Democrats Planning for Health Bill Vote Next Week

[quiet.american]

Source: NYT

Democrats Planning for Health Bill Vote Next Week
By ROBERT PEAR and DAVID HERSZENHORN

WASHINGTON — The White House and Congressional leaders put Democrats on notice Friday that they would push ahead next week toward climactic votes on the health care legislation, as President Obama delayed a foreign trip and Speaker Nancy Pelosi said she hoped to complete House action before he leaves.

As early as Thursday or Friday, Democrats said, they would first pass the health care bill already approved by the Senate in December, clearing the way for Mr. Obama to sign it, and then approve a package of changes in a separate bill that the Senate would also pass by a simple majority vote.

The White House said Mr. Obama had delayed his departure for a trip to Guam, Indonesia and Australia to March 21, from Thursday, so that he could keep the pressure on Congress, shortening the trip and not taking his family along — all clear signals that he wants this seen as a make-or-break moment.

“I’m delighted that the president will be here for the passage of the bill,” Ms. Pelosi said. “It’s going to be historic. And it would not be possible without his tremendous, tremendous leadership, his persistence, his concern for the American people, always guided by his statement that we will measure our success by the progress being made by America’s working families....”


Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/health/policy/13health.html?hp

[AlinPA]

1. Does she thinks it will pass, or is this more happy talk?

[quiet.american]

2. They're not whistling Dixie. It's going to pass. Along with student loan reform, it looks like, too!

:bounce: :fistbump: :kick:

[NJmaverick]

3. I have guarded optimism that we are on the verge of a successful reform

of historic proportions.

[nyy1998]

8. +1

That's my Congress at work!!!

[Dappleganger]

4. The kids and I will be at the Capital for a visit

either the 30th or 31st (still waiting to hear back on our scheduled tour). I am sooo hoping to be able to see some of the process going on while we're there...history in the making! We're doing two days in DC then two full days in Philly (Momma's Whirlwind American History Tour on a Budget).

[pattmarty]

5. Kill the bill. Pass separate legislation for rescission, pre-existing.........

......conditions and anti-trust revocation. This bill institutionalizes a privatization of our healthcare system. There will NEVER be any GOOD fixes to this.

[Jackpine Radical]

6. I am of terribly mixed feelings about the bill.

It is likely to provide some improvements for some people, but at great cost--at the cost of institutionalizing the role of government in forcing people to pay out money to private corporations, which in turn are licensed to exploit them. Yes, mandates are necessary if a system is to work at all. But absent at least a public option, the potential for abuse--nay, the certainty of abuse--is built in. Further, I fear that passing a bill with some minimal improvements will postpone the attainment of true reform for many years. I will be very surprised if any significant fixes occur via new legislation within my lifetime.

No, I don't want those who will benefit from this bill (and there are obviously some for whom that will be true) to go without help because the bill failed. I'm just terribly saddened to see that a reform that could have been so much better, a reform that so many people wanted to be better, will end up being so minimal.

[pattmarty]

7. See above. Totally agree with what you say and basically said the same thing.

[rzoo4u2c]

10. Heath Care Must stand Constitutionally

Wait and see. Supremes may chime in before to long. Also at last count 34 states are in process to pass legislation prohibiting requirement of the mandate. It will end up in SCOTUS. Personally I don't see how this govt can force me or anyone to buy something! I do agree with reform, but this thing as it is, a nightmare. How many states does it take for a constitutional amendment 37? I Believe it is 37. Maybe someone could clairify. My fear is that if this goes south or horribly wrong, and the states
get together and pass an amendment, it could be over forever.

[rzoo4u2c]

19. Thomas Jeferson Quotes We must never forget our roots

Quotes - Thomas Jefferson



The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -Thomas Jefferson



"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist in 1764. That was 230 years ago. -Thomas Jefferson



"The constitutions of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves;
that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property and freedom
of the press." Thomas Jefferson



"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson



The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.-Thomas Jefferson



I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive.-Thomas Jefferson



Power is not alluring to pure minds.-Thomas Jefferson



Most bad government has grown out of too much government.-Thomas Jefferson



What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?-Thomas Jefferson



Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread.-Thomas Jefferson



When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.-Thomas Jefferson



Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.-Thomas Jefferson



Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.-Thomas Jefferson



I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious.-Thomas Jefferson



A free people their rights as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate.-Thomas Jefferson



The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.-Thomas Jefferson



I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.



Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases.



Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AllentownJake]

9. They don't have the votes yet if the President is spending 2 extra days in Washington

Monday it will be known if this awful bill passes or not, and whether I officially change my voter registration to independent and mail a copy to the DNC.

[groundloop]

11. How can you know how horrible the final bill will be? the House has yet to finish their fixes

Granted, the Senate bill is crap, but the fixes the House will pass and then presumeably the Senate, through reconciliation, have yet to be seen.

AND, there's always the slim sliver of hope that Rep. Grayson's medicare buy-in bill has a chance.

[AllentownJake]

12. March 18th all will be known

They won't be talking about this after the recess. If I'm not happy March 21st....I'm an independent.

[Jackpine Radical]

14. Like ripening meat, I may change color.

From blue to green.

[Mari333]

18. ditto on that

and a whole lot of people will.

[pattmarty]

20. Glad you mentioned that. I was "Green" when the Dems nominated.........

.............Kerry and went to meetings (in Arkansas, if you can believe that) and actually was on the Ar ballot as Secretary of State in Ar 2004. After that went Dem (again) and have been since. The thing that is now appealing about the Greens, is they have some kind of "party apparatus" already set up in most of the states and maybe the larger issue are extremely liberal. I am seriously going to vote for at least some (one?) this year and maybe more. It's gotta start somewhere and the Dems are what the Republicans were 50 yrs ago.

[No Elephants]

23. Very interesting comparison, pattymarty!

Fifty years ago was 1960. If you go by the way that today's Dems legislate, I think mainstreamRepublicans in 1960 may have been more liberal. It would be an interesting comparison for a historian or politcal scientist.

Thanks for the thought.

[pattmarty]

26. I saw a program (can't remember Cspan or PBS) probably 6 months........

...............ago where one of the commentators said that the last liberal President was Nixon. Interesting if you think about it a little. I am NO NIXON fan, but some of his domestic policies would definitely be considered "liberal" today. Just like the Dems USED to be for the poor, working class and middle class. Not any more. My theory is we have become a "one" party system with no one to represent the poor or working class anymore.

[No Elephants]

30. Agree on the one-party system, but, IMO, whoever said that

Nixon was the last liberal President was either a rethug or using hyperbole to try to make a point.

I lean toward rethug, though. I say that bc Nixon was not the last liberal President--Carter was, of course. And, if you are a Republican, who better to dump on liberals than Nixon, the one and only President of either Party who was forced to resign the Presidency?

In any event....

Nixon was certainly more liberal than Dummya, but, then, so was Reagan. Even Poopy was more liberal than Dummya.

Nixon was not at all liberal, compared with his immediate predecessor, Johnson; and Carter was far more liberal than Nixon. Carter granted amnesty to "draft dodgers" before he even walked down Pennsylvania Avenue.

Of course, things like this are impossible to say for certain, but I highly doubt Nixon would have done anything remotely as liberal as that. Ditto on Carter's stands on civil rights, starting when he was Governor, formation of a Department of Education or, to seek energy independence, a Department of Energy (and putting solar panels atop the White House).

I could go on about the liberal things Carter did, but I think Carter's wiki accomplishes that better than I could. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter

And that is just comparing Carter and Nixon on policies alone. If you associate things like dirty tricks, deception and general shadiness with Republicans and the opposite with liberals (as I used to), there is no contest between Nixon and Carter as far as who is more liberal. But, then, came doo Ron dee Ron dee Ron dee baba do.

While McGovern's dramatic loss shook the Democratic Party into looking at shifting right, that did not gel until Reagan's great election successes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council

Reagan's successes led to two major things:

One was a policy in the DNC to court lobbyist money: "Finally, detractors of the DLC note that the DLC has received funding from the right-wing Bradley Foundation as well as from oil companies, military contractors, and various Fortune 500 companies. However, the DNC proper has also benefited from funding by corporations like these via the Democratic Business Council." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council

The other thing birthed by Reagan's successes was the Democratic Leadership Council, a prototype of which had been considered after McGovern's loss, but rejected.

So,, after Carter, the only Presidents we've had have been Republicans or DLC types, both of which espouse PNAC ideology. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council

Meanwhile, the policies of Atwater birthed more and more polarization of the right, with the left scurrying after the right--and dragging the country with it.

So, we have indeed moved, and continue to move, toward one party--and unfortunately, that one is not the one I like.

Still, it would be interesting to compare the Nixon Administration with Clinton's and with Obama's. Of course, you'd have to compare Congresses, too.

On edit: I've been reading Nixon's wiki. Apparently, my guess in the beginning of this point was wrong. Noam Chomsky said it, BUT, he did not flat out say that Nixon was the last liberal President.

"Noam Chomsky remarked that, in many respects, Nixon was "the last liberal president".<92> Noam Chomsky remarked that, in many respects, Nixon was "the last liberal president".<92> And, based upon Nixon's wiki, I'd say that was so. But I stand by my view that Nixon was not the last liberal President.

[pattmarty]

31. He WAS using hyperbole, that was my point. Maybe I should have............

..............been more specific. The "point" is that Nixon did more "liberal" things than any Dem president since him. I like Carter now, but as a president he blew, so did Clinton. The last true "liberal" Democratic President was LBJ. Hope this clears it up.

[Yuugal]

21. green it is

[pattmarty]

17. "Ditto"

:sarcasm:

[Jackpine Radical]

13. Nancy has spoken. There sill be no public option.

That is all ye know, and all ye need to know.

As for Grayson, that's a separate bill. I wish to hell it would pass, but it won't. (Gods, if there be gods--Prove me wrong, please!)

[pattmarty]

16. Well look, all the committees and votes and amendments to both.........

...............bills and look what we have. If you really think that the reconciliation process will produce anything better you are a dreamer in the extreme. I will agree with you on the Grayson bill and hope it will get enough votes to pass somehow, but I deep down doubt it. At this point I believe we (liberals) are fucked. I personally hope the bill as it is (and if reconciliation does not make it A LOT BETTER) will not have the votes to pass. This was handled horribly right from the beginning this year and progressively got worse with the tea baggers and town halls with the Dems basically sitting on their hands and singing kumbaya. At this point I am disgusted and just want it over. So much for "change".

[No Elephants]

24. We know the Senate Bill. We also know the changes to the Senate Bill proposed by the POTUS.

We know "the President is asking House Democrats to hold hands, jump off a cliff and hope that Harry Reid catches them."

We also know that there will be mandates, but no public option, not even a lame one that kicks in years from now. And probably the monopoly exemption will continue.

[WriteDown]

15. Romney Care 2.0 here we come! And some people love Romney-care these days.

Hold on to your hats.

[No Elephants]

25. Not really People in the only place Romney-Care is in effect, elected Brown, who ran against Obama

Care.

Do the math.

P.S. FWIW, Sen. Graham is on TV (This Week) right now. He just said comparing Romney Care to Obama Care is spin,. He said that Romney Care did not cut Medicare or impose a huge up front cost on the American people.

[pattmarty]

27. You may know this, but Obama is not cutting "Medicare". What..........

........he is advocating as far as I know is cutting back on that goddamn Bush "Advantage" plan which pays a subsidy to insurance companies to make up the "difference" between the basic cost of the govt Medicare plan and the PRIVATE Advantage plan. That was part of that awful Bush Medicare drug plan. It's kind of funny, he is going to cut some of the Advantage (private plans) plan so he can give the money right back to the insurance companies with his shitty plan. If originally a "Medicare for all" plan had been put out there as the fix, they could have talked up all the points like cost for instance and savings for doctors and hospitals. They didn't want to piss off the insurance companies that is the ONLY reason for going the way he did.

[No Elephants]

29. Thanks. The "FWIW" part of my post means " I would not take Graham's word for anything."

He may be the best of a very bad lot, but he is still lower than whale poop.

[TomCADem]

28. About Time! Health Care for America Now!

K&R

http://healthcareforamericanow.org/

[harun]

32. Horrible reporting. "Seen as a make or break moment", errrr it is a make

or break moment. They always try to paint Dem's as insincere.