Calif. Democrats revive single-payer health care

[Newsjock]

Source: Associated Press

A key legislative committee in California revived a bill Thursday to create a government-run health care system in the nation's most populous state, two days after Massachusetts elected a senator who opposes the president's national health care plan.

The Senate Appropriations Committee released the bill for a vote by the full Senate next week. The legislation had been held over from last year because of the state's ongoing budget crisis.

Creating a single-payer system would cost California an estimated $210 billion in its first year. That's roughly double the size of the total state budget, but about what the state and federal government and residents cumulatively spend now on California health care, said Sen. Mark Leno.

... Leno said the system could be funded with a payroll tax along with existing state and federal money and increased efficiencies from a state-managed system that eliminates the insurance middleman. Voters would have to approve the commission's funding plan, he said.

Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/latest/story/2480437.html

[frazzled]

1. Lot's of luck trying to institute a new tax in California

Isn't that why they're in the trouble they're in? They can't seem to raise taxes ever because of all the stupid referenda that keep getting passed that prevent lawmakers from raising taxes? Just sayin'.

[JDPriestly]

4. Health insurance is very expensive here in California.

And we are likely to get a Democratic governor this time around. We are ready to go on this. We want single payer. Republicans also want at least a public option. Democrats are in the majority in California. I think we can do this.

[ooglymoogly]

10. I don't think folks mind a new tax so much if they can see it accruing

to their benefit; As in single payer. The key that everyone does not want to recognize is that a good bill will be supported; A bad bill won't as proven here in Ma. They can twist and spin all they want but it all comes down to whether it is good for the majority and O's plan is not as good for the majority if at all, as it is good to fabulous, for the mega-corps.

[wryter2000]

44. It's not up to the people

It'll never get the supermajority it needs in the legislature. :hi:

[Cleita]

61. Actually, it has passed the legislature twice already, but Arnold keeps

vetoing it. I hope that next time will be the charm.

[goclark]

45. CA checking in ~ sounds good to me nt

[Cronus Protagonist]

55. Me too

And we're not alone.

[wryter2000]

58. I would like it

How would we get it through the legislature, though, with the tax part?

[kestrel91316]

64. We may want it. The people may want it. But it involves a tax increase,

and that makes it as dead in the water as the HCR bill is in Congress.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

23. Add a new tax....then subtract the premium you had been paying.

And if the company you work for gave you HC bennies there is a likelihood you'll see an increase in compensation down the road.

[LiberalFighter]

39. Provided they can be negotiated.

But, I wouldn't mind not receiving increased comp if everything else remained the same. If dental and vision is not included in the state plan then I would hope the company would continue to provide it.

Any business that currently provides benefits should be all for this. It would put all of them on a level playing field not having to compete with others in the same industry that don't provide it.

[on point]

37. New tax with cost offset savings

One of the problems in the Federal discussion of the health care plan was not enough focus on the NET cost difference. Looking at the tax alone, without also looking at the cost reduction provided is simply bad math.,

What is the total system cost one way, versus the other way.

Single payer will be a net saver to the consumer, taxes up, but health costs and insurance fees down.

[frazzled]

42. I agree, but it's difficult to make people understand that

It's strange how people are happy to dump huge chunks of their paychecks into the hands of their insurance companies, but bitch and scream if that same amount were to go to the government. I'm just saying, that's the psychology of the general populace. And it's especially strong in California.

A number of years ago, I had a conversation with a Dutch woman once (the wife of a visiting colleague of my husband's) who started to complain about the huge taxes she had to pay in the Netherlands. (I think it was almost 50% of her income). I admitted ours were lower, but then started to list off the things we had to pay for on our own: health insurance, day care (which she was getting for her two young children through the state), etc. It didn't take her long to realize her situation wasn't that bad. She couldn't imagine not having the access to health care, child benefits, and other programs.

[eridani]

65. There will be no new tax, only a transfer of insurance premium money to the state

--which people will like because the same amount of money in a single payer system will get them a hell of a lot more health care.

[Psephos]

2. The mind wobbles. n/t

[w4rma]

3. This is how we're going to get single-payer. State by state. They'll need to limit it to long-time

citizens of their state to prohibit everyone from using their state as a hospital.

[dogfacedboy]

7. Agreed. That's how it was done in Canada, and that's how it will be done here.

[dotymed]

12. That was Dennis Kucinich's

opinion when he realized (because he was forced out of the Presidential race), that Congress would not even consider a single payer system.

[dmallind]

34. Forced out? By not getting enough votes you mean? NT

[kenfrequed]

38. Yeah

The Des Moine register didn't vote for him, they did have all kinds of support for Alan Keyes (who didn't even seem to be runing). Oh yes and then there was that reporter that thought the most important question of the day for Dennis Kucinich was something from a Shirley MacLaine book.

Kucinich wasn't forced out, but there were a lot of people trying to push him out.

