everything yesterday. The government will now be, as (of all people) Pat Buchanan once put it: "the bell-hop for the Business Round Table." The giant-sucking sound is now just politicians sucking up even more to corporate lobbyists.

4) The idea of an electorate being "mad without an ideological compass" has never brought anything positive.

5) I think it's time to admit the obvious: the US Constitution is about 200 years out of date, and without a massive re-write, will crumble soon. THAT IS WHERE THIS IS ALL LEADING!

[Oilwellian]

161. Uh....

A public option does not presently exist in the democratic bill.

[h9socialist]

206. So how is electing a damn Tory Republican supposed to help?

[No Elephants]

168. Which way would you suggest? Phone calls? Emails? Demonstrations? All been done.

At some point, people run out of constructive ways to send a message and get disgusted.

If the two parties are going to legislate alike--or not at all, why stand in line in the snow to vote?

I guess Republicans were excited about sending Brown to stand with McConnell. Few seemed excited about sending Coakley to stand with Reid. And most of the few who were excited focused on little more than her gender and MAYBE her actions post-Kennedy's diagnosis as terminal.

Of the four primary candidates and Brown, Martha was the only one who refused to mention Ted Kennedy, let alone run on his legacy--until, of course, she got in trouble and had Vicki making videos for her.

[h9socialist]

207. Companero . . .

. . . have you ever considered the possibility that the cure to this country's ills -- its ridiculous, capitalist healthcare system included -- lie beyond the boundaries of what the current system can produce? And that to solve the problems some sort of revolution (peaceful, we all hope) is necessary?

[jpak]

52. All those provisons are just giveaways to the insurance industry

KILL THE BILL!

It's worse than what we have now!

:sarcasm:

:puke:

[No Elephants]

170. Do we have a mandate now? An unaccountable board overseeing insurance?

[earthside]

54. Trim. Compromise. Capitulate.

Exactly what I predicted the Democrats would do in the face of the Massachusetts loss: become even more cautious and more risk averse.

Too bad Obama and Reid didn't listen to Schultz and Hartmann today ... they'd have heard just how fed-up people are with this backroom dealing and compromising political strategy.

[glinda]

57. What the hell is wrong with these people??????

[dgibby]

80. They don't want to listen.

That's why Gibbs made a complete ass out of himself on Ed's show

[No Elephants]

160. Geez, sorry I missed it. Shultz is my very most favorite host. .

Smart, down to earth, sensible. Even though he owns guns, he supports reasonable regulation without labeling it "anti-gun."

Good natured and not snarky, but stands his ground, even against fellow Democrats. Loyal, but declines to drink the Kool-Aid.

Can we get him to run for something? then again, maybe he's more valuable right where he is. Apparently, stepping in Washington, D.C. causes ineffectuality.

[dgibby]

208. The video is up on the home page today if you still want to see it. n/t

[btxusa]

55. A "Pared-back health care bill"

A "pared-back health care bill should be pretty simple. Either implement Medicare for All or support HR676. HR676 not only includes how health care will be paid for, but it provides for malpractice claims, increasing the numbers of primary care doctors and nurses and their pay, funding education for more health care providers, and more.

[Beartracks]

78. THIS! n/t

[clear eye]

56. Watch for even the skeleton plan to include the Medicare oversight board

transfering regulatory authority from Congress to this deliberately unaccountable board in the Executive Dept. (no power of recall for members once appointed). It is set up to propose changes (for most aspects of Medicare as in the Senate bill or only for rates and related costs as in the House bill) in a way that would be next to impossible to challenge--as a package that would have to get an up or down vote as a whole w/i 30 days after it was issued over the holidays in December. The currently proposed board allows "experts" w/ conflicts of interest, such as insurance co. execs and people from big Pharma to staff it.

This provision has been a priority of the OMB since months before the health reform negotiations began, and is clearly designed to enable cuts or changes in Medicare too unpopular for Congress to enact on its own authority.

