94-yr-old former Nazi on trial

[dArKeR]

La Spezia, Italy - A trial involving Johannes Karl Schiffmann, a 94-year-old former Nazi officer accused of executing Italian civilians in 1944, opened in front of a military tribunal in the city of La Spezia on Monday.

Schiffmann, a former lieutenant under Adolf Hitler, is believed to be living in an old peoples' home in Germany and did not attend the hearing.

Along with three other officers, now deceased, he is accused of rounding up, torturing and shooting 11 Italian civilians in the region of Emilia Romagna, a massacre that has come to be know as the "carnage of San Cesario".

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1498419,00.html

Think we'll get aWol on trial before he's 94?

[CO Liberal]

1. Bob Dole??

:-)

[dArKeR]

2. Reagan, silly!

[Whoa_Nelly]

3. Just goes to show

it's never too late to serve up a dish of justice O8)

[seventhson]

4. Accessories after the Fact

Fact is that the Bushes profitted from the deaths of Americans and Jews and Germans and Poles and gays and Roma and millions of people because they bankrolled the Nazi military.

They got their payoout after the war and are still benefitting from those Nazxi relationships today.

If you were in on a crime spree by getting the receipts of the crime in which people were murdered - then you could be charged as an accessory after the fact.

Okay, Dubya was born AFTER the Nazi crimes were committed - but his father was not. In any event they still profited from these crimes against humanity and continue to cover them up.

[diamond14]

6. bush* inherited $millions in Holocaust blood money....(link)

a short 6 page summary of the business dealings of bush* grandpa, prescott, and bush* pappy....summarized with the President of the Florida Jewish Holocaust Museum....


as you read this history....compare it to bush* current actions in the Middle East....bush* is just following along in his grandpa's footsteps, war-profiteering, hypocrisy, politics to cover the crimes....
http://www.clamormagazine.org/bush.pdf

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AlienGirl]

52. Bush money helped fund the Holocaust

And Bush money came directly from slave labor in the concentration camps.

The tie between the Bush family and the Nazis is well-documented.

Tucker

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[everythingsxen]

54. delete

del

[AlienGirl]

55. Start here

http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=NN_Bush_Nazi_2

Then Google +Bush +Nazi.

Tucker

[ScottInFlorida]

58. Thanks AlienGirl

Thank you, I will read that per your recommendation.

By the way, I took your suggestion, (+Bush +Nazi), and went one step further, (+Kennedy +Nazi), and came up with quite the list of articles.

S>

[54anickel]

56. Umm, did you check the link in post 6?

Welcome to DU ScottInFlorida :hi:

[bobthedrummer]

59. HERE YOU GO, SCOTT

http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/bushies.htm

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/ROG309A.html

[ScottInFlorida]

61. Now those are links!

I think I have drunk too much green beer to read these tonight, but I promise I will tomorrow morning!

Take care,

S>

P.S. ---> And thank goodness for spell check.

[saigon68]

83. Adios

[everythingsxen]

5. Uh huh...

:eyes:

I mean I guess I am glad to see "justice" served, however he, like most Nazi's really was just following orders. However, he is 94. What, are they going to execute him? I think Mother Nature is going to take care of that soon enough.

Truthfully, he is most likely worse off than any other Nazi who has been tried. He has had to live with what he did. In addition to hiding all these years.

Meh, but they will try and execute him anyway.. blah.

[AlienGirl]

7. Following orders is no defense

There's plenty of legal precedent that "following orders" isn't sufficent defense. And the statute of limitations on murder never runs out...(well, not till the death of the perpetrator, anyway).

Tucker

[everythingsxen]

16. Yes but..

Where does one draw the line?

You are all for rehabilitation of criminals aren't you?

Your average Nazi had little to no choice at all. Between the brainwashing and the possibility of being executed (or having their families executed) for failure to obey...

When is "I was only following orders" acceptable?

Should someone who does something bad be held responsible if their family is being held hostage? In many cases of Nazi's, this was just the case.

Just something to keep in mind. Not every Nazi was a war-criminal by choice.

[AlienGirl]

20. Of course I'm for rehabilitation

But the "following orders" defense is never legally acceptible--it wasn't for the Nazis, and it wasn't for Calley.

Whether a trial makes sense in this case or not is debatable--if he has Alzheimer's he may not be competent to stand trial anyway--but on principle, "following orders" doesn't wash. An individual still has the moral culpability, even if his superiors have told him to do something immoral.