[truedelphi]

62. None of the set up was accidental. If you analyze the "subliminal" messages

Impressions created regarding the positioning of the candidates, with Clinton and Obama always having center stage (So the viewer, without even realizing it, decides they are more important) and Gavel, Kucinich and others always being on the outside. (Usually Kucinich was always farthest from the middle of the stage, etc, it was deliberate, CIA methods.) Anbd then those who crefully counted the minutes that each canddiate got to speak, Again, Clinton got the most time, then Obama, then the rest of the pack.

In the debates, some candidates like Gavel got less than six minutes, while Obama and Clinton both got over twenty!

We do not get a candidate unless they are CIA approved.

Our election machinery remains easy to corrupt and controllable by whomever the Powers That Be want to have remain in office.

[dotymed]

53. Not at all

He was forced out, even though he was marginalized by the MSM, by the huge financing given to his Congressional opponent,by both parties...they did not want to debate him. Guess you don't like Dennis or his idea's for America? What about HR676, Single Payer Health Care. Having fun on this site?

[zoff]

13. Ditto! A great example coming from a troubled state.

But its taxes vs benefits. I think benefits will win out.

[YewNork]

19. If it passes then there will have to be a residence period before insurance would kick in

Yes, if California, or any state, were able to implement single payer, they would need to have a qualifying period of residence before
a person would be eligible to enroll in the insurance plan. Otherwise, there would be people who would go there to be treated.

[LiberalFighter]

40. Or show that they have a bonafide job in the state?

Or require any employer that makes an offer of a job to an out of state to provide insurance until they establish residency?

[stubtoe]

48. Or a plurality of states. Once enough states take this on, then the Federal Govt.

will suddenly decide they want in on it too.

[Oregone]

5. This is where the doctors provide care and the state issues IOU's

Hey there doc, thats as good as cash! :)

[Sgent]

6. Never happen

states don't have the authority to touch Medicare or Employer health plans, and are severely limited on Medicaid. The individual market w/o a mandate is too scattered to be able to support it.

[BP2]

8. WTF. Wasn't Arnie just bashing HCR last week? eom

[Hekate]

11. Arnie's a Republican and a jerk.

But I repeat myself.

Hekate

[geardaddy]

35. I love it

:thumbsup:

[Bette Noir]

29. Arnie's a wind vane. He has no problem with changing his position every week.

And he's term limited, so the legislature can always do this next year, if he doesn't like it.

[MindPilot]

9. Just expand Medi-Cal to be available to everyone.

The program is already in place.

[sharesunited]

14. I am quite convinced that universal single payer requires the ability to create money.

If California state treasury IOU's circulate as money, then go for it.

But if it takes actual currency, only the federal government can do this successfully.

[harun]

16. Not that hard, it is how Canada got its system.

[sharesunited]

17. Why did the Hawaii experiment fail?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

27. doesn't mean that other states would fail?

Canada hasn't failed either

[happyslug]

33. On the net two reasons are cited

First, the recent plan to insure all children was stopped do to excess cost caused by the the fact that people whose children had private insurance dropped their private insurance for the much cheaper state plan (Claimed by the State, no data is cited to support that statement). I.e. if you repeat something often enough it becomes the truth even if it is not.

Second, was that the 1994 plan mandated insurance by employers was undermined by employers hiring people for less then 20 hours a week and thus exempt from the mandate. Thus it became commons, and this is common among ALL retailers even in the rest of the union, for employers to employ people only for 20 hours.

[eridani]

66. Bullshit. The money comes from the premiums that people are now paying to private insurers n/t

[Rosa Luxemburg]

15. Good. The Fed gov can give states start up funding

then all atates follow

[Imajika]

18. This is a joke right?

California? Seriously? The state is flat broke and the budget just put forth is already riddled with horrendous cuts to public services - AND to avoid even deeper cuts it relies on some dreamy chunk of Federal assistance that has absolutely no chance of materializing.

I mean, whoever is putting this stuff forward simply must be completely divorced from reality.

Or maybe it was satire since they link is not working for me.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

28. the whole country is broke but that doesn't stop war funding and nation building in other countries

so people's health is important

[eagertolearn]

31. They may be broke but they are already taking care of people

who don't have insurance. I know because my brother cost the state probably close to a million (or even more) for all his times in the hospital because of his alcoholism. If everyone pays in something it has to help because more and more are paying nothing and are sicker because they are not getting the prevention and health care that they need (costing the state even more and as our economy fails this will continue getting worst and is probably a big cause of our failing economy!). I think state by state is the way to go. I hope Oregon is next! If we get Gov. Kitzhaber back that will happen because he has been working on this idea for years.

[fascisthunter]

32. um... it would save the state money in the long run

[Newsjock]

20. New link here

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/21/AR2010012104845.html

The Bee deleted their copy of the story overnight.

[change_notfinetuning]

21. This is the only kind of incremental HCR that makes sense - state by state. It

would be great if any state could start the ball rolling.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

26. yes

[No Elephants]

22. Best of luck on getting this done, California. But, you have to stop putting a lid on taxes, ffs.

News flash: The best things in life may be free, but everything else costs money. Get used to it.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. The tax is your old premium essentially.

[tsuki]

25. Yes, it could be done.

I was paying 863.00 each employee health care off the job, and 405.00 health care on the job, 50.00 health care when they drove the company vehicles, plus 1.45% future health care. Add that up. That's 1318.00 per month, per employee.

As a small biz person, I would have jumped at single-payer.

[hunter]

30. Things are so messed up in California doctors are quitting their insurance contracts.

Something is going to break when people who think they have insurance can't find a doctor who will accept it.

Down this road we will eventually have either single payer as befitting a civilized nation, or we will have for-profit factory clinics at places like Wal-Mart.

The whole point of health care "reform" as it is in Congress is to bale out the insurance companies and pharmaceutical industry, just as the big banks were rescued. Those industries are such a huge part of our economy that Wall Street couldn't take the hit of their failing. Currently health care "reform" has little to do with the actual health of the people, and everything to do with the health of Wall Street.

[icee]

36. I live in California. Doctors are fleeing their practices. The

State is bankrupt.

[totodeinhere]

41. Only a national solution will bring health care to all Americans anytime soon.

Can anyone even imagine states such as Idaho or Mississippi ever starting a single payer system on their own?

[wryter2000]

43. Words of doom: "payroll tax"

We need a 66% majority to raise taxes, thanks to Prop 13. This will never pass.

I hope another state can do it. The US could get single payer health care the same way Canada did -- one province/state at a time.

[thesquanderer]

46. Kucinich's amendment

Wasn't Kucinich trying to get an amendment passed that would permit states to create their own single payer systems, and he failed? I'm confused. If state can already do this, why was he fighting for the amendment? Maybe the reform bill was somehow going to prohibit it, even though they can do it now? If that's the case, then we may indeed be better off if the reform bill fails!

[earcandle]

47. Good Luck on that! Try this song on infrastructure!

Cat Box

[flamingdem]

49. WOW, fingers crossed nt

[whosinpower]

50. I live in Saskatchewan

The province that got it all started up here in Canada.
When medicare got implemented here, at the beginning, it had its fair share of bumps in the road. Not everyone embraced the concept. Doctors revolted, and went on strike, and threatened to leave. It was ugly.

Saying the state will pay for your healthcare is only one side of the equation. The other side is controlling costs by establishing a ceiling of how much will be paid out for whatever procedure. I have not heard one single voice talking about this importante element. But if you trully want to establish a long term sustainable health care system - this MUST be in the equation. That is the one key point that drives capitalists crazy - because then government determines the cost - not the free market.

[jwirr]

56. You are correct. Our Medicare and Medicaid programs already have

this built in. However, that is the reason why dentists in many states will not take these government programs. I have a dentist who generously takes just so many MA patients a year.

[YewNork]

60. Canada encourages doctors to accept the same rate from all patients

Each year, in Canada, the provincial medical associations (representing the physicians) and the provincial health plans meet to set the reimbursement rates
for medical procedures for the upcoming year.

In order to prevent physicians from limiting the number of patients that they will see, they physicians have to agree that in order to be a provider under
the province's health insurance plan, the physicians cannot charge a higher price to any patient - regardless of whether that patient is covered by the
plan or not.

In other words, if that physician wants to "opt -out" of using the reimbursement rates set by the province, then he can't bill the provincial plan for any
patient. Since everyone has provincial insurance, few physicians are willing to cut off all those patients.

[wryter2000]

57. Thanks for your insight

I must admit this is something I hadn't thought of. :hi:

[YewNork]

59. You're right - but removing the free market pricing is a show stopper for many people

[truedelphi]

63. If you google "truedelphi" and

Some terms like "cost containment" you will follow my arguments about what you are explaining.

When Obama first said that we needed to talk about "Cost containment," I thought "Oh goodie. We will fully examine how inflated the costs are - and roll them back."

But Obama carefully saw to it that "Cost containment" never meant more than examining how much people would use the various services.

Some other DU'ers have had excellent examinations of how inflated the prices of our pharmaceutical products are - in some cases 82,000 above the cost of manufacturing!

[Socal31]

51. No.

No no no no no.

Right idea, wrong time to go about it.

[Isay2urbllsht]

52. Grover Norquist

This greedy pig is the one that our republican state senators have signed an oath to, pledging not to vote for any tax increase. This is how they have been able to as they say "starve the beast" and get the social programs they despise wiped out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Norquist#Views_on_government

I cant understand why people vote for republicans even after they see what their policies have done to cause all of these problems.Republican politicians serve the corporate interests not the republican voters, (other than the anti abortionists and racists) and now that corporations can spend unlimited amounts on political campaigns were about to find out what its like to live under an elitist owned/fascist government.

[jwirr]

54. Maybe you do need to be down before you can straighten this mess

out. Go California - single payer health care system and legalize maryjane.