Toyota used its 'game plan' to escape a major early recall (07)

[Omaha Steve]

Source: Washington Post

By Peter Whoriskey

As congressional investigators learned last month, Toyota Motor lobbyists claimed last year to have saved the company $100 million by fending off a 2007 federal investigation into unintended acceleration.

Toyota and agency officials dismissed the claim as an idle boast.

But a closer look at the 2007 investigation, revealed in agency records and internal Toyota e-mails, shows that after federal investigators at the time diagnosed a number of potential dangers in Toyota cars and trucks, the automaker resisted the findings and in the end escaped a broad recall that could have cost millions of dollars.

Investigators with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration told Toyota in 2007 that the design of Toyota pedals or floor pans could allow floor mats to entrap the accelerator. They saw a problem in Camrys, Priuses, Avalons and Lexus ES350s. Moreover, they believed that any type of floor mat could pose a danger.



Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/18/AR2010031805376.html

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Photo gallery at link as well as more good info.



Toyota answers Congress's questions about worldwide vehicle recall
Toyota executives, including President Akio Toyoda, are appearing on Capitol Hill to discuss mechanical flaws in their vehicles and how they addressed the problems. Industry analysts say Toyota sacrificed quality for global growth.
» LAUNCH PHOTO GALLERY

[Rhiannon12866]

1. K&R. Check this out, too: Toyota's 'black box' mystery

These data devices could divulge key information about Toyota crashes, but the automaker isn't sharing it.

SOUTHLAKE, TEXAS - Toyota has for years blocked access to data stored in devices similar to airline "black boxes" that could explain crashes blamed on sudden unintended acceleration, according to an Associated Press review of lawsuits nationwide and interviews with auto crash experts.

The AP investigation found that Toyota has been inconsistent -- and sometimes even contradictory -- in revealing exactly what the devices record and don't record, including critical data about whether the brake or accelerator pedals were depressed at the time of a crash.

By contrast, most other automakers routinely allow much more open access to information from their event data recorders, commonly known as EDRs.

AP also found that Toyota:

•Has frequently refused to provide key information sought by crash victims and survivors.

•Uses proprietary software in its EDRs. Until this week, there was only a single laptop in the United States containing the software needed to read the data following a crash.

•In some lawsuits, when pressed to provide recorder information, Toyota either settled or provided printouts with the key columns blank.

http://www.startribune.com/business/86458492.html

[liberal N proud]

2. The secrecy and denial through this whole thing is nothing short of arrogance

They think they are above reporting and following the rules everyone else has to play by.

For that alone, they need to be knocked down a peg or three. The playing field at least needs to be on the level.

[Demeter]

7. It Is the Japanese Way

and who taught them? the US.

[Mopar151]

6. This is what I've been posting about - OBD-2

On Board Diagnosis, 2nd generation. Data from most other makes is readily accessible, thru several commercially available diagnostic tools.
I was discussing this last night with a friend - who is a degreed computer engineer, programs giant, hugely complex machinery for a living, owns a Toyota, and drives a Troyer Modified is hillclimbs. We were lining up pieces and parts for his engine - replacing the block with a Dart SHP.
In his opinion, Toyota went it alone on developing their control software, and failed in a couple critical areas. First, they did not plan in enough "fail safes" - pieces of logic which would basically ask, in several different situations "Do I really want full throttle here?" Second, they did not make full use of the engine controller's RPM limiting function(s) as fail safes - i.e. limiting RPM to 3000 when the brakes are applied (done by randomly cutting fuel or spark to some cylinders) This is fairly common in other makes - Saturns with manual trans (limited RPM with clutch disengaged), and Nissan with the twin-clutch transmission. And many drag racers use multiple RPM limiters in their ignition systems - like this one:
"HYFIRE 6-AL2 Digital CD Ignition Features At A Glance: High output multi-spark ignition system. Digital performance. 2 Stage built-in easy-to-adjust digital rev limiter - 1,000 to 9,9,00 RPM - no chips required! Latest microprocessor-controlled circuitry."
Typically, one stage of the limiter is uset to control maximum rpm, protecting the engine. The second stage is set at a lower RPM, and wired into the brakes (Footbrake switch, line lock switch, or trans brake switch) This allows very consistent launches - and wiring into the footbrake also provides stuck throttle protection.
But - that would require Toyota's software engineers to pay attention to American racers, and that , according to reports, is "simply not done".

[operationsman]

26. Toyota is Doing the Right Thing By Getting these black boxes

To restore its brand--which used to be associated with quality second to none--Toyota must get all of the facts so that we are not dealing with hearsay and opinion. It seems that there may have been a couple of instances where there has been a rush to judgment, and that doesn't help us at all.

Unfortunately, Toyota has stonewalled the NHTSA for many years, so that they now have a credibility problem. I discuss the 4 causes of Toyota's current predicament in the following post:

http://www.philosophiesofbusiness.com/blog/?p=224

Tim Mojonnier
http://www.philosophiesofbusiness.com/blog/

[fasttense]

3. The "free" market at it's best. Buying our government through lobbyists

is just one way the free market works. I wonder what price the invisible hand of the market sets on a Senator?

The other way is to put out a defective product and hide the dangerous results. Instead of spending useless money on fixing problems, they can just continue to sell cars that will kill people. And isn't that what the "free" market is all about? Selling any old crap, and dangerous crap at that, at the lowest possible price to anyone dumb enough to think they are buying something safe.

The "free" market, killing people for fun and profit.

[pattmarty]

4. Although it probably won't happen, I hope this "kills" Toyota.................

............Can we have a televised version of all the top management committing hara-kiri? Now where are ALL the apologists for Toyota................(crickets)

[itsrobert]

5. And people trust Toyota and NHTSA investigating these runaway cars

I told you all that the NHTSA are on the Toyota payroll and here's further proof.

[DainBramaged]

8. Regulators Hired by Toyota Helped Halt Acceleration Probes

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=atXvi2msqPOM



"What's so rotten about this whole case is that Toyota knew they had a problem," said Michael Rowan, the attorney for Dustin Ricardo's survivors: a daughter, now 4, and a wife. "They decided that if some people lost their lives, then so be it. It was pure greed."

[Mopar151]

10. What kinda gas were they pumping into the meetings

Between Toyota's "fixers" and the NHTSA? "We are not investigating instances where brake actuation was involved" :wtf: :wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::spank: :wow: :banghead: ::wtf::spank: :wow: :banghead: ::wtf::spank: :wow: :banghead:
Completely nuckin futs! Rather than challenge their Japanese bosses on a safety issue, Toyota America made the problems "go away", and patted themselves on the back in a memo real crooks* would not have been dumb enough to commit to paper.


*"Broadway" Freddy DeNane comes to mind....

[PSPS]

9. 2007? I'm sure the BUSH appointee at NHTSA was all about consumer safety.

[Kingofalldems]

11. Special Prosecutor needed---this is huge.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

13. Agreed ... with jail time up the line if proven guilty.

This is a huge public safety issue. Those responsible need to do real time in prison, including anybody involved in a cover-up of any kind. Not attacking Toyota here (we own a '96 and it has been a great car), but *ANY* business in *ANY* industry who is found to have knowingly put so many people at risk of death and injury for a buck needs years in prison to consider their actions. Cars, food, pharma, manufacturing, whatever.

Fines do not matter, only serious jail time (if, after serious and just investigation, they are found to have purposefully put people at risk for a buck) changes this type of behavior by sending a message.

[dixiegrrrrl]

12. Wonder if their sales are dropping at all.

My Toyota is a 93, I plan on keeping it.
but if we do have to get a replacement car, it will not be Toyota.

[madrchsod]

15. yes they are....my daughter works for a toyota supplier

their shipments are down while the same part for gm and others are holding firm.

i have a "rent a car" 94 toyota that just been paid off. it`s a good car but the next one will be a "rent a car" honda accord.

[divideandconquer]

20. Maybe we can get Consumer reports to intercede with Toyota, they have special relationship it seems

I bet if they withhold their recommendation, toyota would relent

[NoGOPZone]

27. Hmmm

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/01/consumer-reports-suspends-recommendations-for-recalled-Toyotas-accelerator-recall.html

[divideandconquer]

29. seems many of their readers agree with me that they are a Toyota PR department

Posted by: Elise | Jan 29, 2010 3:36:22 PM

It is about time. And the 2010 Toyotas did not do so well in the IIHS test did they? Not one was top rated. So next year we will expect to see that Toyota does not have the highest safety rating, won't we? By changing your recommendations I wonder whether CR is more worried about their reputation than the consumer's safety. I would think that Congress' investigation should have any potential Toyota buyer worried. Why are you so worried about protecting Toyota's reputation. You sure didn't worry about Ford's during their recall debacle.

Posted by: Alan | Jan 29, 2010 7:33:09 PM

Consumer Reports should not recommend any Toyota in the future. The case of unwanted acceleration illustrates bad design, engineering and control of the design and testing. The issue of floor mats and acceleration pedals is well known in the industry and appropriate design and manufacturing measures are required. Toyota failed to take these minimal steps. Toyota did not use appropriate fail safe design and software logic. Even with the of the failure of a component, such as a pedal assembly, you should not have runaway acceleration. Other car companies have designed fail safe logic to prevent such an event. If Toyota is so sloppy in their engineering and design, the products should not be recommended. What other safety issues have they been sloppy with?
-----------------
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/01/consumer-reports-suspends-recommendations-for-recalled-Toyotas-accelerator-recall.html

[NoGOPZone]

30. Good subject change

maybe no one will notice you're two months behind

People who post there aren't necessarily readers. Anyone can register and post

"By changing your recommendations I wonder whether CR is more worried about their reputation than the consumer's safety."

So they shouldn't have changed the recommendations? Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Maybe people who think they're a Toyota PR department can explain why they would advise readers on incentives other manufacturers are giving for a Toyota trade-in. :rofl:

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/rss.xml

[divideandconquer]

33. Window dressing, head fake, misdirection

Be interesting to see what these jerk-offs do in the future

[NoGOPZone]

34. The head fake must be working

you're sounding more confused with each post!

[divideandconquer]

35. Whatever, but you have to admit that CR's own blog is full of people who agree with me

[Omaha Steve]

21. Sales are down worldwide

Toyota sales in Europe slip 20 percent

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iX6ngT3tsM_d6wXSfAF2KDpu9CWwD9EFMP880


Toyota’s Premium Pricing Power Vanishes in China After Recall

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-03-17/toyota-s-premium-pricing-power-vanishes-in-china-after-recall.html


Toyota to cut Prius output on slowing sales-source

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTOE62E06620100315


The kicker is MSM reported Toyota sales up n the USA, but...

Decline in Toyota Sales Gives Rivals Boost

http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/economy-and-business/Decline-in-Toyota-Sales-Gives-Rivals-Boost-87178307.html

Ford sales leap 43% in February as Toyota's drop 9% amid recall woes

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/03/business/la-fi-auto-sales3-2010mar03

[dixiegrrrrl]

25. Great links...thanks for the info.

:applause:

[olegramps]

14. This is not limited to Toyoda. Panasonic Plasma TVs are failing.

Hundreds of people have registered their complaints on the internet regarding the failure of Panasonic Plasma TVs. Perhaps their are thousands of cases. Unfortunately, the problem usually don't show up until the one year warranty has expired. In my case the set was 18 months old when it failed. I have had it into the shop three times and the repair bills are now over $500.00. If it fails again I will be forced to junk it since it getting to be a case of pounding sand in a rat hole. This problem is certainly not new and appears to be primarily a failure of the power supply. The technician that I have has told me that the Panasonic Plasma is a "problem child" and he has seen numerous failed sets. What is mystifying it that Consumer Reports continue to rate Panasonic Plasma sets as one of the best. Perhaps this is not the proper place to register my complaint, but I just wanted people on here to be aware of the situation.

[liberation]

22. The failure of and LCD TV an an automobile have very different consequences...

I am sorry your TV broke, but that has nothing to do with this Toyota clusterf*ck.

[olegramps]

28. What it has to do is marketing a product that is know to be defective.

If you crash a defective automobile may or may not result in injury. However, it could result in financial loss. Save you stupid comments for your own posts.

[Romulox]

16. I need the DU Dirt Squad to get me a Jacket Report on Peter Whoriskey, stat!

:rofl:

[Spazito]

18. LOL!

:thumbsup:

[Skink]

17. Class Action

Attorney Jebediah Ward (Gene Hackman) fights for the rights of those who have been victimized by the negligence of large corporations. He begins a David vs. Goliath battle, fighting to compensate the victims of defective automobiles. But his battle becomes more difficult when he learns that the lawyer he's up against is his own estranged daughter, Maggie (Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio). This drama from Michael Apted co-stars Laurence Fishburne.

[pundaint]

19. If Toyota hasn't bribed a broad enough sample of Congress, the could be in trouble.

Nothing shows indignation and concern for the People's interest like an unbribed congressman.

[Frances]

23. Where do the Southern congress people stand on this issue?

They were very vocal in their criticism of U.S. carmakers and any help the U.S. gave them.

I'm very glad that Hundai (I think it is) has a factory in Montgomery, AL. My native state needs more industry.

I'm pleased that other Southern states also have cars being built there.

However, I don't approve of Southern congress people bad mouthing U.S. automakers. They do it because U.S. autoworkers have unions and the Southern congress people are VERY anti-union.

[DainBramaged]

24. Excellent points!!!

[Grand Taurean]

31. Correct.

I supported the bailouts for GM and Chrysler because we cannot let US industry die.
The dixie boys want to see the unions and middle class die.

[Grand Taurean]

32. The "Toyota Premium" is gone.

Now to get those arrogant SOB's at Honda cut down to size.

[defendandprotect]

36. kick to read tomorrow --