I shot US abortion doctor to protect children, Scott Roeder tells court

[panzerfaust]

Source: Guardian (UK)

A self-proclaimed born-again Christian who believes all abortions are a sin told his trial for murder today that he shot dead an abortion doctor in Wichita, Kansas, to protect unborn children.

Scott Roeder said he bought a .22-calibre Taurus gun and ammunition on 30 May 2009, the day before he shot George Tiller, and practised target shooting with his brother. Then he checked into a motel in Wichita and the next day followed Tiller to the Reformation Lutheran church in the town, where the doctor was an usher...

...His confession is part of his defence that he felt forced to kill in order to save the lives of unborn children. He has pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder. It is the first time in US legal history that an anti-abortionist has been allowed to present the jury with his justification for murder.

The judge in the case, Warren Wilbert, caused dismay among pro-abortionists and doctors this month when he ruled that Roeder would be allowed to present his justification to the court. Wilbert will decide later in the trial in Kansas whether the jury will be permitted to find the defendant guilty of the lesser crime of manslaughter.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/28/scott-roeder-abortion-doctor-killer

---

"...will decide later in the trial in Kansas whether the jury will be permitted to find the defendant guilty of the lesser crime of manslaughter."

So. In Kansas, it might prove to be that if you kill for God or Jesus, then the worst you can be convicted of is manslaughter.

In that case, all of those who bomb and kill for Allah should have the same protection.

[geckosfeet]

1. Can't believe the judge is allowing this insanity in a courtroom.

[kckc]

4. not gonna happen :)

local Kansas City station and kake.com in Wichita are now reporting that the judge ruled that the jury cannot consider manslaughter or 2nd degree murder.

[defendandprotect]

49. Right . .. that's what the other article said . . . !!

[naaman fletcher]

50. Don't you think defendants should have a right to present their defense?

I hope the guy rots in jail for the rest of his life, but he has a basic right to present his defense.

[harun]

54. I think they should be able to present their defense.

[Vincardog]

2. This brain dead MFer said he killed to prevent murder.

[jaksavage]

58. Admition of guilt

and abortion is legal, so all the rest is nonsense.
Do we get to make up laws and punishments.
I've got a few to add if we do.

[bluestateguy]

3. He can be declared an enemy combatant and jailed for life, regardless of this trial

If he is found not guilty he can be declared an enemy combatant and warehoused in some secret prison somewhere.

Since that's what all of his "pro-life" supporters seem to support for dark skinned Muslims.

[24601]

21. If he wasn't a US Citizen, than might have been an option. But

the administration isn't doing that with "alleged" terrorists, a'la KSM.

But going back to the Civil War, Ex parte Milligan, 71 U.S. 2 (1866), requires US Citizens to be tried by civilian courts when they are open for business. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_parte_Milligan

The ruling doesn't apply to foreigners.

[Tailormyst]

56. That all changed in recent years

[24601]

61. I doubt it - can you cite any case of a civilian US Citizen tried by

other than civilian courts? I don't believe that happened.

For non-cits, a different precedent applies, it's EX PARTE QUIRIN, 317 U.S. 1 (1942), where the USSC established that:

(1)The defendents (one was a US Cit Dual national) were accused of an offense or offenses which the President is authorized to order tried before a military commission.

(2) That the military commission was lawfully constituted.

(3) That petitioners are held in lawful custody, for trial before the military commission, and have not shown cause for being discharged by writ of habeas corpus.

(except for the informer who called the FBI, they were hung)

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=317&invol=1

[Hawkeye-X]

5. First degree murder.

Life without the possibility of parole.

If KS had death penalty, this guy is it.

[liberalhistorian]

6. Really, asshole?

Does that include Tiller's children and grandchildren? Or are they just not important to you, just like most born children aren't important to you. Sheesh, shut this mofo down already!

[Downwinder]

7. By the same token Scott Roeder can be killed to protect doctors.

What are we coming to? Is anybody safe?

[undeterred]

8. I think its good that he's testifying

because he is so absolutely typical of the stinkin' thinkin' that goes on in the right wing. He will be punished for what he did.

[sam sarrha]

9. they will give the rat bastard an F'n medal

[customerserviceguy]

10. He's only playing to one "judge" at this point

And that judge only exists in his twisted mind.

This trial is his final showcase, and he's making the most of it. It should be just as interesting when KSM uses his trial in NYC for the same purpose.

[24601]

11. Yet, just a few days ago, a DUer recommended death for the

blue dogs.

