Gas prices don't scare off SUV buyers

[NeoConsSuck]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-03-18-bigsuvs_x.htm

DETROIT — Near-record gasoline prices haven't hurt sales of the thirstiest sport-utility vehicles, and a new survey found that two-thirds of consumers wouldn't buy more fuel-efficient vehicles even if prices passed $3 a gallon.

Through February, SUV sales were up 18% over the first two months a year ago, while overall auto sales were off 4%, according to Autodata. Some of the thirstiest SUVs are big gainers, among them: Chevrolet Tahoe, up 41%; Dodge Durango, up 21%; Cadillac Escalade, up 17%; Jeep Grand Cherokee, up 30%; Honda Pilot, up 22%; Lincoln Navigator, up 13%; Mercury Mountaineer, up 40%; and Toyota 4Runner, up 26%.

[Spentastic]

1. I'd guess

That intelligence is rarely a feature of the SUV buyers makeup.

I hope their choices bankrupt them.

[BiggJawn]

2. Buy one, stick your company name on the window (won't mar the paint)

And all the poor, making-less-than-$40,000-bastards like me pay for up to the first 100 kilobuck of your new 2004 Lincoln Penis-vator.

Why don't they seemed to be phased by rising gas prices? I think the answer is in a commentary I saw about NY's plan to raise the Slave Wage:
"Opponents of a Living Wage claim that it will raise the price of a $12 Arugula salad to $13...Like anyone who would pay $12 for a salad WOULD NOTICE IN THE FIRST PLACE...."

If gasoline goes up another dollar a gallon, well, that's a pretty big bite out of my already-straining $37,800 annual paycheque, but for somebody who makes $150,00 a year? Pittance.Pocket Change...

Well, when "Peak Oil" or whatever it is finally comes crashing down around our ears, I guess these left-over Yuppies can always enslave about 20 of us to hitch up and pull them around in their penis augmenters....

[Fovea]

37. Naw

I won't drag their asses around. I say, weld a set of pedals on that Ford Excessive and make them pedal it around town!

[No Mandate Here.]

3. Look for another October Surprise

It wouldn't surprise me if the SUV climbers get a tax credit for their extra gas- just like the deduction if your vehicle is big and heavy enough? It will be so fine when the wingnut is out of office!

[Another Bill C.]

4. Some SUVs get better mileage

than a large auto. My Jeep GC gets 21 mpg. I drive it a little less than 3,000 miles a year so the cost of gas is not a major item.

[Spentastic]

5. 21 mpg is pretty poor

Everywhere except the U.S. Unfortunately you seem intenet on dragging the rest of the world down with you. I now see idiots with SUV's driving around rural London.

Idiots. They are fucking idiots and I hate them. I yearn for the fuckers to flip over and catch fire (not really).

[Another Bill C.]

7. I'm trying to think of something nice to say about Brits.

It's a difficult task.

Go scriosa cúnna ifrinn do bhall fearga.

[Spentastic]

8. I think you mean the English

I thought the Welsh and Scots got a pass when it came to anti English bigotry.

[Streetdoc270]

10. practice tolerance

You lump all SUV drivers in the idiot category without even knowing what they are driving them for, some (not all granted) SUV drivers have a real and legitimate reason for having one.

[Spentastic]

12. Er .Read post 1

"Rarely"

The qualifier is there. I'm willing to bet several bazillion dollars that 90% of SUV's are not purchased for their much vaunted mountain climbing features.

People buying mega vehicles to drive around central London are idiots.

Actually fuck that. Do you tolerate smokers blowing smoke in your face? People shitting in your yard? SUV's are not a consequence free choice U.S.Americans just pretend they are.

[NeoConsSuck]

13. I totally agree..

were talking about wasting a nonrenewable Earth resource.

[Streetdoc270]

60. How often do you change your oil?

Every 3k miles like the oil company tells you to? Ask any competent mechanic and they will tell you that you can go 5+k miles between oil changes. I change my oil every 5-7 and just sold a car that had over 200K miles on it! So this is also a waste of resources. What kind of light bulbs do you use in your home? Just one flat fluorescent bulb in every home in America has the energy savings of 1 million cars a year! It just seems to be fashionable to crack on SUV drivers no matter what they use it for.


btw I would not tolerate someone blowing smoke in my face, but that is a rude behavior and is no way related to my choice of automobile.

[0007]

46. 'Ya got me on your side

SUV's and most folk that drive 'em suck.

[treepig]

28. good point, suv owners are like lawyers

it's the 95% who spoil if for everyone.

[trogdor]

36. I'm guessing you mean some variant of the Jeep CJ.

21 MPG is piss-poor for a vehicle with less passenger room than a Hyundai Accent. Hate to break it to you.

[Another Bill C.]

42. But you're guessing wrongly.

The GC is a Grand Cherokee. I once had a Dodge Omni but every time the snow got deeper than the bumper, the thing wouldn't move. I'm too old to be shoveling my car out of the drifts.

I drive about 3,000 miles a year. That's about 1/5th the average for an American driver so if the average driver got 40 miles to the gallon (and they don't), they would still burn 2-1/2 times as much as I do.

If you want to talk about bad mileage, we could talk about my Mustang. There's a real gas hog. I only drive that 200 miles a year, though.

[rinsd]

57. New Hybrids coming out

I believe 2 new SUV hybirds(Toyota and maybe Ford) are coming out this year with 40 to 45 mpg.

[jpgray]

6. LOL, this is getting to be like the twenties

Auto sales are roaring! Luxury cars are great moneymakers!...

Then the ordinary consumer drops out from low-wage asphyxiation and heavy unemployment/massive debt and the companies are crushed, along with the economy. :(

[BiggJawn]

14. Yeah, where are the 2004 Cords and Dusenburgs?

OK, so Packard made it to the 50's before they died, but it was their aircraft and boat engines that saw them through the First Great Depression...

50 years from now, H-2's will be as rare as a Dusie SJ, and for the same reason. the Economy collapsed and they couldn't GIVE the damn things away.

[DUreader]

9. This is due to New Tax Benefits Write off 100% of SUV cost

up to $100,000.

That is a lot of gas money

[The Backlash Cometh]

25. These tax write-offs don't go to individual buyers.

They go to corporations. And, yes, taking away this tax would probably put a dent on sales.

[BiggJawn]

35. Oh, hoo-haa....not "individual buyers"...<chuckle>

Like Sam Jones d/b/a "The SAM-wich Shoppe and BBQ, inc." (we do catering!) or Krystal Bawls d/b/a "Krystal's Kutn' Kurl and Beauty supply" ("I use my Hummer for delivering salon equipment") wouldn't qualify?

Satisfy the "Needs Test", collect up to 100 kilobucks...

More than 1/2 the Hummers I see around here have the name of a small business placarded on them. It pisses me off so much I feel like confronting the drivers and saying "Hey, since my tax dollars bought that for you, how's about I take it for a spin?"

not "individual buyers".......hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah........

[The Backlash Cometh]

43. Be free to correct me if I'm wrong, but the tax write-offs go to

fleet purchases. Therefore, once again, tax breaks aren't going to individual purchasers. Sorry if you can't knock off the sarcasm to understand the subtleties.

[scarletwoman]

44. You are wrong!

Here's the real information -- and notice it says NOTHING about "fleet purchases":

http://www.selfemployedweb.com/suv-tax-deduction.htm

SUV TAX DEDUCTION EFFECTS

These changes to the tax code, which were originally intended to spur capital investments by farmers and small businesses that rely on heavier vehicles, have made the purchase of heavy SUVs extremely lucrative for any small business owner, whether or not the vehicle is necessary in their work. It has raised the deduction cap to $100,000 for small businesses, while retaining all other aspects of the tax cut.

<snip>

As a result, Hummer sales, and SUV sales in general, have skyrocketed and this trend has continued with the passage of the Jobs and Growth Act. This has raised a number of important questions about the effect of this provision. For one, this is another tax break that primarily benefits the rich. Skip Barnett, who owns a hummer dealership in Atlanta, said that most of his buyers are small-business owners with incomes of over $200,000. The tax break has encouraged people from all lines of work, including real-estate agents, lawyers, consultants, and many others - for whom this provision was never intended - to purchase a luxury SUV instead of a luxury automobile, which is not eligible for the same deductions.

"Correct me if I'm wrong", you said. Well, here's your correction.

sw

[The Backlash Cometh]

47. Thank you for the information. I agree that the tax credit is an incentive

that isn't necessary for the purchase of this kind of vehicle. But not all of us who purchased SUVs, purchased because of the tax credit. It certainly wasn't a concern for us. But it would be interesting to discover how much difference it would make in the long run if the tax break were taken away. Perhaps the answer is to give the tax credit to those vehicles which are environmentally friendly. That's something the Kerry people can work on. It would make far better sense than the current system.

[scarletwoman]

49. A good answer is provided further down in the article I cited...

CLOSING THE LOOPHOLE
Like many tax breaks, this one started with good intentions-helping family farmers and businesses purchase necessary equipment. This aspect of the provision needs to be maintained. With the rapidly expanding SUV market, however, the tax exemption has become a misguided incentive for people to buy much larger vehicles than they need.

The loophole that allows the law to be misused should be removed. The way to do this is to more accurately define "passenger vehicles" and "work vehicles." Currently, a passenger vehicle is defined as any 4-wheeled automobile designed primarily for use on public streets, roads, and highways that weighs less than 6,000 pounds.12 Passenger SUVs that are over 6,000 pounds need to be distinguished from industrial vehicles and placed under the normal depreciation schedule for businesses in IRC section 280F.

The main point of my original post was to provide factual information to correct your assertion that individuals aren't benefitting from the SUV tax credit. Clearly they ARE.

As to your own reasons for owning an SUV, that's your business, imho. I will mention, however, that I lived in the foothills of the Chugach mountains in rural Alaska for 6 years, and a 4wd Suburu wagon with good snow tires that got 35mpg was plenty good enough to get around in all winter long.

sw

[The Backlash Cometh]

54. For clarity's sake:

1) Individuals who purchase their SUV's under a corporate name benefit from the tax break, but not individuals who purchase them in their own names.

and

2) I hate to break it to you, but the SUV has made a big difference in our life. I wish I could explain it to you, but I don't think you'd understand. However, I look forward to the day when we can get better mileage options in these kind of vehicles.

[rinsd]

55. This article...

Cites gross weight. How is that different from Curb weight?

Because the curb weights average 1000 lbs less of the vehicles they cited(under the 6000 lb mark).

I thought only the H2 and Hummer were heavy enough to qualify for this.

[Babette]

59. I've seen this law misused....

I have a 17 year old student whose mother owns a local maid service. They have used the tax break to buy an Escalade for the kid. Just a few days ago his parents bought him a SECOND Escalade! Now I ask you, how many cars does a seventeen year old need?!

[BiggJawn]

50. And that's what I was saying.

Sorry YOU couldn't filter the sarcasm enough to get to the meat.

Everybody buys whatever they need for whatever reason they can rationalize it. that's right, I said rationalize.

Me, f'instance. I SOMETIMES haul building materials and garden mulch. Not every day, not even every week, but instead of buying something like a Saturn or a small Ford sedan, I bought a Ranger. Why? "because I haul mulch 3 times a year".

It's the sames with SUV buyers. How many times have we hgeard "but, they're SAFER" or "I NEED 4-wheel drive" when their neighbour does just fine with her 20-y-o Honda Civic.
Now, if I'm a small business owner and I can rationalize a "need" for a huge gas-sucking behemouth of a vehicle, and I have NO sense of shame (and no small doubts about my manhood) or concern for the enviroment, and I can write-off the first 100 kilobuck on my taxes, what do you think I'd do? Gee, 21 kilobucks for a Ford F-150 (I get "A Plan") or 75 kilobucks for an H-2...Whaddafuck, it's not costing ME anything out of pocket in the long run....

A tax credit for enviromentaly friendly vehicles makes a hell of a lot more sense than rewarding guys with "issues" for being part of the "Peak oil" problem.

[rinsd]

53. The tax writeoff?

Wasn't that for vehicles over a certain weight limit that only the Hummer And H2 qualified(out of the SUV's not actual trucks) for?

If so, I seem to remember Hummer sales are down.

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11076363&BRD=982&PAG=461&dept_id=468148&rfi=6

[bleedingheart]

11. I guess its a sign of affluence if you throw money away on something

you burn....

[keithyboy]

15. People have too much money and credit. It's making us self-absorbded

and stupid. Hey, no civilization has lasted much beyond 200 years in tact, so why worry. We'll be "history" soon.

[Mozam]

16. Buy...

Cheese and bread to go with this forum

[Spentastic]

17. O.K

And I'll purchase my idiot proof goggles.

How I love the ignore feature

[Mozam]

21. No...

I know that if I hit my head against a wall...it hurts and life is just too short to fight windmills

[PassingFair]

26. You're gonna love this site, Spentastic

I'm still chuckling everytime I see an SUV

www.fuh2.com

...because nothing says ASSHOLE quite like a hummer...

[Mountainman]

29. It says it only in you mind.

I love these SUV treads. It's almost as much fun as reading freerepublic. You think that everyone sees things as you do. LOL!

[Spentastic]

31. Yeah you could think

Ooooh that big yellow thing is sooo coool. I wish I could have one that would be cool and people would think I was cool. I bet I'd get to bang hot chicks in a big yellow hummer and I could intimadate other people, that would be sooooo cooooool. Like totally awesome mega cool. I'd have it fitted with wheels big enough to crush a compact car on contact..

Then you'd be an imbecile.

If anyone weighs up the pro ands cons of owning an SUV and still buys one, that is their choice. I don't have to agree with it and I'll point out what I think about people that put their wants before the welfare of others.

SUV's in my opinion are just one sign of a very sick society.

[PassingFair]

33. If only you'd even Partially

live up to your sig. line...we might have a chance.

[JohnyCanuck]

51. Anyone up for a little shadenfreude?

This weekend my wife and I looked at cars to replace our VW. While at the local Honda dealership I had a conversation with a sales guy about H2s. It seems that a number of H2 owners have been looking to trade in their H2s for more wallet-friendly cars but car dealers are not offering a good trade in value on the H2. The salesman said that he had personally talked with three owners who were frantic to get out of their H2s but could not afford to because they were upside-down on their pay-off to trade in ratio. He said that one owner was mad because the dealership only offered him half what he said would be his minimum acceptable trade-in value. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! FUH2!

http://www.fuh2.com/submissions.php?query=&page=0&limit=10 (about 10th down from the top)

[hatrack]

22. My, this post crackles with originality and wit!

I've never heard that one before - how original!

Thanks for joining the conversation, Mozam! :eyes:

[Mozam]

41. Thanks

Ranting about things I have no control ranks lower than self abuse.

see you around in the funny papers...the light at the end of the tunnel might just be you.

[tlcandie]

18. This article doesn't impress me. Talk to me about sales figures

oh say, about June or August, maybe by then I will believe the numbers if they aren't cooked liked everything else coming from the government any more.

[ramapo]

19. Doesn't matter to many.

Most of the SUVs have big price tags. If you can afford to buy then another $100 or even more a month doesn't matter to you, especially when the choice is to give up your SUV.

Lease deals make SUVs even more attractive.

The worse offender, the Humvee, is so expensive that gas could go to $5 a gallon and the owners would still be guzzling away.

But not only are the SUVs fuel hogs, they are a danger to everyone driving a car.

Bottom line is our society has descended to a level of self-absorption unequaled anywhere. Shallow and selfish are we.

[phantom power]

27. I'm not so sure

I see a lot of run down, low end houses with big, shiny SUVs parked in the driveway. It's our car-culture. People value having a status symbol car more than they care about the house they live in.

Combine that with the phenomenal (desperate) deals that auto-dealers are advertising lately, and the super-low interest rates, and then throw in people's lack of imagination (gas-price increases are always temporary, surely the future is always like the present).

I think many, if not most, SUV owners live on the hairy edge of affording them.

[jayfish]

32. Yes Gas Prices Are Only Temporary. The Problem Is...

that historically they are "temporarily" high during the summer months. We are still in winter. Gas prices have no where to go but up. I for one cannot afford it.

Jay

[trogdor]

38. Where is this?

Tell me. Show me. I've been through a few run-down neighborhoods, and I've never seen the mythical low-rent place where everybody has a GMC Yukon in the driveway. As far as I know, such a place doesn't exist.

That doesn't mean that members of the predator classes in such neighborhoods (drug dealers, pimps, etc.) don't drive them, but most such places I've been, the typical car is a ten year old piece of GM shit with the trunk lid and doors rusted out.

[phantom power]

40. phoenix. deer valley area comes to mind

I should add that this isn't any kind of scientific study, just me with a vague impression. Also, I'm essentially talking about middle-class housing, not the slums.

[maxanne]

20. ah, the entitlement

of some people.

There isn't anyone who can justify their need for a personal Humvee to me. I understand some people need 4WD - but NO ONE on maude's green earth needs a Humvee.

Most people with 4WD don't need it. I live in the mountains of northern NH and don't have it - and I drive all over the state all the time. I manage just fine in my economical Toyota Corolla that gets 40mpg. Good gnarly snowtires take me where I need to go, 99% of the time.

[LeftyChristian]

58. Entitlement?

I thought entitlements were when people get things for a reduced price or free from a government sponsored program?

Where are they giving away SUVs? I'd like to get the cash equivalent to pay some of my mortgage down!

[w4rma]

61. A 100% tax credit on large SUVs and Hummers IS a government sponsored

program.

[The Backlash Cometh]

23. USA Today? Isn't that the newspaper that had a reporter falsifying

information?

I drive an SUV and the raised gas prices are definitely putting a cramp on our lifestyle. Where parents depended on me to carpool all the kids to special events, I'm now saying I'll share the driving with someone else.

[phantom power]

24. consider Phoenix last summer

When we had that pipeline shut down for a few weeks. Gas prices hit about $2.50/gal (average). I can tell you this: all non-essential driving completely halted for about three weeks. It was kind of nice on the freeways, you could definitely see the difference. We were trying to sell our house exactly during that time, and we got three visitors in three weeks. Which is astonishingly low, in the Phoenix real-estate market. Nobody was willing to drive around the city, perusing houses.

[LibDemAlways]

30. Close to 100% of the parents at my daughter's school

(with the exception of me) drive huge, obscene SUVs. Most of these people have two, or at most, three kids, who
could fit comfortably in a small station wagon or a minivan or even a mid-size sedan. None of them are doing any off-roading or mountain driving. This is pure follow the sheep brainless behavior, and it's downright scary to watch these soccer mom types with one hand on the cell phone speeding down residential streets in these huge beasts. Absolutely clueless morons.

[bleedingheart]

34. I find that the more expensive the SUV the more they avoid

the bumps in the road.
The same SUV's that are advertised as tough enough to tackle the rockies and people will cause an accident to avoid a bump.

[The Backlash Cometh]

48. Be afraid, be very afraid.

The fact that there are so many of us should tell you that you are missing a very important element and the longer you refuse to see it, the harder it will be for the Dems to claim they are in touch with the needs of the middle class. Instead, you come across like nutcases such as PETA. The ideas are good, but the delivery only alienates you from the mainstream.

[LibDemAlways]

62. The fact that there are so many people driving

the gas guzzling behemoths tells me only that people don't give a rat's ass about the
environment or our finite petroleum resources -- and that they have no ability to think
for themselves. It's like they're all still in high school scared to death of not being
part of the popular crowd.

[fujiyama]

39. I would agree...

that many SUV drivers are fools, but I think there is one thing that thing no one is discussing here.

So many people are running out and buying SUVs, but at the same time we're faced with a pretty bleak economic picture -- with an unknown employment forcast, expanding costs of entitlement programs...It seems as though people are financing their lifestyles on massive debt...

So people, at this point, aren't making as much money as they once were, but at the same time, want all the same toys they had when they did have better paying jobs...hmmmm

[dawn]

45. I have never understood the love of SUVs

I've always thought they were ugly. To each his (or her) own, of course.

But I don't like it that their increased gasoline demand raises my prices, too. And I'm damn tired of SUVs parking in COMPACT spaces. Why isn't that illegal?

[theHandpuppet]

52. Speaking of parking spaces...

Recently spotted a GIGANTO Hummer at a local restaurant. The Hummer sported handicapped plates and took up two spaces reserved for handicapped parking.

Just my humble opinion, but if I was handicapped to the point where it was important for me to park close to entrances/exits, the last thing I would drive would be a damn Hummer. You have to be an acrobat just to get in and out of those things!

[leesa]

56. Ignorance trumps fear.