Flashpoints: Soldiers Who Attempted Suicides Sent Back to Iraq

[lostnfound]

On http://www.kpfa.org/cgi-bin/gen-mpegurl.m3u?server=209.81.10.18&port=80&mount=/data/20040326-Fri1700.mp3
">Flashpoints tonight (about 20 minutes into the broadcast), Nancy Lessin from Military Families Speak Out had this terrible story which speaks volumes about how much Bush supports the troops..how desparate they are to keep soldiers in Iraq:

"We now have soldiers being deployed who have Post-traumatic-stress-disorder. One family has a son diagnosed with post-traumatic-stress-disorder, was in a hospital in Germany. Command in Iraq called Germany to say 'well, we think we can treat them here on the front, and a good way to deal with post-traumatic-stress-disorder is to have this young man face his fears' so they shipped him from Germany back to Iraq after that diagnosis.

This is not an isolated case, not a unique case..another one of our families, their son had a suicide attempt and they shipped him off, a new deployment to iraq.
..
We need cannon fodder for the oil markets and empire building so we are gonna take anyone who breathes."

[Eye and Monkey]

1. Post-traumatic stress is not really about "facing fears".

Perhaps the US military has a few Patton look-alikes, ready to provide "slap'em around" therapy?

[minkyboodle]

25. just the image that came to my mind..

sad thing is lots of idiots in this country would think thats a great idea.
Scott

[UpInArms]

2. this is a travesty

and absolutely cruel and inhumane.

I am so sorry for these people and their families. PSTD should not be treated like falling off a horse - that may push them into a place of no return.

[madrchsod]

3. remember that alot of these

men and women are coming back with severe mental problems which may take time to really surface..i think this problem may be bigger than viet nam vets problems

[TreasonousBastard]

4. This is an unspeakable crime...

and yet Rumsfeld sleeps well at night.

[dbt]

11. Rumsfeld sleeps in a coffin full of his native earth.

[TreasonousBastard]

16. Good one.

[pippin]

5. unbearable cruelty

Talk about "man's inhumanity to man" the Bushites have it in spades. The bastards.

[justjones]

6. Not like we needed more proof they don't give a damned.....

About our troops. What's equally fucked up is they put all the troops in danger by deploying soldiers that have PTSD and/or are suicidal.....how can they watch the back of their comrades when at this point they aren't mentally stable themselves?

[Gemini Cat]

7. Whoa!

They want him to "face his fears"!? That's both cruel and unusual!

So when these soldiers come back from Iraq, what will they do for the rest of their lives? How will they cope?
Maybe drink themselves to death? Eventually kill themselves?
This is seriously bad, as well as stupid!!!

[Auntie Bush]

12. Or kill their wives or some other innocent person.

[prolesunited]

24. Guess what?

These heartless bastards don't give a damn. :nuke:

Not only are these people going to be a danger to themselves and their families, they also are a threat to the rest of us. Both McVeigh and Muhammad were vets of Poppy's war. McVeigh even talked about how that experience shaped (warped) his views of death and killing people.

Blowback is going to be a bitch on this one.

[Columbia]

8. Something does not sit right

I don't think the whole story is being told here. I'd like to see more information about these cases.

[Judi Lynn]

9. Thanks for the info. lostnfound.

I'm sure DU'ers who hear more about this will be communicating it to the rest of us, too.

Ordinarily, you'd think it sounds excessive, until you remember they are cutting the benefits of American Veterans, and reducing the levels of care for disabled veterans, as well as reducing the staffs in hospitals that serve them stateside.

Truly shameful, and low.

[Iraq_Vet_For_Peace]

10. its true

a guy in my unit had such a mental history he was not permitted to take lariam(anti-malaria pill) he had ptsd from various other deployments-somalia, desert storm,etc. they made sure he had enough zoloft to deploy. he was sent home after 4 months. as was another soldier who had severe ptsd all the way from vietnam. after one night of being shellled at our camp, he went off the deep end...

[newyawker99]

19. Hi Iraq_Vet_For_Peace!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Mari333]

26. (((((Vet for Peace))))))))))

Im so glad to see you here honey. Where were you stationed? My kid is over there now. You can PM me if you want to talk. I belong to military families speak out www.mfso.org
Im sure they would love to hear from you. If you have anything to say about your experiences.
The lady in charge of www.mfso.org is Nancy Lessin. Shes the mother of a young man also in Iraq now.
Its so good to see you on the boards.
(((hugs)))))
also please email them with your stories at [e-mail]
Nancy will get back to you. If you want to let people know whats going on, she can help you get the word out there.
Mari333

[Mandate My Ass]

13. Anybody who knows anything about PTSD

knows that if the sufferer is reminded of the trauma, or has to live through similar conditions that existed at the time of the trauma, or even sees anything resembling the initial trauma, it will cause an emotional meltdown that will endanger him/herself and anybody around him/her.

This is utterly inhumane.

[kskiska]

14. This is on top of reports that physically unfit guys are being sent

to Iraq. They're not even doing thorough examinations – just giving shots and shipping them out. One guy who died of a heart attack had been unaware he had heart problems.

[leesa]

15. They didn't even do this during WWII when the country really may have been

endangered. Are soldiers who are high suicide risks going to be trusted by their fellow soldiers? What possible good will it do to send these injured soldiers back?

[Mari333]

17. Right on Nancy!

Spoke with her on the phone..she knows..she has horror stories being told..this woman is working her ass off
www.mfso.org
Its bad folks, they are murdering our kids and the horror stories are growing daily.

[icymist]

18. I'd like to see Junior head back to Iraq with only his plastic turkey

for cover!

[The empressof all]

20. Not just cruel

This is not ethical psychiatric treatment and would be considered to be malpractice out side of the military. Does anyone know what best practice standards (if any) are in place for the psychiatric providers who are treating these folks? Do they have treatment protocols? Anyone know? How are these practitioners sleeping at night. They must be going out of their minds themselves with the thought of doing this

This is outrageous

[Judi Lynn]

21. Not NEARLY enough has been written on this.

Of course it's something which the administration is going to try to suppress at all costs, as it's immoral and can be recognized as wrong a mile away.

I'd like to see if they can actually produce some REAL authorities who'd back up their position. I don't think they could FIND one, sober, at least.

[Mari333]

22. It will be I gave this info to someone very high up in a major publication

and I can assure you this will be a story.
Believe me, Its on its way to being a story. I also spoke with a laywer tonight who wants our story and is working on a book...he's the same lawyer defending the kid in Florida who went awol and wont go to Iraq. I gave him the website www.calltoconscience.net
things are heating up, things are at the breaking point, the volcano of anger is exploding, they cant ignore the military families forever.
http://www.mfso.org

[undergroundpanther]

23. Hitler

Killed the mentally ill,disabled and dissidents in custody first before he even got to the Jews.

Every authoritarian I have ever studied about wages a war on the weakfirst..The authoritarian makes up what is'normal' and abnormal to suit his purposes, he seeks to silence the voices of willful hurting people,the ones who refuse,to dis empower the disenfranchised and make them fight among each other.Authority habitually scapegoats the different who do not live his way,while using the obedient as examples of uprightness. Authority hates the dissonant people who will not obey commands. Authority fears the genuine who will not go against their inner locus of control because he cannot hope to own them.Authority hates the virtuous who accuse bullies and make no excuses for them because they know the authorities game plan and dare to speak it out loud.Authority hates the stubbornly free who refuse to recognize acknowledge,or submit to power of the authority figure,the state apparatus and illusory system of power.


Power -over -others is a huge deeply ingrained social lie built upon the threat of deprivation,disrespect,degradation and abuse of human beings.. Power and authority only looks authentic or like a social reality because so many people are conditioned from birth to believe in it ,to play by authorities rules,and are taught that some people or corporations made for people are entitled to negate human consent..and make you say yes whether you want to or not..

Authority is the biggest scam against the human spirit ever pulled.

It is our sacred right as living beings to be able to refuse,resist,and say no-to ANYONE, to turn down any offer, reject any request,defy any threat,and reject any bribe,or refuse to participate in any situation or believe in beliefs that any person may set before us.The locus of control in all human beings lies inside the person them self ,it is manifested in the faculty of choice to say yes or to say no and resist domination..
This is what freedom really is. If you cannot resist an authority and say no you are not free.

As long as we live in flesh bodies and have emotions and personalities it is possible to be victimized by any cruelty or misfortune our flawed reality or humanity can devise.The tortures made by humanity to humanity will continue to happen until humanity chooses to stop giving away it's locus of control to others. Humans will go on victimizing it's own, standing by as others suffer,or excusing,rationalizing,allowing,or even honoring bullies who create victims with their entitlements and insecurities until we one by one as individuals decide never to be victimized again and MEAN it by not being put in a role of a victim or a victimizer.

Until more people learn how to negotiate and relate to others,as equals,and we learn how to become sovereign ourselves.Until we figure out how to stop rewarding authoritarians with our undeserved trust, with our power,our wealth ,our belief, our support and continue playing up to that illusion called power and social status nothing will change in our societies.It needs to change from within each of us,a decision has to be made and it needs to be stood by like it matters.No matter what the authorities do or say.It must be our own voluntary conviction to make changes happen from within our own hearts,regardless of what others think,say or do..

Humans need to get some heart and a new spirit. Sharing,love and having genuine empathy for others and for yourself both is where real power resides,and it requires no symbolic authority to have power.

Power is not really power when it's warped in these authoritarian social belief games, like bullying,war profiteering by an arrogant,charismatic, lying,manipulating symbol with no heart or connection to differences,that runs in terror or seeks to destroy the spirit of our sovereign freedom to say no.
False power needs guards P.R. and guns to defend it's fortifications.

All authorities are vulnerable and dependent upon humanity because they are in reality just mere humans like you and I are..all dressed up as authority figures,for pushing an agenda ~their own.
You can refuse to participate in any other's agenda or any power game the rest of the world plays as it kills itself.

You can choose to say NO,you can choose the moral high ground and defend the vulnerable from the powerful who know no end to their acquisitions of more for themselves and greed for obedience.

Any sort of changes for better or worse in human history have always begun with you.It comes from living in your own heart's convictions,making your choices and actions in this reality regardless of popular opinions or the red tape or fearsome threats and catcalls from the crowds. The truth of who you are is seen by the world in the fruits of your creations and relations.

[LiberalFighter]

27. What incident(s) are causing the post-traumatic-stress-disorder??

Is it the stress from fighting?
Is it from extended time without enough sleep?
Is it the thought that not all of the friendly Iraqi's are friendly?
Is it from killing innocents?
Is it from fighting a war they know is wrong?