Hillary Clinton scorns 'entrenched' Cuba

[dipsydoodle]

Source: BBC News

Cuba's leaders do not want to normalise ties with the US because then they would lose their excuse for the state of the country, says Hillary Clinton.

Cuba's response to recent US efforts to improve relations had revealed "an intransigent, entrenched regime" in Havana, said the US secretary of state.

The Cuban authorities have long blamed a 48-year US trade embargo for holding back the country's development.

The US says the embargo will remain until Cuba improves human rights.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8612765.stm

[leeloo]

1. Hillary

I try not to post but Hillary has hit the ball out of the park.
You go girl...
K&R bigtime.

[Grinchie]

50. Doing a "Heckuva Job Hilary"

A big Attaboy to you and Bill.

[harmonicon]

58. did the ball land in Honduras?

The country where she supported a murderous right-wing coup which is still - while in power - killing journalists and left-wing opponents?

[Name removed]

2. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DesertFlower]

3. "human rights"? isn't the embargo hurting people?

[Judi Lynn]

15. Somewhat. Please check this report by the American Association for World Health:

Denial of Food and Medicine:
The Impact Of The U.S. Embargo
On The Health And Nutrition In Cuba"
-An Executive Summary-
American Association for World Health Report
Summary of Findings
March 1997

After a year-long investigation, the American Association for World Health has determined that the U.S. embargo of Cuba has dramatically harmed the health and nutrition of large numbers of ordinary Cuban citizens. As documented by the attached report, it is our expert medical opinion that the U.S. embargo has caused a significant rise in suffering-and even deaths-in Cuba. For several decades the U.S. embargo has imposed significant financial burdens on the Cuban health care system. But since 1992 the number of unmet medical needs patients going without essential drugs or doctors performing medical procedures without adequate equipment-has sharply accelerated. This trend is directly linked to the fact that in 1992 the U.S. trade embargo-one of the most stringent embargoes of its kind, prohibiting the sale of food and sharply restricting the sale of medicines and medical equipment-was further tightened by the 1992 Cuban Democracy Act.

A humanitarian catastrophe has been averted only because the Cuban government has maintained a high level of budgetary support for a health care system designed to deliver primary and preventive health care to all of its citizens. Cuba still has an infant mortality rate half that of the city of Washington, D.C.. Even so, the U.S. embargo of food and the de facto embargo on medical supplies has wreaked havoc with the island's model primary health care system. The crisis has been compounded by the country's generally weak economic resources and by the loss of trade with the Soviet bloc.

Recently four factors have dangerously exacerbated the human effects of this 37-year-old trade embargo. All four factors stem from little-understood provisions of the U.S. Congress' 1992 Cuban Democracy Act (CDA):

1. A Ban on Subsidiary Trade: Beginning in 1992, the Cuban Democracy Act imposed a ban on subsidiary trade with Cuba. This ban has severely constrained Cuba's ability to import medicines and medical supplies from third country sources. Moreover, recent corporate buyouts and mergers between major U.S. and European pharmaceutical companies have further reduced the number of companies permitted to do business with Cuba.
   
   
2. Licensing Under the Cuban Democracy Act: The U.S. Treasury and Commerce Departments are allowed in principle to license individual sales of medicines and medical supplies, ostensibly for humanitarian reasons to mitigate the embargo's impact on health care delivery. In practice, according to U.S. corporate executives, the licensing provisions are so arduous as to have had the opposite effect. As implemented, the licensing provisions actively discourage any medical commerce. The number of such licenses granted-or even applied for since 1992-is minuscule. Numerous licenses for medical equipment and medicines have been denied on the grounds that these exports "would be detrimental to U.S. foreign policy interests."
   
   
3. Shipping Since 1992: The embargo has prohibited ships from loading or unloading cargo in U.S. ports for 180 days after delivering cargo to Cuba. This provision has strongly discouraged shippers from delivering medical equipment to Cuba. Consequently shipping costs have risen dramatically and further constricted the flow of food, medicines, medical supplies and even gasoline for ambulances. From 1993 to 1996, Cuban companies spent an additional $8.7 million on shipping medical imports from Asia, Europe and South America rather than from the neighboring United States.
   
   
4. Humanitarian Aid: Charity is an inadequate alternative to free trade in medicines, medical supplies and food. Donations from U.S. non-governmental organizations and international agencies do not begin to compensate for the hardships inflicted by the embargo on the Cuban public health system. In any case, delays in licensing and other restrictions have severely discouraged charitable contributions from the U.S.

Taken together, these four factors have placed severe strains on the Cuban health system. The declining availability of food stuffs, medicines and such basic medical supplies as replacement parts for thirty-year-old X-ray machines is taking a tragic human toll. The embargo has closed so many windows that in some instances Cuban physicians have found it impossible to obtain life-saving medicines from any source, under any circumstances. Patients have died. In general, a relatively sophisticated and comprehensive public health system is being systematically stripped of essential resources. High-technology hospital wards devoted to cardiology and nephrology are particularly under siege. But so too are such basic aspects of the health system as water quality and food security. Specifically, the AAWH's team of nine medical experts identified the following health problems affected by the embargo:

1. Malnutrition: The outright ban on the sale of American foodstuffs has contributed to serious nutritional deficits, particularly among pregnant women, leading to an increase in low birth-weight babies. In addition, food shortages were linked to a devastating outbreak of neuropathy numbering in the tens of thousands. By one estimate, daily caloric intake dropped 33 percent between 1989 and 1993.
   
   
2. Water Quality: The embargo is severely restricting Cuba's access to water treatment chemicals and spare-parts for the island's water supply system. This has led to serious cutbacks in supplies of safe drinking water, which in turn has become a factor in the rising incidence of morbidity and mortality rates from water-borne diseases.
   
   
3. Medicines & Equipment: Of the 1,297 medications available in Cuba in 1991, physicians now have access to only 889 of these same medicines - and many of these are available only intermittently. Because most major new drugs are developed by U.S. pharmaceuticals, Cuban physicians have access to less than 50 percent of the new medicines available on the world market. Due to the direct or indirect effects of the embargo, the most routine medical supplies are in short supply or entirely absent from some Cuban clinics.
   
   
4. Medical Information: Though information materials have been exempt from the U.S. trade embargo since 1 988, the AAWH study concludes that in practice very little such information goes into Cuba or comes out of the island due to travel restrictions, currency regulations and shipping difficulties. Scientists and citizens of both countries suffer as a result. Paradoxically, the embargo harms some U.S. citizens by denying them access to the latest advances in Cuban medical research, including such products as Meningitis B vaccine, cheaply produced interferon and streptokinase, and an AIDS vaccine currently under-going clinical trials with human volunteers.

Finally, the AAWH wishes to emphasize the stringent nature of the U.S. trade embargo against Cuba. Few other embargoes in recent history - including those targeting Iran, Libya, South Africa, Southern Rhodesia, Chile or Iraq - have included an outright ban on the sale of food. Few other embargoes have so restricted medical commerce as to deny the availability of life-saving medicines to ordinary citizens. Such an embargo appears to violate the most basic international charters and conventions governing human rights, including the United Nations charter, the charter of the Organization of American States, and the articles of the Geneva Convention governing the treatment of civilians during wartime.

American Association for World Health
1825 K Street, NW, Suite 1208
Washington, DC 20006

http://www.cubasolidarity.net/aawh.html

[leeloo]

22. 1997?

Jeez girl how many years had they been getting money from Russia and still no improvement in the country..
The amount of money the former C.C.C.P gave to Cuba they should be self sufficent by now..

[Judi Lynn]

24. As I said, you owe it to yourself to stay conscious, and do your homework.

You really need to know what you're talking about in order to discuss it with others. Otherwise there's no starting place.

[Grinchie]

51. They have some of the best healthcare in the world

So they must be doing something right without shoveling money into and Insurance Lobby's mouth.

[DesertFlower]

27. thank you for posting this. nt

[Judi Lynn]

31. There are all kinds of extraterritorial aspects to this monstrosity, too.

It even extends to the extent _{George W. Bush's} administration had the Mexico City Sheraton throw out a party of 16 Cubans who were there for an energy summit. If you haven't heard this one, it will surprise you:

Bad Neighbor Policy No. 2
U.S. Treasury Evicts Cubans from Sheraton Hotel in Mexico City
International Relations Center | April 18, 2006
Americas Program, Center for International Policy (CIP) americas.irc-online.org

The U.S. Treasury Department ordered the Sheraton Hotel chain to expel 16 Cuban nationals staying at the Sheraton María Isabel in Mexico City on February 4th. The Cubans were participating in the U.S.-Cuba Energy Summit, a conference organized by the U.S.-Cuba Trade Association.

The Treasury Department did not issue a public statement explaining the unusual action, but it falls under enforcement of the Helms-Burton Act of 1996. The act prohibits U.S. companies from doing business with Cuban-owned interests in any part of the world and has reaped criticism from other countries as a violation of national sovereignty.

The Treasury Department knew about the event and its Cuban participants well before the eviction since the U.S.-Cuba Trade Association routinely advises the Treasury Department of its meetings. However, neither planners nor the Cuban participants were warned of the possible eviction until they were told to leave the hotel. Their room deposits were turned over to the Treasury Department.

The Sheraton Hotel management stated that it was merely following orders from the U.S. Treasury. The measure placed the company in a no-win situation, forcing it to violate at least one law—the U.S. prohibition on trade with Cuba abroad or Mexico's anti-discrimination laws.

The eviction caused a major uproar in the Mexican press. Both local and federal authorities began investigations of the action and of the Sheraton María Isabel, located near the U.S. Embassy in central Mexico City. Although the orders were received from Sheraton U.S. headquarters, the Mexico City Sheraton is a business constituted in Mexico and subject to its laws. Mexico has refused to recognize the jurisdiction of the Helms-Burton Act in its territory. The Mexican government briefly closed the hotel for various infractions but later allowed it to reopen after levying a stiff fine for violation of the anti-discrimination law.

The U.S. Secretary of State issued a statement saying the action was not meant to “irritate our friends in Mexico,” but the eviction was considered a direct provocation to a nation with close historical ties to Cuba. It not surprisingly stirred up public indignation and calls for retaliation measures.

The U.S. Helms-Burton Act has been challenged by many countries for illegally seeking to impose the extraterritorial enforcement of U.S. law. It has rarely been enforced as aggressively as in the Mexico Sheraton case.

More:
http://americas.irc-online.org/am/3220

[DesertFlower]

38. Jesus H. Christ. nt

[RandomThoughts]

4. I posted earlier that it was a thoughtful comment by Clinton.

Her seeing that Cuba is using the Embargo to justify many of its policies.

Here is the thing, if they are using the embargo to justify their policies, then would not removing the embargo be best?

But at the same time removing the embargo does not elevate or hold our standard for democracies and human rights.


That is the argument about protectionism for moving a country in a direction. I have posted that countries that do not live up to certain base line standards should have a tax on their exports to our nation. The idea of avoiding race to the bottom. But what if such an action gives a bad leader a reason to bogeyman another group and stay in power.

Interesting concept.

You should use protectionism to advocate values.

Versus

Use of protectionism gives the country being taxed, or in cuba's case embargoed, claims of oppression.



What an interesting concept.

