Germany court summons bishop over Holocaust denial

[Behind the Aegis]

Source: Reuters

A German court said on Wednesday it had summoned traditionalist Catholic bishop Richard Williamson to face charges he denied the Holocaust, an offence punishable by up to five years in jail.

In comments broadcast on Swedish television last January, Williamson said he believed no more than 300,000 Jews perished in the Holocaust and that there were no gas chambers.

The consensus among historians is the Nazis killed some six million Jews in the Holocaust.

The district court in the southern city of Regensburg has set a hearing for April 16, because Williamson had appealed against a 12,000 euro fine for incitement that was summarily handed down last year for his remarks.


Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1145739.html

[Rhiannon12866]

1. Wow! K&R.

Doesn't this pope have any control over his bishops? Oh, wait... x(

Did you see this thread? :-( :hi:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7579728&mesg_id=7579728

[Behind the Aegis]

3. Yes, I saw that thread.

The surprising part...of 164 posts almost half (79) have been removed. It will be interesting to see if this thread "devolves" the way that one did or is "ignored."

[cali]

4. It won't devolve in the same way

there's nothing to latch onto to excuse it.

[Bonobo]

9. Well this is the same website that thinks Air Marshalls should be called for wearing tefillin. nt

[Rhiannon12866]

12. I don't think it'll be the same...

The phrasing of the subject line is less inflammatory and this isn't GD. But I could be wrong... :shrug:

[Faux pas]

2. Maybe the bishop should do some research and while he's at it

he should check out how the vatican aided the escape of several nazis to south america.

[bkohatlanta]

5. Bishop Tobin and now this...

They stole my church and they must give it back. We need to turn back to the principals of John XXIII, who stood up to the Nazis and protected all people. He never allowed or tolerated persecution.

[happyslug]

15. Bishop WIlliamson is a Member of the Pius X Society, which REJECTS Vatican II

Pope John XXII was the Pope that wanted Vatican II and set up its agenda (Through he died before Vatican II was convened). The Society of Pius X rejects the changes in the Catholic Church authored by Vatican II. Pope Benedict has made it his mission to get them back within the Catholic Church WITHOUT rejecting Vatican II. It is a tough job, I have my doubts if Benedict will be able to do it, for the Pius X Society is loaded with people like Williamson.

[Hubert Flottz]

6. I guess every country has it's own Pat Roberts to bear...

The story is that bishop Richard Williamson's church helped many of the most guilty Nazis escape to South America.

[struggle4progress]

7. What exactly are you talking about? Can you provide any links?

Richard Williamson was born in England in 1940; he was an Anglican until the early 1970s, joined the Catholic church briefly, and then quickly bolted to the rightwing Lefebvrists in Switzerland. He's a repugnant holocaust denier, but (given his age) he can scarcely have played any role in a church helping Nazis to escape. Are you accusing the Anglicans in England of helping Nazis after WWII?

[Hubert Flottz]

10. I was talking about the Catholic church...

And I never said HE did anything...

[struggle4progress]

18. You think the Catholic church wanted to help Nazis escape? From the Nuremberg indictments:

... The Nazi conspirators destroyed 1,670 Greek Orthodox churches, 237 Roman Catholic churches, 67 chapels, 532 synagogues, etc. They broke up, desecrated, and senselessly destroyed also the most valuable monuments of the Christian Church, such as Kievo-Pecherskaya Lavra, Novy Jerusalem in the Istrin region, and the most ancient monasteries and churches ... In some occupied territories the defendants interfered in religious matters, persecuted members of the clergy and monastic orders, and expropriated church property ...
Nuremberg Trial Proceedings - Indictment: Count Three
COUNT THREE - WAR CRIMES
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Count3.html

... On Page 68 of this report we find information as to the persecution of the Catholic Church of Czechoslovakia. This excerpt is on Page 79 of the document book, second paragraph. I quote a short excerpt:- "In the territory annexed to Germany after the Munich Pact a number of Czech priests were robbed of their property and expelled. Pilgrimages to national shrines were prohibited in 1939. At the outbreak of war, 437 Catholic priests were among the thousands of Czech patriots arrested and sent to concentration camps as hostages. Venerable church dignitaries were dragged to concentration camps in Germany. On the road near the concentration camps it was a common thing to see a priest dressed in rags, exhausted, pulling a cart, and behind him a youth in SS uniform, whip in hand" ...
The Trial of German Major War Criminals
Sitting at Nuremberg, Germany
27th February to 11th March, 1946
Sixty-Ninth Day: Wednesday, 27th February, 1946
(Part 6 of 9)
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/tgmwc-08/tgmwc-08-69-06.shtml

