GOP leader's skinny-dip confession stuns Utah

[NJmaverick]

Source: AP

SALT LAKE CITY – A late-night confession by Utah's House majority leader about sitting nude in a hot tub with a minor 25 years ago has shocked this conservative state's political establishment.
Rep. Kevin Garn acknowledged the hot-tub incident on the last day of the legislative session on Thursday, saying he had paid the now 40-year-old woman $150,000 to keep quiet about the episode when he ran for Congress in 2002.
In recent days, Cheryl Maher began telling her story to local news media about being naked with Garn when she was 15. Garn is more than 14 years older than Maher.
Garn said that violated a confidentiality agreement he had with the woman and he's tired of living in fear.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100312/ap_on_re_us/us_majority_leader_confession;_ylt=AuF5INFO7FtMNhn7kBAQNgys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTQxbTdtdGUxBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwMzEyL3VzX21ham9yaXR5X2xlYWRlcl9jb25mZXNzaW9uBGNjb2RlA21vc3Rwb3B1bGFyBGNwb3MDNgRwb3MDMwRwdANob21lX

[Liberal_in_LA]

1. crazy story. Sounds like the woman was black mailing

[Warpy]

5. Yeah, he was stupid but she committed the crime

Some 15 year olds can act pretty inappropriate around older guys just to prove they can "get" them. For some of them, having a guy in his 20s hanging around is a status symbol. Likewise, the old guys think with the wrong head and allow their pictures to be taken in circumstances they'd do better to avoid like the plague.

This sounds like a number of years of blackmail. Unless she's alleging an affair, it's just stupid behavior on both sides and needs to be forgotten.

However, his days of parading his superior family values at the rest of us are over.

[GodlessBiker]

8. Exposing yourself to a minor in a hot tub isn't a crime?

[paulsby]

9. generally speaking, no it is not a crime

not in my jurisdiction

depends on circumstances, but generally speaking... no

[Xithras]

11. No, actually, it's not.

If it's consensual, non-sexual, and her parents approve. How do you think nudist colonies and nude beaches get away with it?

It doesn't cross the threshold and become a crime unless there is an attempt or intention to take it further and turn it into sexual contact. Being nude, by itself, isn't legal grounds for charges.

Without knowing the rest of the details of the tub incident, it's impossible to know if a crime was committed.

[paulsby]

13. generally true

and of course note that laws vary by jurisdiction too as regards nudity etc.

of course most of those laws apply in "public places" which was clearly not the case here.

in oregon, for example, public nudity isn't even illegal (at least that is what i read )

like walking down a street butt nekkid.

i used to be a lifeguard at a nude beach fwiw.


it was a difficult job :)

[Xithras]

18. It's an indisputably stupid thing to do though.

I'm a 35 year old guy who tends to be very "open" about sexual issues, so the idea of a naked 15 year old climbing into a hot tub with me doesn't really tweak me much one way or the other. I don't find 15 year old girls sexually attractive and wouldn't be turned on by it (I have a 16 year old daughter, and have a hard time imagining girls the same age as my "baby" as sexual creatures), but on the other hand I think that our societal aversion to anything even remotely sexual (like nudity) is rather perverse and I wouldn't freak out over it either.

That said, it's just asking for trouble. All it would take was a single accusation of impropriety, and you're in jail for 5 years and on the sex offender list for life. Would ANYONE believe a guy who said, "Yeah, we got naked in my hot tub, but I didn't want to touch her!" if the girl later claimed that he'd come on to her or worse...actually attempted to touch her? It wouldn't matter that he hadn't actually done so, because nobody in our society would give him even the slightest benefit of the doubt in those circumstances.

Unless you're at a nudist beach with 50 witnesses standing around to vouch for you, it's an idotic thing to do. Not illegal, but terminally stupid. I'm all for sexual openness, but common sense has to be applied sometimes.

