Ireland Lawmakers Want Unarmed Bush Visit

[UpInArms]

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/8248671.htm

DUBLIN, Ireland - Left-wing politicians opposed to a planned visit by President Bush called Monday for his Secret Service agents to be disarmed while in Ireland.

Opposition lawmakers denounced the government's confirmation that Bush's bodyguards would be allowed to open fire if deemed necessary to protect the president during a U.S.-European Union summit scheduled for June 25-26 in Ireland.

Justice Minister Michael McDowell, speaking during a two-day meeting of European police chiefs in Dublin, said U.S. Secret Service agents would be allowed to open fire if deemed necessary "to save lives."

"Shooting at anybody in Ireland is only done to save lives. That's a fundamental principle of our constitution and our common law, and it's not going to be abrogated in any way," McDowell said.

...more...

[Florida_Geek]

1. I would guess with all Bush's Negative Press

The left will win and Bush's Secret Service will be unarmed.

[NNN0LHI]

2. I don't want a bunch of armed Bush goons in my country either n/t

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[northzax]

30. hmm. I'd be opposed to clinton's 'goons' as well

but I bet they'll be armed, the President doesn't go anywhere without the Secret Service, and they are always armed. You think Tony Blair comes to the US without armed guards?

anyway, enjoy your stay here at DU...:wave:

[Mike Daniels]

3. Why don't they just disinvite him?

International relations aside I'm sorry, but their request is totally unreasonable. The Secret Services job is to protect the president and they need to be able to do that using whatever means are within reason to neutralize the threat.

If the secret service responds inappropriately and shoots or injures someone when it wasn't warranted I'm sure the official laws of Ireland will then be sufficient enough to investigate and prosecute the matter at that time.

[Pale_Rider]

4. Probably because Ireland would fear ...

... losing current and potential future US business ventures. From what I read in the Irish press, it was one of the major motivators for allowing US military aircraft to land in Shannon while enroute to bases around Iraq in the lead up to the war.

[izzie]

10. My daughter said many of her 'calls' are to the Irish.

She said she always asks if they are from Ireland and some tell her they are told to say no.Now mine seem to be to India as you can not miss that lilt in their speech. Does any one talk to an American's anymore? Every corp must be doing this now.

[Pale_Rider]

37. It appears that it's getting more likely that anyone ...

... will be able to talk to an American if they are calling for support. Welcome to off-shoring!

[alittlelark]

41. Yessssss-----welcome to________________

I am one of the voice talents that is doing it (if you could hear my voice, you would likely recognize me).. IM me if ya wanna know

I rationalize it by thinking that those I am relocating are low-skilled 2x turnaround per year employees.

But in reality, I feel as though I am complicit in gutting this country, even though all jobs stay here - just think - automation.

[atreides1]

6. One Question

How do the Irish prosecute a Secret Service agent, when the US is not a signatory of the ICC accords.

The US could point out that this prosecution is just for political
purposes.

[northzax]

31. The Secret Service is not a unfiormed Military unit

and therefore would not be subject to ICC. And the US and Ireland have a mutual extradition treaty, it it came to that.

no government will prosecute a guardian of a politician who fires in self defense.

[LiberalFighter]

35. Prosecute by accidental shooting?

[atreides1]

8. Extradition Treaty Between the US and Ireland

Article V
Discretionary Grounds For Refusal of Extradition

Extradition can be refused using section (b)

(b)when the competent authorities of the Requested State have
decided to refrain from prosecuting the person whose surrender
is sought for the offense for which extradition is requested,
or to discontinue any criminal proceedings which have been
initiated against that person for that offense.

There's the get out of jail free card.

And if anyone here really thinks that this administration is going to surrender a Secret Service agent to the law enforcement authorities of another country, I have some beach front property to sell you here
in Arizona. Well it will be beach front property when California falls off.

[mobuto]

12. Well, it depends

If a US Secret Service agent goes out and just murders some Irish person, of course we'll extradite him or her. Why wouldn't we? I might add that Presidents have made hundreds of foreign trips over the years, and yet I have never once heard of a Secret Service agent shooting a local. Is this really a pressing problem?

[atreides1]

16. No It's Not a Pressing Problem

And you're correct I don't think anyone has heard of a SS agent shooting a local, but that does not mean that it can't happen.

We're not talking about murder, we are discussing what an agent might do in a situation that they might consider the President's life to be in danger. While US authorities might consider it in the line of duty,
Irish authorities might not, and would want an investigation, with the possibility of a prosecution.

What guarantee do you have that this particular administration would extradite the agent. They seem to consider themselves above the law,
and don't feel that they should have to answer to anyone.

[mobuto]

24. The problem

of Secret Service agents terrorizing local populations with their firearms is simply nonexistant. On the other hand, there is a very real problem of US Presidents getting shot. If the Irish invite the President of the United States for a visit, they should do so with the understanding that the United States will want to take what security precautions it deems necessary. There's nothing more clear-cut than that.

[atreides1]

42. Agree to Disagree

Once again there was no statement of the SS agents terrorizing local populations with their firearms, but if you wish to assume that's what
I said, that's your perogative. Perhaps the Irish could provide security, after all it is there country.

With this administration anything can happen, if you want to defend them and play the "they can do no wrong" game, then please go right ahead and do so.

I'm afraid I don't trust the government as much as you do, and I don't trust this administration to ever do the right thing, so far
they haven't.

Simply said we must agree to disagree, and leave it at that. Maybe we are on the same side, and maybe we're not. But if the day ever comes
I would hope that you would be on the same side of the barricades as me. If not, then so be it, may the best aim win!!!

[LiberalFighter]

36. When will California fall off?

When Ahnuld destroys the government?

[terisel]

5. Sounds like they want to scare Bush into canceling his trip. n/t

[twilight]

7. No, Ireland says to Bush STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM HERE!

and take your warmongering arse elsewhere! :nuke:


:dem: :kick:

[Mari333]

9. I just spoke on Irish radio and they dont want him there!!!

Karen Coleman interviewed me and asked me specifically how I felt about Bush coming to Dublin and I told her they can keep him, send him off to the tower of London along with Blair, and we dont want him back..I also told her on the radio to please protest him if he tries to visit..
She said they hate Bush there and we should all move to Ireland because the whole populace hates him with a passion.
So stay out of Ireland Bush! They hate you more then we do, and thats saying a lot.

[mmm]

33. WOW! Someone who hates Bush more than we do...

I cannot fathom that :)

[mobuto]

11. Stupid demand

This isn't about Bush so much as the Presidency of the United States. I wouldn't want the President - whoever he is - to go anywhere without armed Secret Service protection. I think we learned the last time around just how traumatic an experience the death of a President can be.

[Mari333]

13. Its a grand demand!! they are telling Bush hes not the fooking KING

and he might as well stay the hell out of Ireland because hes not wanted...the Irish people hate him, and he has to follow the rule of law in Ireland or he can stay home and pick his fooking nose. They dont want that slimey little bastard in their country and they have every right to tell him how to behave when he and his goons come there.
Its long fucking overdue that countries stand up to that little bastard.
Go Ireland!!!!

[mobuto]

14. Except the Irish invited him

Either invite Bush or don't invite Bush. But don't ask the United States to jeopardize the President's life unnecessarily.

[Mari333]

15. who invited him and why cant he go by their rules?

if he cant abide by their rules, fuck him. The Irish majority hates the SOB and if anyone invited him, and we dont know who, then let the populace deal with him and who cares what happens to him..I dont..my stepson is being fired on daily by actual guns and mortars and he doesnt have a damned bit of protection from them except for a helmet and a vest and has to travel in inadequate Humvees and lousy gear and was sent into a country he didnt even want to go to to be shot at
Therefore let Bush be put in the same position..
Besides, hes not the President. Hes a bastard in the White House and we have been living in a coup d'etat for 3 and one half years.
I could care less what happens to Bush. Lowlife fratboy whose daddy bought him the power to be there.
Not My President. Just some asshole in the White House.
Go Ireland! Tell that little bastard whose in charge.

[Tarheel_Dem]

21. woo-hoo!

agree 100% mari3333. your stepson is in my thoughts & prayers. i hope this s**t is over sooner than later. i want my country back, and i want someone in charge whom i can be proud of, and who the international community respects. where the hell's the big dog when you need him, they love him in europe.

b.a.

[truth2power]

28. My thoughts exactly, Mari!

:thumbsup:

[July]

19. Why wouldn't the Irish police protect him,

just as a visiting dignitary would be protected by our law enforcement agents here?

[mobuto]

25. Well they would

but the Secret Service feels that it isn't enough to rely on Irish law enforcement. This is not a new policy, nor should it come as a surprise to the Irish government. And foreign heads of state or government often DO bring their security details with them on visits to the United States.

[TankLV]

26. I especially wouldn't want a martyr, either.

They should simply disinvite him.

Tell the lying, thieving, literal-son-of-a-bitch to stay the hell out.

[Auntie Bush]

39. That was one of the worst things in my life

and I shed many many tears...but I don't think I'd shed too many for Bush even though I would hate for anything like that to happen.
As much as I dislike him...I'd hate for that to happen!

[Bridget Burke]

17. He'll only be there 12 hours--and it's for the EU/US summit....

Not a visit focused on Ireland. "US president George Bush will stay only 12 hours when he visits the Republic in June for an EU-US summit, The Irish Times has learned, and most of that time will be overnight.

"Plans for the visit, now well advanced, indicate that Mr Bush will arrive late on June 25th from Washington and stay the night at a location outside Dublin, possibly Dromoland Castle in Co Clare or Ashford Castle in Co Mayo.

"The formal summit meeting on June 26th is expected to last two hours, followed by a 90-minute working lunch, according to sources in Washington."

www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2004/0322/4151600008HM1BUSH.html

I seem to remember he'll be flying into Shannon. Both castles being considered for his overnight stay are in the West--"outside Dublin", indeed. The location for his brief meeting with EU leaders is "at a location yet to be decided." I doubt he'll be anywhere near Dublin; as usual for our delicate, fragile "president", avoiding protesters is probably more urgent than security.

www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2004/0302/4103797488HM1CONOR.html

Could the Irish authorities be winding him up? Could they be displaying a lack of proper respect? Could they be hoping he'll change his little mind? Some Irish MEP's have urged moving the meeting to Brussels: "Clearly, there’s no Irish-American votes to be had in Brussels and that’s the one priority for Bush - to get re-elected," she (MEP Patricia McKenna) said.

"I don’t think that Ireland should facilitate his re-election. He has done untold damage to global security. He has made the world a more insecure rather than a more secure place and I believe it would be in the interests of the international community not to give support to Bush’s re-election campaign by allowing him to come to Ireland."

http://breaking.examiner.ie/2004/03/18/story138788.html

[tlcandie]

18. Go McKenna!!! That's the spirit!!!!

Cheers! :toast: :bounce:

Make him do a televised via computer hookup and all if he wants to attend. His very presence is dangerous and divisive for every nation!

[colonel odis]

20. that in itself is reason to disinvite him

his presence creates unnecessary danger for the irish people. security for him would be expensive and not the best use of irish resources. and his attendance would create anger among the population, which could result in demonstrations that would create even more demand on the country's resources.

tell his butt to stay home. he's just trying to milk it for as many free trips as possible.

[Zolok]

22. The secret service won't agree to this...

nor should they...
Ireland is a country with a long familiarity with terrorism from within and without.
It would be foolhardy for Bush to go under such circumstances...he should cancel the visit.
It's not like he has anything sensible or even honest to say to the Irish People.


www.chimesatmidnight.blogspot.com

[Florida_Geek]

23. This came up on his trip to Britain

it is not only do they want to carry guns, but not be held responsible for shooting anybody. It is the second part that upsets most people.

They just said it was OK to shoot a camera man in Iraq because his camera could have be a missle launcher.

[madrchsod]

27. maybe they don`t want to pay

for the extra security and more important they don`t want their flower gardens ruined..i don`t think they`d have that problem with kerry..

[smirkymonkey]

32. I think Ireland has probably had it with

Imperialists "promising" not to shoot unless absolutely "necessary". They've learned their lesson from the RUC and I don't blame them one bit for being wary of the SS.

[Don_G]

34. An Old Saying Comes To Mind

I've never known a skunk to be welcome at a picnic.

[jeanmarc]

38. If this were a War of Wits, then Ireland already has their wish [nt]

[struggle4progress]

40. He travels with the biggest #$@! armed posse ...

Remember the trip to visit the Queen?