So maybe it should be so clear that it is about the standards within the society, that the leader can not use it as an excuse, but how could it be clear if there is controlled press, by money or fiat.

Wow that is interesting.

The other side of free trade argument is clearer by that example, while I say their needs to be a base line, the free traders use the argument that the people should not be punished, but any support to the people by having trade is siphoned to help maintain unjust control, so it does not help the people.

So then embargo's and protectionism, while trying to help the people. How can that be done, it can't if there is a mechanism between an outside government and the people of another country. That is the problem, if you can't reach the people by a regime using totalitarian methods, then any action with such a regime only perpetuates that control making more suffering over the long term.

Interestingly the concepts of protectionism, and free trade are clearer in my mind after that article.

[IndianaGreen]

21. More like the deranged rantings of a DLC neoliberal

Nothing short of permanent war can restore American hegemony to Latin America. Is that what we want, permanent war?

But at the same time removing the embargo does not elevate or hold our standard for democracies and human rights.

The American standard for democracies and human rights is to support rightwing thugs like Uribe in Colombia and topple democratically elected governments, as we recently did in Honduras.

[Judi Lynn]

37. The people who feel as Hillary does should push to remove the embargo.

Just strip away that embargo. Of COURSE it's not the U.S. who's been hanging on to it, that's not our style. This country is too big and generous to do something nasty, vicious, murderous to a small country just to make the citizens give up, and overturn the government they want, and beg to have the monsters with the racism, and the death squads back running the place, the Mafia running the hotels and casinos, just the way it was before the Cuban people couldn't take it any more and overthrew them.

That would make such great sense, wouldn't it?

Or, why not consider doing as the entire rest of the world represented at the United Nations with the exception of Israel, and the Marshall Islands (arm twisting, of course) has been asking for around 15 years annually at the General Assembly, and let Cuba live, if it's not just too damned hard to manage.

http://www.cubadebate.cu.nyud.net:8090/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/cuba-bloqueo-estados-unidos.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com.nyud.net:8090/_TdG-2Ry9_10/SuiRhY0xmlI/AAAAAAAAAug/mnd4P9BxpDM/s400/no_bloqueo_cuba.png

http://www.corbisimages.com.nyud.net:8090/images/67/45B22D64-D3AA-4AF5-A783-0D6FF46A6FCD/OF015020.jpg

Demonstration Against the American Embargo of Cuba
Demonstrators carry a Cuban flag through the streets of Havana in protest
against the United States policy of embargo and and isolation of Cuba.

http://www.radiomundial.com.ve.nyud.net:8090/yvke/files/img_noticia/t_condena_bloqueo_cuba_onu_2009_pres_140.jpg

2998 U.N. General Assembly vote regarding the US embargo on Cuba.

[totodeinhere]

63. Clinton was not talking about the embargo. She was talking about the..

"intransigent (and) entrenched regime" in Cuba. But it seems that every time we try to bring up the intransigence of that Communist regime, people like you try to change the subject. It's a nice try, but it doesn't work.

[EFerrari]

67. No, by her own logic, she should deprive the Cuban government

of the "excuse" she claims they are using.

And, btw, it's not "intransigence" to manage to survive attacks on your sovereignty by the American government.

[totodeinhere]

70. A communist dictatorship like that has no sovereignty. n/t

[EFerrari]

71. And that would be not only wrong but the excuse used for decades

to screw with many countries, wouldn't it?

Thanks for making it so plain.

[Mika]

78. Many Americans think that Cuba doesn't even have a right to its own sovereignty.

These are the type of Americans that the Cuban people threw out when they ousted the US backed blood soaked Batista dictatorship.

Intransigent? Only from a corporate perspective.

Before the 1959 revolution

75% of rural dwellings were huts made from palm trees.

More than 50% had no toilets of any kind.

85% had no inside running water.

91% had no electricity.

There was only 1 doctor per 2,000 people in rural areas.

More than one-third of the rural population had intestinal parasites.

Only 4% of Cuban peasants ate meat regularly; only 1% ate fish, less than 2% eggs, 3% bread, 11% milk; none ate green vegetables.

The average annual income among peasants was $91 (1956), less than 1/3 of the national income per person.

45% of the rural population was illiterate; 44% had never attended a school.

25% of the labor force was chronically unemployed.

1 million people were illiterate ( in a population of about 5.5 million).

27% of urban children, not to speak of 61% of rural children, were not attending school.

Racial discrimination was widespread.

The public school system had deteriorated badly.

Corruption was endemic; anyone could be bought, from a Supreme Court judge to a cop.

Police brutality and torture were common.

___



After the 1959 revolution
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/43b/185.html

“It is in some sense almost an anti-model,” according to Eric Swanson, the programme manager for the Bank’s Development Data Group, which compiled the WDI, a tome of almost 400 pages covering scores of economic, social, and environmental indicators.

Indeed, Cuba is living proof in many ways that the Bank’s dictum that economic growth is a pre-condition for improving the lives of the poor is over-stated, if not, downright wrong.

-

It has reduced its infant mortality rate from 11 per 1,000 births in 1990 to seven in 1999, which places it firmly in the ranks of the western industrialised nations. It now stands at six, according to Jo Ritzen, the Bank’s Vice President for Development Policy, who visited Cuba privately several months ago to see for himself.

By comparison, the infant mortality rate for Argentina stood at 18 in 1999;

Chile’s was down to ten; and Costa Rica, at 12. For the entire Latin American and Caribbean region as a whole, the average was 30 in 1999.

Similarly, the mortality rate for children under the age of five in Cuba has fallen from 13 to eight per thousand over the decade. That figure is 50% lower than the rate in Chile, the Latin American country closest to Cuba’s achievement. For the region as a whole, the average was 38 in 1999.

