More bias in US against Muslims than other faiths

[demoleft]

Source: ap

NEW YORK – Americans are more than twice as likely to express prejudice against Muslims than they are against Christians, Jews or Buddhists, a new survey found. Nearly two-thirds of Americans say they have little or no knowledge of Islam. Still, a majority dislike the faith.

The analysis, for release Thursday, is from the Gallup World Religion Survey and is part of a project on finding ways to increase understanding between Americans and Muslims.
...
In the poll, just over half of Americans said they felt no prejudice against Muslims. However, 43 percent acknowledged at least "a little" prejudice against Muslims, a significantly higher percentage than for the other four faiths in the survey.
...
Asked about knowledge of Islam, 63 percent of Americans say they have "very little" or "none at all." A large majority of respondents believe most Muslims want peace. Yet, 53 percent of Americans say their opinion of the faith is "not too favorable" or "not favorable at all." By comparison, 25 percent of Americans say they have unfavorable views of Judaism, while 7 percent say they have "some" or "a great deal" of prejudice toward Jews.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100121/ap_on_re/us_rel_muslims_prejudice

---

american DUers, do you find this report reliable?
if it was about italians, i would. but i do not have figures.

[Douglas Carpenter]

1. some interesting findings in this study that might seem counter-intuitive to what some might expect

Respondents who say they attend religious services more than once a week are significantly more likely to have a favorable view of Muslims. Mogahed said people who are more religious generally consider prejudice a moral evil and often have respect for the devout of other faiths.

Researchers also found a link between prejudice against Jews and Muslims. Americans who acknowledged "a great deal" of bias toward Jews were much more likely to feel the same about Muslims. The survey results could not explain why the two prejudices are linked. Mogahed said bias against both groups should be tracked and studied together to understand the dynamic.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100121/ap_on_re/us_rel_muslims_prejudice

I've always had a suspicion that a lot of the hateful rhetoric directed against Muslims is actually coming from closet anti-Semites or other bigots who feel socially constrained from publicly expressing anti-Semitism or other forms of bigotry, but more free to openly express their general bigotry against a more marginalized group such as Muslims.

[Robb]

9. I agree. You nailed it, IMO. nt

[treestar]

84. Absolutely

I have no doubt about this. In the years right after 911, right wingers were almost relieved. There was a bigotry that they were allowed to express with little opposition or being called out on it.

They always whine about political correctness and how they are being persecuted because they can't point out obvious "facts" about blacks or other minorities (in their racist heads). But here was a group they could openly be bigoted about and if a liberal said anything to them about it, they would almost gleefully say, "These people want you dead" blah blah blah.

[Rebubula]

2. This is not surprising

Islam - people are ignorant of the faith and they see many of its adherents doing unspeakable things - breeds fear and hatred
Jews - America is full of Jews living quietly next door and keeping to themselves.
Buddhists - OK...how many Buddhists do the average American actually know?? I live near DC and I KNOW there are several Buddhist communities but I do not actually know anyone that follows the belief. Couple that with the perception that Buddhists are peaceful....no fear or hate
Christians - there may be some bastards in this faith, but America is overwhelmingly Christian and most know many Christians. Devil we know and all that....

Everyone is biased against everyone...been that way since the beginning of time. Difference breeds fear in the small minded.

[iandhr]

17. As Jew I do not think we keep to ourselfs

We participate fully in the national life of this country.

[marshall]

52. I think the point is that Jews aren't evangelical

They aren't bicyclying door to door seeking converts to their religion.

[Fumesucker]

3. I get emails from highly religious Christian members of my family from time to time...

I don't think I've gotten one against Muslims and yet I got one just yesterday against atheists, not an unusual thing at all.

[carla]

6. Not unusual

after 8 years of anti-Muslim xenophobia in the US. The sad part is that most Americans aren't aware that the hate resembles the crap the nazi's used against Jews, Roma and the "inferior".
The Genocidal Monkey and his BFEE cohorts need America to have an enemy, any enemy, but Muslims form a huge group so they are ideal. I received an email just last week that asked the despicable and loaded question "Can Muslims be Good Americans?", it ended with the statement that The USMC wants this (hateful) message sent all over the world...

I answered the forward with the question, "Can Jews be Good Germans?"

On another note, the cartoons by Danish cartoonist Westergaard (sp?)have much in common with the anti-Jewish cartoons of the 3rd Reich...look them up.


The nation is desperately sick, uninformed and easily led by the fear-mongers and racist pigs.
SHAME ON YOU!!!!

[Rebubula]

7. LOLZ

"The nation is desperately sick, uninformed and easily led by the fear-mongers and racist pigs.
SHAME ON YOU!!!!"


I agree that America has its problems and has been a bastard in recent years...but don't go acting like the only place that you find hatred is in the US. People have been segregating themselves and declaring war on others since the inception of society.

This is NOT a USA, USA, USA post...I just get tired of people thinking that all the world's ills are due to America. Pakistanians hate the Indians (and vice-versa) , Japan has been raping, pillaging and killing people in China and Korea for centuries, Turkey and Iraq have slaughtered Kurds for decades, Shia and Sunni have been at each other's throats since the 8th Century. Humans have a long and bloody history.

Our Nation is crammed full of hundreds of cultures that, for the most part, get along and prosper side by side. Feel free to spit at us from Amsterdam if it makes you feel better. I guess that you are in a position to cast the first stone...

[demoleft]

10. "I just get tired of people thinking that all the world's ills are due to America" - me too.

and to think just of the balkan war - right in the core of our civilized europe - with its ethnic rapes and massacres.
US is a big democracy with mixed cultures that make it rich. it shows problems but its multi-ethnicity works, and works fine, compared to the mess some countries do with it - first in line italy, my own.

