Poll: Frustration with D.C. fueled GOP in Mass.

[SpankMe]

Source: msnbc.com

"Dissatisfaction with the direction of the country, antipathy toward federal government activism and opposition to the Democrats' health-care proposals drove the upset election of Republican Senator-elect Scott Brown of Massachusetts, according to a new post-election survey of Massachusetts voters."

"The poll...underscores how significantly voter anger has turned against Democrats in Washington and how dramatically the political landscape has shifted during President Obama's first year in office."

"Sixty-three percent of Massachusetts special-election voters say the country is seriously off track,...In November 2008, Obama scored a decisive win among the more than eight in 10 Massachusetts voters seeing the country as off course.

"When Obama was elected, 63 percent of Massachusetts voters said government should do more to solve problems, according to exit polling then. In the new poll, that number slipped to 50 percent,..."

"...Republican policies prove even less popular, with 58 percent of Massachusetts voters saying they are dissatisfied or angry about what the Republicans in Congress are offering. ..."

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35019673/ns/politics-washington_post/

---

This is a crazy story. Two-thirds of the special election voters said the country is "seriously off track", leading to the Republican Senator's victory. Yet, in November 2008, they voted in droves for Obama because 80% of them said the country was "off course". (And, it's been only a year.)

When Obama was elected, 63% of Massachusetts voters said the government should do more to help people. Now, it's less than half.

The universal health care in Mass is hugely popular, yet they strongly oppose the health care expansion currently being debated in congress.

Obama remains "highly popular" in Mass, and yet they elected a Republican to fill the iconic Ted Kennedy seat.

They "threw the bums out" in 2008. But, because things didn't change overnight they're throwing out the new bums and going back to the old bums - and yet the poll says Republican policies are even less popular than Democrats'!! What-The-Fuck!!???

I think I've discovered where America's problems are coming from, and it isn't Republicans or Democrats. It's the fucking voters!!!!! Americans are the flakiest, most impatient, selfish, bi-polar, whiny, inconsistent, indignant voters in the world!! It's like the voters in Nigeria are more consistent!

Can someone smarter than me please explain what the hell is going on?

[msongs]

1. more of the same is NOT change you can believe in. Really nt

[Larkspur]

2. Obama has dragged his heels on real reform and has sided with Wall Street over Main Street

Voters were pissed and rightly so at the Dems who dragged their heels. Coakley reminded them of the Dems in Washington who put Wall Street before Main Street.

The Mass election is a warning shot at Obama and the Dem leaders in Congress to start siding with Main Street over Wall Street and big corporations.

[Imajika]

3. People aren't always rational...

Republicans are fired up because the opposition is in power. Conservatives are screaming the loudest right now, so some of their complaints, however ridiculous they may be, kinda take hold in people's minds. Additionally, people are impatient, the stimulus hasn't worked fast enough so many see it as a failure.

I wouldn't look for any logic here. Bottom line, the economy sucks, it isn't really getting much better at the moment, and Democrats are going to do poorly at the ballot box as long as these conditions remain and they are the party perceived to be in charge.

What we need to do is move forward with our agenda and not worry much about the polls. Get our policies enacted and let the chips fall where they may. The whole point of winning elections is to actually get stuff done, not sit around and play CYA in order to remain in power and get nothing accomplished.

[bbgrunt]

22. btw, conservatives ALWAYS scream the loudest.

[Jawja]

39. People are impatient,

or just plain stupid??

[BeFree]

4. What's going on?

As you related the numbers don't make sense.

Here they are:

2008:
1,104,284 McCain
1,891,083 Obama
___________
786,799 DiFF


2010:
1,168,107 Brown + 64,000 more than McCain
1,058,682 Coakley - 830,000 less than Obama
_________

109,425 vote difference

Brown got 64,000 more votes than McCain in the off year
and Coakley a decrease of almost 40%.

Now, that's some shift. The numbers seem incredible.

