Senate passes Fetus Rights bill

[librechik]

House passed it last month--

this is the latest link, but doesn't have the passage yet
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/2468117

snip
WASHINGTON -- Congress stood ready today to send President Bush legislation making it a separate offense to harm a fetus during a violent federal crime, an issue that has become tangled with the battle over abortion.

The Senate cleared the way for passing the Unborn Victims of Violence Act by defeating an amendment, backed by abortion rights lawmakers, that would have increased penalties but maintained that an attack on a pregnant victim was a single-victim crime.

The House approved the legislation last month.

The vote is being closely watched by anti-abortion and other conservative groups, who have made passage of the measure one of their top goals this year. Abortion rights groups say the bill is an effort to undermine a woman's right to end her pregnancy

WASHINGTON -- Congress stood ready today to send President Bush legislation making it a separate offense to harm a fetus during a violent federal crime, an issue that has become tangled with the battle over abortion.

The Senate cleared the way for passing the Unborn Victims of Violence Act by defeating an amendment, backed by abortion rights lawmakers, that would have increased penalties but maintained that an attack on a pregnant victim was a single-victim crime.

The House approved the legislation last month.

The vote is being closely watched by anti-abortion and other conservative groups, who have made passage of the measure one of their top goals this year. Abortion rights groups say the bill is an effort to undermine a woman's right to end her pregnancy

[leftchick]

1. please let it be Feinsteins amended one...

:scared:

[librechik]

2. sorry, they defeated that amendment

snip

"The Senate cleared the way for passage with a 50-49 vote to
defeat an amendment, backed by opponents of the bill, that would
have increased penalties but maintained that an attack on a
pregnant woman was a single-victim crime..."

[still_one]

3. If Kerry doesn't win

this will be the last election I will vote in

It will not matter anymore!!!

[Zhade]

12. Don't worry. If b*sh stays in, there won't BE another election!

NT!

[The Zanti Regent]

32. It's Handmaiden's Tale time folks!

Are YOU ready to Run for the Border if the Nazi Party steals another SELECTION?

[tom_paine]

38. Some are ready for something else...

[Malva Zebrina]

42. In an interview with Ray Talliaferro two days ago

Howard Zinn said that it is obvious that we cannot depend upon politicians in office to change things. They will always gravitate toward wealth, and what finances their bids for office. I think that is a correct observation as we have seen, especially within the last three years and most likely even before.

He state unequivocally that if change were to be forthcoming, it would have to be from the people and not from the politicians in office.

[SemperEadem]

43. miscarriage can be interpreted as manslaughter now

by sick minded repuke prosecutors looking to make a name for themselves while carving their career out of a woman's rights...

is her doctor now obligated to inform the government if a baby doesn't make it to term?

[MaineDem]

4. Anyone else just feel like crying?

Ok, maybe it's a typically female thing to do but I'm so frustrated and disappointed by all this. I'm honestly not sure how much more I'm going to be able to handle.

[Lindsay]

5. MaineDem, I hear ya.

So many of us worked so hard for so long...only to feel Rethug boots on the backs of our necks again. I cry for all my sisters.

[murielm99]

14. I see your Emily's List avatar, MaineDem.

That must mean that you are willing to keep working. We will just have to keep supporting the right people to represent us in congress. We will have to see that this travesty of a law gets overturned as unconstitutional.

I graduated from college in 1971, so I remember when girls had to go to backstreet abortionists. I remember how hard it was to get the pill if you were not married.

Even if we have to start all over from scratch, we will keep fighting these bastards. Don't lose hope.

Will I see you in Washington, at the March, in April?

[MaineDem]

46. I'm wait-listed for a bus to the march

I feel so strongly about this issue that I told my husband I'm going!
I think he thinks I've gone over the edge but I'll later regret not going. I've signed up with the DNC's Women's Vote Center to be part of their contingent at the march.

