Analysts now doubt group's claim for Madrid bombing

[nicecakes]

Friday, March 19, 2004

LONDON – Western intelligence analysts doubt the credibility of a purported Al Qaida group that has threatened new attacks in Europe.

Yigal Carmon, president of the Washington-based Middle East Media Research Institute and counter-terrorism adviser to three prime ministers, said the Abu Hafs statement does not represent Al Qaida.

"The text of this statement includes linguistic usages and concepts that are incompatible with or alien to authentic Al Qaida writings by Osama Bin Laden, Dr. Ayman Al Zawahiri, and others," Carmon wrote in an analysis.

Abu Hafs has claimed responsibility for the Madrid train bombings on March 11 in which 202 people were killed. On Thursday, the London-based Al Quds Al Arabi daily released another statement by Abu Hafs that warned of additional attacks.

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_8.html

[bemildred]

1. So they got some new ghost writers.

But seriously, they seem confused about the intended
audience of these missives. It's not us here in the
West that they are addressed to, it is the al Q faithful.
There was a Moroccan group that made the first claim of
"credit" on jihadunspun.

[KoKo]

2. Chilling quote from this article:

"The analysts said the most puzzling aspect of Abu Hafs was its offer to end Al Qaida attacks in Europe. Abu Hafs said it was suspending attacks in Spain to allow its new socialist government to honor a pledge to withdraw from Iraq. Abu Hafs said it also supports the re-election campaign of President George Bush.

"We change and destroy countries," the statement said. "We even influence the international economy, and this is God's blessing to us."

[54anickel]

3. Hmmm, raising the question of why not let the FBI in on the investigation?

The last 2 paragraphs are also interesting:

Meanwhile, a European Commission report criticized implementation of European Union agreements to battle insurgency groups and called for a database of criminal records on insurgents throughout the continent. The report also called on EU states to honor orders to seize bank assets of Al Qaida-inspired insurgents.

"It is essential in the fight against terrorism for the relevant services to have the fullest and most up-to-date information possible in their respective fields, including information on convictions," the report said.

[Rex]

4. Not ETA or Al Qaida

Then who did it?

[ElementaryPenguin]

5. BFEE?

Aren't they an Al Qaida affiliate?

:shrug:

[Gman]

17. Expect the BFEE to bomb something to hell sometime after

mid-September. If Al-Queda or ETA didn't do Madrid, that leaves one prime suspect, the BFEE. That would validate that the Madrid bombings were intended to influence the Spanish elections, although the result was not the intended consequence.

These people stole an election for the president of the United States of America. Therefore, by definition, these people are capable of and are willing to do literally anything they feel it takes to gain and keep power. They are extremely violent and dangerous people that know no moral or legal bounds.

[Rex]

27. I believe the BFEE is more like a sponsor.

We should let the FBI go in and figure it out! :crazy:

[Dover]

6. Who would benefit from Spain's withdrawal of troops?

NOT Bushco, as far as I can tell. The real battles are going on in boardrooms and secret meetings across the planet, so who knows....
but lets see who this benefits. So far it looks like the results are bad for the Bush administration's "international coalition", and good for strengthening of the EU who is embracing Spain.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dover]

8. How has this hurt Europe?

It seems to have brought them closer together.

[Mad_Bulgarian]

11. You do not understand European mindsets

if you believe that. Europe will be closer together only in that we will be united in fear of terror. Fear is what drives the Spaniards now. The French have fear too because they fear their own Muslim populace. This is fact. France will be subjugating to Islam within 20 years and will sease to exist as it once was. This will happen to them, as will Sharia law I am telling you.

[Dover]

16. So you support Spain's coalition with the U.S. in Iraq and believe

their message about terrorism?

Do you think these wars have anything to do with oil and other resources, rather than strictly Islam vs. the Western World?

[Zhade]

25. This is the funniest post I've read so far today.

It might behoove you to remember that something like 90% of Spanish citizens were against the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

The election results in Spain were a foregone conclusion, bullshit rightwing "polls" showing Aznar's party winning notwithstanding. Fear had little to do with it.

[keithyboy]

13. Funny how Islamics are just like EU, Christian colonists, isn't it.

They want to contro EU and EU and US Christians want to control the Arab nations. What you see depends on where you stand.

[54anickel]

9. So what's ol' Pootie Poot been up to these days? Seems everyone

would want a piece of the oil action in redefining the ME. Who knows is right. shrug:

Watch for the knight on the white horse after the final blow to the US in this fiasco.

[Minstrel Boy]

12. But the election of the left was not the expected result.

When a populace is terrorized, its common response is to turn to the right, which promises strength, security and retribution.

This was the intent behind the "strategy of tension" in Italy during the 1960s and 70s, perpetrated by Gladio groups, the mob and the fascistic P2 lodge, and sponsored by the United States: undermind support for the Communists through a campaign of terror attributed to the left, but conducted by the right.

[Dover]

14. Wasn't the greater part of the Spanish population against the war

in Iraq and against it's government's participation with the U.S.?

Seems to me that it was a pot about to boil and was given a little nudge by the blasts. It's just another theory to consider beyond the one you are suggesting.

Some might argue that the same conditions exist in the U.S. and that another "terrorist attack" here would have the same effect....a move to the LEFT. Your theory is only good for the conditions under which they existed in history. This is now. People don't like to feel manipulated. At some point, when trust is lost in the leadership and there is evidence they have been manipulative, any further violence will likely result in a peoples' anger being turned against the leadership...regardless of "who dunnit"...because the events are connected to the environment they have created. Particularly if the problems seemed to begin in earnest only during the period that an administration was in office. At some point people's fear turns to anger...

[Minstrel Boy]

19. But consider the re-election of Ariel Sharon.

His policies exacerbated the tensions and contributed greatly to Israelis insecurity, and yet he was returned to power. Was his victory regardless, or because of, the insecurities he helped enable?

[Dover]

20. Yes, although Israel's vulnerabilities are different than ours or even

Spain's. And then we are, of course, operating on the assumption that the voting results in any of these scenarios weren't tampered with (which is not really a safe assumption).

I guess my point is that there is more than one theory or explanation for any event, especially as regards the interests and agendas of the various global players. The intrigue is due to the complexity of these relationships, both the overt public ones as well as hidden ones. So it's difficult for us, sitting here, to say who might be behind any one event. The same complexity is present in human and group psychology. So formulas are dangerous. This is why intelligence "on the ground" is so important - to learn more about the specifics of each unique situation, the overt and covert relationships involved and to read the public mood.

They study us all the time....and it's much easier to manipulate people who define themselves narrowly, and don't allow for complexities. They are more predictable.

Perhaps this was a BFEE operation gone wrong, perhaps it was an EU operation gone right, or retribution from another country who felt betrayed by Spain, or al Qaeda/Islamic extremists, or a combination of two disparate interests teaming up for a mutually beneficial outcome...or none of the above. But I do feel sure we don't know the half of it.

That said...there is plenty of evidence that the BFEE misreads these signals all the time in their arrogance, and might have, indeed had a hand in the Madrid blasts, operating under the assumption it would benefit rather than topple the current Spanish leadership. Stories like this make me wonder.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=433319&mesg_id=433319

Either these constant insults by BFEE is a brilliant attempt to stir things up toward some end that is not yet clear to the laymen, or such blind ignorance that it is beyond imagining.

[Judi Lynn]

15. Thanks for the info.

Didn't know this about Italy at that time. It definitely fits a well-established pattern.

[ze_dscherman]

22. Guess who was Reagans counter-terrorism expert in Italy at that time?

Michael Ledeen

Just google for Ledeen + Italy.

:tinfoilhat:

[hang a left]

28. I am also one of those that do not buy the official story

I think the election was going to turn out just the way it did without any mayhem. The bombings may have helped someone save face.

[0007]

10. `O Fuck, here we go again. Now we know why Spain didn't

want the FBI and the spooks in their country investigating.

[Zhade]

18. "Middle East Media Research Institute" - MEMRI???

THIS is considered a reputable source for such allegations? MEMRI is a neocon outfit!

[Dover]

21. Yeah, I haven't seen this news source posted for quite awhile on DU.

There is a good reason for that...

[nicecakes]

23. Maybe you could post a list of approved news sources?

Some of us doing news searches don't have a cheat sheet to rub against news stories that come up. Got list?

[Zhade]

24. Simple rule-of-thumb: neoconservatives BAD.

Remember that, and you'll remember that sources such as MEMRI - a think-tank co-founded by Meyrav Wurmser, David Wurmser's wife and a busy little neocon beaver in her own right - are nothing more than propaganda factories.

[nicecakes]

26. Then make a list with numbnuts like "Meyrav Wurmser" on it

I have never even heard of Meyrav Wurmser. It even sounds like a stage name.

[Zhade]

31. Google is a wonderful tool.

And it's not hard to check sources - it took my 15 minutes to post the other post proving that World Tribune is a rightwing source.

[Zhade]

30. You know what? I'm not done. Check this out.

In doing some poking around, I discovered something interesting about the people at the World Tribune: extensive ties to the right.

Editorial Board:

Steve Rodan - former "special correspondent and editor for the Jerusalem Post" (Richard Perle sits on the board)...

Edward Neilan - former "senior fellow at the Asian Studies Center of the Heritage Foundation"...

Frederick Peterson III - "...appears frequently on Fox News as a national security expert commentator"...

Advisory Board:

Arnold Beichman - "...author of five books: The Other State Department, Herman Wouk: The Novelist as Social Historian, Yuri Andropov: New Challenge to the West (coauthored), Nine Lies about America, with a foreword by Tom Wolfe, and The Long Pretense: Soviet Treaty Diplomacy, 1917–1990, with a foreword by William F. Buckley..." and "...a regular columnist for the Washington Times..."

Timothy C. Brown - "...he served as senior liaison to the Nicaraguan Democratic Resistance (the Contras) in Central America from 1987 to 1990..."

Bill Gertz - "...national security correspondent at The Washington Times and the author of the New York Times bestseller, Betrayal: How the Clinton administration undermined American security..."

Herbert London - "...in 1989, was one of the Republican candidates for mayor of New York City...Dr. London's commentaries have appeared in the Wall Street Journal, The Washington Times, National Review, American Spectator..."

Scott McCollum - "...is featured on the weekly Republican Radio show broadcast in all three states on the West Coast..."

Quite a few of these people are also current or past members of the rightwing Hoover Institution.

So, in a nutshell: check your sources better next time. The World Tribune is clearly a rightwing source, and thus is banned by DU rules.

[DoYouEverWonder]

29. Abu Hafs also claimed to have caused the NE Blackout

They have also claimed responsiblity with other terrorist attacks and also promised last Nov that we would see cars of death. Sounds like a nice bunch of folks. Anyway, if they really are connected to the Spain attack, it makes you wonder about that blackout last summer?

[Dirk39]

32. Third Possibility In Madrid Bombings: Gladio

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CON403A.html

I benefit a lot from the economic studies published by the "Centre for Research on Globalisation", but when I did read the article I linked to above, I thought, they were pushing it too far (again).
It's a bit hard not to be the victim of paranoia these days.

But there's one thing, I'm really concerned about. One thing that sounds too good to be true: Al Quaida stating that they wanted the socialists too win.
That's just too ridiculous and it sounds as if Bush's ghost writers have composed it.

What Aznar has done to remain in power is just unbelievable. He has pushed the spanish police to lie. The PP and Aznar have disinformed all european police forces to make them believe, ETA was behind the attacks. The spanish rightwingers and ETA. That's like the Bush-Administration and Iraq... But this time, it didn't work.


Aznar and the PP have forced the press to publish that ETA was behind the attack. They succeded in forcing a UN resolution, blaming ETA.

And now, as it seems that radical Islamists were behind the attacks, those radical islamists state openly that they wanted the socialists to win?
Even if I suppose this to be true - what I don't do - they wouldn't be so Fox-News-stupid to admit it. Would be counterproductive at least.

Still in doubts,
Hello from Germany,
Dirk

[Cooley Hurd]

33. Um, this is a World Tribune article...

As bad as NewsMax as WorldNetDaily (if not worse). Take whatever it says with a grain of salt.

Nicecakes, I know you are new but, in the future, try to cite only mainstream sources (not far-right sources like worldtribune.com) when posting in LBN.

Thanks! :hi: