Explosions hit Kandahar, 2 dead

[Robb]

Source: Arab News (AP)

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan: Three explosions struck Kandahar on Monday morning, killing two civilians amid a wave of violence that has swept the key southern Afghan city where the US is planning an offensive to clear out the Taleban.

(snip)

Kandahar is the largest city in southern Afghanistan and the birthplace of the Taleban, which still has considerable support here. A US-led operation planned for this summer aims to clear Kandahar of Taleban fighters and break the grip of warlords who have allowed the fighters to slip back in.

President Barack Obama has ordered 30,000 more troops into Afghanistan, in part to back up the Kandahar offensive. The operation will be a critical test of the Afghan war.

But the Taleban have launched increasingly deadly attacks ahead of the offensive. Since April 12, at least 20 civilians have been killed in Kandahar, including children. Aid workers also have been targeted.

Read more: http://arabnews.com/world/article47491.ece

[tekisui]

1. The UN pulled their foreign staff from Kandahar and told the locals

to stay home. I can't begin to imagine the anxiety of the people living in Kandahar knowing what is fast approaching.

[Robb]

2. With the Taliban bombing anyone they want

...you really think they're concerned about the arrival of NATO troops who are after the Taliban??

[tekisui]

5. 85% in Kandahar regard the Taliban as their Afghan brothers.

95% in Kandahar prefer peace talks over US/NATO war.

An opinion survey of Afghanistan's Kandahar province funded by the U.S. Army has revealed that 94 percent of respondents support negotiating with the Taliban over military confrontation with the insurgent group and 85 percent regard the Taliban as "our Afghan brothers".

(snip)

Ninety-one percent of the respondents supported the convening of a "Loya Jirga", or "grand assembly" of leaders as a way of ending the conflict, with 54 percent "strongly" supporting it, and 37 percent "somewhat" supporting it. That figure appears to reflect support for President Karzai's proposal for a "peace Jirga" in which the Taliban would be invited to participate.

(snip)

The report of the Glevum survey revealed that more people in Kandahar regard checkpoints maintained by the Afghan National Army (ANA) and Afghan National Police (ANP) and ANA and ANP vehicles as the biggest threat to their security while traveling than identified either Taliban roadside bombs or Taliban checkpoints as the main threat.

Fifty-eight percent of the respondents in the survey said the biggest threat to their security while traveling were the ANA and ANP checkpoints on the road, and 56 percent said ANA/ANP vehicles were the biggest threat. Only 44 percent identified roadside bombs as the biggest threat – the same percentage of respondents who regard convoys of the International Security Assistance Force – the NATO command under Gen. McChrystal – as the primary threat to their security.

Only 37 percent of the respondents regarded Taliban checkpoints as the main threat to their security.

In Kandahar City, the main target of the coming U.S. military offensive in Kandahar, the gap between perceptions of threats to travel security from government forces and from the Taliban is even wider.

Sixty-five percent of the respondents in Kandahar City said they regard ANA/ANP checkpoints as the main threat to their security, whereas roadside bombs are the main problem for 42 percent of the respondents.

The survey supports the U.S. military's suspicion that the transgressions of local officials of the Afghan government, who are linked mainly to President Karzai’s brother, Ahmed Wali Karzai, the head of the Kandahar province council and the main warlord in the province, have pushed the population into the arms of the Taliban.

An overwhelming 84 percent of the respondents agreed that corruption is the main cause of the conflict, and two-thirds agreed that government corruption "makes us look elsewhere". That language used in the questionnaire was obviously intended to allow respondents to hint that they were supporting the Taliban insurgents in response to the corruption, without saying so explicitly.

More than half the respondents (53 percent) endorsed the statement that the Taliban are "incorruptible".

more: http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=51089

[Flaneur]

7. Do you think they're not?

Afghans have had such a pleasant experience with their foreign occupiers.

[Robb]

10. Foreign occupiers such as the Pakistan Taliban?

Your myopia is showing. Don't forget how the Taliban seized power in the first place.

[Flaneur]

13. No, I refer to the 100,000 or so Western troops, and the like number of contractors.

Are you trying to argue that the Taliban are a foreign import?

