Saudi girl, 13, sentenced to 90 lashes after she took a mobile phone to school

[Ter]

Source: Daily Mail

A 13-year-old girl has been sentenced to 90 lashes and two months' prison in Saudi Arabia after she took a mobile phone to school.

A court ordered the girl to be flogged in front of her classmates following an assault on the school principal, according to the Saudi daily newspaper Al-Watan.

After the assault she was discovered to have concealed a mobile phone, breaking strict Saudi regulations banning the use of camera-equipped phones in girls' schools.

Al-Watan said a court in the northeastern Gulf port of Jubail had sentenced the girl to 90 lashes inside her school, followed by two months' detention.

The punishment is harsher than tha dished out to some robbers and looters.

Saudi Arabia, a leading US ally in the Middle East, is an absolute monarchy controlled by the Al-Saud ruling tribe, and lacks any legal code.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1244689/Saudi-girl-13--sentenced-90-lashes-took-mobile-phone-school.html

---

Disgusting. :(

[FiveGoodMen]

1. This is what theocracy leads to.

Don't let the xtian bastards to the same to America!

[Rebubula]

5. Not even comparable...

...or remotely possible. We have FAR too many cultures and people for this shit to go on here.

[fitonkpo]

18. This is what the Christian fundies want for the USA.

among other things

[timtom]

78. I suspect you're young, but

there are more religions in the U.S. besides Christianity.

A more accurate statement would have been, "This is what the religious fundies want for the USA"

There's time. You'll learn.

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proteus_lives]

38. The constant comparison of US fundies to things like this is ridiculous.

[razorman]

50. You are right. The "moral equivalence" between Christian societies

and Muslim societies is bullshit. In spite of their drawbacks, no Christian nations routinely treat their women as chattel, at least in modern times.
The fact that we are angered by stories such as this show the difference. If we were Saudis, we wouldn't even be allowed to voice the outrage.

[sybylla]

54. I listened to to xtian fundies say we need to torture more of them terraists {sic}.

We need to keep Guantanamo open and throw a bunch more of them muslins in there. We need to haul all them illegal immigrants to the borders and shove them out. We need to stop letting babies born here become citizens here unless their parents are citizens. We need to stop giving away all that stuff to the poor who are just too lazy to help themselves.

Just last week in Senator Russ Feingold's listening session in my county. These great xtians, who belong to a fundamentalist church and take their pews proudly every Sunday, walked up to a microphone and said these words among many others they should be ashamed of as xtians. And these mofo's have been working hard to take over our local governments. They don't just sit on their asses and bitch. They get out and spread the hate, the zenophobia, the tribalism. They run for office and send their hate-filled, fear-mongering letters to the editor.

So, unfortunately, it's not as ridiculous as you'd like to believe.

[proteus_lives]

61. Letters to the editors vs. a public lashing. Yeah, that's the same alright.

If you think that a lot of blow-hard talk is the same as stoning, lashings and beheadings. Well, you need to re-think it.

I've known fundies in local office too, they don't try to install lashing posts in the town square. It's mostly "Can we put the Ten Commandment in front of the courthouse."

I stand by my original statement, the comparison is ridiculous.

[marshall]

63. I would hardly compare this 13 year old girl to the men in Guantanamo Bay

Whatever one thinks about what goes on there, the men there are far more guilty than this poor child.

[noamnety]

109. Wrong: "the men there are far more guilty than this poor child."

As a blanket statement that is absolutely wrong. The government has already admitted that some of their guantanamo prisoners were innocent. In one case, a federal district judge had to issue an order to the US government demanding that they free a group of innocent Chinese muslims who were imprisoned by mistake and held there for seven years.

Innocent people = innocent people.
7 years in guantanamo > lashings.

[marshall]

115. Wasn't that a Bush official who admitted that?

It sounded like an attack on Obama to me. With all the hooha over missing the deadline to close down Guantanamo this is adding fuel to the fire--because don't you think if Obama knew there were innocent people he would have had them released by now?

[noamnety]

116. The thread's not really a partisan comparison of Bush vs. Obama

but if you are going to try to claim we aren't barbaric because we don't hold innocent people at guantanamo now that Obama's president that's still incorrect.

Actually, let me rephrase that - Obama's solution (like much of Bush's solution) has been to hold them indefinitely without trial - that way we never have to do that pesky thing of declaring them innocent. He's been holding people in gitmo for almost a full year now who have never been found guilty of anything, and I thought just yesterday the justice dept ruled he can continue to do that "indefinitely."