Plenty of people have let themselves be killed, deliberately killed themselves, or found ways to get out of committing atrocities--rather than become a tool of a killing machine. Shouldn't their ethical courage be the accepted standard?

Tucker

[everythingsxen]

22. Ah..

So, you are ignoring the possibility that he had no choice. An interesting way to get around it.

So if they were holding someone I loved, loved more than anything else in the world, hostage and told me I had to commit war-crimes or they would die, I should be extremely logical and say "well, that person I love with all my heart is less important than doing the right thing!" and get them and myself executed. Maybe if it was my wife I would have the opportunity to watch my children be executed too. But thats OK because I would be doing the right thing and so watching their horrible deaths followed by own should be the choice I would make.

:eyes:

Doubtful.

Most officers developed a kind of split-minded state. On the one hand they loved their country, but knew that what they were doing was evil. On the other hand they became every evil horror story that was told about them. It was the only way for them to stay sane.

[cantwealljustgetalong]

10. how touching to see the fate of a fucking old nazi lieutenant...

pulling on the heart strings...

since "he has had to live with what he did" until the ripe old age of 94, I see how much it really stressed him out...

justice served indeed...blah is right...

[AlienGirl]

11. I am still anti-death-penalty

Even for these cases.

Tucker

[everythingsxen]

13. I'm sorry..

I was unaware we had a psychic in the audience.

I'm glad you know for certain that the guilt of the things he was *ordered* to do hasn't gnawed at him everyday.

You are aware that most SS officers were so totally indoctrinated by the Nazi propaganda machine that they never saw what they did as wrong (when they did it) aren't you?

You are also aware then that even if he had suddenly had the ability to break free of that conditioning, he would have been shot (or worse) for disobeying orders.

Like you said though, you seem to know him far better than I. He must have been one of those extra-evil Nazis who really enjoyed his work.

Oh, did you also happen to catch the last line of the article? That he suffers from Alzheimer's?

Man he sure is a menace to society now!! Execute him!!

Thanks for showing me the light.. I always thought I was a bloodthirsty person for wanting to see people executed.. but you are happy to see a 94 y/o with Alzheimer's get tried (and executer for justice to be served right?).

You are a real credit to humanity.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[everythingsxen]

24. Wow!

Great words!

It amazing.. I have been flamed for overzealous remarks I have made, especially in regard to child molesters and rapists, murderers too..

I hear that they are "sick" or that it's "not their fault, they were X as a child.."

Yet when it's a 94 year old Nazi with Alzheimer's, you are ready for torture at the drop of a hat and no-one says a word.

Have you learned nothing from history?

You would do unto them as they have done unto others.

Some day then, that ideology might return (indeed it has returned, in the form of * and company) and they will do the same and the cycle continues forever.

The man is 94... what is your idea of justice?

(BTW, they are going to execute him, I can almost guarantee it unless there is some public outcry, which I highly doubt there will be)

[cantwealljustgetalong]

27. first...

he should stand trial for his crimes...

then justice should be administered based on the verdict and the extenuating circumstances like his age and health...

[SOS]

75. Hopefully the Italian prosecutors

will do a more competent job than in this case:

"John Demjanjuk, a retired auto worker in Cleveland, Ohio, was accused of being the legendary "Ivan the Terrible" in the Treblinka concentration camp. He was convicted of war crimes, in 1986. In 1993, the 6th US Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that Demjanjuk was a victim of prosecutorial misconduct (as federal prosecutors had deliberately withheld evidence) and his sentence was overturned. In the meantime, Demjanjuk had been stripped of his citizenship and been extradited to Israel; from which he returned following an acquittal decision by the Supreme Court of Israel on July 29, 1993."

[GabysPoppy]

26. Did you really say this?

"You are aware that most SS officers were so totally indoctrinated by the Nazi propaganda machine that they never saw what they did as wrong (when they did it) aren't you?"

Maybe you want to also tell us that 6,000,000 was also an exaggeration.

[everythingsxen]

31. No, it wasn't an exaggeration..

if anything the number might be a bit low. It's hard to say an exact number when you count groups like the Einsatzgruppen who didn't keep as detailed records as the camps.

Have I anywhere said that what was done was not the most heinous of crimes? No I have not.

Have I made a *single* remark that could even be loosely interpreted to mean that I think the Holocaust was an exaggeration? No I have not.

