US urges calm after slaying (Sheik Yassin assassinated)

[smallprint]

THE United States has urged all parties in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to remain calm and show restraint after the assassination of Hamas spiritual leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin.

...

"We are looking into the circumstances and are in touch with Israeli and Palestinians authorities," the official said.

...

The Ezzedin al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas' military wing, vowed to avenge the killing by taking action that would be "like an earthquake".



more:
http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story.jsp?sectionid=1274&storyid=1077799


on edit:
A previous article about this was moved to I/P already. However, this one involves the U.S. State Dept-- I assume it's therefore appropriate for LBN, not I/P. Mods feel free to move otherwise.

[mobuto]

1. Calm and Restraint?

Somehow I have a hard time seeing calm and restraint resulting from the death of poor Mr. Yassin.

[IndianaGreen]

3. Hamas was supported and encouraged by Israel

Encouraged by Israel

Back in Gaza, Yasin founded his own movement, al-Mujama al-Islami, in the 1970s and began recruiting young activists.

At the time, Israel tacitly encouraged the growth of Islamist opposition groups in Gaza as a counterweight to the secular militancy of Yasir Arafat's revolutionary Fatah movement.

Hamas was allowed to open mosques, hospitals, and libraries among other philanthropic work. The movement was used by the Israelis to discredit Arafat’s leadership which was in exile in Tunisia at the time.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/423AA473-C2C3-4063-901D-5FBBDEFA1D6D.htm

Blowback!

[still_one]

11. The main issue is that

when Clinton left office he almost had an agreement between the Israel and the Palestinians. When Bush won, did he take over where Clinton left off? NO, instead he ignored the whole situation for 9 months, and now it is in shambles

Hamas was supported by Israel, until Hamas called for its destruction, and started suicide bombings. Ahmed Yassin is directly responsible for encouraging this, and rejecting Oslo and other negotiations

We better get a president who will get people back to the negotiating tables

You can rest assurred that if bush wins we will be in a major war in his second term!

[Rationality]

22. This won't be easy

It's going to be a long month in Israel and Palestine. Hope or pray for their safety and that any reason remaining in the minds of the people prevail.

[bluestateguy]

2. Um, that's not going to happen

Let me suggest a few words of advice that the United states does not often like to hear:

"Mind your own business"

We have our own Middle East clusterfuck and we need not get involved in another one. The Israelis can handle it. As they should.

[Sugarbleus]

101. The Palestinians have vowed to not only reak havoc on

Israel, but they also mentioned "coming after us" too (paraphrased by me).........this killing is not good any way you look at it.

Sooooooooooo, what's going to happen NEXT in this ever growing smaller world?!

Whoever steps into the white house (excluding bush) is going to have one hell of a mess on their hands. No question about it.

I haven't had a drink since 1985, I think I'll buy a bottle of something this week. :beer:


edited for smilie

[keithyboy]

117. Stop this kind of talk immediately!!! The world is safer with Saddam gone

I am totally shocked by you people here at DU! Your exhalted leader and his gang have told you not once but many times that the world is better off with Saddam captured.

I just wonder who is going to "capture" Bush. Then the world would truly be safer!

[Sugarbleus]

182. LOL...thanks for reminding me...hehehe n/t

[PaDUer]

167. Yup...

this was said awhile ago..they'll get Israel and then US.. Hell, we can't have that money wasted on those underground caves they built for a nuk-ler attack, can we!

[Layman]

188. Let me suggest a few words of advice

If you want to promote your man Kerry I suggest you delete his banner when you post such lines as, "The Israelis can handle it. As they should." Unfettered Zionism is not real popular in these parts.

[heidler]

4. What was wrong with calm and restraint before he was killed?

[daleo]

5. U.S. soldiers in Iraq will be affected whether they like it or not

It seems likely to me that some revenge over this will be directed their way. I wonder if Sharon had informed Bush of the plan ahead of time. Not that there is a good answer to that question.

[Aussie_Hillbilly]

6. LOL

Restraint? From Hamas? Fat chance.
Those scum are just as blood-crazed as Likud and Shas.

Although it is interesting that Yassin was killed while he was talking about negotiations and taking part in elections. Can't have any of that, can we?

I sincerely hope this weakens Hamas's destructive influence, but I fear the opposite is true.

[Rationality]

25. In all likelihood, this will be one of Israel's darkest hours (n/t)

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[progressivebydesign]

7. All hell will break lose now...

.. I haven't a lot of background on the man they assasinated.. but to many, it will be considered a crime against humanity, and geez.. he was in a wheelchair. the whole article I read about them picking up body parts will go over really badly with the supporters of this man. Powder keg.. we have a fucking ignoramous as a president, and the Middle East is basically.. Powder Keg meet Match.

[still_one]

16. What about the Russian teenagers that were slaughtered

by a suicide bomber in a club several years ago. Who picked up there body parts. Ahmed Yassin has a long history of blood on his hands.

What will Hamas do? They were already calling for the destruction of Israel!

This is a spiritual leader with the kindness of bin Laden!

[Baclava]

59. He was an oxygen thief...

www.muslimedia.com/archives/oaw99/yassin.htm

Shaikh Yassin declares jihad against Palestine 'peace' moves

"What I want is not a meaningless and weak state shredded into bits by settlements but a victorious and sovereign one capable of waging jihad”

"We will never surrender a single grain of our soil or a drop of our water as well as our seas. We consider Palestine to be Islamic from the river to the sea."


I got your jihad right here...

[Joanne98]

8. Yeah right

Like anybody is going to listen to them.

[thebigidea]

9. you mean like the Pope & the rest of the world called on US to be calm?

like the UN called for inspections, not invasion?

buncha hypocrites.

[Chicago Democrat]

10. This Blood is on Bush's Hands!

Bush has let the Sharon fascist regime run amok and I blame Bush first, then Sharon, then the Israeli Army. While I sympathise with the Israeli victims, we all know that Israel could have captured these people they "targeted" but apparently the Israeli army has become Judge, jury and executioner. They have nothing on these people they kill, otherwise why not capture and try? Why? Because the Israeli has long ago forgotten about the rule of law and equal treatment.

The Palestinians are like a wounded animal; all they know is that they are fighting for their very existence.

[Joe the Revelator]

12. I would forget about the rule of law to..

if my neighbors kept sending psychopaths strapped with explosives into the pizza parlors and discotechs that my children frequent.

[Chicago Democrat]

18. Would you "forget the rule of law" when Al Qaeda

next bombs New York? Maybe we should comfiscate all Muslim lands and put all our Arabs in the crappiest section of the US just like Israel did to the Palestinians? Hey we could put them on the Indian reservations? Then when could have drones flying around and build a wall and shoot them whenever they demand anything back.

Im so happy that I live in a country where the rule of law is respected. Ooops forgot about Guantamino. Guess we're becoming more like Israel every day.

[Joe the Revelator]

20. Compareing Al Qaeda to Hamas is unfortunate...

and implying that we shouldn't dismantle Al Qaeda for what is,is also unfortunate.

[Chicago Democrat]

35. Your right, Hamas is a movement for national liberation!

They are more like the American Revolutionary Army and Arafat is like George Washington. Their "war" is to restore the Palestinian lands stolen by Israel.

Al Qaeda is different. I agree. They are more like a religion and the "war" against them is as much a war of ideas.

Still from the US/Israeli perspective I believe they should be fought the same. Basically through infiltration, intelligence and legitimate security we really, really need to catch the bombers/terrorists. Then we need to put them on trial.

Yassin should have been capture and put on trial. So should Osama. What is controversial about following tried and true methods of justice? Isn't 9/11 just a crime? Aren't suicide bombings crimes?

Doesn't anyone want to find out who did these things?

[Roaming]

120. Hamas is anti-Semitic and hateful--they are terrorists

They have happily declared holy war against Israel and the US because we support them. They kill innocent civilians and think nothing of it. I don't think you can realistically compare this to our revolutionary war.

[The Stranger]

131. Not to bother you with the facts, but the current Israeli government has

killed far more civilians than Hamas has. And the root of the problem is the occupation. Do you know about the occupation?

[Roaming]

132. What you call occupation, Israel calls its own country, which it has had

since 1948, given to it with the blessing of the United Nations. This is the core of the argument -- whether Israel has a right to exist, and we could spend hours debating this and not reach a resolution. I believe Israel has a right to exist.

[The Stranger]

143. Wrong.

Only a portion of the land was granted by the UN in 1948, subject to the British requirement that a majority be established there first. The other portion was granted to the Palestinians for their state in 1948. The Palestinians have a right to exist in their own state -- but their land has been occupied by Israel for decades.

You are wise not to want to debate this.

[Roaming]

164. Gee "thanks" for the judgment on my wisdom.

I will spend the rest of my life supporting Israel, its right to exist, and its right to even more of the land than what it has. The Palestinians have had many opportunities to have their own nation but have rejected that. Furthermore, their Arab brother nations have done nothing to absorb them and give them real homes.

Their only goal is to see Israel obliterated from the face of the map.

[thingfish]

173. I have to question your judgement.

And certainly your objectivity.

[Name removed]

176. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[thingfish]

190. Your avatar looks like it's giving the world the finger.

How symbolic.

[Chicago Democrat]

144. Arafat is just like Washington...Hammas are Palestinian "Sons of Liberty"

The Israelis are the religious fanatics! What country has a religious test before you can immigrate to it?!! What country discriminates based on religion more than any else? Israel thats who?!! Remember that Zionists believe God himself gave them the whole of Israel! That's sounds like a Holy War started by the Israelis!

Like the British, the Israelis colonized this land that belonged mostly to someone else. Then the Israeli's basically stole, bought and chased off the inhabitants of the land. (This happened less than 60 years ago) I personally know people who had their olive farm stolen by these Israeli "fighters", the Israeli Army is really exactly the same as Hamas and the PLO. Both kill citizens solely based on political beliefs. Every one in the land of Israel must choose between the Tories(Israel) or the Rebels (PLO). The Israelis are the one perpetuating this conflict by ignoring Palestinian legitimate grievances, like England ignored ours. Just like then King George (Bush) supports the anti-democratic side.

Arafat is loved just like Washington was. Just like Washington, Arafat is fighting an asymmetrical warfare against the better armed Israelis who are supplied across an ocean by a appointed King. Just like Washington he seems to loose the battles, but Arafat's really winning the war of world public opinion.

The Rebel Palestinians have allies throughout the Arab world based on ideology, just like France was our natural ally in the Revolutionary War. Just like in the Revolutionary War, foreign powers fight surrogate wars and supply either side.

Israel treats the Palestinians with the same contempt that a colonial power does. They will fail eventually, like every colonial power has. In two generations the Palestinians will overwhelm them with numbers and the US will force a settlement.That is unless they start a nuclear war before then, in that case I suggest we just give up on them.

[Zhade]

157. I have one problem with this analogy...

The targeting of innocent Israelis.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm sure you've noticed my other posts on this subject. I despise Ariel Sharon and the fascist Likud party.

However, innocent Israelis should not be targeted. The IDF, on the other hand, should be targeted if there is to be warfare.

The Israeli Occupation is illegal under international law (not that the Israeli government cares about such matters as law and justice). The Palestinians most assuredly have a right to fight the occupying IDF - under the same international law, they are entitled to defend against invaders such as the illegal settlers who come armed and ready to do battle.

Blowing up buses and disco halls are not acceptable acts of war, and are also not very effective. Such acts play into the hands of Sharon and enable him to ratchet up the police state that the Israeli people are beginning to realize exists around them.

Attacking only legitimate targets - the innocent-targeting IDF - would win the Palestinian people more deserved sympathy than attacking innocent Israelis.

I would prefer that both sides agree to a just peace, but I don't see that happening as long as a small extremist segment of Israelis believe a book written thousands of years ago gives them the right to steal others' land. (And before I get called anti-Semitic, please note that I said A SMALL EXTREMIST SEGMENT, not all Jews worldwide.)

[Chicago Democrat]

169. Recall Tories were Tar and Feathered, Killed and Robbed

by US "Patriots". Many ran away to Canada, which almost was the US too. War was slightly more civilized then but not by much. People died in the Revolutionary War. Probably not as many "innocents" died in the Revolution for sure.

[Zhade]

181. I know. Still, better to stick to non-innocents in a war.

NT!

[Ruby Romaine]

108. Huh? In some ways, Israel is more democratic than the US.

"Im so happy that I live in a country where the rule of law is respected."

If you want to compare rights in Israel vs. U.S...

1-Sharon was voted in, didn't steal the election like Bush did.
2-Representation is proportional which is why communists have seats in the Knesset, unlike our winner take all system in the U.S.
3-Everyone serves in the military in Israel so you don't have chickenhawks giving the orders.
4-Gay and Lesbians have more rights than in the US, including a new ruling on tax benefits.

[Chicago Democrat]

145. Israeli "Law" only protects Israelis!!

But you ignor the fact that as an occupying power Israel has an obligation under the Geneva Convention to provide the "rule of law" in the territories! Which they don't. Case in point: Targeted Assasinations!

Israeli democracy is a crime as long as Israel violates basic international law. Israel is the real outlaw state, reviled around the world because of their state-sponsored terrorism.

[Zhade]

159. Israel has a two-tiered system of laws.

One tier for Israelis, another lower tier for Palestinians.

By definition, this makes Israel a fascist state.

Both the Israelis and the Palestinians deserve a better Israeli government than the one they have.

[still_one]

13. It is not quite as simple as you say.

Hamas has been calling for the destruction of Israel, and would not accept any of the peace treaties.

What I do agree with you on though, is that when bush became president he did not take over the peace negotiations that Clinton left him. BUSH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS CRAP THAT HAS BEEN GOING DOWN HILL BY DOING NOTHING!

We must get a new leader to encourage peace and a fair negotiation

[Chicago Democrat]

17. Yes it is.

Nothing justifies Israeli targeted killing.

Nothing.

Nothing

Prove Hamas' crimes if they did so many. I think the perpetrators mostly are dead. Catch the bomb makers and put them on trial. What a joke Israel justice has become. The country that kidnapped Eichmann and put him on trial.

Israeli Justice is non existant.

[still_one]

23. You are wrong

You have not lost any children in a club or cafe based on orders from Ahmed Yassin.

This is a war from the Israeli perspectives. There have been hundreds of Israelis killed by this so-called spiritual leader. bin Laden is also called a spritual leader, and let me tell you, if we could have a targeted killing of him we should!