That sounds barbaric to me. No?

[leftynyc]

87. Oh for Heavens sake

In what way is speaking stupid shit in front of a town hall meeting the same thing as a government sentencing a 13 year old child to torture and prison for a cell phone? Stop it already.

[superconnected]

62. Yes but they can't get it or keep it. They themselves can't follow it.

[KakistocracyHater]

66. You're wrong, look here: Wife spanking now a Christian duty

http://christiandomesticdiscipline.com/whatiscdd.html
"Think wife spanking went out with the horse-drawn carriage, straight razors or unsliced bread?

Think again.

Domestic Discipline has been practised throughout history and continues to be practised today by an ever-growing community who see the wisdom in our ancestors' methods of maintaining marital bliss"....

THEY ARE UPPING THE ANTE.

..."For a wife, to be spanked is more intensely personal than copulation. Since most women do not want to be subject of gossip, they tend to be careful in whom they confide potentially embarrassing intimate details of their lives at a time when spanking is more controversial than in past generations."... YES THEY ARE SERIOUS.

COMBINED WITH THEIR FETISH AGAINST ALL BIRTH CONTROL, IT REVEALS A VERY DISTURBING WORLDVIEW.

http://www.prolife.com/BIRTHCNT.html

..."Birth Control" Pills cause early Abortions

By J.T. Finn (updated April 23, 2005)

Physicians across America -- and around the world -- are now confirming that the Pill, IUDs, Depo-Provera and Norplant cause early abortions."...

[proteus_lives]

68. Once again, are judges sentencing wives to be spanked?

Are Christians rampaging through people's houses destroying birth control? No. The above is a fringe group, not the mainstream and not in power. They don't even reflect 99% of Christians.

You need some perspective.

[leftynyc]

88. I'll speak slowly so as not to confuse you

You're comparing what private citizens do in their own homes to what a government is doing to its citizens. When our government starts sentencing people to torture and prison for owning a cell phone, or orders husbands to beat their wives, we can have this conversation. Until then, keep the moronic relativism out of it.

[KakistocracyHater]

114. links here-SO TELL ME AGAIN HOW IT DOESNT COMPARE?

in a sub-culture & THAT subculture is obsessively invading the mainstream, their "normal" WILL be forced upon AT LEAST SOME of the mainstream population. Since you are obviously ignorant of the various themes going on in Evangelical Christian/Dominionist circles & I am not-go ahead, play it down. Just like you probably may have played down Christians praying against various people, "imprecatory pryaers" & that has NO dots connecting to Army of God, what may or may not be on scopes :sarcasm: Til you do pay attention, try looking in on http://talk2action.com LOTS of evidence there, from dragging teens behind a van in a "Christian boot camp" to deaths during "exorcisms", to withholding "EVIL science" insulin from their own child, resulting in her death. Here, in America. Is that slow enough for you? Do you understand it now?

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/20949/ava-worthington-2

"The case of a 15-month-old Oregon City girl who died for lack of medical treatment could become the first test of a state law that disallows faith healing at the expense of a child’s life."...

http://www.bjconline.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2584

"Oregon parents to stand trial in daughter's faith-healing death PDF Print E-mail
Written by Steve Mayes

Religion News Service

OREGON CITY, Ore. -- Ava Worthington died surrounded by loved ones who believed their prayers would heal the young child.

As the 15-month-old girl struggled to breathe, church members anointed her with oil and pleaded with God to provide a cure. But Ava died March 2, 2008, of bronchial pneumonia and a blood infection. Antibiotics could have saved her life, the state medical examiner's office said."....

http://tinyurl.com/y8r3bmm
...."Dobson is dispensing life-threatening advice to abused Christian women

Andersen, whose account of physical abuse by her husband makes for a harrowing first chapter, says that the problem is exacerbated by misguided advice and use of outdated information in the writing of Dr. James Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family, and Dr. John MacArthur, a pastor-teacher at the Sun Valley, California-based Grace Community Church. "We do see some very big-name evangelical leaders blaming the battered woman for the abuse," Andersen explained. "You know, talking about how she may provoke her husband into doing it; or that her poor, non-communicative husband can't handle maybe what she's trying to communicate to him and he lashes out and hits her -- shifts the blame right off him and to her."....

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2006/9/15/224228/895
..."James Dobson and religiously motivated child abuse
By dogemperor Fri Sep 15, 2006 at 10:42:28 PM EST printable version print story
I have been writing an ongoing series in regards to the troubling subject of religiously motivated child abuse--one of the darker secrets of the dominionist community--starting with an article regarding one of the five to fifteen or more reported deaths a year in the US attributable to religiously motivated child abuse and which are largely summarised in a wrap-up here. Some of these cases are truly horrifying--including kids being shuttled to multiple locations for continuation of abuse and even some of the very parties legally required to report such abuse being some of the perpetrators.".....


http://www.talk2action.org/story/2006/3/16/132347/107
..."Death by "chastening rod"
By dogemperor Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 01:23:47 PM EST printable version print story
I had the very unfortunate experience this morning of reading, via the following news article, of a death directly attributed to childrearing methods promoted by dominionist child-rearing authors Michael and Debbie Pearl--who operate a website called No Greater Joy and who have published several books."...

[leftynyc]

117. You simply refuse to get it

You are comparing what private citizens do (and get prosecuted for) to a sentence GIVEN BY THE GOVERNMENT. When the US GOVERNMENT courts sentence people to get lashed, we can have this conversation. Until then, you're arguing apples and oranges.

[KakistocracyHater]

120. that is their intended goal, to grow until they are strong enough & acceptable

to go into government, but to you:eyes: until they ARE in government. OK, whatever........

[humblebum]

105. If this is what theocracy leads to (and I don't like theocracies) then

what accounts for the murders of 130 million (estimated) people living under state atheism in the 20th century? Just curious. Could it possibly be that the cause is human extremism and fanaticism? Since such things happen independently of religion, I am inclined to think so. Incidentally these numbers are higher than all religious wars combined.

[Illuminated]

110. Let me guess, you are an Atheist....

No one is more fundamentalist than an outspoken Atheist.

Also, I thought Islam was the "religion of peace".

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KansDem]

11. 17 of the 19 attackers on 9/11 (89%) came from countries that were either...

...friends and business partners of the Bush Family or connected to Cheney's Halliburton.

Someone want to remind me why are we in Iraq again?

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AllyCat]

46. Because we have religious freedom in this country. The bigger question is

why are we allies with the Saudis abroad? People of many nations and cultures build mosques/practice Islam. These people are not Muslims. They are cowards and freaks.

[Barrymores Ghost]

52. You, sir or madame, are a fucking idiot.

If you ask a question like that in all seriousness, then you are in the wrong place. Crawl back under your rock, troll.

[yava]

65. there is no excuse for lashing children for a telephone

anywhere in the world.
There is no excuse for defending it.
There is no excuse for not condemning it.
There is also no place for cellphones in classrooms but the just and largely sufficient punishment is to take the kid's phone.

[Barrymores Ghost]

99. Since the message I responded to has been deleted, you have no clue...

...as to the context of my response, my dear pod-sleeper.

The aforementioned post questioned whether we should even ALLOW the building of mosques within U.S. borders.

If you agree with that racist and xenophobic premise, then you're as big a fucking idiot as the fucktard that posted it in the first fucking place. I don't argue for fundamentalism, but against the assumption that the voice and actions of fundamentalists somehow represent those who follow said religion as a whole. I apply the same standards to modern-day Chrisitanity, although I would note that the so-called "Christians" in this country who possess the biggest microphones and the biggest bank accounts would impose their own brand of theocratic totalitarianism.

Got that?

[renate]

3. poor little thing....

As a parent (and as a human being) I am absolutely sick at the idea of anybody, but especially a child, having to endure this punishment--it's so over the top that there just aren't words to describe it.

[rasputin1952]

28. I hear you...

This is sickening. 90 lashes can be a death sentence...:cry:

[Political Heretic]

4. What does "assault on a school principle" mean?

What is the nature of this assault?