[No Elephants]

162. WOW. That sure hasn't been publicized much, has it? thanks for the heads up.

[clear eye]

175. They're calling it a "commission" these days.

It's another incarnation of the previous IMAC that was proposed by itself before any healthcare bill other than H.R. 676 was proposed. Rep. Rangel blocked it at that time, but the WH wouldn't let it die. The Senate version would allow serious alterations of Medicare.

[bbgrunt]

174. wow--a real death panel......thanks for the info clear eye.

[clear eye]

178. It wouldn't interfere in individual decisions on care,

but it's pretty dangerous to Medicare as a whole.

[KamaAina]

58. Pared back? From what?

It's already pretty pared back. Pare any more, and here's what you'll have:

A BILL to reform health care in America. It may be cited as the "Cute Fluffy Puppies and Kittens Act of 2010".

Section 1. The American health care system will remain in the status quo save for a few minor cosmetic changes.

Section 2. Anyone complaining about Section 1 will be branded a "left teabagger" and marginalized from any future discussion of the issue.

Enacted in Congress this day,

:eyes:

[salib]

59. Don't forget the part about mandating everyone to send a few thousand a year to the Insur. Co's

[KamaAina]

60. Ah yes, the infamous "Salib Amendment"

:-)

[salib]

63. I was taken to a nice bistro in Wash D.C. for having proposed that amendment

So don't knock it!

[No Elephants]

172. Bistro? Sucka. That amendment could have gotten you millions. It did everyone else.

Except the insurance industry. For them, it's billions.

[salib]

210. I guess I am cheap.

A piece of the action is all that is needed to make many sell out.

[Marthe48]

83. We already send 6000.00 to our "insurance"

company and we don't get a damn thing. We pay over $6000.00 for the privilege of having 80% of our costs covered, after we both pay off $1000.00 deductibles. Since we have good health, we pay for absolutely nothing, and we are retired. The Democrats and Republicans can all go to hell. They do not represent me, and they don't give a damn about people, or they would fix this. They have had one chance after another, and they've let every chance go, so they must not want to fix it. Bastards, all of them.

[monmouth]

61. This is pi$$ing me off more than last night. Nothing learned...n/t

[Betty]

64. pared back is a logical impossibility

let's see, they can get rid of the pre-existing condition protection. that would pare it back, I guess.

[Fearless]

65. Does he even KNOW what he's doing anymore??? Seriously.

Throwing shit at a wall and waiting to see if it'll stick... This is stupid.

[Doremus]

66. This punt is embarrassing for some reason. Probably because it's so lame.

Ugh.

Better advisors. Please!

[Kittycat]

67. Fuck him.

Maybe if he would have helped out and stepped in with his own legislation instead of yielding to interest groups and dinos - we'd have a HC plan now. How about this Obama... Run on what you promised. You said you were going to stand up, so do it.

[truthisfreedom]

68. Here's the solution.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4234274

[humblebum]

69. The sad part is that more people will die because they lack healthcare.

I recently had an aunt in her late 40's who avoided seeing a doctor because of the expense. She ignored certain signs and suffered terribly before dying of a bone cancer.

[santamargarita]

70. Ram it down their goddamn throat - with a stick!

Fucking GOP

[Thothmes]

86. the GOP's throat may not be the only one that it gets rammed

down. No coverage for abortion, mandatory purchase of insurance from the big medical insurance companies, no effort to lower the cost of drugs. I would venture a guess that a considerable number of American citizens, GOP and Dem will consider that its not only rammed down their throats, but also shoved up their butts. JMO

[xultar]

71. Wow. Like MSNBC reported earlier...Obama is getting tough. This is proof.

[scytherius]

72. It is time to stop voting.

Dem or GOP they are all the same. Sit down, don't vote, until a real leader appears. let it go down the drain. yeah, we thought it was Obama but he either lied or was corrupted.

Obama must be defeated now. And I worked HARD on his campaign and I don'ated the maximum amount allowed. Never again.

