Americans arrested taking children out of Haiti

[demoleft]

Source: reuters

PORT-AU-PRINCE (Reuters) - Haitian police have arrested 10 U.S. citizens caught trying to take 33 children out of the earthquake-stricken country in a suspected illicit adoption scheme, authorities said on Saturday.

The five men and five women were in custody in the capital, Port-au-Prince after their arrests on Friday night. There are fears that traffickers could try to exploit the chaos and turmoil following Haiti's January 12 earthquake quake to engage in illegal adoptions.

One of the suspects, who says she is leader of an Idaho-based charity called New Life Children's Refuge, denied they had done anything wrong.
...
Authorities said the Americans had no documents to prove they had cleared the adoption of the 33 children -- aged 2 months to 12 years -- through any embassy and no papers showing they were made orphans by the quake in the impoverished Caribbean country.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60T23I20100130

---

hm.

[dipsydoodle]

1. Jesus H Christ.

"We had permission from the Dominican Republic government to bring the children to an orphanage that we have
there ?" What the fuck has it got to do with the Dominicans ?

[peacetalksforall]

11. That is a possible juvenile manipulation. The Dominican Republic probably said

it was OK for them to enter for the purpose of transiting Haiti through the DR - ASSUMING or STATING that the Americans had legal approvals to take them. They manipulated the statement to subvert Haitian law? And international policy? They should be stopped at customs and thrown in jail if it true that they just took them.

PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING -

This is just like a story I read after Katrina. I couldn't find it again. But the gist was that people from NO were taken to bible type camps in Arkansas promoted as a refuge. It came out that they were told that they could have NO outside contact and that it was permanent - and yes it was a Christian orgnaization.

This is drastic conversion and soul snatching. Or worse. Money making, slave trading.

[yava]

26. stealing kids from Haiti

Come on guys, this looks like the attack on Puerto Rico voluteer medical staff in Haiti because they had a drinking party after hard work (note, they live in tents, critics live at home) but worse.
So, some NGO tried to save kids that are being stolen, raped or sold totaly or in body parts and they tried to take them across the border at their own risk.
There is no functioning order or government in Haiti right now and the kids are hungry and on the street. Time is of the essence to save these kids.
The NGO which tried this should be applauded if they are real.

[peacetalksforall]

28. Give humanity a break - this is about making more Christians. It is way too early to claim they are

orphans.

[nodehopper]

33. please read this

http://www.racialicious.com/2010/01/26/the-dangerous-desire-to-adopt-haitian-babies/

[Courtesy Flush]

53. I work in the system

I no longer work with foster and adoptive parents, but I'm still in the child welfare system. After 9/11 we got calls from people swooping in like vultures, wanting the victims' children. Adoptive parents can be a ruthless and selfish bunch. They wrap themselves in a veil of compassion, but they often want to adopt for their own selfish reasons.

Show me an adoptive parent who'll take a 14 year old, and I'll show you a selfless person, but I cringe when I hear "I think it's best if they're a baby." Sure. Best for you. But they make it sound like they're doing the older kids a favor by not adopting them.

Some people have a change of heart, though. I certified a couple who wanted a baby, and ended up adopting a sibling group of five, teenagers and all. They were awesome people.

[Hannah Bell]

44. bull. taking kids out without paper trail could be for anything. slaves or whatever.

selling the kids to fund their church.

if they had legit goals, they'd follow the rules. they don't have to take the kids out to feed them.

[Green_Lantern]

57. innocent until proven guilty..

There's no evidence this was about sex slavery.

[No Elephants]

39. If true, it might at least indicate that they were not taking the children solely to exploit them.

Not saying at all that I think they're legit. Just saying what the relevance of mentioning the Dominican Republic might be.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dipsydoodle]

3. Is there something about

"no papers showing they were made orphans by the quake" that you can't quite grasp ? Perhaps I should recommend a course in english as a second language to you.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cartach]

36. Perhaps you should

take an English course yourself. You should also identify yourself as a member of the Language Police in your posts you self righteous @x&@%.

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. I someone had come rushing in here to take 9/11 orphans away without checking to see

if there was any family left, I am sure the US gov't would have said and done something.

It's important to take care of the kids, but also important not to separate them from family if possible, and _very_ important to make sure everything is on the up-and-up.

[tblue37]

10. Besides, sometimes children are put out for "adoption" by

agencies that don't care what the "adopters" want to do with the children once they get them. Some are used as servants--slaves--virtually, while others are sexually exploited.