[tom_paine]

39. Be strong, MaineDem

If you read your history, George Washington was despondant in 1780 and certain that our cause was lost. The army was dwindling, his money was running out, the French were sitting up in Rhode Island drilling far wawy from where they were needed.

Some say that Washington was quietly (he tried very hard to keep this all to himself so as not to wreck what precious little morale his officers had left) planning for life under British Rule.

Within 1 1/2 years, we had won.

Take heart from that example.

It looks bad now. But that doesn't mean it's over.

[MaineDem]

47. Good point, Tom

I had forgotten about that. I will keep Washington's thoughts in mind.

I am so thankful that at least one of my GOP Senators (Olympia Snowe) voted against this bill. I plan on letting both of the lady Senators know exactly how I feel about their votes.

[xchrom]

6. ignorant pigs

ya know the culture war is getting warm folks.
this is a pretty good shot over the heads of liberals.
interesting.

[Old and In the Way]

7. The war on America continues.

If this stands, then abortion will be illegal. How can you bestow personhood in one case, but not follow through in every case? Certainly, if a fetus can be counted as a person in a murder case, abortion must become manslaughter.

So when will the federal government force pregnant women to wear monitors? And when will the mandatory daily pregnancy tests become administered? Brave new world, indeed.

This RW wackos just don't understand the ramifications of their knee-jerk, appease the extreme Right actions.

The good news is that millions of Independents will slide into the Democratic column.

[KamaAina]

9. I'm afraid that the RW wackos do indeed understand

the ramifications of their knee-jerk, appease the extreme Right actions.

That's what they want for society. Our society.

That's why I hate their slimy, smelly guts so doggone much, even though I know perfectly well that all that hate isn't good for me.

That's why we need to chase them out of power before it's too late.

[Voltaire99]

28. That is why I hate them, too

Their goal is to expunge modernity and re-brand us all as Christian Soldiers, the better to man their Wal-Marts and their armies.

Hate is certainly not good for one, no. But what is the choice? Shall we "love our neighbor as ourselves" as these totalitarians proceed with their cultural cleansing?

I shall leave that to the "bipartisan" crowd--the appeasers like Dasche.

[Hekate]

31. First and foremost they want to outlaw ALL abortions...

...from the moment of conception. This is the stated goal of the anti-choice people, and if the wingnut Congressional leaders are saying differently, they are lying in service to their ultimate goal. I don't think these laws will affect the wives, girlfriends and daughters of the rich and powerful -- they never have. But it will be disastrous for everyone else.

They claim that their attitude toward abortion is Biblically based, but the Bible is silent on the subject. There is a passage in Exodus that states that if a man injures a woman and causes her to miscarry that he is subject to a fine for having injured her. The implication is clear: she is the injured party, and the fetus is not a separate person.

They've been working on this for years and have been very successful. In one bill working its way through, pregnant women may access government supported health care not for themselves through adult programs, but for their fetus through children's programs. There's a woman in Utah who recently delayed a C-section her doctors insisted she needed to save both her twins, and one died. Despite the fact that the woman has a right to physical autonomy and the right to refuse surgery, and despite the fact that apparently she also had a history of mental problems that may have had an impact on her ability to make decisions -- despite any considerations of what the woman might have been going through, she was placed under arrest for murder one day after she had abdominal surgery (i.e. the C-section). I have not heard anything further.

So, this latest bill passed by the Senate in its godlike wisdom is far from innocuous, and is not going to help women at all. "Unborn victims of violence" would be far better served if all cops were trained how to handle domestic violence, all men were taught non-violence, and if all women had access to shelter services, legal services, and medical services when they are in crisis.

Hekate

[tigereye]

48. that is what is so upsetting

the hypocrisy and cynicism of trying to make this look like something that is good for women! A damned if you do kind of conundrum. Let's hope that it is successfully challenged and kept at bay for a long time. I suspect that NARAL, NOW, etc. are working on a potential challenge as we speak.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

11. Maybe economic policies that harm women will be criminalized! hmm. n/t

[Just Me]

8. Ladies,...we are in danger!!!

This is serious shit. We are being cornered back into carrying too many burdens. I freakin' hate the Republicans, now. I never hated them before,...but, I seriously view them as an enemy of my freedom and my right to be guaranteed equal treatment.

[Vladimir]

33. They are indeed your enemy

fascist scum are the enemy of us all.

V

[a_random_joel]

10. So... when's the sperm rights bill coming?

[Old and In the Way]

26. We'll be next.

If you masturbate, you could be charged with crimes against humanity.

[Freddie Stubbs]

13. Daschle voted yes

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=102&topic_id=444706&mesg_id=444706

[flaminbats]

27. so when will Senate Democrats replace this backstabber with a leader?

:mad:

[Freddie Stubbs]

35. Most of the Senate Democratic Leadership voted for it

Democratic Leader Tom Daschle
Assistant Democratic Leader Harry Reid
Chief Deputy Whip John Breaux
Policy Committee Chairman Byron Dorgan

[flaminbats]

36. What kind of leaders turn their backs on the rank and file members?

When the party leadership breaks ranks, it sends a wrong message to the others.

These people are fine Democrats, but are they really the ones to set the standard for all members?

[Freddie Stubbs]

37. It the Democrats in the Senate don't like the leadership's actions

they are free to choose new leaders. So far, no attempt to do this has been intiated.

[Chicago Democrat]

15. How about worrying about Post-Birth people!!!

And leave the pregnancy between a woman and her physician.

This whole subject just pisses me off! Leave women alone! Misogynist Republican Wing nuts!

[Roaming]

21. I'm confused, haven't been following this too closely, but I read

the article--doesn't it just refer to women who WANT to keep their babies but have a third party do them/the baby harm? I mean, it doesn't mention anything about actually limiting abortion rights... just mentions fears that it COULD LEAD to more legislation. But in and of itself, it really doesn't change anything, does it?

[Kool Kitty]

24. Yes, actually it does.

This gives rights to the fetus. Now they (the anti-abortion folks) can say, well, if the fetus has rights (such as what was just passed), your choice puts it in jeopardy. So, no more choice. I phrased it rather simplistically, but I think you know what I mean.

[lazarus]

16. Here's the voting records, folks

Voting yes:

Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Breaux (D-LA)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Campbell (R-CO)
Carper (D-DE)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dayton (D-MN)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Fitzgerald (R-IL)
Frist (R-TN)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Miller (D-GA)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Nelson (D-NE)
Nickles (R-OK)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reid (D-NV)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Santorum (R-PA)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Talent (R-MO)
Thomas (R-WY)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)


Voting No:

Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Chafee (R-RI)
Clinton (D-NY)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dodd (D-CT)
Durbin (D-IL)
Edwards (D-NC)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Graham (D-FL)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hollings (D-SC)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Reed (D-RI)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Snowe (R-ME)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wyden (D-OR)

Not voting:

Gregg (R-NH)

[lazarus]

17. Also worrying

is that three of these names (Landrieu, Nelson, and Rockefeller) I've heard bandied about as VP candidates.

Can we at least put that idea to rest now?

[Systematic Chaos]

18. Well, for what it's (clearly not) worth

I wish to extend my thanks to the two Republicans who voted nay on the measure, even though I'm sure THEY knew it wouldn't change anything.

:eyes:

[NashVegas]

19. And They Want to Know Why the Rank & File

is so pissed off at DC Dems?

GMAFB

[theoceansnerves]

20. kerry

it's good to see kerry was there to vote no.
why am i not surprised to see breaux and daschle voted yes...

[Malva Zebrina]

40. Collins is a dumbass

this goes directly against her pro-abortion stance.

She is so dumb she makes Laura Bush look smart.

[leesa]

22. I hope it's a lesser offense like it says it should be in the bible.

Clearly, the bible finds the life of the woman more important that a fetus. Too bad Fundies don't read that book.

[Roaming]

45. There can be some debate whether the Bible really says it's a lesser

offense. The passage of scripture is from Exodus 21:22-25: "If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman's husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe." (NKJV)

Therefore, what it seems to be saying is that if a woman gives prematurely "without harm" -- that could reasonably be read as no harm to the baby -- the passage does not make the distinction. Maybe there is another verse I'm not finding, though.

[flaminbats]

23. What is a clean bill?...ruthless legislation must never be fixed

This seems to be the latest method of destroying attempts to amend flawed legislation in today's Congress. If the bill is partisan, divisive, and destructive by nature..doesn't it need to be cleaned up before it passes?

Those who seek more unfunded mandates onto states, more unenforceable legislation, and such a model turkey just to make a statement feel that improving such legislation would then make it UNCLEAN! But that passing legislation with little bipartisan agreement, or does nothing to help those really suffering from domestic abuse must be a puritan victory against violence and murder.

In summary..to be a clean bipartisan patriot in America...your legislation must do nothing stop victims of violence from being screwed-over by employers, even after they are battered by dickless idiots!

[nodehopper]

25. snowballing down the slope to hell

How soon do you think we will start seeing women hauled to jail on "reckless endangerment of the fetus" charges?

[drhilarius]

29. question

does the law only cover fetuses, or does it cover embryos as well? My question is when does it move from collection of cells to fetus?

[BiggJawn]

34. You say "Embryo", They say "Fetus"

I say "Tomato", they say "ToMAHto"...

I don't think there IS a legal definition.

[Malva Zebrina]

41. Yes there is distinct and indentifiable difference

For your edification:

em·bry·o (ĕm'brç-ô')
n., pl. -os.

An organism in its early stages of development, especially before it has reached a distinctively recognizable form.
An organism at any time before full development, birth, or hatching.

The fertilized egg of a vertebrate animal following cleavage.
In humans, the prefetal product of conception from implantation through the eighth week of development.
Botany. The minute, rudimentary plant contained within a seed or an archegonium.
A rudimentary or beginning stage: “To its founding fathers, the European Community was the embryo of the United States of Europe” (Economist).



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2003 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


fe·tus (fç'təs)
n., pl. -tus·es.
The unborn young of a viviparous vertebrate having a basic structural resemblance to the adult animal.
In humans, the unborn young from the end of the eighth week after conception to the moment of birth, as distinguished from the earlier embryo.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2003 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

[BiggJawn]

44. You know that, and I know that...

But do those former extreminators and used car salesmen in DC realize that?

I'm betting that when it comes down to it, "Life begins at CONCEPTION" will be the Law of the Land, Houghton-Mifflin be damned...

Dark times ahead...
"Hey, Sarge! never mind the kiddie-porn, this guy's got SETI AT HOME on his computer!"
"No Shit? Why, the Blasphemer!"

[Malva Zebrina]

49. I agree

very dark times ahead. :-{


Most especially for women.
Why do we have to keep on fighting this? Why has religion taken over this herding of women into a pen that the good old , white haired boys in cognress love to lord it over women.?

Damn, why cannot people realize how backwards and how repressive they are? Why are women so willing to go along with these white haired religious fruitcakes? Why do not these women have any minds of theri own?


And this includes women who are so enamored of their roles as the Mothers of life that have been ascribed to them, they even imagine their two celled blasotcyte has spoken to them and is capable of hearing them talk back to it. They simply may love to be placed on the pedestal that in reality, acutall does not respect them , but actually demeans them.

That is fine with me if they choose to think they are the godesses who bore the children of the males they are dependant upon, as long as they keep it as their personal belief, but now it seems it has gone beyond that.

It has come to the point where women are going to be prosecuted and criminalized because they do NOT believe that.

That is wrong.

[trapper914]

30. Now I Understand...

...why Faux News made Laci Peterson its focus for so long.

[absyntheNsugar]

50. Are Nader supporters still proud to vote for him?

eom