[No Elephants]

139. NO! Look what happened when Mass. voters stopped voting. Dems went further right in 24 hours.

First, get involved with your state Party, so you can influence policy and choice of candidate, as the Connecticut Democratic Party did. (They asked Dodd to step down--and early.)

If that doesn't work, go to the polls and write in someone liberal, whether they are eligible to serve or not, whether they are alive or not. Karl Marx, FDR, Ted Kennedy--anyone. At least then, your staying home will not be spun as a desire for the Democrats to skew further right. Hell, if they go much further right, they're going to be too far right for McConnell.

[Stuart G]

Two words say it all...how sad..

"Cut it back.."
...When we need a stronger plan

I can only say this...

This man is not the Obama that I voted for...

How Sad...

[taught_me_patience]

75. If you pare it back more, then what is left?

Does "pare it back" mean more giveaways to the health insurance industry?

Where the fuck is the Obama that promised change?

[Kingofalldems]

76. There are disruptors in the WH

[Generator]

82. Does that mean Rahm is really president?

You know we said Darth was the real president for years, didn't we. Personally I think Rahm is the new Karl Rove. But unfortunately as adviser he is acting like Rove and not a Democrat.

He's the one out to end the Democratic party forever it seems to me. Either the president is foolish and naive about Rahm, and Larry Sommers, and his national security adviser Mr. I love waterboarding Brennan, or the president is not who he claimed to be.

[BlueIdaho]

77. Medicare E, Medicare for everyone. That's simple enough - yes?

[humbled_opinion]

81. So Obama FOLDS?

[onethatcares]

84. so, we wanted heathcare and got an insurance company bailout instead

we wanted gitmo closed and got a continuation of military tribunals, and gitmo will remain open, we wanted to end the war, and got the "right" war while wasting 30billion a month in the Iraq shithole, we wanted open and transparent government and we can't see anything.

We do get nice speeches though. No more trying to decipher the chimpenator.

I'm fucking burned out. What the hell are "those elements of the package that people agree on"???????

This is like telling every fucking republican that said he would screw us that they were right. In fact, I hear of lot of "how's that change working out for ya". Well, it ain't changing and it ain't working out.

I guess we should give it to the pukes and let them run the rest of the ocuntry into the ground, at least we'll know what's going on while it's going on.

[WyldRogue]

92. Don't forget...

...all of those 'snertzy' pics, surely that is reason enough to let him continuously shyt on us because he looks sooooo good right?

[SlingBlade]

85. OMFG... So THIS is the Lesson ?

Change you can believe in ?

Try Bull Shit of the First Fucking Order. MmmmmKay !

[Pab Sungenis]

73. Fuck this.

This is the worst proposal yet.

[mother earth]

88. This is the same man who said he'd get us out of the war,

instead he escalates it, he was never serious about HC reform, it was obvious from the begining. It's a watered down piece of crap.

Bring back the demand from single payer, with a vengeance!

[paulflorez]

165. Escalating the War in Afghanistan was one of his campaign pledges

I can't believe I'm having to call out a fellow Dem for distortion of the truth. I'm only used to Republicans making false claims about Obama.

[mother earth]

226. Please, he talked about time tables and an exit strategy & he

said he would make that a priority...whatever his exact wording was, please spare me, I don't expect an f'ing contract, but I do expect for Obama to deliver on the anti-war, get us out of there (meaning both) now, spoken or unspoken promise. Don't goddam mince words on this, everyone knew a democratic win was going to get us out of George Bush's war....not to mention the other issues that are like having GW for a third term. Do not patronize me with your explanations, you want to believe the BS, go ahead. He won on hope and change and has delivered neither.

[paulflorez]

230. You heard what you wanted to hear.

When he said he would escalate the war in Afghanistan, I believed him and was disappointed, but I dealt with that disappointment before the election.

He delivered the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Act, that was a big deal to me.

He appointed Sotomayor to SCOTUS, first Hispanic judge, that was a big deal to me.