[peacetalksforall]

14. And tax exemptions. So, we're saying that something like that happened

after 9-11, Katrina, and now Haiti?

It could take weeks into months to account for everyone before a child is considered an orphan. Shameless. What is Christian about so-called christians like this? I condemn this all.

I have come to despise religious radicals wherever they come from.

I am shaking.

We need to send a letter to Clinton and ICE and Obama and all our Senators and Reps. And Bill Clinton and GW Bush. And the UN.

We need to catch these people - they are thieves. Human race thieves.

[No Elephants]

40. Did Ed Rendell check to see if any family was left? I know the kids he took were in an orphanage,

but that does not mean no family was around--grandparents, aunts or uncles, etc.

I never understood how he just got to swoop in and empty out an orphanage, either, though I am sure his intentions were the best.

[Suich]

5. Welcome to DU, deerhead750!

:party:

[truedelphi]

7. Plus these "Adopting" adults were not planning on adopting the kids themselves,

but instead using them for what is probably a profit making operation.

Were you able to catch the "Dateline" show about the Utah organization that kidnapped kids from Fiji - taking them form their parents and then hours later turning them over to the Americans who wanted to adopt?

Ask yourself, if your parents were killed, would you prefer an auntie, cousin or granma who spoke your language to raise you, or some stranger whose language is alien to the one you speak? Who lives in a totally different climate thousands of miles from where your family and friends are?

[jwirr]

15. Utah Mormons used to kidnap Native American Children under the

guise of education. Nothing new in this scene.

[peacetalksforall]

29. White Americans of all kinds stole Native Americans and put them in western clothes

and fixed their hair victorian style and made them sit in classrooms and learn religion. They stole the children and forced another culture on them. How arrogant. How imbecilic. Yanked they away from the parents. What right do these Northern European people have to rule the world?

[No Elephants]

41. Not only white Americans. Australia "adopted out" the children of its indigenous people while .

one or both of their natural parents were still living.

It's all part of the mentality behind Take up the White Man's Burden. (Rudyard Kipling) (Some say Kipling was being purely sarcastic, but, if so, he was mocking something that existed in the real world.)

[BolivarianHero]

23. Fiji is run by fundie-fucks...

I'm sure the native gov't was complicit if it took place before the liberal coup of 2006.

[KamaAina]

27. Fiji run by fundie-fucks? Do tell.

I lived in the Pacific (Hawai'i) for years, and so was aware of the frequent coups -- but somehow or other, it was never made clear to us that one side was comprised of fundie-fucks. :grr: :banghead:

[BolivarianHero]

32. Hmm...

The architect of the 2000 coup, George Speight, was a conservative Christian and ethnic Fijian nationalist...

The guy who was overthrown in the 2006 coup was racist fundamentalist with a hate-on for ethnic Indians and homosexuals.

Qarase is known as a devout and outspoken Christian. Addressing the Christian Youth Conference in Suva on 15 May 2005, he called on young Christians to put their faith into practice, and not to be intimidated by peers who might consider a strong religious commitment to be unfashionable. He also called on Christian young people to do what they could to stop the spread of AIDS, which he said "poses a terrible threat to the world."
The Prime Minister took a public stand on 24 January 2006 to support controversial American evangelist and faith healer Benny Hinn, who was conducting a crusade in Fiji. Despite reports of disillusionment by some people who were not healed, many thousands had been, Qarase told the Fiji Sun, and at any rate, the healings were "only a small part" of Hinn's message.
He also took a strong stand against the legalisation of homosexuality. Reacting on 29 August 2005 to a decision of High Court Justice Gerald Winter to free a Fijian citizen and an Australian who had been convicted of sodomy, on the grounds that it was illegal only if committed in a public place, Qarase said he was of the opinion that any law which conflicted with God's laws should be amended, and he would study ways to ensure that homosexual acts remained illegal. Qarase's statement brought a strong reaction from United Peoples Party leader Mick Beddoes, who said that homosexuals were human beings and entitled to the full protection of the law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laisenia_Qarase#Political_controversies

Along with Portugal's Carnation Revolution, it was a coup I was proud to support.

[KamaAina]

38. Here in the States, Speight was portrayed as an extreme nationalist only

while the religious aspect was pretty much ignored. Hmmm....