[scentopine]

12. People voted for change and obama has pissed them off. -nt

[alp227]

29. I suppose that voter turnout was lower in an off-year...especially among progressives

Sadly, it reflects badly on them to just stay home and not exercise their First Amendment gift. :-(

[last1standing]

5. Do you really want it explained?

If you do, then you need to understand that its not what Obama hasn't been able to accomplish in a year, it's about what he has.

Bank bailouts and banker bonuses while individuals suffer.

Attempting to Mandate insurance with co-pays too high for the poor to pay leading to forced payments to insurance companies with no real coverage.

Expanded abuses of the Constitution in the form of wiretapping and indefinite detention.

A 'stimulus' package that included 40% tax cuts and far too little job growth or infrastructure creation.

Removing protections for various wildlife such as polar bears and gray wolves, species very much in danger of extinction.

The list of what he's accomplished is large, in fact he's gotten 95% of what he's asked congress for this year according to one report. So perhaps instead of insulting people without reason you should think on what this so-called Democratic president has done to deserve the frustration and anger so many of us feel after "only a year".

[SpankMe]

14. Looks like you're smarter than me. nt

[SpankMe]

19. I didn't insult people without reason.

I have a reason: They replaced an iconic progressive American with a member of the knuckle dragger party. That's quite a step down.

As pissed as I am over Obama's Republican-like behaviors (some of which you list), I'd still take an uninspired Democrat over a Republican at this stage. If for no other reason than the numbers game in the Senate.

My point is - even with your list of "accomplishments" that has alienated the liberal base - this "shift in the political landscape", as the article puts it, is just so huge and happened so quickly I can't help but see the electorate as fickle and impatient.

[Zoeisright]

27. I agree.

Electing repukes is only going to make things worse. If this actually DOES force the Democrats to change and grow a pair, it's a good thing.

The electorate is fickle and impatient - you're absolutely right. Voting for a repuke is the wrong thing to do. Sometimes I think we should all just wash our hands of the whole thing and LET the repukes take over. Then people would really see things fall apart. And we wouldn't be taking the blame for it.

[mwb970]

36. We tried that.

We LET the SCOTUS republicans appoint bush president in 2000. We LET him & the Dick do whatever they wanted. We LET the republicans destroy our government by politicizing every agency. Things really fell apart, and the people saw it: we elected Obama.

One year later, everything isn't sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows, and we are taking the blame for everything. The voters apparently want to re-instate the Old Boss, and you say, well LET them. Then they'll see!

:shrug:

[zalinda]

33. Brown ran as a populist

Party only matters to those who love their party. If a dem isn't doing the job, then you try the other guy.

zalinda

[Iowa]

21. Yep... And don't forget these:

--Aiding and abetting torture by protecting torturers from prosecution
--War mongering
--Ben Bernake
--Tim Geithner
--Turning the Dept of Ag (and our food supply) over to Monsanto
--Governing via "bipartisanship" (abdicating the peoples' power to the opposition)

And these are just a few off the top of my head that weren't already on your list. Hardly a day goes by without some malfeasance, capitulation, or outright hostile act. I'm sure many of us approach any headline containing the word "Obama" with the expectation of yet another outrage. We're used to that sort of thing; it's been going on for nine years now.

On the things that matter most, Obama has opposed the people, undermined civil liberties, and enriched corporations (running up the deficit to staggering heights to do so). And he has done all of this in only one year. Yet the OP has the audacity to whine about the voters' "impatience"... it's akin to insisting upon "patience" as a burglar ransacks your house. Fuck that.

[SpankMe]

28. I don't entirely disagree...

But, when my patience runs out because a Democrat isn't living up to progressive standards, my response isn't to vote for a Republican in protest or to engage in certain "non-voting" behaviors that will allow a Republican to get elected! Things go from bad to worse that way.

And, I'd add to your list this administration's refusal to sign on to the land-mine ban treaty. This was particularly irksome to me.

[seattle_blue]

6. Not buying it

I think this "frustration" thing is just a trial balloon they're tossing up for the 2012 "election."