[louis-t]

8. That was my question, how does that figure into story.

[struggle4progress]

12. ... she thumped her school principal on the head with a cup, a newspaper

said on Wednesday. The incident happened last year in Jubail after the headmistress confiscated the girl’s mobile phone ...
Saudi schoolgirl assaults teacher, gets 90 lashes
REUTERS, 21 January 2010, 12:31am IST
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/Saudi-schoolgirl-assaults-teacher-gets-90-lashes/articleshow/5482321.cms

... the Daily Mail quoted Saudi newspaper Al-Watan ...
Saudi Teen Sentenced to 90 Lashes for Cell Phone in School
Wednesday, January 20, 2010
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,583440,00.html

The Daily Mail is not the best possible source, but information on such topics is difficult to obtain from the Saudis, and the story is not entirely unbelievable, since Saudi Arabia has no written penal code and grants judges enormous discretion in deciding what is a crime and what the punishment should be

... The violations of defendants' rights are so fundamental and systemic that it is hard to reconcile Saudi Arabia's criminal justice system, such as it is, with a system based on the basic principles of the rule of law and international human rights standards ... Saudi Arabia has not promulgated a penal (criminal) code. Accordingly, citizens, residents, and visitors have no means of knowing with any precision what acts constitute a criminal offense. Previous court rulings do not bind Saudi judges, and there is little evidence to suggest that judges seek to apply consistency in sentencing for similar crimes ...
Universal Periodic Review of Saudi Arabia
11 Jun 2009 22:05:21 GMT
Source: Human Rights Watch
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/HRW/3afa594207c87d6b5f04b78346e3c832.htm

[jmowreader]

15. So the flogging is for the assault and not the phone

It's still fucked up.

[struggle4progress]

17. Well, maybe and yes. The Saudi judge, for all we know, might have decided

she should be flogged for sneezing disrespectfully in court: there's no written law and no tradition of following judicial precedents; the judge pretty much does what he wants, including having a thirteen year old beaten

[rasputin1952]

29. Holy Christ!...

"...a system based on the basic principles of the rule of law and international human rights standards..."

International human rights standards!...:wtf:

[struggle4progress]

45. Yeah, those international human rights standards are pesky little nuisances, but some of us

have come to love them anyway

[virgogal]

6. God almighty----I can't breathe. Awful,just awful.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

7. Somewhere in America a deputy-assistant principle...

is jerking off to this story,

[noamnety]

9. propaganda & journalism (before I rush to judgment)

1. Girl assaults principal and brings phone to school
2. Girl is flogged


The article mentions she was flogged after both those actions, but it never says she was flogged BECAUSE of the cell phone. Possibly she assaulted the principal and was actually flogged for that? It would make sense that someone is punished harsher for assault than robbery or looting.

[struggle4progress]

35. It doesn't really matter, does it? The story is about flogging a thirteen year old

[noamnety]

48. Well, yes.

I'm very glad I live in a state where corporal punishment is illegal. But I'm also very aware of a few points that keep it in perspective.

One is that we still beat school children in some areas - even though it's illegal to beat prisoners. We especially do it to kids with disabilities (at twice the rate of students without disabilities). Sometimes we do it to the point where they have permanent injuries - permanent scarring in a 9 year old girl who was held upside down by one teacher while being beaten by another teacher with a wood plank, an eye being dislodged from its socket by a coach. The courts have ruled it is constitutional to force a ten year old boy to unclog a stopped school toilet with his bare hands as punishment.

We're one of two industrialized countries that haven't outlawed it. We are over 100 years behind many of the european countries on that many have had it banned since the 1800s.

In Saudi Arabia, here's what I found: women who are subject to lashing generally get them in 20-30 at a time, not all at once if there are more. "according to Islamic law, a flogger is supposed to hold a copy of the Quran under his arm to curb his range of motion and ensure that the strokes are not too powerful. "

http://www.slate.com/id/2204467/

I find it horrifying all around, what's happening to the girl, and also what happens to our own children in this country in the name of "discipline." So my point is NOT a justification of that as punishment. I don't even believe in spanking. It's just that we're mighty quick to point fingers at how barbaric other (*cough Muslim*) countries are, because it fits our stereotypes conveniently, but we do that in a way that renders our own equivalent actions invisible. In this country, at many schools she'd be arrested and spend time in juvie for assaulting a principal. Is that better? Which causes more long term damage? I don't know. I remember when a student in the US had her arm broken and was arrested for dropping a piece of cake and getting crumbs on the floor. I think we need to clean up our own mess or at least acknowledge it while criticizing others, that's all I'm saying.

[sybylla]

55. Clearly, you have no idea what flogging is

or that the practice was banned as punishment in the god damned 19th century for being insanely cruel.

[noamnety]

56. You're mistaken.

You think I'm supporting the flogging in some way.

I'm not. I'm condemning it. And I'm stating that given what we do, maybe we shouldn't attribute it to how barbaric The Other is.