[The Stranger]

81. "I just get tired of people thinking that all the world's ills are due to America."

Not to point out the obvious, but the survey is done SPECIFICALLY ABOUT AMERICA. It's not about "all the world's ills," but SPECIFICALLY AMERICA'S ILLS.

[treestar]

85. You have a point, in fact, once in the US those groups no longer seem

to have to kill each other. Maybe they advocate regarding what is going on back home, but they don't attack each other physically here, or if they do, it is rare.

We have so much diversity we almost can't bother.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mallard]

38. Re: good church goers

"It wasn't Presbyterian church ladies who slammed jetliners into the Twin Towers."

Well, many others aren't quite convinced it was those who they told us did it, either!

[treestar]

86. They think that it's a good point but it's not

Because they want to tar every single Muslim with that act, which is where the bigotry lies.

Yet not all white men are to be tainted by Timothy McVeigh's acts. They never can explain why that is.

You can bet some Presbyterian church lady could do a vile thing, and all the others would not be suspect because of it.

[Fumesucker]

19. Funny, this happened 18 years ago now..

These Muslims were doing what we wanted, leaving Kuwait.

And yet they got slaughtered anyway.

[DissedByBush]

32. I remember that

Seriously. I remember that. Like I drove on it.

Most of those vehicles were abandoned. They took off on foot when they saw the planes.

Otherwise, what you are looking at is the results of the Iraqi occupation force, full of looters, rapists and murderers, trying to escape Kuwait with their loot.

They were armed.

They were shooting back.

They died in a war their side started.

[Nihil]

54. Hey, you forgot one ...

> Otherwise, what you are looking at is the results of the Iraqi occupation
> force, full of looters, rapists and murderers, trying to escape Kuwait
> with their loot.

Don't forget incubator stealers - remember how they threw those babies out
so they could loot all the incubators?!


> They died in a war their side started.

True, albeit with the initial permission of the US government that was later
flipped in a classic "betray your ally" trap so that the glorious imperial
forces could have a nice little showcase for their whizzy weapons ...

And to think that they had the goddamn *cheek* to shoot back at you ...
those ingrates should have just swallowed the bullets without a murmur of
complaint.

[Fumesucker]

58. Full of people who had no control over what their government did..

Rather less than the amount of control we have what our government does, which often feels very much like none at all.

[DissedByBush]

70. Being a soldier is one thing

Raping and looting is quite another.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Douglas Carpenter]

34. the same excuses could be made to justify bigotry against blacks, gays and Jews

Any hate-site will be full of anecdotal examples to justify what ever bigotry they are peddling. Anti-black racist groups will list all kinds of reports of crime rates and statistics to justify racism against blacks. Anti-semite groups will put together all kinds of "evidence" to convince people to vilify Jews. Right-wing anti-gay groups will list loads of "data" to legitimize prejudice against gay people.

But none of this can face the simple fact that the vast majority of African-Americans, gay people and Jewish people are just ordinary people who are not harming anyone - just like the vast majority of Muslim people.

The difference is that in polite and liberal society. it is no longer socially acceptable these days to frame things in such a way to illicit prejudice against blacks, gays and Jews. But we see it all the time directed against Arab and Muslim people - even on what suppose to be a "liberal/progressive" forum.

As the report above mentioned, "Researchers also found a link between prejudice against Jews and Muslims. Americans who acknowledged "a great deal" of bias toward Jews were much more likely to feel the same about Muslims. The survey results could not explain why the two prejudices are linked. Mogahed said bias against both groups should be tracked and studied together to understand the dynamic."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100121/ap_on_re/us_rel_muslims_prejudice

I've always had a suspicion that a lot of the hateful rhetoric directed against Muslims is actually coming from closet anti-Semites or other bigots who feel socially constrained from publicly expressing anti-Semitism or other forms of bigotry, but feel much more free to openly express their general bigotry against a more marginalized group such as Muslims.

,

[LeftishBrit]

37. IMO the reason why prejudice against Jews and Muslims (and other minorities) often goes together...

is that all these prejudices really reflect suspicion, sometimes reaching the point of hatred, against those who are in some way recognizably 'different' from oneself or one's own group. For the most part, religious prejudice as such has IMO rather little to do with hostility to Muslims or Jews. Most antisemites or Islamophobes or anti-Catholics probably know very little about the religion or cultural traditions of 'the Other'; they just regard the others are a different 'tribe' to themselves, and probably an enemy; or worse, as unwelcome misfits wihin their own gates, who can be used as scapegoats, just as the playground bully may target the fat child, the one with glasses, or one who just happens to like a different sort of music.

'it is no longer socially acceptable these days to frame things in such a way to elicit prejudice against blacks, gays and Jews'

Not sure about this - it just has to be done a bit more subtly. Thus, in the UK, it's not socially correct to express prejudice against non-whites as such - but a lot of sentiment against 'immigrants' really reflects racial prejudice. (It is said that one British racist once wrote on a wall, 'ETHNICS OUT!' instead of the terms more usually used by such people.) In many places, 'Jews' may be reframed as 'Zionists' and opposition to Israeli actions may be used to justify attacks on Jews in Europe or America, just as opposition to actions by some Muslim countries or groups may be used to justify attacks on Muslims - or people who just look as though they might be Muslim. Gays may be accused of 'pushing their agenda', and their demands for equal rights regarded as some sort of petty selfish interest which should not be treated as important by others. And so forth.