Many promises not yet delivered but not yet broken either. I'm not about to declare him a failure after one year. I don't give up that easily.

[mother earth]

233. No, it was one issue why he was voted in fo, yeah, he got

Sotomayor in, great, that was truly good, as for the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Act, I'm thinking Matthew Shepard lost his life for that one. With so much to do, he's giving us a whole lot of nothing, and I'm thinking that's going to be the sum of the next 3 years, I hope he proves me wrong.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't give up that easy, but we waited eight long years for rule of law to return, and the first thing he did was let the bastards off the hook, zero accountability for the outgoing criminals, then he escalates the same illegal war brought to us by Bush, continues the bailouts, now he's wanting Scott Brown in on the health care "reform", the watered down to nothing health care reform, that is....WTF?

He's appointed wolves to guard the henhouse. Am I missing the hope and change? You bet. This is neither & I don't expect much else, but more continued corruption and greed...no broken promises, eh? How about simple accoutability? Health care is a joke...yeah, looks like we're going to be in for a BS token prez, he'll be one term.

And now we have the supreme court handing over the country to the highest bidding corporation, again WTF?!!!??? What the hell is going on?

[paulflorez]

238. We need to develop that kind of progressive environment in the U.S.

I'm upset about all those things too. For example, Bernanke, I think the Democrats should revolt against him, but at the same time dumping him might cause havoc for Wall Street and thus the economy. If Obama is going to take the banks down a notch, it's going to cause some panic as is (the stock market has already started going down, although it's been due for a correction anyways).

When it comes to Health care reform, the reality is that the Democrats did not have enough support or power to accomplish what they set out to do. When Medicare was passed, the Democrats had 68 Senators! Granted, it required 66 Senators to invoke cloture back then, but they also had overwhelming popular support from the American public. Attempts to stop Medicare would have been suicide for any politician.

My point is we need to develop that kind of environment in the U.S. This means fighting against the ideas that America's center is conservative, that liberal is a dirty word, that more corporate power is more freedom. Even if the Democrats act like pussy-footing moderates, the change they can establish by simply placing circuit and supreme court judges, by making smaller legislative steps towards bigger goals like health care for all. I don't think they are pussy-footing moderates though, I think that this was just not the right time for the kind of health care reform they were trying to pass. People do not trust the government, a majority of people are not furious with health insurance and health care is a very personal issue. Banks on the other hand, people are furious with and the Republicans will have a much harder time fighting financial reform. Progressives have a huge opportunity to establish progressive policies in the financial sector and show America that progress works.

I'm sorry if anything I said offended you. I felt hurt by some of the things you said and reacted negatively. I don't want Democrats, liberals and progressive fighting each other, I want to see us uniting in both hope and anger against those that want to continue down a path of increased lawlessness and regression. I'm afraid that we are facing a future of Anarcho-Capitalism.

[No Elephants]

183. Never said he'd get us out of war. Said Iraq was the wrong war, Afghanistan was the right one.

[Jefferson23]

89. Sell out is all I have seen so far. Come on Obama, shock the hell out of me in a good way.

[cliffordu]

90. Fuck me. Pare it down any further and it'll just be an anti-abortion law.

[Little Star]

91. How low can we go????? Pare down????

Yeah, that's the ticket! NOT!

[winninghand]

93. Actually, Obama now seeks the path to re-election.

[budkin]

96. If he honestly thinks he's getting re-elected after performances like this he's really out of touch

Oh wait, he already is out of touch.

[No Elephants]

192. Now? As opposed to some point when he was not thinking of a second term?

I think he intended to try for the Presidency for a long time and no one intends from the jump to be a one term President, at least not because performance during the first term rendered him or her unelectible..

[Buns_of_Fire]

217. I think he's already succumbed to thinking about his "legacy."

The entire bill could consist of nothing more than "All citizens are now required to have a box of Band-Aids on hand" but be titled "The United States Healthcare Reform Act of 2010" and it would look good in the history books next to his name. I truly believe that's how desperate he's becoming to have a bill -- any bill -- on his scorecard.