Note: from what others have posted since my initial post in this subthread, it appears my instincts were correct, that the newspaper deliberately misled the readers about what the punishment was for, in order to stir up outrage against Muslims, using some propaganda with intent to flame stereotypes. I would ask why didn't they report the story in the most accurate way possible? What was their intent in NOT stating clearly that the lashings were for an assault?

[leftynyc]

89. For some reason you seem to

think it is less outrageous for her to be tortured and imprisoned for simple assault. Saudi Arabia has a barbaric legal system and anybody who was involved in this case are animals.

[noamnety]

94. What I actually said:

"I find it horrifying all around"

Please don't make up things you think I believe.

[leftynyc]

96. Not in the post I responded to

You were only wondering why the report was written the way it was as if that mattered at all to this child.

[noamnety]

97. Who is the intended audience for this article - the child? Or someone else?

Does the reporter have a moral obligation to report the facts accurately?

Or if we all agree that flogging as punishment for assault is outrageous, is it okay that the media reports it as flogging for having a cell phone?

Could it be considered propaganda if it's deliberately misrepresented? Should we criticize the media when they do that?

[leftynyc]

118. Then we're speaking past eachother

My point was that it didn't matter - to this child - what the sentence was for. I'm in complete agreement that the media has a moral responsiblity to report what actually happened and not embellish in order to further their own agenda which I feel was done in this case.

[onehandle]

10. Our ally, the 9/11 financiers.

Quick. Somebody hold their King's hand.

[jmowreader]

13. It could be worse--she could have gotten lashes for not bringing one to school

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/03/05/1046826437209.html

The gentleman in this article, and his wife, were sentenced to 16 months in a Saudi prison plus 300 lashes for theft from the hospital they worked at. Apparently the woman did the theft. The man pled not guilty. The judge told him, "I believe you didn't steal, but you must have known about it because a man always knows what his wife is doing."

Nuking Saudi isn't going to fix the problem. Getting the world to not buy oil from them until they get rid of the Muttawa will.

[Doremus]

14. 90 lashes will kill her. Fucking bastards.

[Marthe48]

19. If it doesn't kill her--

--it'll leave her mutilated and disabled. Isn't the time past for using outdated punishments like this? Anywhere?

[Zambero]

16. Pat Robertson would approve of this punishment

He'd pose a question as to why a "Christian country like ours" cannot take similar steps to discipline our children in a manner that would reflect and reinforce our traditional values.

Fundamentalism can manifest itself in any number of religious sects, but it has a single common thread -- unflinching use of fear,intimidation, and brutality as necessary in order to perpetuate a rigid and inflexible code of behavior.

[leftynyc]

90. I detest Pat Robertson and his ilk

but I still call you on the comparison. Where, in writings or speeches, has he ever given you the ammunition to claim he would support torturing and imprisoning children? 90 lashes?!! I want a link and if you don't have one, stop the bullshit comparisons.

[ConcernedCanuk]

20. Das why Bush luvs them so much

.
.
.



they say a pic is worth a thousand words

leaves me speachless why the USA literally kisses the Saudis a___

oh yeah - I tink it's got sumpthin to do with OIL

(SIGH)

[Name removed]

33. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bragi]

83. Signs of photoshopping there.... /nt

[leftynyc]

91. This is photoshopped

there is plenty of ammunition to tie the bush crim family to the saudi's - there is no need to lie about it.

[VermeerLives]

111. You forget

that Obama bowed to the Saudi King. That was not the only leader he bowed to. And no, it wasn't photo-shopped. There's video coverage to back it up.

[StarfarerBill]

21. What a marvelous ally we have in Saudi Arabia...

And this, like so many other atrocities, will be studiously ignored in our quest to continue ingratiating ourselves to our enlightened oil pushers, er, providers.

[leftynyc]

92. Or be defended

because we're just as bad (in some moronic people's heads).

[Alamuti Lotus]

22. I would like to see punishments of the sort enacted here

And not just for kids; this cell phone nonsense should not go without consequences.

[Alamuti Lotus]

23. As an aside, what utter bullshit in the headline selection

Headline should read: "Girl, 13, Sentenced to 1 Lash for Having a Cell Phone, and 89 Lashes for ASSAULTING THE SCHOOL PRINCIPAL".

[joshcryer]

25. She probably tried to keep her property, and they considered that "assault."

[WildEyedLiberal]

40. Does anyone really care WHY she was sentenced to 90 lashes?

What the fuck kind of country beats 13 year olds? Or anyone, for that matter, as a routine matter of course?