So I guess they weren't indoctrinated by the Nazi propaganda machine? Hrrm. Interesting, I could have sworn they were. I guess Germans are all just born evil then is that it? That's the only way it could happen after-all. :shrug:

[ecstatic]

64. I don't like it, but it's true

I love reality shows, and it always amazes me how on the SCI-FI show "Scare Tactics," the scared victims always do exactly what they're told to do, even if they feel their own life is in jeopardy. Fear does that to people. I have no doubts that fear could turn many people in this country into the same type of monsters.

[jmm]

12. If he did commit those crimes

then I doubt he has a conscious and is bothered by living with what he did.

[everythingsxen]

14. No, you are wrong..

then I doubt he has a conscious and is bothered by living with what he did.

He has a conscious, or at least consciousness. The word you were looking for though, was conscience, and I guess you are also a psychic.

Look, these men were brainwashed, conditioned and generally mind-fucked. It's not like they were all agents of pure evil as depicted in the movies and TV. They were people, just like you, just like me. Then the propaganda got them and... *poof*

[jmm]

18. What is your obsession with psychics?

I'm not the only person in this thread you called one. I never claimed to know his thoughts or intentions I only shared my doubts.

He has a conscious, or at least consciousness. The word you were looking for though, was conscience,

Thanks so much for pointing that out. Petty grammer mistakes I make on discussion boards when I'm typing while at home with a fever really matter to me.

[everythingsxen]

25. Sorry jmm,

didn't know you had a fever, hope you feel better soon.

This whole thread has my neck chaffing under my collar.

If this thread were about a child molester and I were calling for his blood, I would be flamed, severely.

There is a double-standard it seems for Nazi's. If one commits any number of horrifying crimes, all is forgiven in the name of rehabilitation. If they were a Nazi... well the only good Nazi is a dead nazi I guess....

It just annoys me.

Everyone is getting away from the focus, which id he is 94 and has Alzheimer's.

If he were... lets say.. a 60s radical who blew up a facility and killed some people, but he was doing it for "a good cause", then he hid and was finally caught, only to be found that he was in his 90s and had Alzheimer's, would you and everyone else in this thread still be so happy he was facing a trial (and most likely, execution) ?

[AlienGirl]

32. I bet it does...

You said: "This whole thread has my neck chaffing under my collar.

If this thread were about a child molester and I were calling for his blood, I would be flamed, severely.

There is a double-standard it seems for Nazi's. If one commits any number of horrifying crimes, all is forgiven in the name of rehabilitation. If they were a Nazi... well the only good Nazi is a dead nazi I guess...."

Yes. The only good Nazi *is* a dead Nazi.

Tucker

[bhunt70]

57. I agree, people just like everyday people who got caught up in the wrong

mindset and commited one of the most heinous attrocities we know of.

I don't absolve them, but mass "hysteria" or mob mentality makes people do fucked up things. People are more apt to act like their neighbor/bretheren etc than to act against them.

I know people will take this the wrong way but it's basic psychology. Were their incredibly horrible people in germany in 1939, sure there were. Can I sit back and judge the Nazis and their sympathizers, yes I think I can. I would find it irresponsible though to think that each and every one of them were the most evil people around. This is one case where I feel the sum of the parts made up the whole.

Do I think this guy should have a trial, yes, but like someone else said the penalty should take into many circumstances including his health and age. If we normally think of justice as being seperate from revenge, then I don't see how it would help executing him. He's not going to rehabilitate at 94 if he hasn't already.

[Chelzek]

23. "they will try and execute him anyway"

Really? When did the death penalty return to europe? I must have missed the BBC announcement.

[everythingsxen]

28. What will they do then?

Sentence him to prison?

Thats a death sentence.

House arrest? A death sentence.

[AlienGirl]

30. House arrest is not a death sentence

He's 94. I doubt he gets out of his house much anyway. :shrug:

Tucker

[everythingsxen]

33. We will see...

But what is the point exactly?

If he has alzheimers... will he even notice?

Will he care?

Will it really matter?

[No Passaran]

68. somewhat agree

I don't think death penalty will do in this case. He's old and will die of natural causes soon.

I haven't seen one trial in Den Haag (for war crimes in Bosnia) end in death penalty being handed out. We're talking about concentration camp wardens responsible for deaths of thousands of Bosnian civilians (including rape), being sentenced to 9 years - 20 years. Milosevic won't even get more than 25 years and he was responsible for 250,000 deaths in Bosnia alone.