I'm watching ABC news right now and they just ran the clip from the Dr. Tiller murder Trial )Is it all that surprising that unbalanced wackos on both extremes read crap like that and then infer they are justified committing murder for the greater good. Where did Roeder get his information about Dr. Tiller?

Should we do a better job self-policing such posts?

[theothersnippywshrub]

12. How very republican. n/t

[MuseRider]

13. They are only to consider first degree murder.

Late decision today.

[24601]

15. That's actually not a good thing because if the jury buys any of

the crap about his "necessity" defense, I believe this means they they can't convict him of a lesser charge, from 2nd degree murder through involuntary manslaughter, he could walk.

[SemperEadem]

16. I thought I read here that he could not use that defense

well, they can still hold him as an enemy combattant on the Patriot Act. He is a terrorist. Period.

[defendandprotect]

32. Well, unless they've put together an insane "pro-life" murderous jury, I don't think he'll walk...

but there may be an effort to fast walk him into jail, but slow walk him out down the road?

[msanthrope]

40. Necessity was thrown. So were lesser counts. It's 1st degree or

nothing.

The jury will have to face the idea of putting a man who will not stop killing back on the streets.....

[Demeter]

14. Unless, of course, the little bastards grow up to be pro-choice n/t

[Hawkeye-X]

17. Defense Rests In Roeder Murder Trial

Source: Kake.com

The defense has rested in the Scott Roeder murder trial.

Scott Roeder was sworn in and began his testimony by publicly
admitting he killed Dr. George Tiller in the foyer of his church on
May 31.

Roeder said if someone did not stop Tiller he would have continued to perform abortions.

Judge Warren Wilbert ruled the jury can not consider a lesser verdict of voluntary manslaughter or second degree murder. Closing arguments are expected Friday.

Read more: http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/82592307.html

---

Like I said in the other thread. If KS had death penalty, this guy is it.

He's worse than scum (and I apologize to all scums out there, bacterial or not)

Hawkeye-X

[customerserviceguy]

18. By foreclosing the lesser options

that invites a hung jury. Even on a manslaughter conviction, the guy would probably spend the rest of his life in prison. Second degree murder would practically guarantee it.

I don't know a damned thing about the jury, but I'm willing to guess that there might well be one out of the twelve who buys Roeder's convoluted 'logic'. That's all it takes for a hung jury, and there is no option of appeasing that holdout with a lesser charge to agree on.

[secondwind]

19. KS has a provision that "allows" for manslaughter if the person thought he/she

was protecting someone else by doing it...I hope this guy doesn't get off!

[defendandprotect]

34. By the next "pro-life" murder, the SC may have made fetuses the equal of corps -- !!!

[onenote]

24. if you think that there is someone on the jury who wil buy roeder's "logic"

why do you think that, absent roeder's testimony, that person still wouldn't come to the conclusion that killing Dr. Tiller was justified and attempt to hang the jury?

[customerserviceguy]

25. You're probably right

But seeing him on the stand, boldly saying what he said, might just inspire that individual even more than if he had just sat mute at the defense table.

Roeder knew what he was doing here. If there is one person that he could waiver into causing a hung jury, no matter what, he was going to get to him/her.

[defendandprotect]

31. What happened to "Premeditated Murder" which is what this was ... ??

[defendandprotect]

20. Glad to see the instructions by the judge . .. was worried ...

that he might allow "voluntary manslaughter" or "second degree murder."

And, I would rather we show compassion for a life gone wrong --

glad there's no death penalty.

BUT we should also be after the groups that sent him --

He's the third or fourth of these now -- and they take a huge toll!!

Domestic terrorism!!

[24601]

22. There is a risk here - see my earlier post #15 n/t

[defendandprotect]

35. ... and the two articles seem to be saying two different things about instructions???

[slackmaster]

23. The jury instructions regarding Kansas law should take care of any possibility of an acquittal

No problem.

[RC]

26. Sure, why not? Same invisible cloud being.

"...all of those who bomb and kill for Allah should have the same protection."

[demigoddess]

27. that logic would allow people to kill pedophiles, drug dealer, bad teachers,

abusive parents, and probably a lot of other people I haven't thought of. Legalized murder from just this case would allow mob rule.

[panzerfaust]

64. Fortunately, even in Kansas that did not fly

as the jury took only 37 minutes to convict.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4248675&mesg_id=4248675

Religion keeps trying to drag us into the abyss.

But reason won out this time.

[provis99]

28. I'll bet 100 bucks Roeder is a closet pedophile.

That how these tea party/anti-abortion guys usually are.

[fascisthunter]

29. sicko... every killer has an excuse. Your's, Mr. Roeder was hate based

and so is your phony religious cult. I'm not impressed with your deluded reasoning. You are a terrorist... nothing more.

[defendandprotect]

30. Huh? From the other article . . .

Judge Warren Wilbert ruled the jury can not consider a lesser verdict of voluntary manslaughter or second degree murder. Closing arguments are expected Friday.

[Jkid]

33. So it's first degree murder or nothing

Hopefully the verdict is the formal.

[defendandprotect]

36. Not sure . .. both articles seem to say different things . . . ????

[ezmerelda39]

45. Trial

As long as the courts are packed with Right Wing Judges we are going to keep seeing a lot of decisions that are way 'out there' from the norm. For example: throwing out the trial for Blackwater members who murdered civilians in Iraq. ???

[defendandprotect]

48. As I recall, the GOP stopped something over 200 of Clinton appointees .. .

more than 200!!

And I don't think they ever got thru --

I don't know if Bush was able to then fill them or what?

But agree with you -- they've packed the courts with right wing judges ---

a la Nuremberg Law/Judges!!

It's compounding the corruption --

You might remember Monaghan/?-Domino's Pizza put tons of money into a huge University

system to train lawyers ... pretty much based on religious "morals" . . . !!

[defendandprotect]

37. Why don't these clinics that have been harassed and even shut down have lawsuits ...

against the "pro-life" murderers???

And the communities that back them -- like the pedophile-loving Vatican?

[msanthrope]

41. Because Civil RICO was gutted by SCOTUS once Planned Parenthood

started doing just that....the Catholic Crazy Cabal made sure their masters were protected.

[defendandprotect]

46. ohhhh, yeah . . . I forgot about that one ... RICO . .. turned down--!!

Remember Ellie Smeal/Fund for Feminist Majority was supporting that idea --

[Tansy_Gold]

42. They do have lawsuits, and they have won

But all they can get are monetary damages, and after the settlement has bankrupted that particular organization -- Operation Rescue, for example -- the organizers just form another one.

That's the "beauty" of not for profit corporations -- the corporation is financially liable, but not the individuals.



TG

[defendandprotect]

47. Do you mean they won as individual businesses . . . ?

Whatever -- I imagine once RICO was blocked there couldn't either be

ALL of these owners coming together to sue/class action --

it's outrageous -- this is organized crime -- domestic violence --

Vatican a corporation?



PS: No justice here -- especially since you can see that without the FBI

seriously tracking this domestic violence -- without the RICO law --

with the GOP/Pro-life agenda being pushed to the point of ignoring this violence --

it's the pathway directly to the murders - one by one until we've reached quite a few

now -- and the bombings which also murdered a few and maimed a nurse.

The failure to act for justice is what has brought us this far.

:crazy:

[Politicub]

38. Cold blooded and evil

I hope he gets the maximum penalty and is tormented for the rest of his days.

[ellie]

39. So if someone shoots him

can the defense be so it was to protect doctors?

[Zoeisright]

51. +1000000

My thought too. Perhaps someone should point this out to him?

[Haole Girl]

65. You beat me to this

My thinking exactly.

[KakistocracyHater]

43. wasn't Dr. Tiller an ob/gyn? How many babies did he deliver?

*

[omega minimo]

44. Give him the DEATH PENALTY. Think how many lives it will save.

:evilfrown: :crazy:

[Uben]

52. Roeder should get death penalty

He deserves nothing less.

[Odin2005]

53. Roeder = Domestic terrorist.

[mac56]

55. "Support the pro-life movement, or I'll kill you."

:wtf:

[Xenotime]

57. This is the thinking of the RW terrorists.

[Blue_Tires]

59. he just wants to use the public stage to martyr himself on the cross

he already knows in certain circles his name will be elevated to sainthood like McVeigh...

I really wish investigators used more pressure to root out the organizations he was affiliated with, along with who bankrolls them (we already know the players and usual suspects; it would have been nice to have proof on record of them)... This whole public show of anti-choice terrorist churches disavowing him in the media while celebrating and encouraging the next loner nutbar behind closed doors is getting old.

[The Stranger]

60. So he'd be okay with it if another lunatic shot him to protect doctors?

[flvegan]

62. "pro-abortionists"???

[and-justice-for-all]

63. Scott Roeder is a terrorist...nt