Our "allies." :eyes:

[noamnety]

57. What other country? We do it. (nt)

[WildEyedLiberal]

58. Oh, come ON. Please provide ANY evidence of a 13 year old being sentenced to flogging in the US.

Why do you have to cheapen the barbarity of what's happening to this girl by creating a false equivalency with the US, when you know good and well that there is no comparison?

Edit: OK, I read your other post in this thread, so I see what you're trying to say, but it's still a false equivalency. Obviously the mistreating and beating of children in school is barbaric, but you can't tell me it's not against the law and that the teacher performing the abuse would not be subject to criminal penalty if caught. And even so - and I am in no way defending schools mistreating children, which is barbaric and any "teacher" involved should have their license revoked in all 50 states as well as serving serious jail time - that's still not the same thing as the COURT using flogging as an officially sanctioned legal sentence. There is simply no comparison between punishing a child in the court system in the US and punishing a child in the court in Saudi Arabia, and I do think it cheapens the horror of what is happening to this girl to suggest that there is.

[noamnety]

60. "you can't tell me it's not against the law" - it's legal in several states to beat school children.

One of the teachers-to-be in my masters in ed course stated openly that she was glad she would be teaching in a state where corporal punishment was still legal. I wish I had her exact quote on this laptop - I saved it because it was so outrageous. It was along the lines of "when you beat a 14 year old girl, it's painful and humiliating for them. I'm glad I'm in a state where we can do it."

I don't know if it's the same or not as a court doing the sentencing. Here, the courts have given the teachers the authority to beat children without a trial.

[WildEyedLiberal]

67. What freaking states let you BEAT children?

This is a serious question. I honestly had no idea it was legal ANYWHERE in this country for children to be corporally punished at school. Are there restrictions on what constitutes the "punishment" at least? Not that that makes it any better, but I really thought we'd moved past the switches-and-paddles days...

[Kablooie]

72. From Time Magazine Aug. 11 2009

"Corporal punishment is legal under domestic law in 20 states ... Texas paddles the most students in the nation, as well as the most students with disabilities ... The total number of students, with and without disabilities, who were subjected to corporal punishment in the 2006-2007 school year was 223,190. ... Nationwide, students with disabilities receive corporal punishment at disproportionately high rates. In Tennessee, for example, students with disabilities are paddled at more than twice the rate of the general student population. ... Students with autism are particularly likely to be punished for behaviors common to their condition, stemming from difficulties with appropriate social behavior. ... Anna M., whose son with autism was physically punished repeatedly when he was seven years old, noted, "The teacher felt he was doing some stuff on purpose. If you met him, you wouldn't know he was autistic straight away. People thought we were making an excuse for him.' "

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1915820,00.html#ixzz0dE6up5E1

[WildEyedLiberal]

73. That's really appalling

:banghead: Truly.

Look, I still don't think this excuses the barbaric crap happening in Saudi Arabia, nor does it mean we can't be outraged about it because terrible crap still happens in the US. But the more attention that is brought to abusive tyrants who abuse children no matter where in the world they are, the better.

[Ter]

76. A little pad on the hynie

Is not the same as lashing. I had my hair pulled by Sisters in a NYC Catholic school in the '80's. HUGE difference over lashings in Saudi Arabia.

[noamnety]

84. "A little pad on the hynie" is a gross misrepresentation

of the severity of what goes on in our schools. You used wording which deliberately downplays and trivializes the extent of what corporal punishment is in the US.

"Injuries occur. Bruises are common. Broken bones, nerve and muscle damage are not unusual. An estimated 1% to 2% of all recipients of school corporal punishment require medical evaluation and treatment for injuries resulting from the punishment*. Brain injury and even death has occurred in the U.S. due to school corporal punishment. "

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=52&ved=0CLUBEBYwMw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.neverhitachild.org%2FArkansas%2Fcpfacts.html&ei=bmBYS5bhPJGftgf-m_irBA&usg=AFQjCNHfPottByOzGve5l7u8hP135NYAbA

There were 2.25 million cases of child abuse reported in 1987. Over eleven hundred children died because of it. According to Dr. Vincent Fontana, chair.man of the New York City Mayor's Committee on Child Abuse Prevention, "In New York City, two children per week die at the hands of their care providers."

There were one million incidents of corporal punishment in schools reported during 1986 and 1987. Ten thousand to twenty thousand students sustained medical injuries due to this punishment, or 1 to 2 percent of all corporal punishment recipients.

http://www.nospank.net/green.htm

The only honest way to compare our system with theirs is to compare our mildest form of punishment to their mildest form of punishment, and our harshest to their harshest. Our harshest has resulted in death ... but we have people trying to portray our corporal punishment as consisting basically of hair pulling. Take a case extreme enough here that it generated press, and compare it to the case there that was extreme enough that it generated press. Apples to apples.

[leftynyc]

93. BULLSHIT

I'm getting sick of this shit. Name me one state that has a law on its books that says a teacher or principal can sentence a 13 year old CHILD to being lashed 90 times (or even once) and put in prison. That's what is happeneing here - not some fucking fantasy some people have about being paddled in a handful of states. If you can't, you're nothing but a liar.

[Prometheus Bound]

70. I don't think it's a cat-o-nine tails like the Bahamas.

I think it's more like the strap that many of us had as kids for talking in class and the like.

[Ter]

75. Very sad

A Democrat supporting lashing on 13 year old's using cells. I am not supposed to use my cell at my job. I am 37 and sneak calls/texts in the bathroom. Should I be lashed?

[noamnety]

77. NOBODY here is supporting it.

NOBODY.

I AM however pointing to the nature of how the article is written as a piece of propaganda deliberately written in a misleading way in an effort to stir up hatred against Muslims, and I AM pointing to a level of hypocrisy among US folks who are so willing to accept how it's written without turning a mirror toward our own society. I am specifically pointing to those who read the article and bought into the mass hysteria that it was over "using a cell phone", and concluded those people are barbaric. We imprison people for life for using pot, we beat our children in schools without trials - sometimes causing permanent injuries, and we are over in their region of the world, not lashing but bombing their children.

So it's fine and appropriate and necessary to speak out with outrage about the punishment, but not to buy into false propaganda, and certainly not to buy into it as a source for demonstrating how barbaric that country is, as compared to ours.

[noamnety]

81. sorry - I should have checked who you were responding to.

stupid editing time limits, urgh

[Alamuti Lotus]

112. Very sad, indeed

especially the part where I may have to explain the notion of sarcasm(*) to a 37yr old man.



(*)--well, not so much 'sarcasm', but the use of intentionally-exaggerated statements to make an erstwhile perfectly valid point, but 'sarcasm' fits on the bumper sticker better.

[Blue_Tires]

104. may the gods help me for saying it, but i had exactly the same thought

i would extend it up to high school and college as well...

[Alamuti Lotus]

113. Oh, well past college -- this must be applied across the board

Not merely in the classrooms, though I'm sure that's an important aspect, but I would give particular attention to the twits at Ordering/Checkstand locations that hold a line up to chat on the cell, etc etc.. It's about time some examples were made.

[ScottLand]

24. These are Bush's buddies. You could never even get a

comment from him on something like this.

[BreweryYardRat]

26. Goddamned savages.

May the entire Saudi "justice system" burn in hell.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[w4rma]

30. Dictatorships do things like this. Religious or not. (nt)

[DeSwiss]

53. Yeah, well this dictatorship IS religious.

- So what other dictatorships may or may not do, is a moot point -- and a trifling one at that. Particularly to this girl.

[pjt7]

31. ISN'T IT GREAT THAT THE HOUSE OF SAUD IS THE

2ND LARGEST SHAREHOLDER OF NEWS CORPS/FOX & THEY WANT TO BUY MORE?

ISN'T THAT TERRRIFIC?

[VermeerLives]

32. Ah yes, Saudi Arabia

Where men are men and women are......cattle.

[Odin2005]

34. Barbarians.

[Prospero1]

37. Aren't you glad....

we back moderate Arab nations like the Saudis? It's so good to know they're helping us resist extremists.

[harvey007]

39. What an evil society

It sickens me that the United States is best friends with this country.

[AllyCat]

41. And why are we constantly palling around with this gang of terrorists?

Oh yeah, Oil. Silly me.

Poor girl. Wish I could take it away.

[varelse]

42. zero-tolerance policies just plain suck (nt)

[tblue]

43. Bring her here.

Give her refugee status. You don't torture a child.

[SlingBlade]

44. Let Freedom Ring .....

And how many U.S Troops I wonder were wounded FOR ANY REASON during
Papa Bush's War to protect Saudi Arabia and re-take Kuwait from the sinister
evil mastermind,Saddam Hussein ?