Maybe 11 Italian lives are worth more than 11,000 dead Bosnian children in their capital alone.

Who knew.

Give me a break.

[Bonhomme Richard]

8. It's a shame. If he were here he would......................

have the potential of getting a job in the administration.

[bobthedrummer]

9. And an 84 year old Nazi was charged in Germany today (BBC)

German prosecutors have charged a former Nazi commander with the murder of 164 Slovak civilians during the last months of World War II.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3519364.stm

[roguevalley]

15. The Nuremburg defense didn't hold up in Nuremburg. No pity for them

from me at all. 94 is more years than his victims got.

[everythingsxen]

17. So what do you want to see happen then RV?

Should this evil monster be dragged into the streets and executed?

Glorious!

A 94 year old Alzheimer's patient. Death to the monster!!

[cantwealljustgetalong]

21. talk about psychoics...

pardon my spelling, i know how picky you are about petty mistakes from your earlier post, but, he is being put on TRIAL, he is not being EXECUTED...chill dude, he might even make it to 100 if his "conscience" does not kill him first...

[everythingsxen]

29. I'm not that picky about spelling and grammar.. it just that..

he's an old man. He's an old man with Alzheimer's. Why does he need to be put on trial?

Is he even competent to stand trial? Doubtful.

[enki23]

36. they don't kill people in the EU

that includes italy. he won't be executed. he probably won't be incarcerated beyond what he already is. the trial is being conducted on principle. maybe it's, in part, to remind present and future war criminals that their crimes will never be forgotten.

[everythingsxen]

37. Maybe so..

still, it seems pointless.

He will not even know what is going on.

:shrug:

I think enough Nazi's have been tried in recent memory that this one will not add more wright to it.

[cantwealljustgetalong]

38. you were just told the point - PRINCIPLE...

he may not know what is going on, but his nazi apologist supporters will...

[everythingsxen]

45. I see..

So we need to send a message to those kinds of people eh?

Despite the fact that we are talking about charging, judging and sentencing a 94 y/o man (with Alzheimer's) its for his supporters benefit so they know that its "wrong".. k.

[roguevalley]

84. I don't believe in the death penalty. A jail cell is enough.

[Stockholm]

77. Opps...

He died the same day.

[9215]

34. I'll bet the bastard has great-great grandchildren that

he sat on his knee and told stories to. Why does this kind of human excrement get to live so long and seem to have all the good things in life?

Shit always seems to rise to the top in this world.

By the time he's executed he'll invite it as any old geezard would physician assisted suicide.

What a fucking farce. This world was meant for fascist domination. Every important indicator points in that direction. I just want to take few of the fucking bastards with me before I go out.

Not one fucking meaningful thing has been accomplished by this specie that was not perverted by this scum. It has all failed and these bastards have had their way and are now making the world unlivable. The fucking Pentagon is sounding the alarm about the environment. That is what it has come too. It looks like the shit will float in a literal cesspool. I just want to see the look on these fascists faces when they see what they have done to bring about their own destruction. I'd like to film that look and replay it many times.

[everythingsxen]

35. Here man...

*hands 9215 a chill pill*

Take this.

Why are you so upset? He is 94, he spent most of his life running and looking over his shoulder, terrified that Mossad would find him. Now he is an old man with Alzheimer's.

Mother Nature has him slated for execution soon enough.

[ScottInFlorida]

41. everythingsxen...

I don't have enough posts to send you a private message. I apologize in advance for making this message public.

I really enjoyed reading your responses and they have made me think a little bit differently about horrific crimes and how we, as a society, respond to them.

Personally, I'd like to thank you for your consistency in your responses as well as your clear and thought out viewpoints. They have made a difference for me.

Thank you again,

S>

[everythingsxen]

43. It's uh..cool..

I am all for justice being served though.

If it wasn't for him being 94 and having Alzheimer's, I would not really care. He is a murderer, I have not defended that. I just don't want fanfare and glory in "bringing a big bad Nazi" to justice to overshadow the fact that he, in all likelihood, has no memory of what he will be charged with and even if he does, is he even the same person now?

BTW.. I see by your name you are from Florida, what did you do to get sentenced there?

Florida is Hell y'know. :P

(Originally from Florida, but I got out for good behavior and time-served)

[ScottInFlorida]

47. Dang, 19 posts and I still can't private message...

everythingsxen,

My wife and I just moved to Sarasota from Maine exactly two months ago. We wanted a change, something different. (By the way, Maine is the only state the Ross Perot ever carried!)

I have my own business, computer and network services, and so far we are really enjoying it here. Sarasota has it's own ballet and opera companies, and everyone here seems to be very friendly.

And yes, I heard it gets hot here! As a runner, I'm still getting used to the heat. Today it was 82 and my daily run is far from what I'm used to. Five miles into it I fade, slow down and am generally in a mess.

Nice to meet you, everythingsxen!

S>

[AlienGirl]

46. I want to know, how has it made a difference?

What opinions have changed on account of this??

Tucker (still believe the only good Nazi is a dead Nazi)

[mobuto]

42. Ah, he spent most of his life running

Who really cares? There's a reason he spent his life running - he's a vicious mass murderer. The travesty is that he wasn't caught sixty years ago. He's had sixty years in which he hasn't had to account for his crimes. Well, that time's finally up. Let him spend his last days suffering.

[everythingsxen]

44. He killed 11 civilians..

a heinous crime to be sure.

Does that mean he should spend his last days suffering?

If he has Alzheimer's, is he really even being punished? Is he the same man?

[54anickel]

48. Is he the same man? With Alzheimer's, I doubt it. Depending on how

far he's gone. Terrible disease, after a while you don't even remember who you are much less anyone that walks into the room. Wonder if in the mid stages his mind was stuck in the time of his prime? Noticed that with my Grandma and a couple of patients at the home. If that's the case, he's relived that period of his life over and over again.

[ScottInFlorida]

49. I have my doubts...

Mobuto,

I have doubts as to how fair his trial can be. It's been an awful long time since these crimes were committed.

You're ready to hang the guy before he's been tried.

I got a chuckle when Arnie was running for Governor of California and there were some that thought just because his father was a member of Nazi party he had no business running for office.

Is it possible that the 94 year old "former" Nazi is innocent of these crimes?

I really don't think, with the time that has passed, that he can get a fair trial.

Regards,

S>

[AlienGirl]

50. I *highly* doubt he's innocent

The Nazis kept good enough records that his identity and actions are probably well-documented.

Tucker

[ScottInFlorida]

51. Records

I have heard that the Germans are excellent record keepers during the war. I concur with your statement.

I guess time and a fair trial will tell whether he is guilty or not guilty.

S>

[9215]

78. You're probably right. Thanks for the pill. nt

[54anickel]

39. Wow, I've read thru all of these responses and still shake my head

thinking WTF?

I cared for my Dad in his last couple of years fighting cancer. He grew up thru all of that crap, his home being Holland but very near the German border. He had relatives on both sides, some Nazi's others not - he didn't trust anyone. He hadn't shared these stories with anyone else in his life except one sister, my mother and finally me during his last 3 months of life.

Long story short, he left home at the age of 13 to work on the German farms. He became involved in the underground, transporting Jews, hiding from Nazis, etc. He escaped the Nazis 3 times, once putting a dear friend in danger for his own survival. He was "one of the good guys", but he couldn't forget or forgive himself for things he did to survive during those times or later as a sniper for the Dutch in Indonesia. The memories were still very vivid for him and it was hell as he relived it all in his morphine induced nightmares.

War is hell, you do what you need to survive. So yes, this guy has probably been in a living hell, and he may very well live many years more in his state of mind. I've done a lot of volunteer work with hospice and nursing homes and a funny thing I've noticed is that people have a tendency to linger on a long time until someone tells them it's OK to die or that they are forgiven for some past transgression.

Perhaps one should try picture themselves in his place before calling for his blood.

[UTUSN]

60. Neh, Better Late Than Never n/t

[SOS]

62. The Italians slaughtered two million Ethiopians

starting in 1936. Many were gassed to death with chemical weapons dropped from airplanes.
Will there be trials in Italy for the perpetrators?

[JVS]

63. Threre are at least 2 serious issues at play here

1) Is this man capable to stand trial?

2) Is it reasonable to expect someone to be able to mount a defense 60 years after a crime?

[bobthedrummer]

65. There is no defense for torturing and killing innocent civilians for the

Nazi bastard.
If he's breathing he is capable of answering for his crimes against humanity.

[JVS]

66. Legally he is entitled to present a defence

[bobthedrummer]

67. Of course.

And I'm entitled to an opinion regarding Nazis.
:hi:

[Aussie_Hillbilly]

69. Excellent!

Sends a message to war criminals everywhere!

Ariel Sharon? GWB? OBL? Are you listening? And your henchmen. Don't care if they were following orders.

[JVS]

73. The message comes through loud and clear: WIN!

[DuctapeFatwa]

70. Should the same standards apply to US and Israeli soldiers who kill

civilians?

[ikojo]

71. Somehow I doubt the same standard will be held for

US and Israeli soldiers who are committing war crimes as I type this. For one I think the US has made itself immune to any charges of war crimes for the wars it has engaged in.

No one has answered the question about the Italians killing many Ethiopians...should those soldiers stand trial?

[Nihil]

72. You bloodthirsty bunch!

I can't believe that this is DU?

There is a 94 year old man who has been COMMITTED TO TRIAL.

Ever heard of "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY" people????

Jesus Christ! Someone has been *accused* of being a person who
killed 11 people 60 years ago.

He didn't wander off the street and give himself up.
He didn't write to the newspaper and boast that he'd done it.

From the article posted, the three other Nazi officers are dead.
The defendent himself is 94 and suffers from Alzheimer's.
Any witnesses from the event are going to be in their 80s.

Someone has accused him of being the person who killed 11 people
during the Second World War and the TRIAL is now going to examine
the evidence presented in order to determine his innocence or guilt.

Or maybe you guys just think that the accusation is sufficient to
ship him to a country that still has the death sentence and snuff him?

And this from countries that have yet to prosecute a single person
of their own nationality for war-crimes in the intervening 60 years?

Fuck.

[bobthedrummer]

74. It is too bad he wasn't hung or shot after a speedy trial after WWII

Yes, there is much injustice and horror in our world.
Don't forget that his job, as a Nazi commander, was to torture and kill those that bravely resisted or those that were Jews.
I'm sure that as a Nazi he did his job with relish and gusto.
Tough shit that he's 94, let some justice be done-no matter how late.

[Nihil]

76. Yeah, screw "innocent until proven guilty", just shoot him ...

You needn't bother with any of that "positive ID" crap, just pick a guy
who "looks like a Nazi" and shoot him.

I'm sure you were there at the time ... no?

How about checking with the other officers? Oops, they're all dead.
How about checking with the other witnesses? Hmmm ... they are all
in their 80s and 90s, suffering from sixty years of nightmares and
hatred (not to mention the risk of senility on that side too) ...
being coached by those wise arbiters of justice in the Wiesenthal
Institute ... yep, sounds like a fair trial coming up ...

Don't fret about finding evidence, the fact that you've accused him is
all that you need to kill him.

> let some justice be done-no matter how late

The beauty with a death sentence is that you never have to say "sorry".

I seem to remember a bunch of people on this forum up in arms about
the execution of a convicted felon who had the mental age of a child.
Surely not the same people who have just pre-judged a man with senile
dementia and found him guilty from two thousand miles away?

(And before the usual suspects come charging in with diversions about
"defending murderers" and "anti-semite" accusations, I am not related
to this guy, have no support for his alleged actions or any of that
shit - I just don't like lynch mobs ok?)

Nihil

[mobuto]

79. Ah, all the sympathy in the world

for a nonogenarian Nazi murderer. Let him suffer.

[bleedingheart]

80. What scares me more and makes me more angry are the

young men and women who are falling into the Nazi and Aryan rights organizations today.

If this 94 year old is found guilty and punished then only to a small degree will his victims have found justice since he lived to be old...many victims of the nazi's never saw old age.

[bobthedrummer]

81. Tribalism, racism, religious differences-the Nazis exploited human emotion

and the primal forces they sprang from.

[ck4829]

82. A Nazi in the FCF

Did you know that there used to be a Nazi in the Free Congress Foundation(a Conservative group)? Paul Weyrich, the founder of the FCF, is friends with 'delightful' people such as Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. If you want proof go to Secrets of the Free Congress Foundation
While I'm on the subject of Nazis and the FCF, I thought you all may also like to know Bill Lind, director of Cultural Conservatism, spoke to Neo-Nazis and Holocaust Deniers. He blamed Jewish people for the crime of... Political Correctness.
http://www.tolerance.org/news/article_hate.jsp?id=618">http://www.tolerance.org/news/article_hate.jsp?id=618