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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-26-10 04:34 PM
Original message
Leahy: Bush Era Memos Justified Torture
Source: CBS News/AP

Senate Committee Says Harsh Interrogation Tactics Were "Means to an End"

(AP) Two lawyers in the Bush Justice Department were justifying torture when they approved harsh interrogations of suspected terrorists, the Senate Judiciary Committee chairman said Friday.

That advice "was designed to achieve an end," Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., said at a hearing where lawmakers for the first time received detailed testimony from a Justice official about a department inquiry that found the lawyers showed bad judgment but committed no misconduct.

Defending the investigation, acting Deputy Attorney General Gary Grindler told the committee, "Although some may disagree with our conclusions, we are confident that the department followed an appropriate process." The No. 2 Justice official was the lone witness.

The probe of former department lawyers Jay Bybee and John Yoo found that their legal advice in response to a CIA proposal contained significant flaws, but did not warrant their referral to state bar associations for possible discipline.


Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/26/politics/main6246947.shtml
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-26-10 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Anyway to get warrants?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-26-10 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Attention, Nuremberg defendants, Next time, say, "I vas only following mein lawyer's advice."
Edited on Fri Feb-26-10 04:52 PM by No Elephants
Apparently, that works much better than, "I vas only following orders."

Doesn't even matter if YOU actually believed you were torturing. Doesn't matter if you asked for the advice solely in order to give yourself cover for torturing. Doesn't matter if you tortured first, then asked for the advice. Doesn't matter if you rewarded one of the lawyers with a judgship, after he cooperated with Gonzo and produced the advice you wanted.

Bottom line, the Yoo/Bybee Defense works, no matter what. The Nuremberg Defense, not so much.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. just poor legal advice according to Margolis
Edited on Mon Mar-01-10 03:22 PM by Supersedeas
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-26-10 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. Disgusting doesn't even begin cover this, how in the hell these lawyers
can be off the hook is an open invitation for this hideous CRIMINAL behavior to be advocated for again in the future.

Yoo and Bybee must be celebrating, along with all the other lunatic neocons.

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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-26-10 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. So torture is OK if you "followed an appropriate process".
:puke:
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POAS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-26-10 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yep it's all about the process. Just like the healthcare debate.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-26-10 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
6. I am going to go out on a limb here, but didn't the Third Reich
make such assertions, also?

And, didn't they end up in the Hague?

Hopefully, the wheels of justice will grind these criminals into dust.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-26-10 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yep, lawyers tried and convicted. 1947 case United States of America v. Josef Altstoetter et al.,
A Tap on the Shoulder

The table in the conference room held five stacks of files and papers, neatly arranged and yellow and crisp with age. Behind them sat an elderly gentleman named Ludwig Altstötter, rosy-cheeked and cherubic. Ludwig is the son of Josef Altstötter, the lead defendant in the 1947 case United States of America v. Josef Altstoetter et al., which was tried in Germany before a U.S. military tribunal. The case is famous because it appears to be the only one in which lawyers have ever been charged and convicted for committing international crimes through the performance of their legal functions. It served as the inspiration for the Oscar-winning 1961 movie Judgment at Nuremberg, whose themes are alluded to in Marcel Ophuls’s classic 1976 film on wartime atrocities, The Memory of Justice, which should be required viewing but has been lost to a broader audience. Nuremberg was, in fact, where Ludwig and I were meeting.

The Altstötter case had been prosecuted by the Allies to establish the principle that lawyers and judges in the Nazi regime bore a particular responsibility for the regime’s crimes. Sixteen lawyers appeared as defendants. The scale of the Nazi atrocities makes any factual comparison with Guantánamo absurd, a point made to me by Douglas Feith, and with which I agree. But I wasn’t interested in drawing a facile comparison between historical episodes. I wanted to know more about the underlying principle.

Josef Altstötter had the misfortune, because of his name, to be the first defendant listed among the 16. He was not the most important or the worst, although he was one of the 10 who were in fact convicted (4 were acquitted, one committed suicide, and there was one mistrial). He was a well-regarded member of society and a high-ranking lawyer. In 1943 he joined the Reich Ministry of Justice in Berlin, where he served as a Ministerialdirektor, the chief of the civil-law-and-procedure division. He became a member of the SS in 1937. The U.S. Military Tribunal found him guilty of membership in that criminal organization—with knowledge of its criminal acts—and sentenced him to five years in prison, which he served in full. He returned to legal practice in Nuremberg and died in 1979. Ludwig Altstötter had all the relevant documents, and he generously invited me to go over them with him in Nuremberg.

I took Ludwig to the most striking passage in the tribunal’s judgment. “He gave his name as a soldier and a jurist of note and so helped to cloak the shameful deeds of that organisation from the eyes of the German people.” The tribunal convicted Altstötter largely on the basis of two letters. Ludwig went to the piles on the table and pulled out fading copies of the originals. The first, dated May 3, 1944, was from the chief of the SS intelligence service to Ludwig’s father, asking him to intervene with the regional court of Vienna and stop it from ordering the transfer of Jews from the concentration camp at Theresienstadt back to Vienna to appear as witnesses in court hearings. The second letter was Altstötter’s response, a month later, to the president of the court in Vienna. “For security reasons,” he wrote, “these requests cannot be granted.” The U.S. Military Tribunal proceeded on the basis that Altstötter would have known what the concentration camps were for.


http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/05/guantanamo200805?currentPage=8
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conservdem Donating Member (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-26-10 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. Can anyone refer the matter to the state bar association for
possible discipline? I doubt such a referral has to come from the Justice Dept.
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