Ultimately, all of these things represent a scapegoating of those seen as 'different'.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftishBrit]

44. In the UK, most terrorists have been Christians...

Catholics and Protestants attacking each other,especially in Northern Ireland but sometimes spreading to the mainland, and dragging loads of innocent bystanders into it. Most of this disappeared finally with the Good Friday agreement, but there are still extremists who try at intervals to start things up again.

I am not going to blame all Catholics or Protestants for that!

[Violet_Crumble]

48. And there was a fair bit of terrorism in Spain and Germany at one point...

Though I've never seen anyone at DU label it Christian terrorism. While religion plays a part in most terrorism, the far larger driving factor is political...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. "For the record I know this is not all Muslims."

Nah, I think it is.

You don't go around attacking Christianity for the OKC bombings or the KKK.

[Violet_Crumble]

41. 'I have Muslims in my extended family who are just regular people.'

Ah, the equivalent of the 'some of my best friends are Jews' line that I've seen trotted out by some antisemites. Something yr probably not aware of was that in Nazi Germany a lot of Germans wrote letters to the Nazis pleading for their Jewish friends to be left alone because they were just regular people who weren't like the others, who all had brought the distrust on themselves..r post reminded me of those letters....

There's no justification for bigotry against any group...

[M155Y_A1CH]

20. Propaganda wins the day

We are left to speculate as to who our enemy is in Iraq.

The chimp's self-proclaimed crusade must surely be about religion. Historically that is the definition of crusade.

All those troops and bombs must be doing something over there.
There must be some purpose to our military action.

What must that purpose be in a crusade?
We must be fighting against Xtian nonbelievers, right.

We can't be expected to hate the oil barons. They are our heroes, right.
Don't tell me anything, I've seen the ads.
:sarcasm:

[LeftishBrit]

36. Let's be careful about jumping out of the frying pan into the fire...

or in this case out of Islamophobia into 'Americanophobia'.

Hostile generalizations about any country or culture, especially about such a large and diverse nation as America, or such a large and diverse group as Muslims, are risky and prejudiced.

Few countries, even among democracies, are perfect as regards prejudice about 'the Other'. America has the Christian Right. We have the Sun and the Daily Mail. You have Geert Wilders. It's a pervasive problem that we must all co-operate in solving.

[The Stranger]

82. This survey is specifically addressing prejudice, and finds one in particular to be most virulent.

I know we see our usual number of apologists, but it is what it is. It's racism and bigotry.

[noamnety]

4. I find it reliable

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4234338#4235066

[PassingFair]

5. What about the world's "non-religious" population? We are far more numerous than Jews...

Seems to be a glaring omission, and I'd
bet we rank under "Muslims" for the
"dislike" factor.

[Tim01]

12. Some people got kind of upset watching americans burn to death in the towers.

And some people don't need an excuse to be prejudice, just someone to agree with them.

[Mari333]

14. I didnt like watching people die in Oklahoma City Bombing either

but I dont go around yelling at every short haired white Christian man I meet for it.

[leftynyc]

18. So you really

want to go there? A side by side comparison of terrorist acts in the last 10-15 years comparing those who do it in the name of their religion - Christian vs Muslim? Really?

[Mari333]

24. I have muslim friends and christian friends, all peaceful people

and every religion has their fanatics, always have. to single out one over the other is absurd.

[leftynyc]

43. True enough

I'm not saying what is reality is right (yes, there is a bigotry against Muslims right now in this point in history). But to say it comes out of nowhere is putting your head in the sand. Even if it's only 5% of Muslims that are jihadis (or sympathizers), that's still a lot of people. It's time for the other 95% to take their religion back.

[treestar]

87. You are holding people responsible for the acts of others because

they are members of the same religion.

Bigotry.

[Violet_Crumble]

93. They're also justifying why bigotry happens...

I'd be very curious to know if they feel the same way when it comes to other religions. I'm just going to tweak its post and aim it at another religious group...

'I'm not saying what is reality is right (yes, there is a bigotry against Jews right now in this point in history). But to say it comes out of nowhere is putting your head in the sand. Even if it's only a tiny percentage of Jews that are Kahanists or who attack Palestinian civilians in the West Bank), that's still a lot of people. It's time for the rest of them to take their religion back.'

Surely no-one would find that acceptable if it were said about Jews, so why does leftynyc find it acceptable to say it about Muslims?

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PassingFair]

55. Was "shock and awe" a terrorist act?

I think it was.



How many civilians did we kill in Iraq?
Why did we kill them?

I bet it looks like terror to THEM.

[leftynyc]

57. I believe it was

but it's still not a valid comparison (imo). We're talking (at least I am) about terrorism done in a specific religion's name.

[PassingFair]

60. What about incising bible verses on our gun sights?

I know many people that say we (Xtians) are
at war with Islam.

[leftynyc]

62. Stupid beyond belief

but I'm not aware of any government involvement in that. Or that these guns were specifically ordered with these verses by our military. Is there any proof of that?

[PassingFair]

66. Plenty of "religious involvement" in our military....

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/us/25academies.html

"In interviews at West Point, seven cadets, two officers and a former chaplain said that religion, especially evangelical Christianity, was a constant at the academy. They said that until recently, cadets who did not attend religious services during basic training were sometimes referred to as “heathens.” They said mandatory banquets begin with prayer, including a reading from the Bible at a recent gala."

[leftynyc]

74. This very disturbing trend

is just beginning to get reported on - I understand that the Air Force is particularly bad. Do you believe this country is on a crusade right now? Are we trying to spread Christianity in all the lands? Is that the goal?

[PassingFair]

75. I believe that we are using that angle, and that it garners recruits.

So, yes.

I believe that many who join the armed forces,
especially during the last 8 years, did so to
fight "Islam".