“Six for every 1,000 in infant mortality - the same level as Spain - is just unbelievable,” according to Ritzen, a former education minister in the Netherlands. “You observe it, and so you see that Cuba has done exceedingly well in the human development area.”

Indeed, in Ritzen’s own field, the figures tell much the same story. Net primary enrolment for both girls and boys reached 100% in 1997, up from 92% in 1990. That was as high as most developed nations - higher even than the US rate and well above 80-90% rates achieved by the most advanced Latin American countries.

“Even in education performance, Cuba’s is very much in tune with the developed world, and much higher than schools in, say, Argentina, Brazil, or Chile.”

It is no wonder, in some ways. Public spending on education in Cuba amounts to about 6.7% of gross national income, twice the proportion in other Latin American and Caribbean countries and even Singapore.

There were 12 primary school pupils for every Cuban teacher in 1997, a ratio that ranked with Sweden, rather than any other developing country. The Latin American and East Asian average was twice as high at 25 to one.

The average youth (age 15-24) illiteracy rate in Latin America and the Caribbean stands at 7%. In Cuba, the rate is zero. In Latin America, where the average is 7%, only Uruguay approaches that achievement, with one percent youth illiteracy.

“Cuba managed to reduce illiteracy from 40% to zero within ten years,” said Ritzen. “If Cuba shows that it is possible, it shifts the burden of proof to those who say it’s not possible.”

Similarly, Cuba devoted 9.1% of its gross domestic product (GDP) during the 1990s to health care, roughly equivalent to Canada’s rate. Its ratio of 5.3 doctors per 1,000 people was the highest in the world.

The question that these statistics pose, of course, is whether the Cuban experience can be replicated. The answer given here is probably not.

“What does it, is the incredible dedication,” according to Wayne Smith, who was head of the US Interests Section in Havana in the late 1970s and early 1980s and has travelled to the island many times since.

---

[EFerrari]

79. I was listening to a 2003 interview with Noam Chomsky last night.

He said that when the US plan to bomb Afghanistan was known, people in Latin America were polled. The question was, IF it is determined that Al Qaida in Afghanistan is responsible for 9/11 would you support bombing Afghanistan?

The support was very low. Mexico, 2%; Colombia 11%; Panama was the highest at 16% and that's probably because there is a large contingent of Americans there.

While most people polled thought 9/11 was an atrocity, they didn't support bombings that produced civilian casualties, having suffered so many of their own at American hands.

[The abyss]

5. ROFLOL “entrenched Cuba”

Human Rights? Can Hilary say abu ghraib?

[leeloo]

10. Can Hilary say abu ghraib?

Can Hillary say Abu Ghraib...Spellcheck is your friend,glad you left out the bitch comment this time....

[The abyss]

12. Yes I did leave that part out. This time

Thanks for catching that faux paux

[lib2DaBone]

6. Cuba has better health care than the USA....

Cuban doctors are working in Haiti aspart of the relief effort.

[DefenseLawyer]

7. I believe they also fluoridate their water

[leeloo]

8. POE..n/t

[subaltern]

17. that's the way your hardcore commie works. nt

[ngant17]

9. Pres. Kennedy was seeking to normalize relations

with Cuba in late 1963.

Since then, Cuba has been a victim of non-stop terrorist attacks originating from the shores of the US. Including biological warfare. The US must address the fact that, during the last 50 years, it has been responsible for hundreds of billions of dollars in damage to Cuba's infrastructure, loss of hundreds of innocent lives, and the indirect costs which the embargo is doing to further weaken Cuba's economy.

As for Cuba's development, the protection of Cuba's ecology is written into its constitution, so you can't just expect that Cuba will pursue development on the same level that takes place in the US.

[lib2DaBone]

11. Cuba is not the enemy.... the problem is....

...they have had the cajones to stand up to Goldman Sachs USA Banksters.

[Beacool]

46. COJONES!!

"Cajones" are drawers, as in a bureau, kitchen cabinet, etc.

Sorry, it drives me batty when people say cajones. LOL!!

:D

[leeloo]

14. Pres. Kennedy was seeking to normalize relations.

Was that after or before he was thinking of invading the country?

[EFerrari]

19. It was around the time of his assassination.

[Judi Lynn]

25. Exactly right! Couldn't have been much closer. Adds a real odd note to the timing, too. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

20. You should make the effort to stay conscious, research. These things have been discussed

at length time after time, written in books, portrayed on tv, debated on the internetS.

Kennedy Sought Dialogue with Cuba

INITIATIVE WITH CASTRO ABORTED BY ASSASSINATION,
DECLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS SHOW

Oval Office Tape Reveals Strategy to hold clandestine Meeting in Havana; Documents record role of ABC News correspondent Lisa Howard as secret intermediary in Rapprochement effort

Posted - November 24, 2003
Washington D.C. - On the 40th anniversary of the assassination of John F. Kennedy, and the eve of the broadcast of a new documentary film on Kennedy and Castro, the National Security Archive today posted an audio tape of the President and his national security advisor, McGeorge Bundy, discussing the possibility of a secret meeting in Havana with Castro. The tape, dated only seventeen days before Kennedy was shot in Dallas, records a briefing from Bundy on Castro's invitation to a U.S. official at the United Nations, William Attwood, to come to Havana for secret talks on improving relations with Washington. The tape captures President Kennedy's approval if official U.S. involvement could be plausibly denied.

The possibility of a meeting in Havana evolved from a shift in the President's thinking on the possibility of what declassified White House records called "an accommodation with Castro" in the aftermath of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Proposals from Bundy's office in the spring of 1963 called for pursuing "the sweet approach…enticing Castro over to us," as a potentially more successful policy than CIA covert efforts to overthrow his regime. Top Secret White House memos record Kennedy's position that "we should start thinking along more flexible lines" and that "the president, himself, is very interested in ." Castro, too, appeared interested. In a May 1963 ABC News special on Cuba, Castro told correspondent Lisa Howard that he considered a rapprochement with Washington "possible if the United States government wishes it. In that case," he said, "we would be agreed to seek and find a basis" for improved relations.

The untold story of the Kennedy-Castro effort to seek an accommodation is the subject of a new documentary film, KENNEDY AND CASTRO: THE SECRET HISTORY, broadcast on the Discovery/Times cable channel on November 25 at 8pm. The documentary film, which focuses on Ms. Howard's role as a secret intermediary in the effort toward dialogue, was based on an article -- "JFK and Castro: The Secret Quest for Accommodation" -- written by Archive Senior Analyst Peter Kornbluh in the magazine, Cigar Aficionado. Kornbluh served as consulting producer and provided key declassified documents that are highlighted in the film. "The documents show that JFK clearly wanted to change the framework of hostile U.S. relations with Cuba," according to Kornbluh. "His assassination, at the very moment this initiative was coming to fruition, leaves a major 'what if' in the ensuing history of the U.S. conflict with Cuba."

Among the key documents relevant to this history:

• Oval Office audio tape, November 5, 1963. The tape records a conversation between the President and McGeorge Bundy regarding Castro's invitation to William Attwood, a deputy to UN Ambassador Adlai Stevenson, to come to Cuba for secret talks. The President responds that Attwood should be taken off the U.S. payroll prior to such a meeting so that the White House can plausibly deny that any official talks have taken place if the meeting leaks to the press.
  
  
• White House memorandum, Top Secret, "Mr. Donovan's Trip to Cuba," March 4, 1963. This document records President Kennedy's interest in negotiations with Castro and his instructions to his staff to "start thinking along more flexible lines" on conditions for a dialogue with Cuba.
  
  
• White House memorandum, Top Secret, "Cuba -- Policy," April 11, 1963. A detailed options paper from Gordon Chase, the Latin America specialist on the National Security Council, to McGeorge Bundy recommending "looking seriously at the other side of the coin-quietly enticing Castro over to us."
  
  
• CIA briefing paper, Secret, "Interview of U.S. Newswoman with Fidel Castro Indicating Possible Interest in Rapprochement with the United States," May 1, 1963. A debriefing of Lisa Howard by CIA deputy director Richard Helms, regarding her ABC news interview with Castro and her opinion that he is "ready to discuss rapprochement." The document contains a notation, "Psaw," meaning President Kennedy read the report on Howard and Castro.
  
  
• U.S. UN Mission memorandum, Secret, Chronology of events leading up Castro invitation to receive a U.S. official for talks in Cuba, November 8, 22, 1963. This chronology was written by William Attwood and records the evolution of the initiative set in motion by Lisa Howard for a dialogue with Cuba. The document describes the party at Howard's Manhattan apartment on September 23, 1963, where Attwood met with Cuban UN Ambassador Carlos Lechuga to discuss the potential for formal talks to improve relations. In an addendum, Attwood adds information on communications, using the Howard home as a base, leading up to the day the President was shot in Dallas.
  
  
• White House memorandum, Secret, November 12, 1963. McGeorge Bundy reports to William Attwood on Kennedy's opinion of the viability of a secret meeting with Havana. The president prefers that the meeting take place in New York at the UN where it will be less likely to be leaked to the press.
  
  
• White House memorandum, Top Secret, "Approach to Castro," November 19, 1963. A memo from Gordon Chase to McGeorge Bundy updating him on the status of arrangements for a secret meeting with the Cubans.
  
  
• White House memorandum, Top Secret, "Cuba -- Item of Presidential Interest," November 25, 1963. A strategy memo from Gordon Chase to McGeorge Bundy assessing the problems and potential for pursuing the secret talks with Castro in the aftermath of Kennedy's assassination.
  
  
• Message from Fidel Castro to Lyndon Johnson, "Verbal Message given to Miss Lisa Howard of ABC News on February 12, 1964, in Havana, Cuba. " A private message carried by Howard to the White House in which Castro states that he would like the talks started with Kennedy to continue: "I seriously hope (and I cannot stress this too strongly) that Cuba and the United States can eventually sit down in an atmosphere of good will and of mutual respect and negotiate our differences."
  
  
• United Nations memorandum, Top Secret, from Adlai Stevenson to President Johnson, June 16, 1964. Stevenson sends the "verbal message" given to Lisa Howard to Johnson with a cover memo briefing him on the dialogue started under Kennedy and suggesting consideration of resumption of talks "on a low enough level to avoid any possible embarrassment."
  
  
• White House memorandum, Top Secret, "Adlai Stevenson and Lisa Howard," July 7, 1964. Gordon Chase reports to Bundy on his concerns that Howard's role as an intermediary has now escalated through her contact with Stevenson at the United Nations and the fact that a message has been sent back through her to Castro from the White House. Chase recommends trying "to remove Lisa from direct participation in the business of passing messages," and using Cuban Ambassador to the UN, Carlos Lechuga, instead.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB103/index.htm

[leeloo]

26. Are you suggesting,he was killed because,

he wanted to normalise relations with a backwards little country?

[EFerrari]

34. There were people in this country that hated Kennedy

with spitting freeper hatred for the Bay of Pigs.

[harmonicon]

59. just a backwards little country...

with a better healthcare and education system than the US. I guess caring for the poor, social equality, and 100% literacy rates are backwards.

[Grinchie]

52. Nice try, look at when the Bay of Pigs occurred, and then look at the date.

I'm sure he planned the Invasion to occur a couple of month after his inaguration...

Plenty of time to prepare, right>?

[Judi Lynn]

13. God,that's such an old slimy claim, and she's spewing something which has been claimed

by the GUSANO grifters in Miami for years and years and years.

As IF Cuba would be in these dire economic straights WITHOUT the embargo! Oh, ho ho ho ho ho. Vomit.

She should have ALSO admitted her dirtball brother is married to a hefty Cuban "exile" who is an attorney who works in immigration matters in Miami, herself a loud, pushy big (fat, as well) shot in the hardliner hog Miami community.

~snip~
Similar to what happened with Iraq, where a disgruntled contingent of an exile community spun its own "intelligence" that helped lead us down the path of war, through Democratic and Republican administrations alike, the United States has allowed and underwritten a wealthy, politically entrenched subset of hardline, pro-embargo Cuban-Americans determine policy despite the best interests of much larger sectors of the population.

While Cuba evolves, U.S. policy will remain static as long as this special interest group sets the terms by which any opening can occur. These hardliners know U.S. ultimatums will never work to bring change to Cuba; they don't expect them to. The hardliners' goal is to punish the perpetrators of the Cuban revolution and create the chaos and institutional breakdown in Cuba that might allow them to regain a foothold on the lost island of their fantasies.

It's curious that the policy of our nation is set by members of Congress who have never set foot on the island, and Cuban-Americans who fled a civil war for the safety of U.S. shores so long ago

The United States has, in part, been unwittingly ensconced in a small-time family-feud with Fidel Castro. After all, the father of two members of the U.S. House of Representatives from Florida — Republicans Lincoln Diaz Balart and Mario Diaz Balart — was a close cabinet confidant to former Cuban dictator Fulgencio Batista, whom the Revolution threw out. Their aunt was Castro's first wife, Mirta Diaz Balart, who left Cuba with Fidel's first son, initiating a custody battle that eerily presaged the crisis over the custody and residency of young Elian Gonzalez eight years ago.

Even Hillary Clinton's sister-in-law, Maria Victoria Arias, is a pro-embargo Cuban-American Miami lawyer responsible for the Clintons' campaign contributions and consequently hard-line views on Cuba. Florida Governor Jeb Bush, President George W. Bush's brother, ran the campaign for Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, the first Cuban American member of Congress.

http://www.fpif.org/articles/getting_smart_about_cuba

~~~~~
Regarding Bill Clinton, reference Maria Victoria Arias:

Four years ago, senior State Department diplomats hoped Clinton would breathe fresh air into U.S.-Cuban relations. Miami's fiercely anti-Castro Cuban-American community had long blocked any thaw, though the Pentagon had concluded that Havana posed no threat to the region, and Washington had made peace with almost all its cold war enemies. But half a dozen Cuban-American Democrats who raised huge sums for Clinton in 1992 convinced the new President he could win Florida in '96 if he became even more anti-Castro than Ronald Reagan or George Bush had been.

Senior Clinton aides call the cabal the "core group." It includes Maria Victoria Arias, a Miami lawyer married to Hugh Rodham, the First Lady's brother; and wealthy businessman Paul Cejas, who occasionally stays overnight at the White House. Arias telephones Hillary frequently and often sends Clinton clippings from Florida newspapers. In regular meetings at the Colonnade Hotel in Coral Gables or at Little Havana's Versailles Restaurant, the core group plans strategy and prepares appeals, which are sent by way of private notes to Clinton's top political aides. "When an issue comes up, we try to get a consensus and present a united front," says core-group member Simon Ferro, a Miami Democratic activist.

Clinton came to the Oval Office with his own Castro obsession. In 1980 he lost re-election as Governor partly because Cuban refugees rioted at an Arkansas Army post. As President he ordered the CIA to estimate the chances of an upheaval in Cuba during his first term: the agency said better than fifty-fifty. Clinton aides later pressed the cia to fund Cuban dissidents secretly. Burned by a dirty-tricks campaign against Castro in the '60s, the agency sidetracked the idea.

Clinton's foreign policy toward Cuba soon became snarled in bureaucratic battles between Administration hard-liners and moderates. In 1994 Castro allowed 33,000 Cubans to flee to South Florida, and the Administration began discouraging more escapees by detaining the rafters indefinitely at the U.S. naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The core group urged Clinton to punish Havana by halting airline flights to Cuba, but State Department moderates lobbied to maintain informal exchanges, including charter flights. Morton Halperin, the National Security Council's point man on Cuba, circulated a draft presidential speech offering carrots to Castro if he adopted reforms. Hard-liners, led by the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Latin America, Michael Skol, allied themselves with the core group and launched a guerrilla war against the conciliatory moves. Clinton shelved the carrots and embarked on the hard line.

By January 1995 the U.S. Atlantic Command chief, General John Sheehan, who had pressed to ease tensions with Havana, began badgering the White House to clear out the 20,000 Cubans at Guantanamo. Riots were possible, he warned, and by his staff's estimate, a permanent refugee camp would cost some $2 billion. Three months later, partly with that figure as ammunition, Administration moderates staged a policy coup. Under Secretary of State Peter Tarnoff began secretly talking to Ricardo Alarcon, president of Cuba's legislature. The Guantanamo refugees would be sent to Florida. To stanch any new exodus, U.S. Coast Guard boats would intercept future rafters at sea and return them to Cuba on condition that the regime not punish them.

So that no one would catch on, Tarnoff had his wife book his airline ticket to Toronto, where he met with Alarcon in a hotel room to sign the deal. Tarnoff and Halperin were afraid the Cuban Americans might try to scuttle the talks. Indeed, a decision memo had to be sent to Clinton three times before he finally agreed to keep the negotiations secret from the core group. When the agreement was announced, however, angry Cuban Americans poured into the streets of Miami, and the core group retaliated by having Clinton oust Halperin as Cuba point man. The core group then hovered over every inch of policy. A Clinton speech in October 1995 announcing minor cultural exchanges took three months of vetting.

Meanwhile, hard-liners in Havana and Miami were edging both countries toward a crisis. Planes from Brothers to the Rescue, based in Miami, began buzzing Havana, dropping propaganda leaflets. Castro fired off angry notes to Washington warning "deadly force" would be used unless the flights stopped. In January, U.S. intelligence agencies spotted Cuban MiGs test-firing air-to-air missiles and practicing maneuvers to attack slow-moving aircraft similar to the Brothers' planes. The State Department, however, did not believe Castro would attack.

More:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,985376-1,00.html

http://www.salon.com.nyud.net:8090/news/politics/feature/2001/02/23/pardon/story.jpg

Hugh Rodham, and his brother-in-law.

http://mensual.prensa.com.nyud.net:8090/mensual/contenido/2005/12/02/hoy/fotos/597188.jpg

Maria Victoria Arias-Rodham with her family, and on the right side
of the photo, Billy Arias, Raúl Montenegro y Elvirita V. de Arias.

http://ediciones.prensa.com.nyud.net:8090/mensual/contenido/2004/01/12/hoy/fotos/295863.jpg

Charlotte de Spiegel y
María Victoria Arias-Rodham

Another photo on this page:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19940215&id=VfsNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=rnsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6870,5848363

~snip~
However, the Clintons themselves have a family connection to right-wing Cuban Americans. Hillary Rodham Clinton's brother Hugh is married to María Victoria Arias, a Republican who mobilized for Clinton in Florida with groups such as Cuban American Women for Clinton. Hugh Rodham and Hillary's other brother, Tony, also worked for Clinton among Republican Cubans. They expect more Cubans to switch parties now that Clinton has the Presidency.

http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~hbf/canf.htm

[The abyss]

16. Amping up for Judi's comments & background

[leeloo]

18. You is funny.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leeloo]

29. Really they would ban me because,i disagree with you ??

[The abyss]

32. Hey back at ya

:hi:

I seem to have always been late for dinner.

[Grinchie]

53. LOOK AT THE BELLY ON THAT PIG!

I would safely say the Hugh Rodham is Morbidly Obese. Nothing like not knowing when to seek help and keep consuming like there is no tomorrow..

[EFerrari]

28. It took less than 18 months for this State Department to lose all credibility

in Latin America. What a terrible shame this is.

[IndianaGreen]

30. US role in the Honduran coup stripped away what little credibility there was

What we got here is a sugar coated version of Bush/Cheney imperialism.

[Judi Lynn]

33. Absolutely unbearable to see this from a Democratic President, isn't it?

I think they've even got John Negroponte flapping around there in the Latin America section of the State Department, too.

We all know how much good he did as a death-squad aficionado in Honduras.

[EFerrari]

35. Have you been reading about Honduras? We're helping the coup set up

a fake truth commission. It's nauseating. DUer Downwinder put up a link to a narco news piece that is devastating.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x34242

[Grinchie]

54. It's no surprise.. After All, a DLC Stooge is the Secretary of Sate.

It's exactly to be expected if you ask me..

But I doubt that they realize that the Citizens will not support the hawakish road taken. No Way, No How.

They can start all the little wars they want to, but sooner or later the prinitng press is going to become ineffective.

[Greyhound]

62. One thing you can say about this administration, they may do the wrong things,

for the wrong reasons, but they sure do 'em fast.

B. Clinton took over two years before throwing the whole party overboard.

[EFerrari]

66. I would like to see what Hillary would have to say if a Latin American leader

rounded up a subset of the population, walled them in and denied them adequate food, water, medicine, clothing and shelter for years, built on their confiscated lands and bombed them while denying the press access.

The way this administration talks about Latin America and Latinos is problematic, to say the least. It's also politically shortsighted.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

36. "Cuba's leaders do not want to normalise ties with the US because then...

...they would lose their excuse for the state of the country"

Well, gee, Ms SoS, then why not really screw with those dirty commies by ending the embargo they love SO much?

[Judi Lynn]

41. That'd by god show 'em! Let's do that & see what excuse they come up with next. n/t

http://rreloj.files.wordpress.com.nyud.net:8090/2009/01/bloqueo.jpg

[ThomThom]

39. I don't think Cuba would be "entrenched" if not for us.

Isolation has worked very well, Hillary

[Yeahyeah]

40. Didn't her husband just have to apologize for treating Haiti so normally?

Why can't Cuba look at Haiti with jealousy and say "We want to be normal with Uncle Sam so we can be like Haiti."?

[Judi Lynn]

42. I learned around 2000 there are a lot of Haitian people living in Cuba now!

A lot of them moved to the area around Camagüey, and there's a Haitian Creole lanaguage radio station in Havana, too. In 2000, a Florida university professor went to Cuba to study the advent of Haitians in Cuba, their culture, etc. That's when I heard about it, as it was covered in a Florida paper I saw online.

http://edition.cnn.com.nyud.net:8090/WORLD/9801/23/pope/cuba.havana.camaguey.jpg
They have a world-famous a capella singing group, Desandann.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com.nyud.net:8090/3317/3644758069_19bdb6ae79.jpg

[EFerrari]

43. Or at our "best friend", Colombia, where a mass grave has been found

just outside an army base where US forces were working a joint mission with the Colombians? Bill Clinton goes to Colombia to promote "free trade" now and then, maybe next time he's there, he can go take a look at La Macarena and let us know how our "partners" are doing.

[AnOhioan]

44. Very helpful Hillary....

not.


This is yet one more reason the Dems are shooting themselves in the foot.

[madrchsod]

45. hillary is`t up on her current events is she...

[Grinchie]

55. Hilary's up on her Med's, That's about it. N/T

[Blue_Tires]

47. So Cuba doesn't want normalized trade relations?

Who knew?

:sarcasm:

[troubledamerican]

48. "Blame the victim" politics worthy of Kissinger & Cheney

and pandering to the Right-Wing.

[harun]

57. +1

[Nihil]

82. "pandering to" the Right-Wing?

More like "speaking from" it ... not that anyone should be surprised ...
:shrug:

[David__77]

49. "Entrenched" = Impervious to US destabilization attempts.

The wall of steel preventing "regime change" is the popular support of the Cuban people to oppose foreign interference.

[dipsydoodle]

56. They do say

Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned / Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned.

And she should know. :rofl:

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

60. Don't normalize relations because of lack of human rights?

But support diplomatic relations with other countries because their human rights are celebrated:
China
India
Saudi Arabia
Iraq

It's gotta be something else holding back relations with Cuba. I'd guess Florida politics may play some small part.

:hi:

[totodeinhere]

65. Well yea. If the Dems had paid more attention to Florida politics in 2000 then we would have won..

Florida by a big enough margin so that the GOP would not have been able to steal the election. And this country would be so much better off not having had to endure Bush for eight years.

[Bragi]

61. Blaming the victims, chapter 345 /nt

[Paladin]

64. Try Harder, Ms. Clinton....... (n/t)

[Zorro]

68. US-Cuba relations will not change until the Castros are gone

Last year Cuba even rejected offers to rejoin the OAS, much to the embarrassment of his admirers in that organization.

Fidel has been consistently anti-US for decades, and that longstanding hallmark of Cuban foreign policy will continue until he finally takes his dirt nap.

[EFerrari]

69. The OAS is moribund and, if this administration keeps its present course,

will be pushing up daisies before President Castro leaves us. Cuba was right and no, there was no "embarrassment" among Cuba's allies -- who are at the moment developing networks that work around the United States.

People are tired of kissing the ring that is used to screw them. Who can blame them.

[dipsydoodle]

72. Too right

It's only the USA and a couple of its lackies who won't deal with Cuba.

Now it's 100% with the EU it would surprise me at all to see the ultra cheap and basic Renaults, which are generally only for sale in eastern Europe, showing up there. Great holiday spot for Eurpeans too.

[EFerrari]

75. What gets to me was that after Junior, we had a real opportunity

to do something different. There was a real sense of hopefulness in Latin America. It would have made Obama's legacy right there. Not to become best friends with Cuba or Venezuela but, to begin a dialogue on a different, unabusive footing.

[dipsydoodle]

76. Absolutely correct.

BTW - I should'vbe said wouldn't surprise me ref. the Renaults which cannot even be sold in Western Europe - at c. £3000 /c. US$4500 would disrupt the market.

Should also have said :hi:

[boppers]

73. The same Cuba that arrests people for bringing in phones and internet hookups....

This whole mess is just plain stupid, with both sides acting like petulant children and blaming each other for starting it... meanwhile, the whole "it's an embargo"/"no it's not" mess means that there's a bizarre mixture where we're a big trading partner with Cuba, but everyone denies it's happening, because that would end the political game.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/36022
http://www.economist.com/world/americas/displayStory.cfm?story_id=11920925
http://www.autentico.org/oa09537.php

[Mika]

80. Only limited exemptions on trade with Cuba, all requiring Treasury Dept OFAC approval.

Only a limited number of licenses are issued by OFAC every year.

Cuba has to pay US vendors in cash prior to shipping - the only country the US requires this from.

There is no "free trade" with Cuba.

The ban on 3rd country shippers is still in effect. That means that any transport ship that has entered a Cuban port is banned from porting in the US for 6 months (only US shippers can get OFAC approval). That seriously impedes normal shipping to/from Cuba and radically increases shipping costs on any products shipped to Cuba.

And still to this day, US citizens and residents, of non Cuban decent, are relegated to 2nd class status by the US gov by being travel banned from unfettered travel to Cuba.

US citizens and residents of Cuban decent are endowed with their full US constitutional rights - they can travel anywhere including Cuba.

---

[boppers]

81. It's a total mess.

It'll take some work to clear up.

[Odin2005]

74. This thread isn't going too well.

Cuba is one of those topics that brings out the ideologues on all sides.

[niceypoo]

77. The Cuba embargo is about the stupidest policy ever

We even kissed and made up with Vietnam. Our policies over the last 50 years have kept Cuba where they are today. Best thing we could ever do for Cuba is normalize relations.

[jmcauliff]

83. Obama Can Pivot in Miami this week

Secretary Clinton's unprepared answer in Louisville revealed she is trapped in the past, and perhaps the bias of her Cuban American sister-in-law.

President Obama will be in Miami this week. There's no better place to do a course correction by ending the rest of restrictions on non-tourist travel (educational, cultural, etc.)

http://thehavananote.com/2010/04/miami_offers_an_opportunity_fo.html

[EFerrari]

86. Welcome to DU. He won't. He usually speaks to the far right groups there.

So, Secretary Clinton seems to be doing a good job of iterating the administration's policy.

[SOS]

84. So "human rights" is the reason for the embargo?

Interesting.

Now let's see Clinton call for trade embargoes with two of the most brutal and repressive regimes on earth:
Saudi Arabia and Equatorial Guinea.

"We won't buy your oil until you stop torturing and murdering your citizens!"

:rofl:

[mdmc]

85. Heck'uva Job HRC