[BolivarianHero]

50. The 2006 coup was an attempt to undo the harm of the 2000 coup...

Indo-Fijians and other minorities are better rulers by virtue of their support the secular state (the exception goes to the sliver of liberal-secular indigenous Fijians)....Sort of like how most of the people who consistently protect civil liberties in the U.S. tend to be gay, non-religious, or Jewish, and as such, these people are more fit to rule than than White evangelical plurality

[Solly Mack]

8. Here's their mission statement & it seems to contradict Sillsby's statement

http://www.esbctwinfalls.com/clientimages/24453/pdffiles/haiti/nlcrhaitianorphanrescuemission.pdf

"But Laura Sillsby from the Idaho group told Reuters from a jail cell at Haiti's Judicial Police headquarters, "We had permission from the Dominican Republic government to bring the children to an orphanage that we have there.""

Seems the orphanage hasn't even been built yet - still in the process of buying the land. Also, it says they will be leasing a hotel..will be..not have or did...nothing established. That they planned on getting kids on the street/makeshift hospitals, etc....just coming in and taking them away...no papers, no anything

The DR can't give permission to take kids off the street in another country...the Haitian govt. & the families do have a say so.

[Aviation Pro]

19. Why do I get a very uneasy feeling whenever the Dominican Republic....

...is mentioned in conjunction with orphans? Maybe because alleged pedophile, the Oxycontin-chugging, Viagra-swilling fat bag 'o shit takes "vacations" there.

[Hannah Bell]

45. take them to an unbuilt orphanage? they probably sell kids for slaves for $$.

[Solly Mack]

48. She's lying, of course. Their own mission statement gives them away.

[Hulk]

9. Hang 'em high!

Got that "old time religion" again.

[glinda]

12. Sounds like permanently living in a compound and getting "Baptized". Ugggh!

http://www.centralvalleybaptist.net/cvbc09/splash/haiti2.cfm?CFID=36372239&CFTOKEN=84568109

[conscious evolution]

13. I wonder if kidnapping children

is a death penalty offense in Hiati.

[Green_Lantern]

55. I doubt it but I bet

Trafficking in children for exploitation is. That's why I oppose calling them traffickers without evidence of that.

[Haole Girl]

16. I'm glad they caught them. (nt)

[Chicago dyke]

17. slave traders and prostitution rings

what a ridiculous argument. so i can come to your house and steal your kids because the canadian government says i can? /eyeroll/

slave traders and prostitution ring leaders. blatantly obvious.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nay]

25. Yep. Anyone who thinks these kids were going 2B 'adopted' is an idiot.nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. How come every time I hear about these Haitian orphans

I get a mental picture of little kids at the animal shelter picking out a puppy?

[fascisthunter]

21. Vultures taking Advantage of the Desperate

makes recruiting a lot easier.

[winyanstaz]

22. I am glad they caught them....

They damned well knew they were doing wrong too...ESPECIALLY if they were a legitimate children's agency.

[JI7]

24. is this some Fundie group ?

[MichaelHarris]

30. I wrote a bit

about this a week or so ago. Religion has become the biggest child meat market on the planet. They set up shop in extremely poor countries and charge huge adoption fees. Slavery, in the form of buying and selling human flesh, never really ended in Africa and Haiti. The only thing that changed was who sold the flesh.

[Shanti Mama]

35. Evangelicals adopt from Catholic countries for the express purpose

of saving the children from Catholicism. This is absolutely true, particularly in Guatemala.

My adopted daughter's older birth sister, adopted by holier than thou's near Colorado Springs, pray at every meal for the poor people of Nepal who are going to hell because they're afflicted by Buddhism and Hinduism. What message does this send to their daughter (and now a second, from India). We were kicked out of their house -- very Jesus-like, yes?

[EmeraldCityGrl]

31. I can't tell you how angry this makes me.

I've been watching these people paraded on CNN with these kids
and it's infuriating these children will never know anything about the
rich culture they come from. They'll be turned into fundie zombies.

It's all to sad for words especially when there are some very good,
reputable groups like UNICEF that know what they're doing.

I wish these people would be prosecuted, jailed and fined, but you
just know some bureaucrat will negotiate there release and the charges
will be dropped.

[billyoc]

34. Summary executions all around.

Just line them up and shoot them on the fucking spot.

[Green_Lantern]

56. so much for human rights huh?

Shouldn't they be proven guilty first?

[greiner3]

37. "aged 2 months to 12 years;"

rush fodder. Just saying.

[MilitarismFTL]

42. Human trafficking

Is the first thing I think about going wrong when it comes to massive rescue efforts like this. Probably the most terrifying thing besides death during national tragedies.