I have heard many idiots here (Michigan!) spout
the same crap...so it is not relegated to the south.

[marshall]

53. McVeigh did not identify himself as a Christian

He said he was an agnostic, "science is my religion".

And he wasn't backed by a world wide organization.

[fascisthunter]

63. In a recorded interview with Time magazine McVeigh professed his belief in "a God",

In a recorded interview with Time magazine<80> McVeigh professed his belief in "a God", although he said he had "sort of lost touch with" Catholicism and "I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs." Throughout his childhood, he and his father were Roman Catholic and regularly attended daily Mass at Good Shepherd Church in Pendleton, New York. The Guardian reported that McVeigh wrote a letter to them claiming to be an agnostic. McVeigh once said that he believed the universe was guided by natural law, energized by some universal higher power that showed each person right from wrong if they paid attention to what was going on inside them. He had also said, "Science is my religion."

McVeigh stated lot's of things.

[marshall]

68. And how many divergent stories have the present day terrorits given about their religious beliefs?

They all seem pretty grounded and consistent in their adherence to one religion.

[Violet_Crumble]

76. All present day terrorists aren't Muslim

I've just come from another thread where you posted a link to a site that has claimed that all Palestinians are terrorists, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised...

[marshall]

83. I agree that not all terrorists are Muslims

I guess a statistic would actually hinge on how you define the word terrorist. So much of the public knowledge of such things is clouded by the media as well. But I do think we formulate a more effective way of moving forward if we understand the situation as it really is.

[24601]

80. And then he died, as was appropriate for a murdering terrorist, be

he/she foreign or domestic. Too bad for McVeigh he didn't have a "Free Timmy" faction lobbying on his behalf like Mumia does.

Judge Pickett was the local judge in Tombstone, Arizona. Because of the soaring crime rate, he had some free time and taught several legal blocks, probably less than a week in a 9-month comprehensive course at nearby Fort Huachuca. Telling us how a grandfather had gone to jail after being convicted for selling drugs to kids, he explained his legal philosophy, "Assholes go to jail." The grandfather had told the judge that he figured his age would keep him out of jail.

My version of this is that when convicted "murdering terrorist assholes go to death row." For foreign terrorists, I'd prefer a military tribunal. Ex Parte Quirin, 317 U.S. 1 (1942) upheld military commissions for those coming here to attack us but not wearing uniforms & carrying arms openly - among those things distinguishing unlawful from lawful combatants and POWs. In 1942, civilian courts of course were up and running, but as the court ruled,

"Lawful combatants are subject to capture and detention as prisoners of war by opposing military forces. Unlawful combatants are likewise subject to capture and detention, but in addition they are subject to trial and punishment by military tribunals for acts which render their belligerency unlawful. 8 The spy who secretly and without uniform passes the military lines of a belligerent in time of war, seeking to gather military information and communicate it to the enemy, or an enemy combatant who without uniform comes secretly through the lines for the purpose of waging war by destruction of life or property, are familiar examples of belligerents who are generally deemed not to be entitled to the status of prisoners of war, but to be offenders against the law of war subject to trial and punishment by military tribunals."

[treestar]

88. So, that does not mean his victims are any less dead?

What kind of crap is this?

Why aren't other white people held responsible then, and exhorted to get their race under control?

There are many sects of Muslims and of various degrees of devotion - some who are from entirely different countries and had no idea of what Al Qaeda was doing.

[callous taoboy]

28. What a stupid comment.

Big difference between radicalized Muslims and Muslims.

[Coventina]

13. I predict greatness for this thread.

:popcorn:

[Violet_Crumble]

45. I've learnt that those who are victims of bigotry brought it on themselves...

..after all, it doesn't happen in a vacuum...even if it's 5% of the group who are bad, that's a lot of them....blah blah blah. Hey, I wonder how this stuff would work aimed at Jews or indigenous Australians? ;)

[The Straight Story]

15. Maybe in the rest of America, but on DU bias is more against christians

which to some here is just fine and dandy, cause bias is good when it is someone we hate.

[Violet_Crumble]

47. No offense, but you can't tolerate any criticism of Christianity...

That's very different than the hatred and discrimination against Muslims that happens in the US, and is seen here at DU. Just take a look at some of the posts in this thread to spot them in action...

[The Straight Story]

65. I criticize christians myself

But look at the tone here, especially if someone posts a thread about something a muslim did folks chime in 'christians are just as bad' - start some of the same threads here about jews or muslims, and people would accuse you of hate.

[Violet_Crumble]

67. Christians aren't persecuted or discriminated against...

So it's okay for you to have people point out things Muslims do, but if someone points out when Christians do it, that's bigoted and hateful?

I get so sick and tired of seeing some Americans complain that Christians are the victims of discrimination and bigotry. While it's clear that Muslims and Jews and other minority religious groups are, that's not the case at all when it comes to Christians in the US...

[The Straight Story]

69. I was referring to attitude and double standards

Say the same thing about muslims/jews/etc here and people say you are being hateful.

Just not sure why some are not consistent.

[Violet_Crumble]

71. If yr talking about the superheated militant atheist types, I tend to agree..

Though most of them are consistant with their hate and ugliness and don't save it for just one religion like some are prone to do when it comes to Muslims or Jews. What I find so wrong is for example where Muslims are singled out and there's demands they must rise up against the extremists, even though the same people would accuse others of being bigoted if they made that same demand of Jews when it comes to the very violent and extreme religious settlers in the West Bank, or even Christians and the Army of God lunatics. I have a healthy contempt for all religion, but when it comes to the vast majority of people who are religious, I have nothing but contempt for anyone who'd single a person out because they're a certain religion and create nasty and negative stereotypes about them...

[The Straight Story]

72. Well, I think we agree :)

Example, people can talk about some Christians and their desire to control issues/govt and influence government. I think the same can be said about other faiths as well (but mentioning them by name gets one a lot of flack).

I am a Christian myself, but despise what the faith has become these days. I feel the same about other 'fundies' of other faiths - but sometimes, here anyway, trying to expose the same issues when it comes to other faiths, is seen as hate/bias.

Mention Christians and their influence on something, no problem. Mention the same with Judaism/Muslims/etc and suddenly you get labeled a hater or someone thinks you just don't like that group and are biased.

Why the kid gloves for other faiths? And I am not talking in general when it comes to society, I mean here on DU. Talk about C street and dominion style Christian folks and their desire for influence, and we are all over it - replace Christian with another group though and... well you are seen as an anti-Semite or rw'er for talking in broad brush strokes against Muslims.

Either we use the same measuring stick for all or we don't, and right now it seems like we don't. The reason seems to be - talking about conspiracies in regards to other faiths is seen as promoting hate, but other times it is seen as being vigilant.

Which is it?

[Violet_Crumble]

77. Yeah, I think we do agree...

There's a few little tangental things I don't agree with you about, but they're not biggies :)

[auburnblu]

73. For some on DU

It is "enlightened" to mock people of faith. Sad, but reality.

[krabigirl]

92. Nope, just against intolerant fundys.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

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[izquierdista]

21. But those of ALL faiths can agree

That atheists are the evilest, nastiest, most intolerant, hideous, immoral, filthiest dregs of all!

[rayofreason]

23. Not quite.

In Islam, apostates - those who leave Islam - are the worst and condemned to death.

Try this. Google "convert from islam" and see what you get. First, most of the links are about conversion TO Islam and resources to help you, and all kinds of testimonials from converts TO Islam. All out there in the open, not subject to restriction or violence. Not so much for resources to help you convert FROM Islam. In fact, any open advocacy of such would likely result in violence by Islamists.

Midway down page 1 you find something that does link to "convert from Islam" - a story about a convert to Christianity who was murdered.

Page 2 is the same - all about conversion TO Islam. And so it goes on subsequent pages. The only mentions of conversion FROM Islam involve real or potential violence against converts. In the first 10 pages (all I looked at) there is not a single link to a site advocating conversion FROM Islam or presenting a positive story about or testimonial from a convert FROM Islam.

Islam is a religious diode - current flows only one way. That one way aspect is enforced with violence of the worst sort. So anyone who jumps out of Islam is worse than the atheist. The atheist is not automatically to be killed. The apostate is.

[Psephos]

35. "a religious diode"

an apt description indeed

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[Jeff In Milwaukee]

25. I was watching a Muslim stand up comedian (seriously)

And he noted that even though violence was up against Muslims since 9/11, Muslims were still fourth on the list behind Blacks, Gays, and Women.

"Fourth place?" the comedian asks incredulously, "What the FUCK do we have to do to you people?!"

Funny guy. I forget his name, though.

[Coventina]

26. Ha! I saw that too! In the extras for Farenheit 911!

That was one of the best "extras" I've ever enjoyed on a DVD.

Remember this one?: "When I was growing up in New Jersy...you were either Italian, or you were my father."

[Douglas Carpenter]

33. you are speaking of the Egyptian-American comedian, Ahmed Ahmed of he "Axis of Evil Comedy Tour"

link:

http://www.axisofevilcomedy.com/

[Codeine]

50. I love that dude. "Arab-Americans are not responsible for 9-11;

now 7-11. . ." :rofl:

[LeftishBrit]

29. In the UK, there is certainly prejudice against Muslims...

but far more against 'immigrants'. I suspect that the former is often a symptom of the latter: people aren't so much prejudiced against certain immigrants and their descendants because they practice Islam, as prejudiced against Islam because it's a religiou practiced by 'a bunch of bloody foreigners'!

In recent polls, only 16% of Brits admitted to negative views of Islam, while 50% supported 'voluntary' repatriation of immigrants (thanks, tabloids!)

[w4rma]

31. Not more than against athiests. Yes, athiesm is a faith. (nt)

[Codeine]

51. Atheism is not a faith. nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

59. Learn to spell correctly. It's athEIst. -nt

[Violet_Crumble]

39. All you have to do is read the ugly justifications for Islamophobia in this thread to see it...

It's so ugly to see people who claim to be left-wing spouting the 'they brought it on themselves' line....

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fascisthunter]

64. .

[captain jack]

56. ...........and the Muslims Must Go!

Hopefully my historian friends get the historical association.

[fascisthunter]

61. YES, I do...

I received plenty of right wing trash during Bush's term in office with anti-muslim bigotry in them. Although, I'd place Mexicans as a good second.

[JackRiddler]

78. How can we get them to catch up in their rejection of the other religions?

[kath]

79. And then there's the bias against non-believers...

Oy.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JCMach1]

90. This is the idiot Saudis...!

Last time I checked, the Koran didn't mention mobiles...

[Douglas Carpenter]

91. there are roughly 1.3 billion Muslims in the world and about 7 million Muslim Americans

The vast majority of Muslims are just normal people living very ordinary lives and not harming anyone. No. female mutilation is not practiced by the overwhelming majority of Muslims - even in in countries as strict as Saudi Arabia. It is mostly in East Africa and some other remote regions - the vast majority of Muslims find that horrid practice abominable.

So-called honor killing most certainly happens - but frankly the amount of deaths from that barbaric practice is still vastly less than domestic homicides in the United States where husbands or fathers murder their wives or daughters. There is also a great outcry against honor killing coming from within the Muslim world. Queen Noor of Jordan has made exposing it and trying to stop its practice a committed cause. The Palestinian media among along with medias throughout the Islamic world have probably done more to expose it and call for its end - then just about anyone else. Afterall, it is their speaking out, that is probably the largest reason why these stories even make it into the Western media.

For all the horrible acts of terror, it still pales in comparison to the number of deaths brought against Muslim people whether in Iraq and elsewhere in the region - by the more civilized U.S. military and its allies.

Yes, one can find loads and loads of anecdotal evidence to attack the world's 1.3 billions Muslims or even America's 7 million American-Muslims. After all, it would be just as easy to give anecdotal examples of things in Africa or Latin America that Western sensibilities would find shocking. It would be just as easy to find anecdotal material to attack Jewish society or gay sub-culture that could be presented in a manner meant to attack and demean. Any hate-site will be full of anecdotal examples to justify what ever bigotry they are peddling. Anti-black racist groups will list all kinds of reports of crime rates and statistics to justify racism against blacks. Anti-semite groups will put together all kinds of "evidence" to convince people to vilify Jews. Right-wing anti-gay groups will list loads of "data" to legitimize prejudice against gay people.

But none of this can face the simple fact that the vast majority of African-Americans, gay people and Jewish people are just ordinary people who are not harming anyone - just like the vast majority of Muslim people.

But it is simply not as socially acceptable in polite-liberal society these days to overtly demean and degrade blacks,latinos gays or Jews. It still happens of course. But bigots know that in educated and liberal society they will be quickly, soundly and quite rightly censored . But the racists and the bigots also know that Arab and Muslim people are still vulnerable and whether consciously or subconsciously they focus their hateful worldview on these groups.

We keep hearing people say that Muslim leaders should speak up and denounce extremism if they want people to know the other side - short of standing on their heads and saying "Simon says" - I really don't know what more they can do to get their message across

.

here are just three fairly recent ones, all recently posted right here on DU - but frankly, a simple google search will reveal countless cases going back years were Muslim leaders have condemned acts of terror and extremism of all kinds:

U.S. Muslims Condemn Attack at Fort Hood

Posted 11/5/2009 6:15:00 PM
http://www.cair.com/ArticleDetails.aspx?ArticleID=26126

(WASHINGTON, D.C., 11/5/09) - A prominent national Muslim civil rights and advocacy group tonight condemned an attack on Fort Hood military base in Texas that left at least 12 people dead.

In a statement, the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) said:

“We condemn this cowardly attack in the strongest terms possible and ask that the perpetrators be punished to the full extent of the law. No religious or political ideology could ever justify or excuse such wanton and indiscriminate violence. The attack was particularly heinous in that it targeted the all-volunteer army that protects our nation. American Muslims stand with our fellow citizens in offering both prayers for the victims and sincere condolences to the families of those killed or injured.”

Along with innumerable condemnations of terror, CAIR has in the past launched an online anti-terror petition drive called “Not in the Name of Islam,” initiated a television public service announcement (PSA) campaign against religious extremism and coordinated a “fatwa,” or Islamic religious ruling, against terrorism and extremism.

SEE: CAIR’s Anti-Terrorism Campaigns

link: http://www.cair.com/AmericanMuslims/AntiTerrorism.aspx

Islamic states condemn attack on Danish cartoonist

January 4, 2010 7:56 a.m. EST

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/01/04/denmark.cartoonist/

(CNN) -- The attack on a Danish political cartoonist "runs totally against the teachings and values of Islam," the umbrella organization representing Muslim countries has said.

Muslims on the Mall

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/georgetown/2009/09/the_national_mall_is_for_all.html?hpid=talkbox1

The Star-Ledger reported last week that a mosque in Elizabeth, New Jersey, Dar-ul-Islam, will spearhead a national prayer gathering for September 25 in Washington, D.C., "that organizers are billing as the first event of its kind--organized prayer for tens of thousands of Muslims outside the U.S. Capitol building."

The paper quoted Hassen Abdellah, president of Dar-ul-Islam and an event organizer: "Most of the time, when Muslims go to Washington, D.C., they go there to protest some type of event...This is not a protest. Never has the Islamic community prayed on Capitol Hill for the soul of America. We're Americans. We need to change the face of Islam so people don't feel every Muslim believes America is 'the great Satan,' because we love America. "

The Star-Ledger reports that "A permit from the Capitol Hill police, granted July 28, allows access to the area by the West Front of the Capitol building from 4 a.m. to 7 p.m. on Sept. 25, but the main gathering will occur at 1 p.m., for the Friday prayer service. Abdellah said he expects 50,000 people to attend, from mosques around the country, though non-Muslims are welcome, too."

Abdellah stated the idea germinated after President Obama's inaugural speech, and was reinforced by this summer's Cairo address: "For the first time in my lifetime," Abdellah said, "I heard someone of his stature speaking about Islam and Muslims not in an adversarial sense, but in the sense of being welcome and acknowledging we are integral citizens in the society -- that we're gainfully employed, we're educated."

below are a list of statements assembled by CAIR - the largest and most influential Muslim organization in North America

for links to complete statements: http://www.cair.com/AmericanMuslims/AntiTerrorism.aspx

Fatwa Against Terrorism

CAIR backs Fatwa against Terrorism. English, Arabic, Urdu radio anti-terror PSAs released (Washington, D.C., 7/28/05) - The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) today offered its support for a fatwa, or Islamic religious ruling, against terrorism and extremism issued by the Fiqh Council of North America (FCNA) and endorsed by more than 120 U.S. Muslim groups, leaders and institutions.


Not in the Name of Islam Petition

The “Not in the Name of Islam” petition states: “We, the undersigned Muslims, wish to state clearly that those who commit acts of terror, murder and cruelty in the name of Islam are not only destroying innocent lives, but are also betraying the values of the faith they claim to represent. No injustice done to Muslims can ever justify the massacre of innocent people, and no act of terror will ever serve the cause of Islam. We repudiate and dissociate ourselves from any Muslim group or individual who commits such brutal and un-Islamic acts. We refuse to allow our faith to be held hostage by the criminal actions of a tiny minority acting outside the teachings of both the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.



Persistent and Consistent Condemnation of Terrorism

The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) has a clear record of consistently and persistently condemning terrorism. Yet American Muslim groups like CAIR get repeatedly asked the question why have Muslims not spoken out against terrorism? The fact is they have, but who is listening? This prompted one media commentator to ask, “Are Muslims condemning terror to the deaf?”



CAIR Statements on the Events of September 11

"We condemn in the strongest terms possible what are apparently vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts."



CAIR: Video Shows Bin Laden's Complicity in 9-11 Attacks

(Washington, DC, 12/13/2001) The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), a Washington-based Islamic advocacy group, today offered its reaction to the videotape of Osama bin Laden released by the Pentagon.

CAIR stated: For anyone who was not convinced of Osama bin Laden's complicity in the events of September 11, the content of this videotape should remove all doubt. Bin Laden clearly spoke as someone who had foreknowledge of the attacks.



CAIR Condemnation of Suicide Bombing

(WASHINGTON, D.C., 3/28/2002) - The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), a Washington-based Islamic advocacy group, today condemned a bomb attack on a Passover celebration in the Middle East that left 20 people dead and more than 100 wounded.

In a statement, CAIR said: "We condemn this attack and all other attacks on innocent civilians. Illegitimate and counterproductive tactics must not be used in the legitimate struggle to end Israel's brutal occupation.



CAIR Full Page Advertisement in Washington Post on September 16, 2001

"We at the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), along with the entire American Muslim community are deeply saddened by the massive loss of life resulting from the tragic events of September 11. American Muslims utterly condemn the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all American in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts."



Canadian Muslim Scholars Reject "Misguided" Calls For Jihad

(OTTAWA, CANADA) - The Canadian office of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR CAN) and the Canadian Muslim Civil Liberties Association (CMCLA) today denounced a series of recent statements made by Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaeda network that state that Muslims should wage a "jihad" against Americans.



Toledo Muslims Condemn Attack on US, Ask Media to Excercise Restraint

TOLEDO, OH-- The United Muslim Association of Toledo, expresses its deepest regret at the death of our fellow citizens around the United States. The United Muslim Association condemns these acts of senseless violence. As American Muslims we are saddened by this loss of life. We offer our condolences to the families of the victims and pray for the recovery of those injured in the explosion. We call for a comprehensive investigation into the circumstances that led to this tragedy and full disclosure of the findings.



Rallying to Make a Difference Hundreds of Families and Community Leaders

"I'm here because I think I can try to make a difference – to inform the public about what's going on," he said.

Imad joined hundreds of other families and community leaders, Muslim and non-Muslim, on Saturday for a rally against terrorism sponsored by the Council on American-Islamic Relations-DFW.

He stood with his siblings and cousins holding banners and American flags.



American Muslim Response to the September Attacks

We, the undersigned Muslim organizations, support the President and Congress of the U.S. in the struggle against terrorism. Holding to the ideals of both our religion and our country, we condemn all forms of terrorism, and confirm the need for perpetrators of any such acts of violence to be brought to justice, including those who carried out the attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001.



ISNA Joins AMPCC in Condemning Terrorist Attacks

(Plainfield, IN – 9/11/2001) – The Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), along with other Muslim organizations throughout North America, today condemned the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington and offered condolences to the families of those who were killed or injured.

The AMPCC statement read in part: "American Muslims utterly condemn what are vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts."



ICNA Declares Friday, September 14, 2001, a Day of Mourning and Prayers

The Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA) is extremely horrified and saddened by the tragedy in New York and Washington D.C.

Our hearts and prayers are with the families of the victims of this horrible and despicable crime. We condemn this heinous act and call upon our political leaders and the media to act responsibly, and not generalize when speculating about the perpetrators.



Scholars of Islam Speak Out Against Terrorism; Clarify Position of Islam

Dozens of scholars of Islam issued a statement today, condemning the violent attacks of September 11th.

"We are grief-stricken at these horrifying events," they wrote; "the murder of innocents can never be justified and must not be tolerated."

In a lengthy statement, professors from major colleges and universities throughout the country expressed their compassion for grieving family members while also decrying the increase in violence against American Muslims this past week. "Anger and frustration are completely understandable and shared by us all," they wrote "yet that anger must not be directed at individuals utterly innocent of these terrible crimes.

U.S. Muslim Scholars Condemn Attacks

CHICAGO, Sept 12 (IslamOnline) - Muslim scholars in North America unanimously condemned the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon and expressed their deep sorrow and sympathy for those Americans who were killed and injured.

The Detroit-based Shari'a Scholars Association of North America (SSANA) strongly condemned the attack and said that there is no cause that justifies "this type of an immoral and inhumane act that has affected so many innocent American lives."


Call for Holy War Condemned by Florida Muslim Cleric

Osama bin Laden and his call for a jihad, or holy war, against the United States were denounced in a scathing address on Friday by the leader of one of Florida's largest mosques.

"There are some who tarnish Islam, who do terror in the name of Islam," said Maulana Shafayat Mohamed, head of Darul Uloom Institute in Pembroke Pines. "They confuse jihad with their own problems. We must educate them about Islam, so they will not corrupt it."



Experts Say bin Laden Is Distorting Islamic Law

Leading American scholars and practitioners of Islam said yesterday that Osama bin Laden had twisted and debased Muslim theology in a videotaped statement in which he called on "every Muslim" to "rush to make his religion victorious" by emulating those who attacked the United States on Sept. 11.

Ingrid Mattson, a professor of Islamic studies and Muslim-Christian relations at Hartford Seminary in Hartford, said there was no basis in Islamic law or sacred text for Mr. bin Laden's remarks.



American Muslim Scholar Declares: Terrorists are Mass Murderers, not Martyrs

Tuesday's terrorist attacks have saddened and maddened millions -- and raised questions for many about Islam. Speculation abounds that the hijackers were inspired by terrorists like Osama bin Laden, who teach that violent acts can pave the way to paradise.

But what does Islam really say about such matters? About jihad and martyrdom?

We asked Hamza Yusuf, an Islamic scholar in the East Bay, who said the attackers were ``enemies of Islam.'' Not martyrs, but ``mass murderers, pure and simple.''



Muslim Religious Figures Condemn Terrorism

* "Hijacking Planes, terrorizing innocent people and shedding blood constitute a form of injustice that can not be tolerated by Islam, which views them as gross crimes and sinful acts."

Shaykh Abdul Aziz al-Ashaikh (Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia and Chairman of the Senior Ulama, on September 15th, 2001)

*The terrorists acts, from the perspective of Islamic law, constitute the crime of hirabah (waging war against society)."



Islamic Statements Against Terrorism in the Wake of the September 11 Mass Murders

Mustafa Mashhur, General Guide, Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt; Qazi Hussain Ahmed, Ameer, Jamaat-e-Islami Pakistan, Pakistan; Muti Rahman Nizami, Ameer, Jamaat-e-Islami Bangladesh, Bangladesh; Shaykh Ahmad Yassin, Founder, Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas), Palestine; Rashid Ghannoushi, President, Nahda Renaissance Movement, Tunisia; Fazil Nour, President, PAS - Parti Islam SeMalaysia, Malaysia; and 40 other Muslim scholars and politicians:


Messages From Shaikh Muhammad Yusuf Islahi

The sudden barbaric attack on innocent citizens living in peace is extremely distressing and deplorable. Every gentle human heart goes out to the victims of this attack and as humans we are ashamed at the barbarism perpetrated by a few people.


Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi Condemns Attacks Against Civilians: Forbidden in Islam

DOHA, Qatar, Sept 13 (IslamOnline & News Agencies) - Renowned Muslim scholar Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi denounced the attacks against civilians in the U.S. Tuesday and encouraged Muslims to donate blood to the victims of the attack.

In response to the bloody attack against civilians in the U.S., Sheikh Yusuf issued a statement Wednesday saying that:

Muslim World Condemns Attacks on U.S.

DUBAI, Sept 12 (IslamOnline & News Agencies) - The Muslim world expressed condemnation Wednesday towards the attacks that occurred Tuesday in the United States, news agencies reported.

The Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) grouping 57 Muslim states condemned Wednesday the previous day's attacks on the United States, Agence France-Presse (AFP) reported.



Expressions of grief and sympathy in the Arab and Muslim world

For many of us, one of the most disturbing images of these past painful weeks has been that of the celebration of a few Palestinian youths after the tragedy.

This image has been played over and over again on CNN, thus reinforcing the myth that somehow the whole of the Arab and Muslim world rejoices at our pain.



Bin Laden's violence is a heresy against Islam

IN what sense were the World Trade Centre bombers members of Islam? This question has been sidelined by many Western analysts impatient with the niceties of theology; but it may be the key to understanding the recent attacks, and assessing the long-term prospects for peace in the Muslim world.


Koran a Book of Peace, Not War, Scholars Say

Osama bin Laden, who is widely assumed to be the force behind the September 11 hijackings in the United States, cites the Koran, Islam's most holy book, as the inspiration for terrorist attacks. But Muslim scholars around the world who are reviled by such actions explain that the Koran preaches peace.

http://www.cair.com/AmericanMuslims/AntiTerrorism.aspx

Here is a list of official Fatwas condenming terrorism, violence against civilians and extremism

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslim_voices_against_extremism_and_terrorism_part_i_fatwas/0012209


of course there are several other denunciations other than formal Islamic Fatwas

Statements by Organizations -

several links:
http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslim_voices_against_extremism_terrorism_part_ii_statements_by_organizatio/0012210

Statements and Articles by Individuals several links

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslim_voices_against_extremism_and_terrorism_part_iii_statements_articles/0012211
(see also power point presentations) - http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/powerpoint_presentations/

A Few Quotes A-K

(actually several)
http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslim_voices_against_extremism_and_terrorism_a_few_quotes/0012273

A few Quotes L-Z (actually, a LOT more than a few

)
http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslim_voices_against_extremism_and_terrorism_a_few_quotes_l_z/0014337

The Muslim Majority Who Don’t Get Publicity

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslim_voices_against_extremism_and_terrorim_part_v_the_muslim_majority_who/0012322
and a power point presentation:

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/powerpoint_presentations/

Muslims and Arabs in the U.S. Military speak out:

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslims_in_the_military/0013612

Selective Hearing of Muslim Voices Against Extremism and Terrorism - many, many links:

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/selective_hearing_of_muslim_voices_against_extremism_and_terrorism/0012212

Sunni Shia Unity Resource -

collection of articles
http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/shia_sunni/003107

Muslim Voices Promoting Islamic Non Violent Solutions - several sources

http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/promoting_islamic_non_violent_solutions/0015593


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