Ahmed Yassin was directly responsible for ordering attacks in Israeli cafes and clubs.

For the last three years, Ahmed Yassin, has rejected any peace negotiations, and called for the destruction of Israel.

The blind Sheik from New Jersey who conspired in the first world trade center was not innocent just because he had a handicap. He conspired to kill thousands of people.

[Chicago Democrat]

29. Prove it! Woops he's dead so you can't

How convenient!

Im sure your fairy tale is something Sharon tells Bush before he goes to bed to make him feel better.

I like the good ol day's where murders were caught put on trial and THEN punished. Its a silly little thing called CIVILIZATION.

[Joe the Revelator]

37. "Its a silly little thing called CIVILIZATION"

Something that the members of hamas and the PLO and yes even your post-hummos buddy Yassin didn't seem to care about at all.

[Chicago Democrat]

48. Killing without trial is wrong and violates the rules of war.

And the Geneva Convention.
First of all Yassin is not my "Buddy". He was killed by Israel without a shred of evidence, a trial or anything close to "due process".

Since 9/11 and Bush giving Sharon the green light for Sharon to KILL all members of Hamas, PLO and anyone who expresses support for them (foreign activists) (Maybe Massad will come after me next.)These are all lawfully subject to immediate targeted execution!

How many swimming pools of Hamas blood will satisfy Sharon, the Israeli Army and their fanatical supporters?? Just where is this all supposed to lead?

[Joe the Revelator]

51. Where is it suppose to lead?

To a Israel where families and civilians and go out of their houses with out fear of getting blown up by a Muslim fanatic strapped with a bomb. That should be pretty apparent.

[Chicago Democrat]

54. Death on both sides forever? Is that where?

Like two misbehaiving chidren, the US should occupy both these stupid peoples and actually accomplish something. The US could actually solve something but only with about 100,000 troops. We should be there and not in Iraq.

It will happen eventually or these two foolish peoples will start the apocalypse.

[still_one]

60. We should not be in Iraq

or Israel. We would only be targets, and bush has definitely made things worse.

The only thing we can hope for is that we have a strong leader who can negotiate a fair peace for both sides

[Chicago Democrat]

77. You know that's not going to happen!

You know this! Not with tit for tat bombings and killings! Both sides will just be more radicalized. A strong leader? What does that mean?

Strong Leaders

Gandhi
Martin Luther King
Jesus
Moses


Violent Leaders

Sharon
Bush
Blair

Still one, I am so depressed, I am crying now. There's nothing anyone can do. The USA will never elect someone who stands up to Israel. I can only hope that the arabs don't get a Nuke, cause then its all over. Its so sad. I feel so helpless.

[Spentastic]

93. Moses

Commanded the levites to slaughter loads (3000) of people and murdered an Egyptian. He's not a paragon of virtue.

[DoNotRefill]

87. thanks, but no thanks.

We've stuck our privates in one meatgrinder too many already.

[ze_dscherman]

125. No need for troops

The U.S. could just stop open (foreign aid, military aid, "loans") and covert (very favourable deals) sponsorship to the Likud government. So they may engage in other solutions than building walls, targeted killings and taking another peoples land.

To me it looks like Sharon is just trying to create facts as long as there's a government that is strongly influenced by his AEI allies.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html

[DoNotRefill]

86. Ummm....

Let's say they captured him and put him on trial. What result?

Most likely, terrorist attacks and kidnappings to win his freedom, with many more deaths resulting.

Better the Israelis kill him than 12 year olds throwing rocks at his urging.

This person wasn't some ancillary figure. He was the LEADER of a group which has killed thousands of Israeli civilians. When did THEIR trial happen?

If you send people with bombs strapped to their chests to blow up civilians, you need to expect retaliation. He called the tune, and now has paid the piper. He got what he deserved.

[Chicago Democrat]

89. The man was in a wheel chair and had two guards.

Israel knew exactly where he was. Thet could have -easily- captured him. This is the head Cleric of the Palestinians. Why doesn't he deserve a trial. Why doesn't Osama deserve a trial for that matter. I would like to hear from both of them.You are essentially saying a trial would cause "more deaths" so that is now a reason for this extra-judicial killing by a supposed democracy. This concept disturbs me.

[keithyboy]

121. Missiles to get a man in a wheel chair? this is true terrorism.

If any country but Israel had done this, we would be sending troops right now.

[DoNotRefill]

141. Osama may get a trial....

but trials are usually reserved for people who surrender or are captured. I don't see Osama surrendering or being taken alive. Osama's no Saddam.

If Yassin had turned himself in to the Israelis, and they had summarily executed him while he was in custody, THAT would have been criminal. He didn't, and they didn't.

I'd remind you that Yassin had been in Israeli custody previously. His release was arranged in exchange for captured Israelis. If he had been captured, what would have prevented Hamas from taking hostages to secure his release again?

[Romulus Quirinus]

116. If Israel hated the Palestinians as much as the Palestinians hate Israel

there wouldn't be any Palestinians. ;(

[Chicago Democrat]

179. That may happen at this rate...

When the PLO buys that nuke from the Ukraine.

[mp40]

174. No evidence?

He did not deserve a trial- He is, pardon me, was an admitted terrorist. He deserves what he got. Period. When the terrorist renounce violence and accept a two state system then maybe a hard Peace can be achieved

[Chicago Democrat]

180. Unrealistic and a recipe for further bloodshed.

Must I repeat basic recent history?

Arafat and the PLO used to be like Hammas and Islamic Jihad, but they renounced violence and are attempting to start a fragile Palestinian government that is based mainly around Arafat whom the Palestinians love like our George Washington. Maybe they might be a democracy someday but the fact is they love Arafat for a million reasons, mostly because he has survived.

Yassim was not directly involved in any terrorist attacks or plans, if he was why hasn't Israel put him on trial? Why? Because Yassim has done nothing except talk. So Israel kills for beliefs and speech. My God what have they done?

[The Stranger]

109. Civilization? Try Occupation. That is where it all begins.

Go spend some time in the refugee camps before coming back here to post.

[still_one]

40. This is no fairy tale

Sharon is not my hero, and Israel did not get permission from Bush to do this. Ahmed Yassin has recorded enough speeches and insitements that are already on the record

[Chicago Democrat]

52. Since when is speeches avocating national liberation a

reason for a targeted killing. Why if they knew exactly where this supposed criminal is could they have not captured him and put him of trial? Why? Because they have no proof and they have long ago abandoned justice.

Its bullshit. Its murder. Cold blooded murder.

[Joe the Revelator]

53. I really hope that you're this self-righteous

"Its bullshit. Its murder. Cold blooded murder"

when hamas brainwashes Palestinian children to blow themselves up in order to kill Israeli kids.

[Chicago Democrat]

55. Im talking about Israeli actions.

Dont put words in my mouth, Mr Onesidedview.

[Joe the Revelator]

62. Can you not see your own hypocrisy? nt

[Chicago Democrat]

79. My view is even handed; I know its foreign to most Americans.

who have been spoon fed the Pro-Israel line for so long; they don't even know what even-handed is when they see it.

[Muddleoftheroad]

104. You can't be even-handed with terrorists and that is your mistake

There is no equivalency.