[No Elephants]

9. So, you know better than the Massachusetts voters polled and Massachusetts DUers? Cool.

[seattle_blue]

30. Thanx

Thank you for showing me the error of my ways. I will be sure to vote for your candidate Sarah Palin. What would we do without the protectors of democracy like ALL ELEPHANTS? I bid you good day sir. :spank:

[Chemical Bill]

50. +1

Diebold machines are used in Massachusetts.

Bill

[Stevepol]

7. This is a mis-reading of the meaning of the election

Boldprogressive.org just did a survey in conjunction with somebody else and a spokesman was just on the Ed Show to explain.

They polled the voters in Mass that had voted for Obama but had voted for Brown this time. They found that 82% of them favored the public option. 57% of them said that the Obama admin should do more to deal with the country's woes, not less.

That doesn't sound like the profile in the article you've got.

Sounds like the folks in Mass are pissed that the Dems have not been true to their promises to ACT on health care with a public option and to press for change in the financial markets and in many other areas of public life.

[SpankMe]

8. I think you're right, and...

...that's part of my point. The Dems haven't fulfilled a whole lot of promises - yet. But, it's been only a year (since Obama got elected). I agree they could have done more, but the electorate started feeding the Republicans power starting with the Newt Gingrich revolution and let the Republicans rule for almost a decade before they got fed up and went with Democratic leadership starting in '06.

Democrats have been largely in power for only 2 years, and we haven't done 1/100th the damage the Republicans did. So, I characterize this as a flaky and impatient electorate to tire of us so quickly. Sure they're pissed. But what kind of "pissed" is it that throws out merely ineffective Democrats after such a short time when they were willing to tolerate destructive Republicans for so long?

[No Elephants]

10. Health care was THE issue for about 50% of those who voted for Brown.

Of those, maybe 20 to 25% favored a public option. Of those who had voted for Obama in 2008, a very large portion wanted a public option. This was per Dr. Dean. See also http://www.pollster.com/blogs/.

However, public option is not the only issue, especially for those who stayed home.

[AlphaCentauri]

16. wonder how mass. voters could press for change electing do nothing folks

It's hard for me to understand that logic unless it's something called auto sabotage.

[scipan]

42. Here is that poll and the MSM is ignoring it

Do you favor or oppose the health care reform proposal recently passed by the U.S. Senate?
Obama/Brown Voters
FAVOR OPPOSE NOT SURE
ALL 32% 48% 20%
MEN 29% 52% 19%
WOMEN 35% 44% 21%
DEM 42% 46% 12%
REP 11% 68% 21%
IND 33% 47% 20%

If oppose, do you think it goes too far or doesn’t go far enough?
Obama/Brown Voters
NOT ENOUGH TOO FAR NOT SURE
ALL 36% 23% 41%
MEN 34% 26% 40%
WOMEN 38% 20% 42%
DEM 49% 18% 33%
REP 11% 61% 28%
IND 38% 20% 42%

Obama/Non-Voters
NOT ENOUGH TO FAR NOT SURE
ALL 53% 8% 39%
MEN 51% 11% 38%
WOMEN 55% 5% 40%
DEM 57% 3% 40%
REP 7% 56% 37%
IND 44% 27% 29%

http://pol.moveon.org/brownpoll/

[defendandprotect]

11. kick

[No Elephants]

13. The poll says people were dissatisfied with

the direction in which the country is going. It does not say voters are upset bc Obama did not do everything he promised within a year. A year is enough to discern a direction and certain patterns.

"I think I've discovered where America's problems are coming from, and it isn't Republicans or Democrats. It's the fucking voters!!!!! "

If that's how you feel, you must think democracy is a very bad form of government. Have you considered moving to Saudi Arabia?

[SpankMe]

15. I don't agree that my describing

the electorate as impulsive and impatient is the same as saying democracy is a very bad form of government.