By the way, the walking down the street nekkid thing is a matter of consent. It's illegal because you are subjecting people to your nudity without their consent, which is legally forbidden in most states (I know about Oregon though, as much of my family lives there!) Nude beaches, parties, camps, and even romps in the hottub are legal because there is an assumption that everyone present is a willing participant. If a 15 year old girl wants to participate, and her parents are OK with it, it's never illegal unless it becomes sexual.

[paulsby]

40. great post

and i totally agree. i certainly don't think it's SMART to do what this guy did. just saying it likely was not legal

also, fwiw, in some states sex with the 15 yr old would have been legal.

when i was a cop in hawaii, the age of consent was 14

[bertman]

25. "it was a difficult job".

The question is "was it a hard job?"

:evilgrin:

[paulsby]

41. *i* had to be clothed

so that was scrupulously kept to myself

:)

[Warpy]

12. Context is everything

and hot tubs are frequently family affairs with everybody naked.

It's quite a different thing from flashing kids in the schoolyard.

[Mithreal]

23. Can kinda see the semantics and disgreement over a actual crime

But still is pretty funny reading the rationalizations.

What if he was blind and gay, would it be alright then?

:spank:

[SpiralHawk]

24. He's not blind or gay, but a republicon

And so he republicon colleagues could give him a standing O.

As usual.

The key republicon family value is hypocrisy.

[Mithreal]

28. +1 You said it.

[opihimoimoi]

50. Yep, The Fam Val Party fails to qualy once more...piling on the hypoc level...surreal

[Honeycombe8]

39. Yes, it is. It's called, what..."indecent exposure," "contributing to the delinquency...

of a minor," "child abuse," etc.?

Any time a grown man exposes his genitals to a minor (or does any other lude act), he commits a crime.

[ButterflyBlood]

49. Second sentence is outright false

It's not a crime if it happens at a truth or dare game between 17 and 18 year olds certainly, and it doesn't appear to be one here. Consensual and non-sexual. Inappropriate yes, but it seems trivial to me to bug a man over something that happened 25 years ago in his 20s. Everyone has done stupid things at that age.

[joeybee12]

2. Wait, he made a confidentilaity agreement with a 15-year-old????

After he sits in a hot tub with her and is chagrined that what a 15-YEAR-OLD agreed to is not being kept???


This guy is beyond fucked up.

[louis-t]

4. Confidentiality agreement with a minor is not enforceable.

She was a minor.

[maxsolomon]

7. she wasn't 15 when she made the agreement.

she's 40 now, the agreement was in 2002, 8 years ago. she was 32. the incident was 25 years ago, in 1985.

money not well spent.

[DeSwiss]

10. "he had paid the now 40-year-old woman $150,000 to keep quiet about the episode in 2002....."

In 2002 she would have been 32.

- Reading is fundamental.....

[mediaman007]

3. I'll bet he was all over Clinton and the 22 year old intern!

[Zambero]

6. O.K. his 15 minutes of shame are now expired!

Let's get back to Massa coverage 24/7!
:sarcasm:

[Submariner]

14. "Big Love"

I just love the holier-than-thou Utah side shows. :rofl:

[thereismore]

15. Is he a Mormon? nt

[kestrel91316]

37. A Garn? From Layton? Is the pope catholic?? (you have to know UT to get it)

[JBoy]

16. Surprise, there's a church angle to this:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700016074/Cheryl-Maher-says-Kevin-Garn-lied-about-hot-tub-contact.html

City Weekly reported on Friday that Cheryl Maher told it that Garn — who is now the Utah House minority leader — is lying when he denied any touching or intercourse in that tub when she was just 15 years old and he was 28 and married.

Maher was hesitant to give her own version of events when she spoke to City Weekly but said, "Let's just say this. He really loves to massage." She added that Garn had been her LDS Sunday School teacher years before the incident and was her employer at the time it occurred in 1985. "I was in love with him," she said.

[denverbill]

19. The fact that he was 'in a position of trust' should make it a crime.

Doesn't matter that she was 'in love' with him.

A 28 year old touching a naked 15 year old? Plus he was her boss?

I hope all those GOP'ers patting him on the back right now feel the same when their 15 year old daughters start getting naked with 28 year old men.

[defendandprotect]

20. Ah, Mormon . .. Sunday School teacher!! hmm......................

[Fool Count]

43. The most incredible part of this story -

GOP is a minority party in Utah House? Really?

[Mithreal]

17. Thanks for posting this. The GOP is hilarious. And Utah no less, double wow.

[zbdent]

21. so ... it's "shocking" in Utah ... but the state legislature gave him a

standing ovation.

link:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35831001/ns/politics-more_politics/?GT1=43001

albeit, for "being honest" ... I wonder if they would have been this kind to a Dem?

Another weird aspect of it:

"While this payment felt like extortion, I also felt like I should take her word that the money would help her heal. She agreed to keep this 25-year-old incident confidential. Now that this issue is coming up again, it is apparent to me that this payment was also a mistake," Garn said.

"Although we did not have any sexual contact, it was still clearly inappropriate — and it was my fault," Garn said.

- - - - - - -

uh ... if nothing was wrong, if you didn't hurt her ... why do you think she needed to "heal"? (Side note: GOP-think ... money heals??? Isn't the usual mantra of Repugs that people do this just for the money?)

[Mithreal]

22. +1 should come with a warning for freepets

[hayu_lol]

31. I'm shocked I tell ya, shocked...

at the same time wondering how many other 15 year olds shared the hot tub and got a massage from this Mormon Sunday School teacher?

What he should have done at the time was to have married the chick: why, he could have taken hot tub excursions with both wives.

[Bette Noir]

35. LDS gave up polygamy long ago, in order to get statehood for Utah.

You're thinking FLDS.

[AlbertCat]

26. Side note: GOP-think ... money heals???

Don't forget "If no one finds out, it's OK"

[Mithreal]

32. If they do find out, it's OK too.

These folks are shameless and brazen.

Talking to a union organizer today, he reminded me, if Dems aren't right on working people's issues, the people he represents will vote on social issues. Doesn't matter how hypocritical Regressives are.

[penndragon69]

27. Christian family values in action !

Just what you expect from the family values crowd.

On the other hand, if you were in Japan in previous decades,
it was not uncommon for the entire family to bath and soak together
in a large pool, sometimes even with others from the neighborhood
in there with them. It was simply a family bonding experience.

[bertman]

29. Regardless of the morality or immorality of Rep. Garn's hot tub episode, we must look at the

$150,000 as a shrewd investment.

He was able to continue in office for another 8 years. That's a measly $18,750 per year to keep the woman quiet and allow him to "serve" the people of Utah. I'm guessing that Rep. Garn made a LOT more than $150,000 by virtue of his position in the legislature over that 8 year period.

I'm pretty sure that's why he got the standing ovation. Aside from the fact that all those other Utah legislators were impressed by his prowess in getting a 15-year old hottie into the hot tub with him.

Personally, I'm starting to really enjoy this SCANDALFEST that we are being treated to by both political parties. In one week we've gotten the Massa meltdown, the Garn revelations, and the Conyers conviction. I can hardly wait for next week.

:wow:

[David Zephyr]

30. Mormon Morals.

A pillar in their community.

[benld74]

33. 29 yr old with a 14 yr old?

[benld74]

34. Scratch that- a 29 YR OLD WITH A 15 YR OLD,,, That was called something when I was growing up,,,

[DallasNE]

36. This Is Worse Than It Looks

First, this 15 year old girl was an employee of Garn. So not only is this sexual harassment, she was well under age plus it is not like a stranger that is 15, claiming to be 18. This is about as sleezy as it gets.

Lastly, is Garn related to former Senator Jake Garn (R-UT).

[kestrel91316]

38. Garn + Utah = related. Just like everybody in UT and NV with MY last name is related.

[TheMadMonk]

42. No what is worse than it looks is the sheer determination of some...

...that "bad" things must have happened.

So far we have only the one established fact: He (at 28) and a fifteen year old were naked in the same hot tub at the same time.

And a little inuendo from the woman involved: "Let's just say this. He really loves to massage." nudge, nudge. Wink wink. Say no more. Say no more.

If she has more to say, then why isn't she saying it? If she simply wanted revenge/rough (media) justice for an abuser then it best behooves her to simply come out and say exactly what happened. Either in a formal deposition, or a public statement, and dare him to call her on it.

Somehow or other, I doubt it very much that in 2002, he wrote out a list of all the things he'd done that might come back to bite him on the arse during a bid for congress and then sent out his bully boys with wads of cash to buy off anyone and everyone who might be in possession of a little dirt. I think that the more likely scenario is that in 2002 she came to him and reminisced: "Remember when...."

And now, by releasing scraps of inuendo a little at a time, it look much more like she is setting up to sell her story, than obtain justice for any crime that might be have committed against her twenty five years ago. So far there have been no accusations of criminal wrong doing, just one minimal fact, and an inuendo calculated to get imaginations working ovetime.

[DallasNE]

44. Everybody Is Entitled To Their Own Opinion

But a Google on her name shows much more.

http://www.deseretnews­.com/article/700016074/Cheryl-­Maher-says-Kevin-Garn-lied-abo­ut-hot-tub-contact.html

Yes, it is still he said, she said and her blackmail shines her in a bad light but her story is more credible than his one-night stand where nothing happened.

[Mithreal]

45. He said he paid the woman, Cheryl Maher, now 40, $150,000

Is that not also a fact?

Care to explain how a jury might see that?

I get it, he deserves a defense, but not seeing much defense from you of the woman. Odd that, don't you think?

[TheMadMonk]

46. Yes a fact. Paid when Maher was in her thirties.

If he did in fact have illegal contact with her as a minor, then her taking money to maintain her silence would itself be a felony.

And I find this from the article just a little strange. "She said when she found that Garn was running for Congress in 2002, she contacted the press to tell what had happened — and Garn contacted her."

She went to the press. The press (presumably) contacted him. He paid her off. She went away and the press went away too?

The man is a political nothing (relatively speaking). Did the press (and party) really covered his arse to that degree?

Did it really happen as she claims in that order? Or as he claims? That she came to him and asked for money in return for silence.

Care to explain why she doesn't appear to want this matter before a jury, and instead wants trial by media, where the bloke has zero chance of mounting a defence.

Yes the bloke might be a total sleaze. What went on in that hot tub was almost certainly morally questionable at best.

However, he deserves a defence, and Maher's tactics have all but ensured that he won't get it.

Given that she doesn't want this case to advance to a forum where her claims could be put to the test, I do believe it unlikely that his actions crossed the line to outright illegality.

[Mithreal]

47. That you find so many justifications to defend the "bloke" is somewhat disturbing

If only you expended a little effort on the woman.

[TheMadMonk]

51. Exactly what justifications have I advanced?

I said his actions were in all probabilty morally questionable at best.

I have all the sympathy in the world for true victims, but almost none at all for those who make a career out of their victimisation.

Her behaviour is what sugests to me that he didn't cross the uncrossable line and turn his moral transgression into a felony. She appears to have taken great care not to make any claims that could be actionable against her, while at the same time doing her best to destroy his reputation. She has not accused him of any crime, but has strongly insinuated that he "did things" to her.

She profited once from the incident when she took (possibly having asked for it) hush money. And seems to be trying to profit again by convincing the media to buy her story.


I defend him because he is as deserving of defence, as the poor black kid fitted up with a "clean" weapon. If he is gulity, let him be found so in a court of law. Not the court of public opinion where no real defence is possible.

I don't defend her, because reading articles on this case, gives me the strong impression that she is a proffesional victim, constantly blaming others and other things for the things that have gone wrong with her life.

[ButterflyBlood]

48. 25 years ago?

Based on reading the article, this was inappropriate, yes. But it wasn't even a crime, much less one with a statute of limitations over 25 years. Move on.