US says it may kill Americans abroad

[kpete]

Source: Raw Story

In a striking admission from the Obama Administration's top intelligence officer, Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair announced Wednesday that the United States may target its own citizens abroad for death if it believes they are associated with terrorist groups.

"We take direct action against terrorists in the intelligence community," Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair told the House Intelligence Committee. He said US counter-terrorism officials may try to kill American citizens embroiled in extremist groups overseas with "specific permission" from higher up.

If "we think that direct action will involve killing an American, we get specific permission to do that," Blair said in response to questions from the panel's top Republican, Representative Pete Hoekstra.

Blair's comments came after The Washington Post reported that US President Barack Obama had embraced predecessor George W. Bush's policy of authorizing the killing of US citizens involved in terrorist activities overseas.


Read more: http://rawstory.com/2010/02/kill-americans/

[sui generis]

1. woopsy - sorry we blew up the wrong dude.

gotta love those trials without a trial.

"Acting on the best information we had, we assassinated an American citizen. We're sorry, it was the wrong guy, but, hey, we'll try to get the right one next time."

That's all they have to say to assassinate anyone, for any reason. There is no "remedy" for a mistake.

This is actually slightly worse than the bush administration.

[zonkers]

20. Hey dude, where's my justice?

[bejamin wood]

44. I hope they don't use the no fly lists for reference...

[Paranoid Pessimist]

45. It doesn't have to be abroad. They can kill you here in the secure homeland.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/02/04-3

[Demeter]

69. Yeah, but Where's the Sport in That?

It would be like Cheney shooting those caged lawyer....uh, birds.

[yava]

49. for ct action will involve killing an American, we get specific permission to do that

Nice to know: no specific permission required to kill non-US citizens.
Thats where Judge Garzon of Spain comes in?
There is another interesting aspect: the statement refers to "direct action" only, i.e., indirect (outsourced) action to kill US citizens does not require prior OK from higher ups.

[dixiegrrrrl]

66. Thus the support for Blackwater types.

aka: The "good Christian" militia.

[Art_from_Ark]

50. Now that's "change I can believe in"TM

NOT!
:puke:

[DrDan]

2. I suppose this has been going on for years . . . but it is still a sad commentary on our country

[carla]

39. The last few decades your country

has been a sad commentary on your country. Good luck with that...

[dixiegrrrrl]

65. Too true...we must look so insane to outsiders.

Hell, we look insane to insiders!
Just, apparently, to not enough insiders.x(

[maddezmom]

3. reading through all the lines IMO, they definately are going after Awlaki

Al-Awlaki's father asks Obama to end manhuntBy Paula Newton, CNN International Security Correspondent
February 2, 2010 -- Updated 2335 GMT (0735 HKT)
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/02/02/yemen.terror.plea.exclusive/

Christmas bomber was my 'student': Yemeni cleric Awlaqi

(AFP) – 18 hours ago

WASHINGTON — Radical Yemeni cleric Anwar Al-Awlaqi has praised a Christmas Day attempt to blow up a US airliner and said the man accused in the attack was his "student," according to an interview published by Al-Jazeera.

The militant religious leader, accused of links to Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, said he supported the attack.

He described alleged bomber Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, who reportedly received training in Yemen, as his "student," but said that he did not direct the young Nigerian to launch the attack.

more:http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i3Hu2u8BDseTd1SWUPrRJ4zL11sA

and then the various links here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4254332

[activa8tr]

4. Why not just arrest them and bring them home for trial and justice?

Killing people instead of convicting them, this makes us different from the Taliban and AlQaeda HOW?

[havocmom]

5. Good questions, activa8tr!

Welcome to DU.

[UpInArms]

6. trial and justice?

those only work when we have a country of law - we gave that up on December 12, 2000 -

the USSC involved itself in a political issue - an election - and it -- not the people -- chose the occupant of the Whitehouse.

From that moment on, we have forsaken all law and order in this country.

[Rebubula]

9. LOLZ

From that moment on, we have forsaken all law and order in this country


Hyperbole much??

[ixion]

14. the so-called 'wars' on terror and drugs fly in the face of the Rule of Law

so it's not really hyperbole.

I guess you'll think it's funny until some gestapo thugs shows up on YOUR doorstep. Then it won't be hyperbole at all, it'll be your ass in a canvas sack being shipped off to GITMO.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Stranger]

23. When you connect the dots, it isn't hyperbole.

[UpInArms]

47. rendention, guantanamo, CIA killing US citizens

torture, illegal war, looting of the Treasury, et al....

What are you talking about?

[TankLV]

59. You forgot the "sarcasm" thingy...

If you're serious, your an idiot...

[stray cat]

7. Getting killed resisting arrest..... Do you want to walk in and arrest someone

in the midst of a Somalia terrorist camp?