Democracy needs a steady hand. America is huge and complex and it'll take a long time at the tiller before this ship sails right. It'll take half a generation to clean up the mess the Republican's made in 8 years of iron-fisted rule.

My comment on "it's the fucking voters" (itself an impulsive statement) was merely my shortcut way of saying that it seems illogical to so quickly run back to the party that just finished screwing us just because the new party hasn't fixed everything already. People need to stick it out with the Dems a lot longer and lobby them relentlessly instead of just throwing them out after such short periods of time. Democracy takes work. And time.

I really feel all of this "wrong direction" we're headed is not even half Obama's fault. Rather, we're still moving in the wrong direction under the momentum of the prior administration.

You are right that a year is enough to discern trends. And, accordingly, I don't agree with a lot that Obama's doing. I feel he's only about 20% different than Bush so far. He's not going far enough fast enough.

But, bringing back the Neanderthals just will not improve matters.

[No Elephants]

17. I agree that bringing back Neanderthals will not improve matters, but what will?

Since Reagan, if not earlier, the Democrats have been legislating and acting more and more like Republicans, no matter what kind of game they talk when campaigning, especially in the primaries.

We call, we write, we email, we show up at their town hall style appearances, etc. They still act more and more like Republicans. We still keep donating and re-electing them.


Continuing to do the same thing, but expecting a different result is one definition of insanity.

Now, I am not saying all Massachusetts Democrats who either voted for Brown or stayed home reasoned that way, but I am sure they were disappointed and dispirited. So, was that their fault, or the fault of the Democrats who do not do what they promised to do while they were soliciting our donations and our votes?

If you want to blame the voters, go ahead. I still maintain that would mean democracy may not be for you.

Neither you nor anyone else is about to change all the voters. We have a hard enough time changing the politicians--and, by our votes, we're giving them their jobs and, by our taxes, we're paying their salaries.Yet, we don't seem to have much influence over them since the lobbyists took over D.C.

So, how would you suggest changing all the voters? And, if you don't like how voters behave, but can't change how they behave, how is democracy your cup of tea? Think about it.

[AlphaCentauri]

20. In other words the voters deserve what they got n/t

[SpankMe]

24. I've thought about it.

The fact that I don't know for sure what will improve matters has no impact on my opinion of one thing I know that won't improve matters. I just put it out there for discussion, that's all. I don't know exactly what will work.

My original message was a more or less glibly stated opinion that voters with some patience and discipline makes for better democracy than voters who change their minds rapidly, frequently and so drastically. It's all democracy in one form or another, and it is my cup of tea. I'm just stating a preference for the more measured approach.

You're taking this quick and generalized thought of mine and are parsing out and analyzing every word and suggesting I'm not a fan of democracy and that I move to Saudi Arabia? Ad hominem reasoning is a property of the conservative mind.

[JDPriestly]

25. What you are saying is that people feel lost and confused.

We all want change. Obama talks about change but does not seem to have a clear plan, hasn't clearly defined the change he wants to bring and is supposedly bringing and doesn't even seem to be considering changes that people want and need.

[AlphaCentauri]

18. to my knowledge democracy shouldn't be controlled by corporations

if the voters are misled to think they are electing their best choice by electing the same group who created the problems that is a misconception of a full democracy, especially when 2 parties have controlled the government for 200 years.

[tomhayes]

23. They don't like Obama not being progressive

So they vote for Republicans??

They are either IDIOTS - or- voting this way for some unfathomable reason - it can't be because Obama isn't progressive enough.

Or maybe the Republicans were right all along and people just voted for Obama because they were naive and didn't understand how the system works. becuase what happened in Mass certainly won't help if people want more progressive legislation.

[HughBeaumont]

26. Obama isn't a terrible president. The U.S. is a terrible nation.

It's a corptocracy at its most corpulent, plain and simple. The Judicial Branch is a Kangaroo Court. Congress are aiding and abetting the upward transfer of wealth and have been for 28 years. The president is a mere figurehead title. The people who really run this country are sabotaging it's progress until they get their Republican Bible Spice sock-puppet in there to promise the morons that their taxes will be lowered while they continue the looting unabated. Is the phrase "if voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal" really that far fetched?

The government has to do more to help people, but when you had a shitbag know-nothing, do-nothing president that doubled the National Debt by filling the coffers of the rich and pissing away trillions in deserts, where do you get the money to PAY for it? We're doing absolutely nothing to fix our economic system, and the very criminals whose system NEEDS the most fixing are more or less threatening to further destroy the progress of this nation if they don't get their way.

[blue_green]

32. Obama isn't a terrible president. The U.S. is in terrible trouble.

I agree with HughBeaumont's post. This country's troubles are more about class than race or political party. Corptocracy runs and rules this country and the masses haven't figured that out yet. Getting close though . . .

[paulsby]

34. america hating at its du finest

"the U.S. is a terrible nation"

lol

[HughBeaumont]

40. No. This nation is in shambles thanks to unbridled corporatism. We have to do better.

That starts with the private sector, the government and the captains of industry. Right now, I just see them looking out for each other. Your average person has no capability of generating his or her own income. We do not all have the capability of being owners. Corporations already have us at a massive cost disadvantage in that area. Most of us, sorry to say, have to rely on one of those above three entities to earn income.

When industries have been firing more workers than they've been hiring in 10 years, it doesn't say much about how we've been handling ourselves.

[Paladin]

43. I Don't See You Refuting Any Of HughBeaumont's Points.

I happen to think he's spot on in his comments. But then, I'm a for-real Democrat......

[paulsby]

46. ah, the purity test

i guess since i think america is a great country, i'm a fake democrat (tm)

if loving my country makes me a fake democrat, then fake democrat i am

[hack89]

48. I stand with you. nt

[Paladin]

49. Pretty Weak Response........ (n/t)

[grahamhgreen]

31. What's going on? MA voters knew the Senate bill was a scam, 'CAUSE THAT'S THE PLAN THEY ALREADY HAVE

[Hubert Flottz]

35. HOW...will voting for more party of NO obstructionist corporate

pimps, improve anything in Washington?

[CTLawGuy]

38. it won't

this is the dubious explanation the complainers are putting out because they think it vindicates them somehow.

Vote for a conservative to show Obama that we want him to be liberal...
Vote for someone that allows the Rs to effectively shut down government, because we want Obama to actually get something done...
Vote for someone, who effectively forces Obama to pick off at least one Republican to pass a bill, because we don't want him to be bipartisan...

Does any of that make sense?

[The Wizard]

37. It's about ineffective leadership(possibly deliberate)

The Senate turned health care reform into a convoluted cluster fuck by allowing right wing Democrats like Nelson, Landrieu, and Joe(Disguised R. Conn) "The Weasel" Lieberman to dictate terms to the majority.
They should have been taken aside and told every dime of federal spending in their states will come to a halt if they didn't get on board with real reform that benefited the American people, not just Nebraska, Louisiana and Aetna Insurance.
The Massachusetts rebuke was because Democratic leadership refused to do the people's bidding. If it was done deliberately, Democrats deserve a good kick in the gonads

[Gman2]

41. There are a buncha kettles boiling, chill the fuck out. It's almost soup.

[boppers]

44. Wild card to mess up the status quo.

A filibuster-proof majority of "democratic" congress critters (yes, I know, but hear me out) kept the status quo, with endless deal-making, negotiations, discussions, self-important press conferences, pork, etc.

My take:
What the american public are pissed off about isn't Democrats, or republicans, but the whole freaking system's inability to do *anything* without it turning into something that looks like it was written by a bunch of committees, marked up by shysters, and then negotiated into a bizarre miasma that nobody could fully comprehend, or view as fair.

Of course, that problem has nothing to do with any party, but rather, it's about our legislative system in general.

[silenttigersong]

45. The Republicants

think this message is only for Dem's :rofl:

[Blandocyte]

47. Dumbasses are rousing the rabble. n/t