Or, it could just be that I'm too stupid to understand Grandmaster-level 24-Dimension Chess.

[budkin]

95. Obama is a COWARD.

His balls were cut off the second he got into office... what a sham.

[No Elephants]

189. No, he still has testicles. They have nothing to do with character, though. Deal with it.

And please see Replies 41, 47 and 166, especially 166. It's really time our metaphors match reality, not some delusion.

[MidwestTransplant]

97. Who is advising him? People want action and leadership. They were pissed about the Republican like

way the Democrats handled this whole thing.

[madrchsod]

111. rahm and the surrender monkeys in the house and senate

[RoccoR5955]

98. How is he gonna water it down now?

More bailouts for the insurance industry?
I am getting a little fed up with this.
Obama had little role in the healthcare legislation, aside from stating it on the campaign trail.
Looks like the same stuff, different day to me.

[Little Star]

116. He'd get full credit for anything they could pass though.

[placton]

99. Obama and Dems

My god, who IS this guy? Can this really be the man we elected? Already he is in "surrender mode." How can we go on this way?

[LiberalTexasDemocrat]

102. Republicans will not stop until

they have drowned this bill in the tub along with the
government they hate.
Hopefully this will impress on the few remaining Democrats
with a spine the futility of bipartisanship with Republicans.
How many freakin' times does Lucy have to pull away the
football for these guys to learn? 

[Phlem]

123. Ripublicans will never stop!!!!

Greed and power is their driving force with the infinite pockets of Corporations as their foundation. This is the real fight.

Get it people! This crap is here to stay unless someone can wave a magical wand and make greed go away.

You want change! Take money out of politics and destroy the mega corporations. Corporations have more rights than the individuals in this country, is that the American way? Better yet, does that make any kind of fucking sense? Cause they're concerned about me and my family's well being? Bullshit!

The change you spoke of MR. President during your election, was that of you being a "new" kind of Democrat, cause that's not what I fricken voted for!

-phlem

[treestar]

103. I don't get the outrage from those who didn't want the bill anyway

Especially if it doesn't have the mandates.

[Hyper_Eye]

106. We want a BETTER bill! The popularity of health reform tanked with the loss of the public option.

That is the point. We need a strong public option and polls show that people support a strong public option. They don't support this bill because it is a mandate that throws the American people to the sharks. This administration is taking the wrong lessons from this election and of course they are! The Democrats in power are incompetent and they have no idea how to run their party let alone this country!

[treestar]

114. Start with the public option now?

Because electing Brown proves it is wanted? Would he vote for it?

The public can want a thing but not get it, because the public is not proportionately represented in the Senate.

[Hyper_Eye]

115. Bullshit. Go to reconciliation.

The Dems need to grow some balls. The Republicans would have had the bill passed and signed by the summer and all they would have needed was a simple majority. Obama has had a bigger majority in the Senate than Bush EVER had. Yet Bush passed the biggest tax cut in history. And he did it with reconciliation!

[treestar]

117. The public option may not qualiify for reconciliation

[Hyper_Eye]

119. Well lets test it and see how much of it does. n/t

[No Elephants]

191. Most Senators are males and always have been, so suggesting they grow balls is a meaningless

delusion about males versus females.

Please see Replies 41, 47 and 166, especially 166.

[madrchsod]

107. so nobody has a clue on what they should do....

these guys and gals are really clueless.....

[colsohlibgal]

110. Incredible

How dense and/or sold out are Obama and the democratic leadership? This takes the cake and can only be filed in the "WTF" file.

[Norwood]

113. LMAO this is just sad

Pare down an already watered down worthless health care bill lol just wow...
Change we can believe in!!!!!

[w4rma]

118. Obama's "Team of Rivals" is crashing directly into a cliff. (nt)

[DisgustedInMN]

120. fuck

[W_HAMILTON]

121. LOL

As if it wasn't "pared" down already? What's left to "pare" down? "Paring" down this healthcare bill is the reason why you lost Kennedy's seat. We voted for change, and we aren't getting shit. I'm angry.

[Juche]

122. Its intergalactic chess I tells ya

By being clueless, spineless and corporatist, the dems are forcing us on the grassroots level to organize and get more involved.

Allllllllllll part of the plan.

[Kermitt Gribble]

126. Unfuckingbelievable. n/t

[secondwind]

127. Could it be possible that this Brown win has been a blessing in disguise, in some form?

I mean, if it gets us moving faster, AND forming a new bill with all the good stuff in it, and leaving the crap out, and pushing the legislation in "baby steps", well, that is a GOOD THING IMHO!!!

Let's get this shit done, already!

[Ken Burch]

128. There's nothing LEFT to take out of it.

If anything else goes, the people LOSE ground.

What, short of what's in the current bill, is WORTH settling for?

It's meaningless if it's "no preexisting conditions" and nothing else at all.

[unkachuck]

130. I get it....

....let's take this HR bill and make it even shittier....and to do this, let's pretend that the brown-streaks' election scared the bejeeus out of us....those worthless dumb-fuck progressive won't figure it out....

....instead of firing rahmbone and timmy, then moving Left for a real HR bill 'fight' that will provide Americans the much needed relief they seek, the WH is going to move further 'right', snuggle some repugs and hand not only Teds' seat but whole the Congress to the pukes next November....

....the American people will buy any real solution to their problems, even Socialist solutions, if the solutions work....

....but no, they're going to continue to ignore their base and choose a selective false interpretation of yesterdays election results to beat us with....they're going to continue their corporate agenda and next February the repug House will begin impeachment hearings in earnest....

....how can the American people love SS and Medicare but hate Socialism and socialized medicine?....go ahead, defend the corporate agenda and see what happens....

[DesertDiamond]

132. It's the effing MANDATE, godammit! Get rid of that effing MANDATE!!

Talk about being unclear on the issues!

[underpants]

136. a cardboard box wall

easy to knock down and only put up TO knock it down

[Faryn Balyncd]

173. 2+ . . . . . NO mandate...........Any bill with a MANDATE is RADIO-ACTIVE.

[Dinger]

137. Any Die-Hards Having A Change Of Heart (Yes)?

Just curious.

[Ken Burch]

141. To have a change of heart, you have to HAVE a heart.

That doesn't apply to today's Senate Republicans.

They believe in the Loving Hate Of The Lord.

[yurbud]

138. so they took away exactly the wrong message.

[Name removed]

143. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

194. WTF? Sorry, but that's a birther style remark.

[Oldenuff]

144. Get it out in the open Dems! Pare it down to the mandate!

That is the only thing both parties can agree on anyway,and is likely the only thing they were after anyway.

All the other rhetoric is only "lipstick".



and people wonder why Brown won.

[StreetKnowledge]

146. Primary Challenge Time

If this is the "Change We Can Believe In" than to hell with the President.

Six years ago, a grassroots campaign damn near put Howard Dean on the Presidential ticket. You ready for round two, Howard?

It looks like if you want your dream to become reality, you'll have to go put foot to ass with these bastards yourself.

[suzie]

164. Go for it. Make sure that Democrats lose not only the presidency in 2012, but

every seat that's up for grabs.

But you go for that primary challenge. Don't think about anything but how much you'll like seeing a candidate that couldn't win the nomination on his own take down the whole Democratic Party.

Exciting stuff!

[Ken Burch]

201. We never have to support anti-public option DEMS

No that opposed THAT has any redeeming qualities.

Why are you willing to settle for almost nothing(which is the same as settling for nothing at all)?

[StreetKnowledge]

203. I'd say take the chances.

You want to see Obama continue to ignore us? Clearly he is not gonna get the message until somebody makes the White House remember who put them there.

[Doctor_J]

213. It's already gone

he's the weakest president in my lifetime, maybe in history. If we had torture, secret prisons, Big Insurance-approved health care, secrecy, domestic spying, trillion-dollar occupations of foreign countries under a repuke president, he would be in electoral trouble. A Dem president with that resume' has no chance of staying in office.

[fascisthunter]

236. no it wouldn't... it would lead to Victory

for years to come. Once the Dems turn their back to the people, they no longer are relevant, and people stop voting.

[TheCowsCameHome]

147. What's left to pare down? The title page or font size?

Oy........

[AzDar]

152. Who IS this person we elected? Because I don't have a fucking clue...

:grr:

[Jester Messiah]

153. So that's it? He's sounding the retreat?

Gutless, spineless cowardice.

[ProSense]

159. The White House denied this

On Next Steps for Health Reform

[No Elephants]

188. That's not a denial.

"The White House Blog
On Next Steps for Health Reform
Posted by Dan Pfeiffer on January 20, 2010 at 05:46 PM EST
Right now there are a lot of discussions going on about the best path forward. But let's be clear that the President's preference is to pass a bill that meets the principles he laid out months ago: more stability and security for those who have insurance, affordable coverage options for those who don’t, and lower costs for families, businesses, and governments."


The principles he laid out months ago specifically included strong public option and competition. Instead we got a mandate, no public option and no revocation of the monopoly exemption. And Obama praised the Senate for passing it. So what in heck does the above statement of nothing in particular mean in the real world?

Face it. Obama will sign anything that gets to his desk and declare victory. I said that last Spring and it still holds.

[TheeHazelnut]

167. "YES WE CAN'T!"

wheee...

[krabigirl]

180. is the mandate gone at least?

[New Dawn]

185. And the part that they "agree on" is: the fascist "Individual Mandate"

Its what the "health" insurance industry is demanding.

[Posteritatis]

197. And of course even that will get further watered down in time. (nt)

[No Elephants]

198. I'll pare down those 2000 pages of giveaways to insurers, big Pharma and big Health care.

Mandate-gone

Monopoly exemption-gone

Exclusions or higher prices for pre-existing conditions -gone.

New federal giveaways of all kinds to insurers, drug companies and big health care providers-gone.

Prohibition on re-importation of drugs from Canada-gone.

Doughnut hole-gone

Done.

In the immortal words of the Mae West..."How'm I doin'?"

[Posteritatis]

200. It might get a dozen or so votes. (nt)

[dropkickpa]

202. I'm laughing here, I'm laughing here!!

:rofl: :spray: :banghead: :puke: None of this shit surprises me.

[Jamastiene]

209. And the Oscar goes to...

[lumberjack_jeff]

211. I'm so proud.

I value timidity and hand wringing.

[Doctor_J]

212. Wow, it didn't take him long to capitulate even further

face it, folks, the party is completely leaderless. GOP will have the House and Senate as of next year, and the WH in 2013. And the 8 years after that will make the Bush reign seem like the FDR years in comparison.

[icee]

224. You got that right!! I'm glad we can speak openly about this......nft

ddd

[Blue Owl]

219. Whatever

Promises, promises. Why do I believe?

[alarimer]

228. Way to fight, you milquetoast

Jesus this president is a fucking joke.

[workinclasszero]

232. Just kill off the damn thing!

It was bullshit anyway! No public option? No medicare for all? KILL IT! it was a wet kiss to the health ins companies anyway!

Throw it in the rethugs laps! Let that asshole from Mass be in charge of it! LOL

Show these IDIOT american voters how much help they will get from rethug reps! LOL!

Whats the rethug plan for jobs? TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH? MORE JOBS...IN CHINA! LOLOLOLOL!

[Zorra]

234. I'm starting to wonder if the birthers are right. Sometimes Obama acts like he was born in

Manchuria.

[mvd]

235. Here's maybe a bright spot in a very dark week

Vows to press ahead with changes:

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-politics/20100122/US.Health.Care.Overhaul/

Poll after poll in MA showed the people want MORE action and leadership on health care, and not more "bipartisanship."

[fascisthunter]

237. .