With bastards like this as friends, Who the hell needs an enemy ?

[pjt7]

47. FACT a relative of the house of Saud is the 2nd largest

shareholder of FOX.

FACT: the house of Saud matched every dollar we gave the Al-Queda in Afghanistan. to fight the Soviets

FACT 15 of 19 hijackers were from Saudi, as well as Osma Bin Laden

ANYBODY ELSE REALIZE WHY THIS COUNTRY IS UPSIDE DOWN?

[SlingBlade]

59. Thanks for the facts.....WoW !

[Rainngirl]

49. Ah, yes...

B*sh's best buddies. Nice.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[New Dawn]

69. But Washington calls Saudi Arabia "moderate."

[Kablooie]

71. NINETY LASHES!? On a 13 year old!? This sounds like a death sentence.

[peacetalksforall]

74. When we compare our radicals customs with Muslim countries - there are several similarities.

We have those "no see 'um" and hidden communities where 14 year old girls are selected to marry the head honcho Christian religious community leader who is 60+ years old with other wives and partners who already have grey hair? Is that a myth? I don't think so.

In comparing - we are no better in some aspects:

If we are talking about weird rules and customs, we might be more used to ours so they don't see so weird.

If we are talking about punishment, we don't compare in a public way such as flogging and prison for breaking a school rule.

But we are exactly the same in two ways - men make the rules and are the ones to interpret and force their interpretations and declarations for everyday living whether domestic clothing or group and private practices - to ankles - to obedience. Their interpretations come from a book and a man who was once human.

Men rule - they hand out the punishment. Their rules supercede civil law.

[Coventina]

82. You are comparing apples and oranges. But you know that.

Let's see...which country am I allowed to drive in?
Which country allows me to go out of my house unescorted by a male member of my family?
Which country allows me to have a glass of wine with dinner?

I could go on, but you get the idea.

I know which country I would rather live in. YMMV.

[peacetalksforall]

100. No, I am comparing our hypocrisies to their hypocrisies. Take a look at all the

understanding that the Bush 'family' has for the Saudi Royalty all the while the Royalty don't seem to mind the hatred that is planted and fed from the top down. Nor the torture. You would never hear Cheney criticize the punishment or the law or their judicial set up.

At the same time - they have customs that are different from ours - we don't allow guns in school while we allow Anne Coulter to sit in front of a cameras of companies that broadcast to the world with 80& of her crossed legs showing.

The apples and oranges are between customs and practices and the hypocrisies that go with it.

[Coventina]

106. I in no way condone torture in any form on any living being

so I agree with you that the USA does have hypocracy between its ideals and the reality of what is done.

But the MAJOR difference is that Saudi Arabia is NOT hypocritcal when it comes to torture. They are just fine with it, and practice it on a large scale, rather than on a small scale and in secret.

If you can't see the difference, I can't help you.

Once again, just to be perfectly clear, I AM NOT OKAY WITH THE WAR CRIMES COMMITTED BY BUSHCO! But Bushco's crimes does not make me unable to also criticise the KSA.

[leftynyc]

95. What an inappropriate screen name you have

Trying to compare what happens in a small fundamentalist community to the country's law of the land. Saudi Arabia is a religious dictatorship and it was a JUDGE that sentenced this child to be tortured. When our government has laws on its books to compare, you'll have a point. Until then, it's a moronic and dishonest comparison.

[peacetalksforall]

102. You're right about the name. I find myself becoming hopeless about my

country. We don't need to go ourside our borders to find some parallel stuff. See my post 100 for more of my rational.

[Blandocyte]

79. Her mom should drive over to that school and

give the principal a good talking to. Er, wait... it's the women aren't allowed to drive thing...

[JCMach1]

80. Wow, the judge's family must have it out for the girl's family...

but that's how it works over here....

[Posteritatis]

107. I imagine it's more that the judge has it out for the girl's gender. (nt)

[JCMach1]

119. Don't rule out both...

[leftynyc]

85. Fucking barbarians

13 years old and sentenced to torture and prison. Our allies.

[SOS]

98. We won't see this reported in the corrupt US media

If this were Venezuela or Iran it would be on the front page of the New York Times.

The US stance on "human rights" is dictated by American oil companies.

[Renew Deal]

101. Seems reasonable.

:wtf:

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JerseygirlCT]

108. I really detest that regime.

nasty, ugly, horrid people running that country.

[Sultana]

121. Whatever, Christians are much worser

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: