MEXICO UNDER SIEGE In Mexico, 13 killed in Acapulco area, 11 others elsewhere in Guerrero

[bemildred]

Source: LA Times

At least 13 people were killed Saturday, some of them beheaded, around the popular beach resort of Acapulco, just as foreign visitors have begun arriving for spring break.

Elsewhere in the Guerrero state where Acapulco is located, 11 other people, including soldiers and suspected traffickers, were killed, authorities said.

The dead in Acapulco included five police officers, authorities said, who were ambushed while on patrol on the city's outskirts about 2 a.m.

Over the next four hours, the bullet-riddled bodies of eight men were discovered in three locations, police said. Four had been beheaded, in the style typical of drug traffickers who have been at war with one another and with government forces for three years.


Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-fg-mexico-acapulco14-2010mar14,0,5589087.story?track=rss

[SteveM]

1. Prohibition in action. In the near future, that violence will creep north...

The Mexican gangs already operate in well over 200 U.S. cities, and they WILL enforce their trade territories. The only thing that will keep them from duplicating (for a while) what is happening in Mexico is a well-armed civilian population, and the institutionalization of gang territories and business practices. Much like the "crack wars" some 20 years ago, the trade will mature and entrench deeply, thus obviating the need for wholesale slaughter (though random murders will continue as a gang initiation process, and for wannabees to get "juice").

Of course, the U.S. could legalize and regulate.

Yeah.

Right.

[Flaneur]

6. Do you really think the cartels give a shit about a "well armed civilian population"?

They're shooting it out with Mexican soldiers on a daily basis. That's pure gun nut propaganda. Nice try, though.

I happened to be at a conference yesterday with a panel consisting of an El Paso city councilman, a UTEP scholar, and a Mexican sociologist from Tamaulipas (Reynosa, Matamoros). I asked them why the violence had not spread north of the river. The answer basically came down to: It's a business decision. It's bad business to be killing people in the US because it will piss off the gringos. That makes sense.

Ciudad Juarez is the murder capital of Mexico, if not the world, right now. Yet, just across the river in El Paso, a city of about half a million, there were only 15 murders last year. I don't think it's because El Pasoans are well-armed.

[louis-t]

8. You're right, they will choose the path of least resistance.

[timo]

38. hmmm

I bet there are parts of Africa that go waaayyy beyond the juarez body count, its just not as newsworthy right now, and there are no journalist reporting it.

[axollot]

10. It has been creeping north from South and Central America for years now.

This is really becoming a blood bath that made Colombia infamous. The private contractors concern me too. Way to much money and power to be had amongst the testosterone crowd.
YUK.

Cheers
Sandy

[a la izquierda]

20. ah, christ

i don't even know what to say anymore.

[scentopine]

2. like the war on terror, the war on drugs fueling demand -nt

[1776Forever]

3. These terrorists drug traffickers are next door and in some cases literally "next door"!

The time to address this is now! We should take control of this "war" next door even more so then we all ready are. I know the border patrol and other law enforcement are trying but I also know that the "private" military is also involved in this, so what are we the taxpayers getting for our money?

U.S. security firms vie for Mexican drug war work
Mica Rosenberg
MEXICO CITY
Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:37pm

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE56F7B820090716

Thu, Jul 16 2009MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - As Mexico battles to keep a lid on raging drug war violence, U.S. companies are fighting over millions of dollars in contracts for military equipment and training under a long-promised U.S. aid package.

......The economic downturn prompted the U.S. Congress to reduce the 2009 tranche of the Merida plan by 30 percent, approving just $300 million. In June, however, Obama signed a supplemental bill to channel an extra $420 million to Mexico, where drug killings are skyrocketing to unprecedented levels.

Five Bell helicopters that cost more than $50 million are the first major batch of equipment to be bought under the package but they have yet to land in Mexico.

Other big contracts will go to scanners to detect traces of drugs, secure communications systems and forensic tools.

A growing trend toward military outsourcing by the U.S. government has come under scrutiny in Iraq after Blackwater security guards were accused of killing civilians and a former Halliburton subsidiary was accused of overcharging by millions.

Some of the largest private security firms like Dyncorp, Northrop Grumman Corp and Blackwater, which has changed its name to Xe Services, declined to say if they were bidding on Merida contracts for equipment or training.

(more at link)

............

Why aren't we hearing about this more?
:rant:

[a la izquierda]

21. what do you suppose we do? invade?

that'll end well.

[1776Forever]

22. Why aren't they called terrorists? Mexico killings: Gunmen kill 3 with ties to US consulate

Mexico killings: Gunmen kill 3 with ties to US consulate
By Sara Miller Llana Staff writer / March 14, 2010
Mexico City

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2010/0314/Mexico-killings-Gunmen-kill-3-with-ties-to-US-consulate

Gunmen in the violence-plagued border city of Cuidad Juarez killed two Americans and one Mexican with ties to the US consulate on Saturday. Authorities are still trying to assess the motive for the Mexico killings.

Two Americans and a Mexican citizen affiliated with the United States consulate in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, were shot to death Saturday in this violent border town, across from El Paso, Texas.

The Mexico killings drew immediate criticism from the White House.

National Security Council spokesperson Mike Hammer said in a statement Sunday that President Obama “is deeply saddened and outraged by the news of the brutal murders of three people associated with the United States Consulate General in Ciudad Juárez, Mexico, including a US citizen employee, her US citizen husband, and the husband of a Mexican citizen

.........

I think it is time to sit down with the Mexican Government and tell them we have had enough and really do something in the future to stop this! With the richest man in the world from Mexico where is the money going? This needs more reporting on!

[a la izquierda]

23. why don't you calm down for a split second...

carlos slim is. a. private. citizen. do you understand that concept? he is the richest man in the world because mexico allwed him to have a monopoly in the telecom industry. he is a self-made man, though some of his practices are probably unethical.
you should probably educate yourself before you go spouting off a bunch of nonsense. one second you're talking about calling cartels terrorists (which they are), the next minute you're complaining about carlos slim-WHO ISN'T A CARTEL LEADER!!!!

[1776Forever]

27. Since you are such an expert what has Carlos Slim done for his country? I'm interested in knowing.

And you hit it on the head when you said "Mexico's government allowed him to be the monopoly he is." Oh and don't be condescending to me - I assure you I have done a lot of educating myself in the past. I suggest you calm down and ask yourself just what Mexico has done for its own.

I took a Mexican immigrant in 1978 to be married to my step-daughter in VA so they could get married and then took them to Detroit to get his paperwork. Why has it been so long and Mexico is still not on the right track and made it a better country where people want to stay in? You tell me since you know so much.

[a la izquierda]

30. I'm graduating with my PhD in Mexican history in less...

than a year. I am more of an expert than most on here. I have very little tolerance for hysterics and inklings of invasion such as yours. I don't like anecdotal stories about an immigrant you took in 32 years ago. Anecdotes are precisely that. One should also be wary of expat/exile communities-they always have an agenda (want to learn more about that-go look up the history of the French Intervention). I have a good friend from Venezuela, but we never talk about Chavez.

Since I could write a PhD dissertation on Mexico and its problems, I'm not even going to start. I'll just give you some themes. Mexico is a large, complicated country; it is corrupt, like the US. Mexico has a wealthy elite that cares only for itself, like the US. Mexico has been deeply, and I mean deeply, affected by colonial powers (the US being one of them, the most powerful and the most recent). At the same time, Mexico has healthcare available to more of its citizens (albeit not a great system of care, poor can at least see someone). You think it's so simple? I assure you, it's not. I live there for about half of every year. So yeah, I kind of know what I'm talking about.

Carlos Slim, by the way, is a philanthropist. I don't care for the rich-bashing that some on DU feel the need to throw out there every damn day. My uncle is a multi-millionaire...and a hardcore liberal.

[1776Forever]

31. I can agree on most of what you posted but I would think you could also learn some civility.

You act as though everyone who has an opinion is not worthy of it. I think you misread my post, I said nothing about invading! Duh! You obviously are a very hard headed individual and I think you need to calm down and take people more on a human level then jumping to conclusions! My 2 sons, husband, father and many others in my family have and are fighting for the country I love and I would never want to send them to Mexico.

[a la izquierda]

46. Exactly what does the following quote you wrote mean?

"The time to address this is now! We should take control of this "war" next door even more so then we all ready are. I know the border patrol and other law enforcement are trying but I also know that the "private" military is also involved in this, so what are we the taxpayers getting for our money?"

I'm not sure what you mean by this, it's not an outright call to invade I guess...but it's not a leap to think that you're calling for some sort of invasion.
I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you, especially when you insult my civility. It's a discussion board, if you don't like it, go talk to Miss Manners. I'm unapologetically fierce about Mexico and Latin America. They've been jerked around by colonial powers for more than a century.

[1776Forever]

47. It means that we the American people need to demand more from Mexico and the private military that

is there now! What IS being done? I think we should know more about this and you as a person with ties to Mexico should demand that also! If anyone should be concerned it should be the people of Mexico.

As this article says:


Pressure Rises For More U.S. Aid In Mexico Drug War
by Jamie Tarabay

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124731385

March 16, 2010 Thousands of Mexican troops and hundreds of millions of dollars in U.S. aid have failed to stem the drug wars plaguing Mexico's northern border region.

............

Someone needs to tell us where this money is going. I think we all agree that this is not working and the strategy must change. I don't have the answer but I will tell you if it takes putting walls around cities maybe that is what is needed. It is time to take responsibility that is all I am saying. No invasion from the U.S. This needs to be handled by the Mexican Government.

[WriteDown]

33. Interesting.

You can probably get a good paying job with ICE when you are finished.

Sounds like your uncle is an interesting guy. How did he make his money?

[a la izquierda]

45. He's a vice-president of something or other with New York life...

and invested very, very well. He's an incredibly intelligent guy. He's retiring soon, and he's going to set up a commuter advocate group for NJ Transit train riders (he'll head it as a volunteer). He's helped pay for my graduate studies, by giving me stipends here and there when I need research money.

[timo]

39. i dont get it??

did your step daughter marry the guy just so he could get his papers?
if thats the case thats fraud a major no no you just admitted to.


and second its carlos slims money, he made the deals, he did the work, he took the risk, he can do with it as he see's fit, who are YOU to judge him or anybody?

[1776Forever]

48. My step-daughter had 4 children by this man at that time! I took them to VA to get married to

make sure the children had a father that could stay in the U.S. without being deported. We then went to Detroit and got his papers. There was nothing that was done that wasn't legal.

AND I am NOT judging Mr. Slim. I am asking why Mexico is such a poor country and if he had furnished jobs or built up the country with his billions! Just asking!

[timo]

49. gotcha

just wasnt real clear in the first post, mexico has a long history of graft and corruption predating slim by a looooonnnnngggg time, I think from what little I have read about him he is something of a philanthropist, http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2007/0326/134.html here is an article from forbes, read the WHOLE article. he does in fact employ quite a few people, and he has recently expanded his charitable foundation.

even carlos slim cannot save mexico.

[1776Forever]

52. The article was interesting. I didn't know he was that old. Hope he can leave his money to someone

who can help Mexico. I think that Mexican people are very good people. I am praying this works out in the end and the quality of life will continue to improve.

[timo]

53. i agree

I have traveled and worked in Mexico since I was just out of high school, and overall a great culture, but corrruption and apathy have become the way of life, coupled with the desire for easy riches and a eversteady market for drugs and labor it has truly tainted a great country!!

[timo]

41. tones of noriega?

panama???

[paulsby]

4. foreign visitors?

WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD BE VISITING MEXICO NOW?

seriously. it's not like it's not well publicized that it's a murderous hellhole right now

geeez

[Faygo Kid]

5. OK, this time, I agree with you.

Not so on my thread, but Mexico is just tragic right now. This hyperviolence must be stopped.

[Flaneur]

7. That's ridiculous.

The violence in Mexico is pretty geographically limited.

The violence in Mexico is, for the most part, limited to participants in the cartel wars and cops and soldiers. But not entirely, and there's always those darned stray bullets.

I just spent a week in Mexico City. You would not have a clue that Mexico is a "murderous hellhole" unless you read the newspapers, with their daily bodycounts. Life goes on in the hemisphere's largest city.

I lived in Washington, DC, in the early 1990s, when the city was at its nadir and the murder rate was over one a day. You could have called DC a "murderous hellhole," but if somebody got shot two blocks away, you didn't even know it until you watched the evening news. Granted, it is a trifle deadlier in Juarez and a few other places these days, but to broadbrush an entire country as a "murderous hellhole" based on organized crime killings is unjustifiable hyperbole.

[paulsby]

12. there is nothing structurally limiting the violence

geographically speaking.

it was only a matter of time and opportunity

i say this as somebody that has traveled nicaragua, panama, etc. w/o any problems.

knowing the situation was as it is, i would not even consider visiting mexico now - and that include(d) acapulco

i say this as somebody who has visited mexico AT LEAST 2 dozen times and central america about 1/2 dozen times.

[timo]

40. ??

I would gander to say that alot of Mexico is safe, but its getting to those spots thats a real bitch, I wouldnt hesitate to go to say, el centauro tamaulipas right now, but driving thru reynosa, or rio bravo, or victoria, or gonzales to get there wouldnt be real high up on my list of towns to visit.
I doubt the cartels have much interest in gomez farias or el cielo, but travelling the highways right now is just not safe!

[Paladin]

9. I've Got Plenty Of Acquaintances Who've Vacationed In Mexico Recently.

All of them had pleasant, crime-free times at seaside resort areas, everybody returned in one piece. Try not confusing the whole country with Ciudad Juarez, if you can manage that......

[paulsby]

13. that's the risk they were willing to take

i wouldn't.

and i say that as somebody that has traveled in nicaragua, panama and all over mexico

[axollot]

11. Hello! Spring Break in Acapulco! Seriously these guys arent going after tourists -

unless they are in the way.

20+ yrs ago I would go to Baja all the time as a teen with friends. I know it's not the same in 2010 as then but Acapulco is legendary!

Cheers
Sandy

[paulsby]

14. we aren't talking 20 yrs ago

i've been to mexico AT LEAST two dozen times, as well as nicaragua, panama, etc

that was then. this is now

hth

[Flaneur]

15. You're hyperventilating. But if you don't want to go to Mexico, it's your call.

There's probably 100,000 American spring breakers in Cancun as I type these words.

And 50,000 American retirees in San Miguel de Allende, not to mention all the thousands hanging out around Lake Ayala.

I, too, have travelled frequently to Mexico, as well as the Central American countries. I don't feel any less safe in Mexico now than ever before, and significantly safer than in Guatemala, El Salvador, and Nicaragua in the 1980s.

The situation on the border--Juarez, Nuevo Laredo, Reynosa, Matamoros--is certainly hairier than elsewhere in the country. (As I said above, it's barely a blip on the radar for most people in Mexico City) But even in those border towns, the violence is generally among the cartels or between the cartels and the cops and the army. Not always, but generally. Still, I spent a week in Juarez last year and a week in Reynosa and Matamoros in 2008, when things were really hopping there, and I'm still here.

But slandering an entire country because of limited organized crime violence is doing Mexico a disservice.

In the 1980s, when I was traveling frequently to Central America, friends would ask me if I wasn't scared. My reply? "At least I'm not going to Houston."

[axollot]

16. I'd like to take a cruise sometime in the next 12 months and would LOVE to

go to a part of Mexico I've not spent time in - the east coast and the islands. Living in FL as I do now (Aussie/American) cruises are pretty cheap and we are 10yrs over due for a holiday *sigh*.

Cheers
Sandy

[timo]

42. winter tourists

Winter Texans flock across daily to the town of Las flores aka nuevo progresso tamps. there has only been one bombing and a shootout there!!
no civillian casualties.

[fishwax]

50. I wouldn't hesitate to visit Mexico now

I might hesitate to visit Acapulco, where there has been quite a bit of violence of late (and where nobody would be surprised to find drug related violence), but that's at least partly because that heavy tourist center isn't quite might scene. I wouldn't shy away from Mexico generally.

[DeSwiss]

17. Right.

[Ex Lurker]

18. the cartels should take note

this is what got Pablo Escobar killed. He got so big and so dangerous, Colombia decided they had to take him out. I expect the same thing to happen in Mexico. Governments are nothing if not self preservationist.

Note: I'm against prohibition, too, but that's not going away any time soon. Meanwhile, these thugs are a danger to everyone.

[1776Forever]

29. Agree n/t

:thumbsup:

[Flaneur]

32. The Mexican government has been killing cartel leaders for years.

It only seems to increase the levels of violence. Knock off a big honcho, and there are five guys ready to fight to the death to take his place. A lot of the violence is precisely that kind of battling.

[timo]

43. true

thats sorta where the zetas came from, a cartel head gets killed, the new guy hires the zetas as protection, didnt take long for the zetas to decide they could go solo.

[lib2DaBone]

19. Military profits, Prison Profits, Prohibition.. Al Cappone would be proud...

[Jennicut]

24. The decriminalization of drug users and the legalizing of certain drugs needs to be addressed

eventually. There is just no other way to do it. Fighting it won't stop it. Too much money is involved. The cartels are not fighting a religious war, which is near impossible to fight against, it is for purely financial reasons.
The biggest issue is whether Americans would support a President who would legalize not just marijuana (which has a lot of support already) but also cocaine. That is way more controversial but is the other main drug coming through the border. For our addictions, Mexico is having a lot of violence. Legalizing it in the US would not stop the violence all together but it would help. I doubt very much either drug will be legalized any time soon. But decriminalization could start with marijuana and evetually lead to making it legal if more and more public support turns into support in Congress. We have wasted money, years, and room in jail for the ridiculousness of people using drugs. It would help some major problems on our end too.

[WriteDown]

25. That will only work if the legal drugs are cheaper than the legal drugs. nt

[Jennicut]

26. Yes.

The rates of what the drugs would be is an issue. Providing it at the cost where whomever makes the most money while selling it to the most people for the right price is who would benefit. It would not address all the problems. Just a start. The thing is, the thinking on drugs is so entrenched in US politicians that it just won't happen anytime soon. Repubs especially would have a heart attack and many many Dems would too.

[daleo]

28. Legal drugs can't be cheaper than legal drugs

It's a logical impossibility.

[WriteDown]

34. You got me there.

:)

[chrisa]

36. It's the seller that matters.

The drugs become illegal when it's an unauthorized seller. It's the same as if a terrorist organization was selling cars to finance suicide bombing campaigns.

Luckily, most people would not go the illegal route if drugs were available legally. It's not worth it. It would be like buying a TV cheaper that you knew was stolen. Nobody would risk it.

[chrisa]

35. I wonder how many cartel leaders and representatives

Have had an "accident" curtosy of the US or Mexican armies. Gotta watch out for those pesky ledges and 'random' acts of street violence.

In all seriousness, all Mexican cartel members (who are also active in kidnapping and human trafficking), and anyone on their payroll all deserve to take one to the face.

[Flaneur]

37. There is a rising number of human rights complaints against the Mexican military.

Nearly 2,000 last year, if I recall correctly. Alleging everything from unwarranted entries to homes and businesses to rape, torture, "disappearances," and extra-judicial executions.

I heard fromer Mexican Foreign Minister Jorge Castaneda tell an audience of hundreds that the Mexican military was just executing suspected cartel members, the generals were bragging about it to each other in bars.

Are you advocating more extra-judicial executions?

[xsquid]

51. I was in Juarez last July and every single persom

I spoke to said the military is as bad as the narcos. The military was mainly riding around in trucks, then actually doing something after someone was killed. Mostly harassing people in the area after the bg's were long gone. A guy was killed in dennys right next to us, everyone said stay far away from the military (which we already knew).

[WinkyDink]

54. Sounds like New Orleans and Blackwater thugs.

[xsquid]

55. Yes it does, only much worse in mexico. nt

[timo]

44. even the cooks?

maids too? gardeners? stable boys? mechanics??