... Berlin, Germany, Nov 6, 2006 / 12:00 am (CNA).- A new stone sculpture was unveiled in Germany this weekend to commemorate the many Catholic priests and monks killed in a lesser-known World War II Nazi concentration camp near Berlin. The sculpture, unveiled Saturday, is engraved with a cross and the names of 96 clergy who died at Sachsenhausen concentration camp on the north-west outskirts of Berlin, reported Deutsche Presse-Agentur ...
Nazi concentration camp unveils monument to Catholic priests killed in Holocaust
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/nazi_concentration_camp_unveils_monument_to_catholic_priests_killed_in_holocaust/

Dachau became the camp where 2,720 clergymen were sent, including 2,579 Catholic Priests. The priests at Dachau were separated from the other prisoners and housed together in several barrack buildings in the rear of the camp. There were 1,780 Polish priests and 447 German priests at Dachau. Of the 1,034 priests who died in the camp, 868 were Polish and 94 were German ...
Catholic priests in the Dachau concentration camp
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/KZDachau/DachauLife3.html

Hallucinations are no substitute for real history

[Hubert Flottz]

22. Just a few bad apples I guess???

[struggle4progress]

23. Pbfft!

[no_hypocrisy]

8. The Pope really has to make a statement about this . . . . .

[struggle4progress]

11. Vatican orders Holocaust-denying bishop Richard Williamson to recant (Feb 2009)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/04/holocaust-denying-bishop-vatican-recant-pope

[evilkumquat]

13. Holy Irony, Batman!

The ad that came with this post was for the new Mel Gibson movie!

What are the odds...?

[happyslug]

14. Williamson is NOT a Roman Catholic Bishop, he is a member of Pius X Society

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Williamson_(bishop)

While technically, since the Pope lifted the ex-communication in January 2009 he has been a "Bishop" of the Roman Catholic Church, he is a Bishop without a Diocese within the Church. Williamson was excommunicated till 2009 for being made a bishop WITHOUT papal approval. Pope Benedict lifted that ex-communication in an attempt to get the Society of Pius X back under the Catholic Church. After the lifting of the ex-communication, Williamson brought up this claim (Which the Pope later claimed he did not know of, for if he did the ex-communication would NOT have been lifted until Williamson had withdrawn that statement) and both the Vatican and the Pius X Society have distance themselves from.

Just a Comment of who Williamson is and his status within the Catholic Church.

[struggle4progress]

20. Bringing Williamson back into the Church gave the Vatican an opportunity to silence him

ZE09012713 - 2009-01-27
Permalink: http://www.zenit.org/article-24930?l=english
Holocaust-Denying Bishop Silenced
Bishop Fellay Apologizes on Behalf of Pius X Society
MENZINGEN, Switzerland, JAN. 27, 2009 (Zenit.org).- Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior-general of the Society of St. Pius X, publicly apologized for statements regarding the Holocaust made by one of the society's bishops, and reported that the prelate has been forbidden to speak further on the issue ... http://www.zenit.org/article-24930?l=english

And I hope and suspect that was the actual intention of lifting the excommunication

[coyote]

16. I don't know, I have a problem with this.

I am not denying the guy is an asshole. However, I think everyone has a right to believe in what they want. If he wants to be an idiot and deny the holocaust....so be it. Giving him a 12,000 € fine because he is denying the holocaust sounds like they are policing his thoughts.

[DavidDvorkin]

17. I agree with you, in general

But Germany is a somewhat special case and seems to feel that it has a special need to keep such propaganda suppressed.

[struggle4progress]

19. The Nazis murdered millions of Europeans in an industrial-scale operation. They also plunged Europe

into a war that left the continent in ruins. The Germans decided there was no need to be patient with the damnable liars who pretend all that never happened

[coyote]

24. Really I know....

I know all about Treblinka, Auschwitz, Dachau, the jewish ghettos....hell I live in Germany and Dachau is only 20 minutes away from me. However, I am never comfortable with any type of censorship of speech regardless how bad it is. Call me a free speech absolutionist if you will, but I always found German laws regarding the holocaust, nazi symbols, etc a bit too over the top. Having people like this bishop makes one's beliefs only stronger and too never stop fighting what you believe in.

[struggle4progress]

25. The Nazis killed some of my relatives, while others never stopped admiring Hitler. If I have to

choose, I know what side I'm on. I have no sympathy at all for the denialists: Never again

[kenichol]

26. Between what I now know about the radio dj's in Rwanda

and the deniers of the Holocaust, I can no longer argue for free speech, period.

[Codeine]

21. In America we are free speech absolutists, for the most part.

In Europe the very recent specter of the Holocaust has led them to embrace a different philosophy. I don't know if I like it, but I can understand and sympathize with their view.

[mitchtv]

27. sounds like

He's running for Pontiff