[The Stranger]

110. Assassination is Terrorism.

[Chicago Democrat]

146. Assassination is Terrorism! Israel- a Rogue State.

Israel - a rogue state that ignores basic human rights. Israel a state that shoots missiles at handicap clerics and children.

Israel - Our best ally in the Middle East.

Israel - makes me sick

[Muddleoftheroad]

191. It wasn't assassination

It was a military operation to get rid of a deadly enemy. And I don't give a fuck if he was disabled or not, it didn't stop him from murdering countless women and kids.

Hamas is the ultimate rogue.

[leftynyc]

140. Do you actually know anything about Yassin?

You might want to do a bit of investigating before you defend that murderous piece of filth.

[GabysPoppy]

149. It wouldn't matter to this individual

Comparing this piece of shit to Washington - next we will have Arafat and Ghandi as blood brothers. That's coming in the sequel, stay tuned.


:shrug:

[Zhade]

90. And thousands of Palestinians have died. What's your point?

Neither side can lay a claim to exclusive grief. BOTH sides have lost many, more on the Palestinian side.

By the way, even if the rate of suicide bomber to innocent Israeli killed and wounded were 1:1, that would mean that 19,300 MORE Palestinians who did not die in a suicide bombing would have been killed.

Kind of lends credence to the documented observation that the IDF targets innocents for collective punishment.

[bluestateguy]

14. This is what I have been talking about

In a thread that was deleted. Half-hearted condemnations of suicide bombings, excuses for the terrorists while the bulk of the blame is directed toward Israel. It's the equivalent of blaming a scantily clad female for being raped because she was being "provocative" when "boys will be boys".

[mobuto]

21. And I'd blame Sheik Yassin

Live by the sword, and what was that?

[thebigidea]

43. ...die by the attack that didn't kill a few toddlers for a change

[SKKY]

195. On Bush's hands???

I don't like the guy any more than anyone else, but it seems to me that if Arafat had accepted Ehud Barak's more than generous compromise back in 2000, we wouldn't be where we are now.

[smallprint]

15. Updates from Haaretz Flash News:

07:46
Palestinians declare general strike in the West Bank after IDF assassination of Hamas leader Yassin
07:47
IDF divides West Bank into three parts in wake of assassination of Yassin

07:53
Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades says revenge for Yassin assassination `will come within hours, God willing`

07:54
Hospital sources in Gaza: Eight killed in IAF airstrike Monday morning

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/

[madrchsod]

19. interesting

sharon just had a meeting with the rightwing thugs and they wanted bush`s blessing- a few hours later they kill a guy in a wheel chair that they installed to counter arafat. i suppose many here will have nothing but praise for the killing. i guess that is what they wanted now the people of israel and palistine will pay the price. and who`s happy now? got to be those fundies waiting for the rapture and the white power/nazi`s hoping that the jews all die. only god knows why sharon order the murder and only god will judge him

[still_one]

28. You are distorting the facts

Hundreds of Israellis have been killed in cafes and clubs, based on Ahmed Yassin orders. He NEVER accepted any of the peace agreements or negotiations provided in the last 5 years. He wanted only one thing, and that was for Israel to be destroyed.

[Sandpiper]

47. Three Times as many Palestinians

Have been killed by the IDF than Israelis by Palestinian suicide bombers. Where's your outrage over that?

Or does Israel get a pass for being "God's chosen people."

[Zhade]

92. I think the silence is all the answer you need - or will get.

Both the suicide bombers and the IDF target innocents.

Both are wrong to do so.

One group gets rightful condemnation. The other group gets ignored.

Welcome to the land of the double-standard. Happens all the time in the I/P forum. Hell, you can even post stories from the Jerusalem Post over there - and Richard Perle is (or was) on the board of directors of the JP!

[Undemcided]

165. Do you have a link for your claim?

n/t

[Sandpiper]

166. The best database

For casualties on both sides is www.btselem.org

But their website seems to be down.

[aprilgirl]

184. And the Israelis want.....?

Add up the numbers killed. Look at the weapontry that Israel has. Palestinains killed outnumber Israelis killed by almost 4:1. Look at the territories where the Palestinains live...ravaged by Israeli missiles and bulldozers. If this were another country performing such acts we would be at war right now...ally or not. Remember, Iraq was a former ally and Saddam did nothing in Kuwait comparable to what Sharon has done and continues to do in the Palestinian territories.

[Algorem]

24. They don't even give a Richter scale # on their "like an earthquake"

threat?That's incompetent terrorisming.

[mobuto]

27. Hamas will need to make good on its threats

If the terrorists fail to kill a great many innocent Israelis, they'll begin to look like the paper tiger they are.

[still_one]

30. It is about time the Palestians start to do what is right

Their leaders have used them. They could have had a state in 1948, 1967, 1971, etc., etc., etc.

Instead they called for the destruction of Israel, and each time lost because of their consumption of hate

[mobuto]

31. Its not a winning formula

They need to find a new approach. Maybe this killing will be the prelude to a tactical reappraisal, but the realist in me says probably not.

[still_one]

44. You are correct

Clinton was trying to negotiate peace, which the chimp did not follow through on. Unfortunately, I think it will take time for this situation to calm down before the parties can get back to the peace table.

A change of administration here would be a welcome sign, which may open new doors

[DemBones DemBones]

26. Another article linked at the Telegraph

http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story.jsp?sectionid=1274&storyid=1078297

says Hamas 'to kill hundreds,' and they're not just after Israel.

'The Zionists would not have perpetrated such an act without obtaining the green light from the terrorist American administration and it must assume responsibility for this crime," it added. '


Maybe Bush* really is the AntiChrist. He certainly seems to be trying to bring about the end of the world. :scared:

[still_one]

33. bush is a terrible leader

Israel did not need permission from him to kill Ahmed Yassin. They had tried it previously, and were not successful. It was only when Hamas started terrorist attacks out of Gaza last week, that was the straw that broke the camels back.

Incidently, these were the same people dancing in the streets after 9/11, led by this wonderful spiritual leader!

[Zhade]

94. You do realize that was stock footage - NOT a live feed - right?

Total media manipulation.

[ZR2]

119. link please

to this "stock footage"

[Zhade]

151. I misspoke. Should have said "file", not "stock".

At any rate, it appears Snopes.com has "debunked" this claim. (I qualify that term, because I have found Snopes to be less than reliable before.)

The only ones who really talked about the footage were the ones who denied it was used - CNN and Fox News. So I guess we're sort of at an impasse, and I will concede it is an open issue if file footage was or was not used.

Maybe someone else out there knows something I don't?

[DemBones DemBones]

103. A dancing quadriplegic???

That's a new one. :tinfoilhat:

[AntiCoup2K4]

136. Nobody was "dancing in the streets" after 9/11

The Bush blowing mediawhores ran some file footage and made up that story.

[Disturbed]

32. Terror on both sides

"bin Laden is also called a spritual leader, and let me tell you, if we could have a targeted killing of him we should!"

btw "bin Laden" is a last name. There are thousands of people named bin Laden who are not even realted to Osama bin Laden's family. Pres. Clinton did try to assasinate Osama with a missle strike but Osama had left the area sometime before the strike.

Israeli Govt. doesn't seem to be trying to establish peace with continuous assasinations. This one will reap a lot of reprisals.

[still_one]

36. I think everyone knows that when bin Laden is referred to

we mean Osama...

[AntiCoup2K4]

34. Whatever this Yassin guy did or did not do in the past

(and admittedly I don't know much about him)... how this is going to play out is that a quadraplegic in a wheelchair got blown up as he was leaving a place of worship.

You think that might piss off a few Muslims?

Another brilliant move from Sharon the butcher :eyes:

[still_one]

38. Ahmed Yassin was butcher

responsible for killing hundreds!

As far as a few Muslims being pissed off, they already are pissed off. When bush took office, instead of taking over where Clinton left off, he put his head in the sand, and here we are today!

[Malikshah]

114. And Sharon is...?

Just wondering--if you're going to start counting bodies comparatively...then Sharon wins big. He is directly and indirectly responsible for the death of thousands of Palestinians since 1953...

In other words---look at the big picture.

When you start comparing body counts of civilians all you end up with is more bodies.

[Joe the Revelator]

39. and Osama Bin Ladin has a bum kidney..

either way these people are murderous and elusive and should be taken out by the countries they effect, if said country is given an opportunity

[still_one]

41. If any major Democrat expresses

sympathy for Ahmed Yassin, the Democrats can kiss this election goodbye, and that would be a terrible thing if bush is re-elected for a second term

[Chicago Democrat]

183. You are right, I'm amazed.... I think its bait by the Republicans who

know that 1%to 2% of Democrats will vote for Bush based on this issue. I forgive Kerry for this. I hope he stabs the Zionists in the back on January 21. My advise to Kerry regarding the Israelie issue: be vague, pretend you are a Zionist, but advocate a Palestinian state. Associate yourself with CLinton on this issue.

Then totally screw Sharon over and support Labor and get Labor elected. Then negotiate a real settlement. IF Sharon wins, cut him off with money, then arms. Investigate Jewish charities that "support" State Sponsored Terrorism. Hurrah for Kerry. Screw Liebermann. Both he and the Republicans has simply supported the Likud and they are traitors to the USA and to democracy in Israel.

[civil_liberties_dem]

50. Yep look at the people we pick fights with.

Serbia a tiny impovershed nation that had fought five years of brutal civil war. 10 million people in 1999, 2 million of which were fighting a civil war against the government.

Then Iraq a nation that had fought 8 long years of war in Iran, and two civil wars. Also one of the tiniest nations in the world, 14 million in 1991.

Then look pakistan is selling nuclear weapons all around the world, what does brave america do? It promises for them to be a major non nato ALLY.

These people are nothing but schoolyard bullies, who single out the smallest and weakest to pick on. Then tell their people how amazingly strong they are, when they control a tiny fraction of the worlds people.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Joe the Revelator]

46. Wow

First of all, tin foil hat much? You sound like a German in the 40's with all this " Washington is controlled by Jews, run for the hills" nonsense.

Secondly, their have been MANY MANY times that hamas and the PLO have attacked Israeli civilians and America has asked for restraint.

[civil_liberties_dem]

84. I should have phrased it better.

I would say the israeli lobby controls outright some aspects of america's foreign policy. And jews generaly speaking consider themselves connected to that lobby and support it.

And lets face it muslims lobby and support candidates that are viewed to be pro muslim, but they don't have the type of resources to affect much, or the population inside america to sway elections.

The problem is that any group can hijack america's foreign policy in favour of another nation. That is treason plain and simple.

I seem to remember now once america did urge israeli restraint. I do think they are much louder at calling for the palestinians to have restraint though. Can you imagine if a bunch of 'terrorists' were destroying israeli government compounds including the prime minister's offices?

Do you honestly think america would be telling the Israelis to show restraint? The politicians would lose their job if they said that. And they know it.

And one last point, I do get tired of hearing how opressed jews are and how we must constantly feel sorry for them. The way I see it they are living pretty damn well on average and we are saving their asses over in the middle east. Israel would rapidly be pushed into the sea without american support at this point in history. At minimum they would be forced to the negotiating table and have to give up a hell of a lot.

Instead of going on and on about how opressed they were, and how people are bigots for not supporting Israel enough, I want to start hearing how thankful they are to us for saving israel. Because with a growing war against islamic forces it sure as hell isn't in our interest to help them.

The best move for america at this point would be to ditch israel and help get rid of them as a symbol of how pro-muslim they were. Instead we are taking massive heat for protecting them. That deserves at minimum constant thank yous, and talk of how lucky the jewish people are to have a protector.

[Sugarbleus]

102. Ditto that CG, 'controlled by Jews'???????

That is a very ignorant thing to say...unless one is anti semetic

Jew,Jewish=religion
Israel,Israeli=a nation

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mokito]

74. This is, however, a valid question...

would they advise calm if Sharon was assassinated? (or any other high-ranking Israeli figure for that matter.)

IMHO, such an event would be grabbed at as the ultimate opportunity for a total crackdown on the Palestian people.

[civil_liberties_dem]

80. It just seems we are no matter what , on Israel's side.

Its one tiny country, not even in a strategic place at the moment.

Doing one hundred times the violence that serbia was. Look how we went after serbia. And that was to help some muslims who were using terrorist tactics too.

And serbia was a christian nation. There is even UN resolutions that demand Israel withdraw from areas they control. And not only do we do nothing we give israel 5 billion a year in military aid, and back it internationally.

This to me implies there is more going on.

[PaDUer]

168. Why all the deleted messages? n/t

[thingfish]

171. I'll give you three guesses.

See? You didn't even need one!

[Chicago Democrat]

57. Israeli Lobby, not jews

Its not the same thing. Other than that I totally agree.

[still_one]

63. Lobbies in general control washington

not just the Israelli lobby, but the Arab lobby, the pharmecutical lobby. Look at the privledges that Saudi Arabia has gotten, including allowing the bin Laden family to be the only flight to leave the U.S. after 9/11

[Chicago Democrat]

67. Damn right. Its terrible.

There are like hardly -any- contested seats in our House of "Representatives" more like House of Well Connected/Appointed Machine Politicians Paid in Advance.

[civil_liberties_dem]

82. Israeli lobby would be a better term.

Jews around the world tend to often equate judaism and israel though.

I have made comments against Israel in the past, and been called an anti-semite by jews.

Then when I linke jews to israel they call me bigoted that way too.

[Rationality]

186. The two are not the same at all

I understand you won't be able to respond, being tombstoned and all, but you bring up a misconception that I feel should be answered.

First and formost, Judism is a religion, wheras Israel is a nation that claims to have a Jewish system of government. You may get a few who will equate the two - just like you'll get a few Falwellian Christians saying an attack on America is an attack on Christianity, or vice versa - but those few are simply wrong. Also, I know a few Jewish people personally who would wish Israel handled this conflict in a more even-handed manner.

As for you claiming to make statements against Israel, while I would agree that they are not doing the right thing building walls and refusing to offer the Palestinians a contiegous (spelling?) state of their own, those committing suicide attacks are going well beyond delivering the wrong message.

[AntiCoup2K4]

78. While it's certainly true that Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith, etc are treasonous

...employees of Likud who have absolutely no business being in the US government, that shouldn't be represented as "the Jews control Washington". Fascists control Washington. The ones previously mentioned happen to be Jewish, but they don't speak for all Jews just as Junior doesn't speak for all Methodists, Jerry Falwell doesn't speak for all Baptists and William "the Gambler" Bennett doesn't speak for all Catholics. Or for that matter, Rummy doesn't speak for all satanists who bathe in the blood of goats.

[civil_liberties_dem]

83. True enough we need to publicly seperate judaism and israel.

So often I have argued against some israeli tactics. And I get called an anti-semite bigot by jews.

And there is no doubt the israeli lobbies hold incredible sway in washington. Bordering on control in some aspects of the government.

Like going after secular syria makes absolutely no sense for america. But it is logical for Israel. And you are right it is treason when people use the government of america to actualy hurt america knowingly.

I do think many jews support israel to be 'patriotic' to their religion though. They see it as the last refuge against oppression that must always be protected. Certainly not every jew supports the decisions, but most do push for a certain policy towards the middle east.

And have you ever heard a senator or congressman criticize israel. They go to ridiculus extremes saying how much they would do to prostrate themselves to the state of israel if you keep them in power.

[messiah]

45. Killing good peace bad!

barbarians in both parties not much of a difference to me!.

[smallprint]

56. UPDATE: Hamas accuses US of approving assassination

08:47
Hamas says U.S. approved Yassin assassination, calls for retaliation against `terrorist American Administration`

Haaretz Flash News
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/

[Chicago Democrat]

58. Of course this is true, Bush has done nothing about it in the past.

Bush continues to fund the fascist, racist Sharon regime. Bush knows a fellow fascist when he sees one.

[still_one]

68. You know

I have been a Democrat all my life, but now I am considering not voting in this election, based on what seems like anti-Jewish seniments from many in this group

[Chicago Democrat]

72. What has your being Jewish, have to do with Israel?

Are you an American?

Im German and Luxembourger but I don't follow their politics or force my polical party to give them money or support them when they violate human rights. (which they havent since 1945)

Please give your personal fortune to Israel, support it, help it all you can, but keep Israeli politics out of the USA. And don't threaten me with your vote. Do what you please.

[still_one]

73. nothing

I just do not like broad paint brushes being applied to a group of people.

Something bothers me about what is happening right now though, I wonder why this particular assination happened right on the evening when the Clark bombshell was released on 60 mintues!

[wabeewoman]

138. Yikes!

That is a very good question. Seems something always happens when there is BIG news against bush to push it out of the headlines. I wouldn't put it past them. They have no doubt had Yassin under surveillance and could have killed him at any time. Why now??

[still_one]

65. This is a lie from Hamas

but if they push it enough, and incit enough people to attack Americans, then unfortunately bush will win another term

[civil_liberties_dem]

85. This is why we need to ditch israel today.

Whether its fair or not we are now fighting what is a spreading world war. Its going to be a long and very very difficult war given the best case scenarios.

Helping fan the flames of hatred in the muslim world against us is idiotic.

And maybe the israelis are 'right' but ultimately it doesn't matter, what matters is there is a 1.2 billion muslims and they view them as 'wrong'.

If we were infinetely strong we could pick and choose who was morally right or wrong. And in honesty if we find serbia 'wrong', we must find israel 'wrong'.

But we aren't infinetely powerful anyway so we have to ultimately do what we can, where we can.

[hexola]

61. Blind, Quadrapalegic...?

Where did all the power come from?

[Chicago Democrat]

64. He was killed for "speeches" and speaking

He advocated things like Israeli withdrawal to the 1967 border and a restoring of stolen Palestinian land. For that Israel killed him with giant missiles. Sick and sad and so obviously wrong.

[still_one]

66. The land was not stolen

They tried to drive Israel into the sea, in 1967 and 1973.

[Chicago Democrat]

69. I have friends whose land was "stolen"

in the period 1948 to 1967. Basically chased off their land and it was stolen by Israelis. Now they can't go back. What's fair or right about that. There are hundreds of thousands of similar family stories.

The entire occupation violates the Geneva Convention and regarding the occupied territories they are in the same classification as our Iraqi occupied territories. The occcupying power has the obligation of law and order and a system of justice. An obligation that Israel routinely violates.

Israel a violent country supplied with arms and money by your tax dollars.

[still_one]

70. Let me ask you one question

Do you think Israel has the right to exist as an independent state along side an indedpendent Palestian state?

[Chicago Democrat]

75. Of Course! Israel could be a great country.

There are many open issues regarding individual claims in Israel proper, but I totally think that Israel has a right to exist.

It just needs to play by the rules of international law. The US needs to be even handed. The Palestinians have legitimate grievances that are being ignored.

[still_one]

76. I agree on both issues

I really hope this event doesn't divert attention away from what Clark said on 60 minutes

[leftynyc]

148. If you think he was killed for merely giving speeches

you really have no idea what's going on. The man was a murderous slug who got what was coming to him. The only thing I regret is the escalation of violence this is going to cause. I shed no tears for Yassin. That son of a bitch is buring for sure.

[still_one]

71. Something bothers me right now

Ahmed Yassin was a bastard, but why was this done on the night of the Clark interview on 60 minutes? Is it a coincidence?

[AntiCoup2K4]

81. Haven't you been following Bush press coverage the last three years?

It never fails... anytime the Bush Criminal Empire gets bad press, they find a way to bury it with some distraction. Wolfoshithead probably made a phone call to Sharon the butcher and it was a done deal :grr:

[tkmorris]

91. Let me ask you a question

If, as you seem, you are willing to entertain the idea that perhaps it isn't a coincidence doesn't it trouble you that a man was murdered merely to provide a distraction for the Bushites?

[Zhade]

88. Oh, WOW. This is not going to be good for either side.

I just heard this news. Wow. I am not looking forward to the dead innocents on both sides that's probably going to occur.

What a fucking mess.

[Chicago Democrat]

95. It has affected me deeply, I pray for the innocents.

who will die in the name of pride and stupidity.

[FuseONE]

96. If anyone cares....

Reportedly, 9 people died altogether.

[theHandpuppet]

98. Despair...

And so it goes, on and on and on.... the hatred, the violence, the bloodshed, the blaming, the cries for vengence that drown out every speck of compassion, mercy, forgiveness and humanity.

Anyone here who believes in a higher power(s), start praying for the innocents on both sides who are sure to die. :(

[laruemtt]

97. retaliation against israel

AND the u.s. will not be pretty. this will be a bad week all around, i'm afraid. this feeling of foreboding i've had for the last couple of weeks is just getting worse....

[theHandpuppet]

99. You, too?

I told my partner just a few days ago that I had experienced a sudden and terrible sense of foreboding.... as if an imminent and terrible tragedy was about to unfold, and you know there is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent it from happening.

[Roon]

107. I feel it too eom

[jmcgowanjm]

124. My condolences to the people in the ME who will die as a result

Sharon surely understands the story of the nine-headed Hydra, which
grew two heads to replace each that was cut off. We have to
assume Sharon knows he has triggered a holy war, and assume
when he says, "They are going to get World War Three whether
they like it or not," he really means it, and when he says "they" he
means us.

It is apparent therefore that the Hell on Earth we see emerging daily
around us was not yet hot enough for Sharon's blood.

[Just Me]

170. A "final conflict" has been my sense of the motivations,...

,...behind both sharon/likudes and the bush/neocons. It has always been my sense of those particular leaderships. They seem determined to make some kind of an apocalypse a reality. The wacko psychos.

[Disturbed]

100. Israel

"The entire occupation violates the Geneva Convention and regarding the occupied territories they are in the same classification as our Iraqi occupied territories. The occcupying power has the obligation of law and order and a system of justice. An obligation that Israel routinely violates."

Israel has ignored at least 12 UN rulings. The USA always votes against the UN rulings. No Pres. or Congress person will say anything negative about the Israeli Govt. It would be career suicide. I am not saying that the US should side with Palestine but to persitently side with Israel is not conducive to any sort of peace process.

[The Stranger]

111. Intended to defeat peace.

This attack was designed to prevent any peace overtures from gaining momentum. It was designed to undermine peace and keep Sharon in power for the foreseeable future.

[Junkdrawer]

105. Hours after Richard Clarke blasted Bush on 60 Minutes...

What a coincidence! Oh well, I guess the media now has bigger things to report than Clarke.

[sendero]

106. What cracks me up....

... is that some of you seem to think that one side or the other in the middle east conflict is the "good guy".

There is no good guy in the middle east. Both Israel and the Palestinians have behaved abhorrently, a pox on both their houses.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

113. Hamas says it also holds the US responsible and will attack US

thanks bush* for your ignoring this I/P issue ...you are a criminal!!!!!! and responsible for all the deaths since your selection!....may you rot in hell!!!

[Muddleoftheroad]

118. They have killed Americans before

This is nothing new. Terrorists are enemies of the whole civilized world.

[lebkuchen]

115. I doubt Israel made this decision on its own...

...assasinating a beloved aged quadriplegic coming from prayer? Now THAT's a radical idea, and of course, the US would have known about it ahead of time, and likely gave its blessing.

Don't I feel safe...

PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
This information is current as of today, Mon Mar 22 13:05:33 2004.
WORLDWIDE CAUTION
March 19, 2004
This supersedes the Worldwide Caution dated January 9, 2004 . It is being issued to remind U.S. citizens of the continuing threat of terrorist attacks. This Worldwide Caution expires on September 19, 2004 .
The U.S. Government remains deeply concerned about the security of U.S. citizens overseas. U.S. citizens are cautioned to maintain a high level of vigilance, to remain alert and to take appropriate steps to increase their security awareness. We are seeing indications that Al-Qaida continues to prepare to strike U.S. interests abroad.
Al-Qaida and its associated organizations have most recently struck in the Middle East and in Europe but other geographic locations could also be venues for attacks. Future Al-Qaida attacks could possibly involve non-conventional weapons such as chemical or biological agents as well as conventional weapons of terror. We also cannot rule out that Al-Qaida will attempt a catastrophic attack within the U.S.
Terrorist actions may include, but are not limited to, suicide operations, hijackings, bombings or kidnappings. These may involve aviation and other transportation and maritime interests, and may also include conventional weapons, such as explosive devices. Terrorists do not distinguish between official and civilian targets. These may include facilities where U.S. citizens and other foreigners congregate or visit, including residential areas, clubs, restaurants, places of worship, schools, hotels and public areas. U.S. citizens are encouraged to maintain a high level of vigilance and to take appropriate steps to increase their security awareness.
U.S. Government facilities worldwide remain at a heightened state of alert. These facilities may temporarily close or suspend public services from time to time to assess their security posture. In those instances, U.S. embassies and consulates will make every effort to provide emergency services to U.S. citizens. Americans abroad are urged to monitor the local news and maintain contact with the nearest U.S. embassy or consulate .
As the Department continues to develop information on any potential security threats to U.S. citizens overseas, it shares credible threat information through its consular information program documents <http://travel.state.gov>, available on the Internet at http://travel.state.gov. In addition to information on the Internet, travelers may obtain up-to-date information on security conditions by calling 1-888-407-4747 toll-free in the U.S. or outside the U.S. and Canada on a regular toll line at 1-317-472-2 328.

[yardwork]

122. Oh. NOW we're calling for "calm and restraint."

What utter hypocrisy and gall on the part of the Bush administration. Not that I would expect any different.

[The Blue Knight]

127. I say good for Israel. This guy was a total asshole.

This guy pushed, pushed, and pushed. He finally got his shit canned. He may be crippled, and legally blind...but he was still a terrorist.

I mean, if Bush was crippled and legally blind..90% of you guys wouldn't lose sleep if he was killed in a missile strike either.

[aprilgirl]

185. I think Sharon is a total a--hole. But I don't think he should be sturck

by missiles from a helicopter. If being an ass-hole means you deserve death, the world would have few people and the US would have no government.

[Muddleoftheroad]

123. Who cares about the damn wheelchair

He's been paralyzed since he was 17 and it never stopped him from killing others before.

[Barkley]

126. We didn't "exercise restraint" in Afghanistan or Iraq after 9-11

In fact, people that called for restraint were considered to be standing with the terrorist rather than with the Bush Administration and the rest of America

If such an assassination occurred in the U.S., we would be seeking prompt and immediate revenge.

'assassination' ...Oh, I better "watch what I say..."


"God Bless America ... and no place else."

-Chris Rock's Movie:
"Head of State"

[The Blue Knight]

128. Exactly.

Imagine what would've happened if we would've advocated that the US exercise "restraint" when OBL was in Tora Bora?

[AntiCoup2K4]

137. Restraint WAS used in Tora Bora!

They airlifted the son of a bitch out in a helicopter so they could continue this fucking pathetic joke of a "war" on (arranged) terrorism.

[NickB79]

129. More suicide bombings

"If such an assassination occurred in the U.S., we would be seeking prompt and immediate revenge."

Which is why it should be no surprise when many, many innocent Israelis are killed in the coming weeks in revenge for this assassination.

[Barkley]

134. I wonder if Israeli citizens feel safer now?

[Lexingtonian]

130. very stupid move by Sharon

This was just way too crudely done, for one thing. Killing six additional people which could have been perfectly avoidable is Russian levels of crudeness and barbarity, especially to take out an aged guy in a wheelchair. What ever happened to that oldest Middle Eastern tradition, the Stranger Who Steps Out Of The Crowd and puts a bullet or dagger in the Prominent Figure? This is more like Basaev, taken out by a Hind gunship on a Chechen field.

Maybe killing Yassin has some kind of morality to it (isn't Sharon responsible for de facto ordering even more deaths?), and maybe it even serves some kind of political purpose. It does reflect that Sharon seems to think the Palestinians too weak and afraid to fight back in a sufficiently large way that hits him personally. I think he has vastly underestimated the personal consequences.

Now, I have long jokingly advocated as Recipe for Peace that all the violence-advocating political leaders in I/P over age sixty be locked in a warehouse with a large stack of small arms, and the one(s) who stagger out after the shooting stops be summarily executed too. But this murder seems to guarantee that suicide bombers and snipers and helicopter pilots will be doing the job- and taking out piles of civilians along the way.

[Barkley]

135. Hey Sharon: Goliath Lost!

I heard on KPFP/ Democracy Now this morning a professor in Israel named Gordon say that Sharon not only ordered the assassination but helped direct it.

He said there was also an attack on peaceful demonstration in the occupied territories this weekend that killed some 30 people.

He contends that these policies are aimed at preventing a political or diplomatic resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

[Malva Zebrina]

133. there is a deeply rooted perception that Bush is complicit in this

because of the relationship between the US and Israel

The image of a helicopter hovering around a Mosque waiting for a quadraplegic to emerge and then assassinate him in his wheelchair with super weapons is the most barbaric of all images so far to come out of this area. It is worse than the image of Rachel Corrie

It cannot be justified in any way at all.

[wabeewoman]

142. That is one of my chief objections

to the way US does foreign policy. We act as though we are God and get to decide who lives and dies because we can. The person who bullies because they can is in for a big fall when someone bigger and meaner comes along. The acts of terrorism we see today are the only way otherwise helpless people can fight against our military might. I used to side with Israel until I started paying more attention to one-sided the situation was. Israel has nuclear weapons and the other side has human bombs. Pictures often show boys throwing rocks at tanks. I saw a 60 minutes show a few years back about the despair the Palestinian youth live with-how they feel they have no future. The cartoons and comments you see about the Palestinians show a lot of racism against them and their religion. I certainly am not justifying their tactics but I really don't see they have any other option because they have no power except in terrorism. Just because someone rejects a peace plan really means nothing if the plan did not give equally to both sides. Emotions run strong on this issue here on DU-imagine how they feel over there....

[Suspicious]

139. Frightening.

I'm shocked at the number of people who have no problem with Israel's history of extra-judicial executions. I guess international law is irrelevant to some?

This is just bad - very bad. The potential ramifications are even worse.

[Chicago Democrat]

147. Supporters of this Assassination are in Moral Peril

Old time Catholics would call it a mortal sin.
A Buddhist would call it Bad Karma.

It is morally wrong to approve of these extra-judicial killings.

It is even worse to assist in them. As the supplier of over 100 billion dollars of military hardware to Israel, every single US taxpayer is indirectly responsible for this immoral action. Bush as our president is directly responsible. Sharon and the Israelis who gave Sharon power are most complicit in these murders. How can justice ever prevail?

I despair.

[number6]

152. you are right.

"It is morally wrong to approve of these extra-judicial killings"

and it will make the situation much worse.

[Name removed]

150. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

153. Please tell me you're being sarcastic with that last line of yours. (nt)

[HollywoodLiberal]

154. Extreme... but not sarcastic...

I mean, there's too much hate/violence/anger between muslims and jews and the jews have only been there since the late 40s. In it's short history it's been only killing. It isn't easy to say, but it's true, as long as non-muslims are on their land, violence will continue.

The Pals don't want to hear about anymore "peace treaties" and I don't blame them.

[Chicago Democrat]

156. Its why a solution needs to be imposed....

Both the Arabs and Israelis have unrealistic notions and they both must be forced to compromise. Real compromise.

67 borders, Jerusalem capital of both Israel and Palestine.. Pretty simple.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

160. What about a SECULAR state...

...in which everyone is FREE to exercise their religion, just like the good ole US of A? With UN troops (lots) enforcing the rules until everybody cools down? (in a century or two maybe)

[Chicago Democrat]

161. That is an excellent idea... But I think the Israeli majority

likes the fact that the Israeli state is officially Jewish. Given birth rate trends that might change in 20 or 30 years. In pre-1967 Israel, anyway the Israeli government is running out of Eastern European replacement immigration to fill the dwindling Jewish ranks.

The Palestinian future state also needs to respect the Jews and statements like the Hamas charter need to be publically rejected.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

163. If a state is secular, it won't matter if you are a minority.

Your culture, religion, tradition etc. are protected. A hypothetical Muslim majority wouldn't be able to stamp out Judaism -- that'd be unconstitutional.

Then there's the issue of a socially sensible economic policy and a credible safety net help a lot. I don't have the foggiest idea how those are in Israel right now.

[Chicago Democrat]

155. Hamas -are- radical and uncompromising...

They are like our "Sons of Liberty" doing terror attacks and basically they need to be reigned in by the Palestinian Authority eventually anyway. These statements from their charter are obviously just as bad as the Israeli targeted killings. There is no way Israel is going anywhere. Eventually Hammas will have to accept a two state solution and renounce these odious sections from its charter, much like the PLO did when Arafat rejected terrorism.

Either that or Armageddon will eventuate. There is only one possibility left. I pray that a brave American President will impose a solution on both sides. That is my only hope I have for peace.

[HollywoodLiberal]

158. Could an outside really do anything like that?

Because the only thing that would motivate them is threat of violence... but they already have plenty of that. Is the US just gonna shoot more of them until they behave?

I dunno... it just seems too crazy the way I see things to believe both those guys can live in harmony because of an outside force.

[Chicago Democrat]

162. Israel would never shoot us. The PLO would not dare to kill

an American. Not if we go in under the right negotiated circumstances. The USA has tremendous leverage with the people and the state of Israel. We love them. They are us. Israel and the USA are very much alike. So are the Palestinians. The USA could do it. I would support the US going there.

God Bless America

God Bless Israel

May Allah Bless the Palestinian State

[Barkley]

175. Israel would never shoot us? Tell that to Rachel Corrie's parents!

They didn't actually shoot her; they bulldozed her to death.
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml


"God Bless America ... and no place else."

- Chris Rock's Movie:
"Head of State"

[Chicago Democrat]

177. Yes but she was an activist, and it was a war crime.

They shot another Western activist today in the eye; he peacefully protesting the "wall" the Israeli goons also wounded 31 people who were peacefully protesting.

I was speaking about US soldiers, whom the Israelis will respect if for no other reason than we will kick their ass if they cross us!

[Muddleoftheroad]

192. No matter who you are

Failure to move from in front of heavy machinery is unwise.

Her death was unfortunate, but she had herself to blame.

[Muddleoftheroad]

193. Palestinian terrorists don't care if they kill Americans

They have done so before and likely will again.

As for a Palestinian state, I am quite for it, but only when the Palestinians decide to fight AGAINST terror and not either support or tolerate it.

[thingfish]

172. This is, quite possibly, the funniest fxxxing thread I've ever seen at DU.

Seriously. Unconscious satire of Swiftean proportions. It boggles the mind.

[Chicago Democrat]

178. How is anything here amusing?

Im in mourning for the entire world.

[Rationality]

187. I agree with Chicago: this matter isn't funny at all. (n/t)

[thingfish]

189. Mourn on, brother/sister, mourn on.

Sometimes a smile can be angry and sad.

[SKKY]

194. This is going to suck BIG TIME...

Holy hell is the fit about to hit the shan. Yassin was more popular than Arafat. What in the hell was Sharon thinking? This was a very, very bad move.

[Disturbed]

196. Attitudes

"And they should push the "Palestinian" animals into the sea."

Makes me wonder what this person is doing at a Democratic Board. This is repugnant.

[Stockholm]

197. He was a terrorist make no mistake...

But one has to wonder if not Sharon, by killing him in this way, made him more valuable to the rest of the fundamentalists as a martyr than had he lived a couple of more years and finally died a natural death.

[Chicago Democrat]

198. Sharon acts just like Tony Soprano!

Israel's mafia government orders hits just like the NJ mob.

Is there a special place in Hell for people like Sharon?

[Moderator]

199. Locking

Belongs in I/P by this point.