Yes, they had support from Pakistan, but they are clearly Afghan, except in the case of Pakistani Pashtuns. And you know those Pashtuns--they don't give two shits about borders imposed by colonial powers.

Your Taliban as foreign invader meme is pretty weak.

[Robb]

18. I actually *do* know Pashtuns, yes.

And your history, being generous here, is a little thin.

[Bragi]

23. The Taliban are indigenous Pashtuns

If you are claiming that the Taliban are foreign to Afghanistan, then I'd say it is your history that's a tad thin.

Or maybe I misunderstood you.

[Robb]

28. In the 1990s

You had Pakistani Deobandi Muslims training and fighting with the local Taliban in an effort to push out the "Northern Alliance." Ahl-e Hadith as well. In fact, by the time 1996 and all its fun came around, there were as many Punjabi jihadi in Afghanistan Taliban leadership positions as locals.

The advantage was obvious; network and influence. Groups like those that eventually became Tehrik-e-Taliban had the Pakistan government's blind eye, if not outright support -- part of the deep strategy for keeping the Indians at bay. They brought the lion's share of weapons, they brought manpower, and they brought the connections to Middle East money.

So yes, the Taliban is an indigenous movement, but we would likely never even have heard of it had it not been for the foreign groups which came to represent the bulk of its makeup.

[Flaneur]

8. And the US death squads running around town.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/26/world/asia/26kandahar.html?pagewanted=2&ref=asia

Small bands of elite American Special Operations forces have been operating with increased intensity for several weeks in Kandahar, southern Afghanistan’s largest city, picking up or picking off insurgent leaders to weaken the Taliban in advance of major operations, senior administration and military officials say.

<snip>

These are the same Special Forces linked to repeated killings of civilians.

Well, yes, I guess they are concerned. More from the same article:

<snip>

Rather than civil assistance, many residents fear only military action. Already in Kandahar, many locals view Afghan and NATO checkpoints and convoys as great a danger on the roads as Taliban bombs and checkpoints.

“Instead of bringing people close to the government,” cautioned Haji Mukhtar, a Kandahar Provincial Council member, more combat “will cause people to stay further from the government and hate the foreigners more.”

<snip>

[Bragi]

24. U.S. death squads. Change we can believe in. /nt

[tekisui]

31. Death Squads, assassination orders and record use of drone strikes!

[Soylent Brice]

3. .

[Bragi]

4. Obama's escalation is bearing fruit

Sorry, but that's the reality here. Obama now owns this pointless war, which he is stupidly escalating.

The only things we can predict for sure are 1) that more Afghanis and US troops will die unnecessarily before the foreign troops leave, and 2) the tribal warlords, drug kingpins, thieves and religious zealots who have been running the place for about 200 years will resume running the country 10 minutes after Obama vacates the place.

Troops out now!

[tekisui]

6. A lot of diseased, rotten and dying fruit.

[Robb]

9. I'm glad your opinion is a minority.

[tekisui]

11. You support the war, I understand.

In UK and Germany over 75% are against the war. The majority of Afghans are against the war. Support in the US is falling, as well. I think the minority is those who still defend the war.

[Robb]

12. In your mind, perhaps.

Support in the US http://people-press.org/report/?pageid=1684">continues to increase.

[Flaneur]

14. Hmmm, your poll shows declining sentiment that this will end well.

62% in January 2009, 58% in March 2010.

But let's check back in the fall and see how things look after the long, hot summer. That's when the bodies really start falling. Things are kind of slow now, what with the opium harvest and all.

[Robb]

15. LOL Pick out whatever you need

...to support your fantasy.

Edited to add: In general, contempt for the truth isn't considered particularly progressive.

[tekisui]

27. Isn't that what you did?

Picked out what you needed, but ignored the point the previous poster made?

[Bragi]

20. The U.S has goals there? Wonder what they are? /nt

[tekisui]

22. The goals are whatever the Administration and the Pentagon

think will keep the US public complicit. It changes with the winds.

[tekisui]

21. So,the only population that supports the war in a majority is the US?

You know that the majority of Dems are not in support. You and your buddies have joined with the repubs in solid support of the war. Pride yourself on that position, if you like. I prefer to stand against this wasteful war.

[Robb]

25. God forbid you apologize for making something up.

Or even "huh, guess I was wrong. Doesn't change my opinion." Instead, it's just one dishonest argument after another.

What's next? "Robb voted for McCain?" :rofl:

Ooh, I know. Maybe say something so outrageous the whole thread gets deleted. Then no one will ever see it!

[tekisui]

26. I don't even know what the hell you are talking about.

[Robb]

29. You said support in the US is failing. That is the opposite of the truth.

It's right up there. Too late to edit.

[tekisui]

30. No need to edit:

You gave me a good chart. 62 to 58 from Jan 09 to Mar 10 US will achieve goals.

[Robb]

32. Ignore everything else, and pick what you want.

Even Cheney couldn't weave like that. :applause:

[tekisui]

33. You did the same.

:shrug:

Keep on loving that war. Applaud it and laugh at it. One day, you (and some president done the road) will realize the futility and stupidity of this war.

[Robb]

34. I'm really only laughing at you because you just came in late.

...And you act like you didn't. You only think it's futile and stupid now. You've only just started paying attention.

To be clear, I'm not giving this President credit for the recent moves. Nothing in his background tells me he's been paying any more attention that most Americans. But whoever Obama's listening to these days absolutely gets it. All of it. The past few months have been brilliant, relatively speaking. Crack a book or two and you'll agree.

In non-relative terms, it's just barely working. And in this part of the world, that's brilliant.

[tekisui]

35. You don't know when I started paying attention or what I have read.

I have actually read many books on the Taliban and Afghanistan.

I see the opposite, though.

I see the US trying very hard to establish a central government. There have been some positive steps towards that. But, Afghanistan has suffered from a lack of central power for decades. I am not sure it is something that can be brought in. The government-in-a-box is, at best, temporary, I think. The government that we are defending and protecting is seen as wholly corrupt, as they are. We are stuck in a no-win situation of backing a horrible regime.

'Working' in Afghanistan is a tenuous and temporary effort. One day, we will leave, and the hell will continue. It takes an incredible amount of arrogance to think that we can fix the problems in Afghanistan. We would be better off supporting them financially and socially, without the military presence. I sincerely fear that our presence and the inevitable mistakes that follow will foment a backlash.

We saw this yesterday, when a civilian protest against erroneous, deadly night raids led to the torching of 10 NATO oil tankers.

[Robb]

36. See, that's exactly my point.

No, I don't know. Of course. But you talk about supporting them financially and socially, without the military presence: the very idea of that ignores so much about the financial and social fabric there, it borders on tone deafness. Look, in a previous life I was a lot more involved with this part of the world than anyone rational needs to be. Maybe I've got more sophisticated filters because of it.

Yesterday's protest was a farce. Did you catch any of the video? Did you notice what language those guys were yelling? It was about as grassroots as the Pepsi Challenge. It was the AfPak version of the Brooks Brothers Riot.

They weren't protesting all night raids, just the one that had just happened. They said as much. And the guys that were killed in the raid they were supposedly protesting? Haqqani network guys, each one. Pakistanis. They were all IDed. They had passports for crying out loud. The notion that they were innocent civilians is a fiction that hangs by the flimsiest of threads, and is written in Urdu.

But some are so blinded by their conviction that nothing works out there that they ignore what's right in front of them. Or they aren't paying attention. Like repeating the foolish notion that the US plan is to leave Karzai in charge, the exact opposite (as I've even pointed out) of what this administration is moving toward. There are a handful of good people in his cabinet, and their stars are rising, if you follow.

There's an astonishing level of thoughtfulness in the current approach that is being willfully ignored

[elias49]

16. In their wildest dreams

the Taleban can't hope to do as much damage to Afghanistan as the U.S. and its 'NATO allies'
Afghan Taleban, Pakistani Taleban, Martian Taleban...
More civilians have died in Iraq since April 12, and that's a 'war' that's already WON, I guess.
Can't wait for the early summer carnage:sarcasm:

[Robb]

17. Conflating Iraq and Afghanistan?

Been a while since I've seen that done. Bravo.

[elias49]

19. Glad to oblige n/t