[davepc]

19. A Marine MEU or Ranger battalion could probably do it

Though the target would probably wind up dead in the attack anyways and you'd lose some American personal in the attempt.

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. Exactly. This is not about assassination squads. It is about how to handle

the bad PR when there may be an American who may be killed in an anti-terrorist operation.

I am frankly surprised it's an issue.

There is a house on the Pakistani border where there is a known AQ leader and three followers holed up. The leader is Yemeni, the followers are (1 each) Pakistani, Afghan, Jordanian.

What do we do? Hit it with a Predator.

There is a house on the Pakistani border where there is a known AQ leader and three followers holed up. The leader is Yemeni, the followers are (1 each) Pakistani, Afghan, American.

What do we do? Send word up the line, get approval from the highest authorities, because of that American. After getting permission, hit it with a predator six hours after they all left, killing leader's cousin's tupperware party.

Just how did an American being in the group change the dynamic?

[Nihil]

68. You were joking weren't you?

> Just how did an American being in the group change the dynamic?

Normal rules simply don't apply to Americans - that has been obvious
to the rest of the world for years - so yes, this is simply a PR move
to cut down on the paperwork ... except, as noted with various US
citizens in the past, nobody really pays too much attention to the
paperwork when there's a suitable weapon handy.

[mbperrin]

41. Mmmmm, if they're IN the camp, they're probably not out doing

mischief, eh?

How about nabbing them with law enforcement personnel when they get here? We certainly had every opportunity to pick up the 9/11 hijackers, but ignored our own FBI.

Enforcing the law is either good or no good. This country went with the no good in 2000.

I hate that.

[closeupready]

27. Because we can not trust our justice system to get it right!

Obviously. :sarcasm:

[Freddie Stubbs]

40. Sometimes killing them is the only option if they are shooting at you:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4252518

[daleo]

53. We have clean shaven operatives. n/t

[hack89]

55. Pretty naive

how do you arrest someone in Yemen or Somalia or the Tribal areas of Pakistan? Places where there is either no functional government or where they are hostile to America? Why do you think any American law enforcement organization has the power or jurisdiction to enter a foreign country to arrest people?

The way I read this, if an American is in the company of terrorist and that group of terrorist is targeted, the American gets no special regard. If he is in the house with a bomb maker, the presence of the American does not prevent the CIA from blowing up the house to kill the bomb maker.

[indepat]

8. Embracing and ratifying a foul initative by junior, one at a time, one by one

:P

[dixiegrrrrl]

10. How long before they target Americans in the USA?

For the "right reasons" of course.

This steady erosion of rights is disturbing.

Yes, yes, I know they are targeting an alleged terrorist.
Alleged by the news sources that gets the info. from the CIA and other government sources,
all of whom are deeply invested in the "terrorism" issue.

[FarCenter]

12. Ruby Ridge? Waco?

[dixiegrrrrl]

16. Point taken and made.

[FarCenter]

17. See also "CIA Shootdown of Missionaries"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4255566

The only problem seems to be that they shot down missionary American citizens instead of drug-running American citizens.

[ixion]

15. They already are... the so-called 'war' on drugs is the domestic version of the 'war' on terror

it's been going on for decades.

[Javaman]

21. They already do.

but so far they have been all media type events which single out people who don't, according to the Government, want to share their blocks.

But it doesn't take a gigantic leap of faith to go the next step of quiet detentions. I black colored sedan pulls up to a home in the middle of the night, a knock, ID cards show, the person is hauled off while the wife or partner hides fearful behind the door watching their loved one vanish into the back seat never to be seen again.

They will do it with bombs and bullets in Paki-afghani-land, but here, not so much. Fear and threats will do the trick. Don't want to make a scene after all, that's bad press, but then of course, the press will be told to keep their mouths shut. And any intrepid reporter out to actually be a journalist will wind up out of a job, muzzled by the powers that be or dead.

It's really a shame that I can extrapolate the way I can without having to put on my tinfoil hat anymore.

We were pushed down the rabbit hole a long time ago.

[The Stranger]

24. Los Desaparecidos.

http://www.desaparecidos.org/arg/eng.html

[Vidar]

11. So now they can classify all their friendly fire mistakes as triumphs in

the war on terrorism.

[Nihil]

67. Yep ... now that's a bonus that will come in useful ...! (n/t)

[ixion]

13. so much for the Rule of Law

piss off the wrong person in the government, and find yourself on some assassin's hit list.

Gee, that's some change. :eyes:

[The Stranger]

22. Hey, while you're at it, why not kill Americans stateside, too?

Instead of the attack on law and due process being rolled back, it continues to expand, even under Obama. What the fuck is going on here?

[grahamhgreen]

26. That will be next year.

[panzerfaust]

63. Change you ... Change you can ... ummm Change ??

True change in transparency - now our government admits that it might simply shoot you down like a rabid dog if it thinks you might be a threat.



Not the change I had in mind though.

[grahamhgreen]

25. It's called Totalitarianism. nt

[closeupready]

28. More like dictatorship.

IMO.

[LeFleur1]

29. This is Scary

"if it believes"

So now instead of being proven guilty the standard is 'if the government believes'. How comforting.
How did this all happen in the USA?

[closeupready]

31. I don't know either. I believe Israel reserves the right to do this.

And somehow, people in DC think that, this is the way to go. Mostly Republicans, but sadly, even some Democrats think this is okay.

(I've got Sinclair's "It Can't Happen Here" on my bookshelf, and I think the time is getting ripe to actually crack it open and start reading.)

[dixiegrrrrl]

34. Happily, the book is also available on line to read.

http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301001h.html

AND it is a must read.

As is Mayer's They Thought They Were Free, in which he outlines
what life was like in Germany in the 1930s and early '40s, and how a free people
could be drained of their freedoms without losing the sense that they were still free.

[closeupready]

35. Excellent - thanks for the link!

I had no idea it was out of copyright.

[grahamhgreen]

37. Just grabbed it for my phone - thanks!

[Ignis]

42. But the rule of law is just so HARD!

Why can't we just do away with that whole pesky justice system? We KNOW in our GUTS who the bad guys are, right?

:argh:

[optimator]

30. guess that PEACE PRIZE had no effect

Obama uses violence as a solution to every problem.

[hayu_lol]

33. Before Bush took office, wet work by our CIA was forbidden...

one of the first acts of Shrub, was to reorganize the hit squads/agents for killing specific targets. This would probably be an executive order(secret and locked away)or included in one of his signing statements.

If Americans choose to associate with our various enemies abroad, they can damn well take their chances. Better them than members of our military. A war zone is exactly that.

Inside the US, different rules must apply.

[boppers]

61. "Before Bush took office, wet work by our CIA was forbidden"

You are confused, or mis-informed.

[gulfcoastliberal]

36. K&R... nt

[Unvanguard]

38. If we can do it to non-citizens, why can't we do it to citizens?

It seems to me like the extra-judicial element cuts equally both ways. If the excuse is that they're an enemy combatant, they're an enemy combatant regardless of whose citizenship they have.

[krabigirl]

43. Scary. I am sure they will use this against not just "terrorists" in the future.

[aldo]

46. If anyone thinks this will stay just overseas is a teeny, tiny child

The same regarding this happening only to scary, bearded Muslims.

[bemildred]

48. "Everybody else does, why not us too?" nt

[JoeyT]

51. I fully trust our government to only use these powers to protect us from terrorists.

Just like they did with the Patriot Act.
Oh yeah, never mind.

[unkachuck]

52. K&R....

....what do they call that when a government arbitrarily kills its own citizens?

[daleo]

54. Is there a Star Chamber?

If so, I wonder who's on the panel?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Chamber

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

56. So were living the plot of the Borne Ultimatum?

I have never been so proud to be an american...

[Faryn Balyncd]

57. Excuse me, I need to vomit.

K & R



:hi:




:kick:

[piedmont]

58. If Adam Gadhan shows up on the vid of a UAV, I would hope he gets the same treatment as bin Laden.

Americans waging war on America should be captured if possible or killed if not. I know that's not popular here, but what else can be done in cases in which an American is aiding our enemies and is determined not to be captured?

[panzerfaust]

60. Its OK, they promise to be careful - No more Baby Killing like last time

Missionary family killed by CIA after having shadowed them for at least two hours and having decided that they were, in the immortal, immoral words of George Bush, "bad guys."

Director of National Intelligence Dennis C. Blair acknowledged Wednesday that government agencies may kill U.S. citizens abroad who are involved in terrorist activities if they are "taking action that threatens Americans."

Blair told members of the House intelligence committee that he was speaking publicly about the issue to reassure Americans that intelligence agencies and the Department of Defense "follow a set of defined policy and legal procedures that are very carefully observed" in the use of lethal force against U.S. citizens...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/03/AR2010020303968.html

Basically, all governments want the power to simply kill when they wish - because people who are attracted by power are mentally unwell.

Oh yes, I feel safer now.

[Wardoc]

62. AYFKM?!! More "change" we can believe in I guess. Thanks Obama. (nt)

[rug]

64. Kill them there before they get here!

Wait a minute.

:silly:

[Nihil]

70. Better still ...

... kill them before they leave the US!

That way it not only saves on the travel expenses but helps to keep
the rest of the world safer from the "Team America" (FY) guys who
don't care about petty stuff like sovereignty or innocent civilians!