[alittlelark]

43. The Dom. Rep. is known for it's child sex trade (Limbaugh...)

http://www.worldvision.ca/ContentArchives/content-stories/Pages/ChildrenExploitedintheSexTrade.aspx


Rush loves it there.

[jmowreader]

46. I seriously doubt this has anything to do with child slavery

I have been looking at the prices for adopting Haitian children. For a legitimate Haitian adoption it is a little on the pricey side and there are some fairly stiff regulations. (This is from the Haitian government's regulations on adoption at http://haiti.usembassy.gov/uploads/images/QFRTyNSI2PtYrWcHppluYA/DEC05AdoptBrochure.pdf so it's correct.)

The child needs a Haitian passport to leave Haiti.
The parents must be older than 35--a married couple can have one member under 35 IF they have been married for at least 10 years and have no children together. Haitian law allows single parents to adopt.
The child must be adopted in Haiti, so you have to travel to Haiti to do it. There are three steps:

1. Go to the Justice of the Peace in the area the child is living in and obtain a release form, called an Extrait des Minutes des Greffes, which says the people who have legal custody of the child will allow you to adopt the child.
2. Submit this document to the Port au Prince office of the Haitian Department of Social Services. (The websites devoted to Haitian adoption information call this place the Big Black Hole. This should tell you something.) The DSS office conducts an investigation which includes the physical and mental health of the child and the prospective adopting parents. If they're happy, they give you a second form called Autorisation d'Adoption.
3. Take both of these forms to the Civil Court in the area where the child lives. If they're happy, they issue a third form called Acte d'Adoption--the actual adoption decree. At that point you get the child a Haitian passport and visit the US Consulate in Port au Prince for an immigrant visa. This takes a week. With ALL THAT in your hands, you buy a plane ticket and return to the US.

(Essentially, you're looking at anywhere from two months to a year from the time the process starts until you're wheels-up at Port au Prince with your kid.)

Given all this, what's the fee? It starts at $3000...not counting attorney's fees, graft, airfare, hotel rooms...

Here's what I'm thinking. Follow along: At this point there are a shitload of dead people on the ground in Haiti--meaning there are a lot of actual orphans down there. Since the entire government infrastructure in Haiti is now lying on the ground in little pieces, someone who wanted to "save" Haitian children from their devil religion (the one you and I call "Catholicism") wouldn't have much of a problem walking into a Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services office, claiming they had with them a Haitian Orphan they wished to adopt, and getting all the paperwork through quickly and easily. They probably wouldn't need any forms from Haiti since the Haitian government is tore to shit and the US government knows it. Rather than a year's wait and a LOT of paperwork and investigations, you're looking at five thousand dollars to the baby brokers and maybe two weeks time. If either of the child's natural parents remained alive, they'd probably think the child was just lost in the disaster--they certainly won't have the financial wherewithal to fly from Port au Prince to Idaho looking for her.

[muriel_volestrangler]

47. SOS Children's Villages: Haiti 'orphans' found with Americans may have parents

The Americans said the youngsters had all lost their parents in the quake.

But George Willeit, a spokesman in Port-au-Prince for SOS Children's Villages, which is now looking after the children, says at least one of them, a little girl, said her parents were alive.

He told journalists the girl said she had believed she was being taken to a boarding school or summer camp.
...
Haitian authorities said none of the children had documentation or proof they were actually parentless.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8490469.stm

[Turborama]

49. 'Child smuggling' arrests in Haiti (Article & Video)

'Child smuggling' arrests in Haiti

Haitian police have detained 10 US nationals for trying to bus 33 children across the border into the Dominican Republic.

Yves Christallin, the Haitian social affairs minister, said on Sunday that police arrested five men and five women with US passports, along with two Haitians, as they tried to cross the border on Friday night.

"This is an abduction, not an adoption," Christallin said.

He said the US citizens did not have the proper documents from the government to take the children out of Haiti, nor letters of authorisation from their parents.

More: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/01/2010131124847273839.html

'Child traffickers' held in Haiti

Haitian police have arrested 10 Americans suspected of trying to smuggle children out of the earthquake ravaged country.

The government said that five men and five women were caught with 33 children as they were trying to reach the Dominican Republic without proper documentation.

They are all members of a US baptist church, and say they were going to set up an orphanage for the children in the Dominican Republic.

Al Jazeera English's Zeina Awad reports: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5yw5l20Dg0

[Onceuponalife]

51. From what I understand it is Southern Baptist groups that are doing this

Gee, what a big surprise. I've always hated those who think they have the right to go to other countries and "convert the heathens." Grrr.

[demoleft]

52. "Idaho church prays for Americans held in Haiti"

"MERIDIAN, Idaho – A tearful Idaho congregation heard their pastor warn that church members detained in Haiti after attempting to take 33 children into the Dominican Republic could face child trafficking charges. Then the pastor urged them to pray.

"It should be very obvious, after our team was arrested, that prayer is needed more now than perhaps at any other time," Senior Pastor Clint Henry said during Sunday services at Central Valley Baptist Church in Meridian, west of Boise."

ap, http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100201/ap_on_re_us/us_haiti_idaho_church

[Green_Lantern]

54. if these people were taking these kids for

Humanitarian purposes than I think Haiti should drop the charges or show leniency towards them. They shouldn't be charged, convicted, and imprisoned for trafficking and exploitation of children without any evidence of that.

Too many people here have already deemed them guilty of trafficking child sex slaves even though they haven't even been charged with that.

We also need to tread lightly here so people and aid groups aren't afraid to go help out like this for fear of doing something dumb thinking you are doing good and ending up in prison.

[Judi Lynn]

58. Missionary left trail of financial woes in Idaho

Missionary left trail of financial woes in Idaho
KATY MOELLER, BOISE, IDAHO
February 6, 2010

http://images.theage.com.au.nyud.net:8090/2010/02/06/1097646/Silsby-200x0.jpg

THE Idaho woman who led a group of 10 Baptists on a mission to help children in Haiti admits to failing to obtain paperwork needed to move 33 children to the Dominican Republic.

But even before Laura Silsby (pictured) and seven other Idahoans ended up in a Haitian jail accused of trafficking in children, she had a history of failing to pay debts, failing to pay her employees and failing even to follow Idaho laws.

Silsby has been the subject of eight civil lawsuits and 14 unpaid-wage claims. The $US358,000 Meridian, Idaho, house at which she founded her non-profit New Life Children's Refuge in November was foreclosed on in December. A check of Silsby's driving record revealed at least nine traffic citations since 1997, including four for failing to provide insurance or register annually.

Silsby is a long-time Idaho businesswoman. In 1999, she founded an internet business. As CEO of PersonalShopper.com, the mother of three was named eWomenNetwork's international businesswoman of the year in 2006.

Three years later, building an orphanage for Haitian and Dominican children became Silsby's vision, and the 40-year-old brought others on board, including her 24-year-old nanny, Charisa Coulter.

More:
http://www.theage.com.au/world/missionary-left-trail-of-financial-woes-in-idaho-20100205-nim3.html

[Judi Lynn]

59. Americans detained: Lawyer says missionary leader to blame for Haiti kidnap case

Americans detained: Lawyer says missionary leader to blame for Haiti kidnap case
Associated Press
Posted February 5, 2010 at 5:55 a.m.

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti — Ten Baptist missionaries are facing kidnapping charges in Haiti for trying to take 33 children out of the country, and the lawyer for all the defendants is putting the blame on the group's leader.

Attorney Edwin Coq said Laura Silsby knew the group couldn't remove the youngsters without proper paperwork, while he characterized the other nine missionaries as unknowingly being caught up in actions they didn't understand.

"I'm going to do everything I can to get the nine out. They were naive. They had no idea what was going on and they did not know that they needed official papers to cross the border. But Silsby did," Coq said Thursday after a magistrate charged the 10 at a closed hearing.

Silsby waved to reporters but declined to answer questions as the missionaries were taken back to the holding cells where they have been held since Saturday. Haitians left homeless by the Jan. 12 earthquake sat idly under tarps in the parking lot, smoke rising from a cooking fire.

Silsby had expressed optimism before the hearing. "We expect God's will be done. And we will be released," she told reporters.

More:
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/feb/05/americans-detained-lawyer-says-missionary-leader-b/

http://lh3.ggpht.com.nyud.net:8090/_APjgPmP_12w/Skiti_RrcSI/AAAAAAAAFMI/XIAEUkWIQvY/050823jthom_first_vision_meatballs_t.jpg

[demoleft]

60. UPDATE. Feb, 6: the ten americans were denied conditional release.

"Mr Clinton visited as 10 US citizens facing child abduction charges were denied conditional release.

The five men and five women, all Baptist missionaries, were sent back to jail with no further hearing scheduled for several days at least."

bbc, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8501660.stm

[dipsydoodle]

61. Out of interest - on UK TV News

they are simply referred to as "baptists"