Likely al-Qaida tape seeks Pakistan coup

[varun]

Posted on Thu, Mar. 25, 2004
Likely al-Qaida tape seeks Pakistan coup
By SARAH EL DEEB
Associated Press

CAIRO, Egypt - A tape purportedly recorded by Ayman al-Zawahri, the No. 2 in the al-Qaida terror group, called Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf a traitor Thursday and urged people to get rid of his government.

The audiotape was broadcast by the pan-Arab satellite channel Al-Jazeera.

The speaker, who sounded like al-Zawahri, also called for a military uprising in Pakistan.

"Musharraf seeks to stab the Islamic resistance in Afghanistan in the back," the speaker on the tape said....

[denverbill]

1. It's just a matter of time.

Boy will that ever be fun. Nuclear armed Pakistan headed by fundamentalist Islamists.

[mobuto]

3. That will be war

Preemptive attacks are morally and legally justified. If somebody's about to attack you, then you are completely right to attack it first. If Pakistan is ever taken over by Al Qaeda, God forbid, then we must attack Pakistan or else we will be destroyed. This is completely different than the war on Iraq, which was not at all preemptive. It was simply unnecessary.

[thebigidea]

5. uh huh

"This is completely different than the war on Iraq, which was not at all preemptive."

Not according to nearly every word out of their lying mouths.

[Chicago Democrat]

6. That logic is insane...

With a strategy like that Nuclear Armageddon is CERTAIN.

Islamists will get nukes. Islamic countries already have nukes. Get used to this idea, its already happened. But this is not the concern.Even if the most hateful, anti-US country gets nukes; there is absolutely nothing to worry about, since we also have a nuclear deterrence.

(you will immediately say,that they will give the nukes to terrorists) To which I say so what? We can still trace where the Nuclear material came from and launch a retaliatory strike. Therefore the Islamists would be insane to launch a terrorists Nuclear strike. (I assume you are aware that that nuclear fallout is traceable to the country of origin) Therefore there is no such thing as a nuclear strike that could not be traced to the maker of that bomb, so makers of bombs will not allow first strikes to happen.

It is the reason why nuclear war has not happened since 1948 when the Soviets got it. MAD or Mutually Assured Destruction (At least their destruction) still works.

[mobuto]

7. With Al Qaeda running Pakistan

nuclear armageddon would be certain.

Islamists will get nukes. Islamic countries already have nukes. Get used to this idea, its already happened.

No it hasn't already happened. I have no special problem with Muslims controlling nuclear weapons. But I do have a problem with them falling into the hands of Islamist radicals who would use them against us. They won't give the weapons to terrorists, they are the terrorists.

can still trace where the Nuclear material came from and launch a retaliatory strike.

So? So we kill five million residents of Karachi. You think that makes sense? These are people unafraid to die and who are willing to martyr their own people.

Therefore the Islamists would be insane to launch a terrorists Nuclear strike

I agree completely. However the Islamists are insane.

[Chicago Democrat]

10. Calling them "insane" doesn't make them so.

They have been anything but insane. They have been extremely logical and brave and self sacrificing and with only a few thousand people they have fought to -at best- a perpetual stalemate the greatest power the earth has ever seen. To call them all insane is simplistic, wrong and completely understates the complexity of the problem of our enemy.

They are not insane. Point to one single thing they have done or said that is "insane". Insanity is irrational, our enemy is completely rational and highly motivated and educated.

Back to my original point, when AlQuaeda-like people take over Pakistan, which they INEVITABLY WILL, mutually assured destruction will save the world from the Pakistan arsenal, just as MAD saved us from the Soviet arsenal..

The key to Nuclear security is knowledge, knowledge by strong international agencies of all existing nuclear stockpiles and then international cooperation in monitoring these weapons. Knowledge is all we need for security as the force of knowing with certainty that everything you ever had, your home country of Pakistan or whatever would be obliterate forever will deter any rational, non-insane leader. Osama is not insane, just very committed to a highly predictable set of tactics that have achieved very much, from his perspective.

If anything the Bush's' invasion Iraq because of 9/11 is "insane".

A pre-emptive Nuclearstrike on Pakistan just because an Ayatolla type figure takes over is insane, illegal, immoral, wrong and stupid.

No they have to strike first....Thats the rules for a civilized world.

[mobuto]

11. Fought to a stalemate?

What have they done? Al Qaeda hasn't done shit. They have no real agenda, no message, no nothing, beyond their primal fear of modernity. They see Coca Cola and they see emancipated women and they get angry, but they have no answer. So they can't win.

Back to my original point, when AlQuaeda-like people take over Pakistan, which they INEVITABLY WILL, mutually assured destruction will save the world from the Pakistan arsenal, just as MAD saved us from the Soviet arsenal..

1. Historical inevitability is bunk. Nothing is inevitable except death and taxes.

2. Al Qaeda-like people commit suicide on an almost weekly basis somewhere in the world. How could people who are willing to fly planes into a building be deterred by the threat of destruction? And you're not going to convince me that they'll be worried for their neighbors. They've had no problems killing innocent Muslims in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kenya, Tanzania, Indonesia, and other places.

A pre-emptive Nuclearstrike on Pakistan just because an Ayatolla type figure takes over is insane, illegal, immoral, wrong and stupid.


Agreed. I didn't call for a preemptive nuclear strike. The 82nd Airborn seem better suited anyway.

[Chicago Democrat]

12. You called for an immediate pre-emptive strike on a nuclear power.

if an pro-Bin Laden politician takes over in Pakistan?

Which would mean nuclear war, of course. Invading a country just because you don't like their government is barbaric and the ordinary Pakistanis would be backed into a corner and then nuclear war is virtually certain. While I agree, there are no absolutes there does exist 99% possibilities.

"2. Al Qaeda-like people commit suicide on an almost weekly basis somewhere in the world. How could people who are willing to fly planes into a building be deterred by the threat of destruction? And you're not going to convince me that they'll be worried for their neighbors. They've had no problems killing innocent Muslims in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kenya, Tanzania, Indonesia, and other places."

I have been talking about Nuclear War.

It is one thing to kill oneself and the "enemy". It is quite another to start a nuclear war. Nuclear weapons are big, bulky and highly traceable. Nuclear retribution against the whole of Pakistan 99.9999999999999999999% certain and that would mean all their precious stupid mosques and mummie and daddie and probably Mecca just for good measure.

So knowing this, Hakim Jihadddi is going to sail a dingee to Washington harbor and blow himself up?? Oh yes, and King Ayatolla Al Crazy of Pakistan has to approve of it all! Human nature is human nature and people love themselves and hate their enemies. They always take actions that help themselves and hurt their enemies. Therefore because all people love themselves, they would never launch a nuclear war against a nuclear armed enemy.

-----------

Regarding your innaccurate assertion that Al Quada hasnt done shit let me refresh you on a just a few of their 'successes'

1) They disrupted the US economy and cost the world Trillions in wealth.
2) They started a World War that has no end in sight.
3) They have destroyed the Western Alliance.
4) They have baited the US into attacking a sovereign Arab nation and united all of Islam against us.
5) They have become the central issue is every single election in the entire world.

Do I really need to go on?

I love all Democrats and speak to you from the heart, dear sir and bear you no ill will. God bless you and I am sorry if I cannot persuade, but only ask you don't bear a grudge for my heart felt beliefs.

[soleft]

2. Link?

[mobuto]

4. Here's a link

http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=news&start=0&num=1&q=http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/lateststories/index.ssf%3F/base/international-12/108023908223370.xml

[Emboldened Chimp]

8. You mean, a coup to reverse the one that put Musharraf in power?

[rawstory]

9. Hmm.

Does this come as any surprise?