FBI: Big Arrest in Domestic Terror Fight

[FatSlob]

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pub&dt=040323&cat=us&st=useco_terrorism_040323&src=abc&view=print

Commentary: Another win against terror. Even though some of us may sympathize with their views, ELF and people like this are terrorists and dangerous. I'm glad to see this enviro-thug arrested, may he rot in prison.

*********************
The FBI's capture of a prominent figure in what it calls the nation's worst domestic terrorist threat may do little to slow the radical environmental movement known as the Earth Liberation Front, federal authorities acknowledge.

The suspect, Tre Arrow, also known as Michael Scarpitti and numerous other pseudonyms, is a charismatic figure who has run for political office before running from the law after being accused as the ringleader in a pair of environmentally motivated arson attacks.

"It's a very big capture for us," said Beth Anne Steele, spokeswoman for the Portland, Ore., office of the FBI. " been indicted in two firebombing cases here. He's certainly very important to us. It remains to be seen what broader effect the arrest will have."

(click link above to read rest of article)

[soleft]

1. 22 years for destroying 3 SUV's???

Yet one ELF activist, now serving a 22-year prison sentence for an arson attack that destroyed three SUVs at a Eugene, Ore., car dealership, has not allowed prison to stop his activism. Jeffery "Free" Luers has written extensively for alternative media and has a Web site.

[DrWeird]

2. That's the worst domestic terrorist threat?

Jesus fucking Christ.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

7. Yeah, cyanide bombs are just a harmless prank, I guess.

Jesus H. Christ on a stuffed platypus. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[DrWeird]

24. cyanide bombs?

I missed that.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

27. Here

Puts their hootin' and hollerin' about a man who vandalizes cars in a whole new perspective:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=435181

[leftistagitator]

41. The cyanide bombs were a right wing organization not linked to the ELF

I know that you know that, but I just wanted to make sure there was no confusion for the skimmers out there. For a minute, I thought you were saying that this Tre Arrow guy was building these terrorist devices.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

45. Exactly -- they only become happy when getting terrorists if they're...

...lefty. Or swarthy. Or both.

[whistle]

15. I just calculated what the military and U.S. government will be spending..

...on 55 million more barrels of imported crude to get our reserves to 100%. It looks like around $2.1 billion and it could be higher as this seems to be a contributing factor for the higher oil prices. This also means that the government reserve will be 786 million barrels of oil, which will just sit there not being used while oil prices continue to rise and non-military demand continues to rise at the 3% to 5% per year level. The Bush administration's priorities are really transparent.:eyes:

[proud patriot]

3. People may disagree with me but

IMHO Good , because these ELF people did nothing
for the cause of Environmental protection. In fact
they hampered it by turning me off by their tactics .

I'm one of the most pro Animal and Evironmental
Caring individual you'll find .

Again this is just my opinion .

[54anickel]

17. I agree that they should be prosecuted under criminal law, but to

use the expanded definition afforded by the Patriot Act is, IMHO a misuse.

http://www.aclu.org/NationalSecurity/NationalSecurity.cfm?ID=11437&c=111

[proud patriot]

33. I agree on the misuse of the patriot act here

while glad the elf people will be prosecuted ,
I'm not happy with the governments use of the
patriot act .

[54anickel]

34. With the name of Proud Patriot, I figured you probably felt that way

:hi:

[Vladimir]

23. No, I think you are right

I think those who undertake acts of violence in the name of protecting the environment or animals are profoundly anti-humanist. Even if it is only against SUVs, it should still be punished, although calling it terrorism is OTT IMO and allows the FBI a few cheap points in "the war against terror"...

V

[arcos]

4. "Another win against terror"

Can you name any other "win against terror"?
I can't.

[DarkPhenyx]

11. The decline of the KKK in America.

yes, they are still around and still somewhat active, but their terrorist activities have been severely curtailed.

[FatSlob]

14. Good one!

They're almost to non-entity status. I hate those guys too.

[Romulus]

5. To combat these "tools of terror," I propose

licensing of all bolt-cutter owners, and registration of these "weapons of eco-war" with the government, if not outright banning. After all, no one needs one of those things for home improvement projects.

"He tries to come across as this vegan, 'I'm just an Earth-loving person,' but we don't buy that," Anthony said. "After all, bolt cutters are one of the primary tools in an eco-terrorist's tool box."

[Droopy]

6. "Another win against terror"

Have there been any others?

[FatSlob]

8. That Hamas guy being killed

The destruction of the Taliban.
The conviction of McVeigh.

[DarkPhenyx]

13. The killing of the Hamas leader...

...under the circumstances it took place, was not a victory except for the terrorists.

<on edit>

we also haven't destroyed the Taliban. They are making a comback in Afanistan and regaining control of some regions.

[DenverDem]

9. The most dangerous eco-terrorist is George W Bush.

After this destructive administration there will be little left to save.

[UpInArms]

10. good gawd man - I thought maybe we found the anthraxer

:puke:

SUV's do not come up to my book with the attempt to kill people - and there were lots of dead postal workers from the anthrax mailings

[DarkPhenyx]

16. Define lots.

I don't remember there being that many that actually died.

[UpInArms]

18. should have said

lots of sick and a few dead - I believe the number was around 5 plus that guy that died working for American Media in Florida.

http://www.boston.com/news/packages/anthrax/cases.htm

Robert Stevens, 63, a photo editor for American Media's "The Sun" in Boca Raton, Fla., died on Oct. 5. Photo

Thomas Morris Jr., 55, a Washington postal worker, died on Oct. 21.
Joseph Curseen, 47, a Washington postal worker, died on Oct. 22. Photo

Kathy T. Nguyen, 61, a stockroom worker at Manhattan Eye, Ear, and Throat Hospital. Nguyen died Oct. 31. She was the first person in New York to catch the disease by breathing spores.

Ottilie Lundgren, 94, a retiree from Oxford, Conn., died Nov. 21. Photo

Leroy Richmond, 57, a Washington postal worker.
A 59-year-old male postal worker from the State Department's offsite mail room.

Another male postal worker from Washington, whose name was not released.

Norma Wallace, 56, a postal worker in Hamilton N.J.
Another female postal worker from Hamilton, N.J., whose name was not released.

Ernesto Blanco, 73, a mail room worker at American Media in Boca Raton, Fla, was released from the hospital on Oct. 23.





Skin anthrax cases



About skin, or cutaneous, anthrax
A 51-year-old woman, an accountant at a company near the Hamilton, N.J., mail facility, was treated with antibiotics.

Erin O'Connor, 38, anchor Tom Brokaw's assistant at NBC News in New York, was treated with antibiotics.

The seven-month-old son of an ABC News producer in New York was treated with antibiotics.

Claire Fletcher, 27, an assistant to CBS anchor Dan Rather in New York, was treated with antibiotics.

Johanna Huden, 30, an assistant to the editorial page editor at the New York Post, was treated with antibiotics.

Teresa Heller, a letter carrier at the West Trenton post office in Ewing, N.J., was treated with antibiotics.

Patrick O'Donnell, 35, who sorts and loads mail in Hamilton, N.J., was treated with antibiotics.

[cspiguy]

12. how convenient of a headline for today's news camoflage.

n/t

[The Stranger]

19. Weren't there some nice people in East Texas storing chemical weapons

recently? How do you feel about those people, FatSlob? You don't think they are a threat?

[FatSlob]

28. I'm not familiar with that

Please post a link so I can familiarize myself. Since I don't know about them, I don't know if they are/were a threat. Post link, I'll let you know.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

39. See post #27 (nt)

[Skip Intro]

20. "no one has been killed" by ELF, and I don't find them to be "evil"

"ELF has no leadership structure; individuals or small cells carry out actions on their own. The only link is a shared belief that radical action is needed to stop development, logging, pollution, genetic engineering research and anything else seen as threatening to the environment.

In the hundreds of incidents the group has claimed responsibility for, no one has been killed and only a handful of people have been injured, and postings on the group's Web site have generally expressed the belief that all life is sacred and actions should be carried out in such a way as to minimize the risk of injury."
----------

There is great debate about the state of the earth's environment, and what the near future may hold. The Pentagon recently released a report citing global warming as a greater threat than terrorism, I believe. Our food is killing us. Our air is dirty, our water is dirty, species are disappearing. And the current regime seems intent on speeding up the environment's decline. This is important stuff.

On top of that, we have just invaded a nation, and taken control of its oil reserves - some of the largest in the world. We didn't invade for the reasons given, and many believe, myself included, that we invaded solely to steal that nation's oil. It seems obscene, if you think about it, to have gas guzzling suvs churning up the roads while blood is being spilled to keep the gas flowing, if in fact, that is the case. Not to mention the pending rape of ANWR for a few more drops to fill the tanks.

And while people may disagree with the severity of the situation and the prognosis, one thing is sure, Hummers aren't helping.

As long as no one's hurt, I really just don't have a problem with ELF. That's wrong, I guess, because they are breaking the law, but I just don't find a sense of outrage about it within myself. Considering the state of things, and where we appear to be heading, environmentally, ELF's actions just don't bother me. Maybe they should, but they don't.

And I sure as hell wouldn't trumpet an arrest of one of their members as a win in the war on terror.

[leftistagitator]

21. Destroying property is not terrorism

I think you have to try to kill at least one person before they get the right to call you a terrorists, otherwise the usage of that word is going to spiral out of control. I don't want to end up like China where they call you a terrorist just for disagreeing with them politically.

http://www.clearharmony.net/articles/200203/3430.html

[DarkPhenyx]

25. The use of force or violence to cause fear and/or...

...to promote your polotical goals gets you labeled as a terrorist. Killing people isn't necessary.

[leftistagitator]

36. I disagree

that's way to broad a definition IMO.

[DarkPhenyx]

42. So give us a better one.

I am more than open to someone who can provide a better one.

the alst time someone tried though we came to the conclusion that had the terrorists on 9/11 just destroyed the buildings it wouldn't have been terrorism. Don't know about you but I'm not comfortable with that statement.

[el_gato]

44. as the world goes up in flames due to environmental destruction

some people whine and cry about ELF

lame

[DarkPhenyx]

54. As ELF does more damage to the cause of Environmentalism...

...than it does good, and people still support and protect them.

Lame.

[FatSlob]

55. This is weird.

I'm siding with DP multiple times this day. You tell 'em. ELF is wrong.

[DarkPhenyx]

56. ELF isn't wrong. Their goals are laudable if not downright noble.

They are misguided however. Like many zelots they have lost the true path.

[FatSlob]

59. I agree with you

I guess that didn't come through. Their means are not justified by their ends.

[leftistagitator]

51. If there had been no people hurt in 9/11 at all

then it wouldn't have been terrorism, it would have been an extreme form of vandalism. The perpretraitors would have been charged with about 500 counts of felony vandalism, and would have been put away for life, but they would not be terrorists. It was the 3000 lives lost that make me hate Al Queda, not the buildings. I think terrorism is the use of force or violence against people to achieve a political ends, not property. Disagree if you like, but I think that a broader definition of terrorism devalues the word. They could have called this guy a vandal or an arsonist, but calling him a terrorist seems to be going a bit far.

[DarkPhenyx]

53. Your POV, while understandable...

...is likely to be viewed as extreme by most people.

[HuckleB]

37. So then every child and teenage bully should be labeled a terrorist?

After all they are using force and violence to cause fear in order to promote their own political goals...

[DarkPhenyx]

40. You are correct.

Congratulations.

[HuckleB]

43. In other words...

very few people in this world, probably those worthy of sainthood, will get through this life without performing an act of terrorism?

Hmm. So what's the big deal about terrorism then?

[DarkPhenyx]

52. Which is also a good question.

I think, if you looked closely, you would find many of our heros were terrorists. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter after all.

[HuckleB]

61. And so why the hysteria?

If we're all terrorists at one point in time or another?

And, if we are, should we have a color coded system to differentiate between the levels of terrorists?

[DarkPhenyx]

63. The hysteria comes in when you get to factors of scale.

Bullying a kid on teh playground is a quantum level behind eco-terrorism, which is another level behind international terrorism.

[HuckleB]

64. So we do need a color code for levels of terrorism, then?

}(

[DarkPhenyx]

65. No.

We need a new President.

[HuckleB]

66. Well, that was a fast change of topic. But, hey, I agree.

[WhereIsMyFreedom]

67. Wait

If I bully two kids each from a different country, doesn't that make me an international terrorist?

[Earth_First]

22. Every night is Earth night...

n/t

[DarkPhenyx]

26. So what's your point?

We need to know what you are really trying to say before we can agree or disagree with you.

[Earth_First]

29. Do some research...

n/t

[DarkPhenyx]

32. OK, you refuse to answer.

that's cool. No skin off my nose and all that.

[FatSlob]

30. Maybe he's one of those ELFers.

Hopefully he'll tell us what that post was about.

[Earth_First]

31. ELF, no

n/t

[FatSlob]

46. Then perhaps another Radical/Reactoinary organization,

alliance, cell, loose-knit group of people?

[Earth_First]

47. You'll have to excuse my reluctance to discuss my activism

be it participatory, vocal, ideologically et. al over electronic communications, especially so, when questioned as to which "alliance, cell, or loose-knit group of people" i may or may not be affiliated with. this is quite an intrusive question to pose having no affirmation as to who may be requesting such information, im sure you'll understand...

[FatSlob]

48. I understand

It might not be in the interests of you or your group to identify itself to some of the "lurkers" on the board. I do ask you, however, to be safe, and keep it legal, we don't want to have to read about you in the papers.

[Earth_First]

49. Always...

thank you for your concern...

[HuckleB]

35. This guy is a bozo, and he's suspected of arson/property destruction.

But he's no terrorist.

I think it's time for some perspective. I love this quote from Khassan Baiev in his book "The Oath: A Surgeon Under Fire," which is a must read for all who care about what's happening on this planet today, IMHO.

"By today's standards, England surely would have called George Washington a terrorist."

[mac1000a]

38. He's an arsonist, not a terrorist

Yeah he's a criminal, and he should be prosecuted. I hate SUV's with a fiery passion, but that doesn't give me the right to go blow them up. But I think we all need to be careful about who or what we label a terrorist. To me, terrorism means the indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians. It means you just want to kill to make a point, and you don't care if it kills the innocent or the guilty. Setting fires to SUV's doesn't qualify as terrorism in my book. If we apply the term terrorist too loosely, we only give power to those who want to call all dissenters terrorists.

[dawn]

50. I think he should be in jail, but.....

why should he get more time than someone convicted of raping a woman, or assaulting someone, or someone killed by a drunk driver? Involuntary manslaughter is what many drunk drivers get off on. I used to work for a lawyer who got only five years for killing someone while he was driving drunk.

[Whoa_Nelly]

57. Well! This "terr'st" news is great

in order to overshadow the news/updates of the panel questioning Rumsfeld and Tenet today. :mad:

[Disturbed]

58. SUVs

They are sacred objects. 22 years in prison is justice. WTF?

[FatSlob]

60. Arson is a felony

[rinsd]

62. Should have stuck to vandalizing.....

Such as spray paint, tire slashing etc.

The state does not look kindly at arson.

He could have taken a baseball bat to the SUV smashing it to bits. But when fire was used, the nature of the crime changes.

[Freddie Stubbs]

68. Burning vehicles can explode. Explosions can kill people

If you want to change public policy, do it at the ballot box.