US troops shoot three-year-old boy

[Minstrel Boy]

March 28, 2004

US forces fired on a civilian car in Tikrit, killing a three-year old boy and wounding six women and children as well as their male driver, Iraqi police and relatives have said.

Police said US soldiers based in Saddam Hussein's hometown, 175 km north of Baghdad, shot at the family's red car in the town last night.

"There was a family; four children, three women and their driver," an Iraqi police major said. "The US forces fired on them and all of them were injured. One child was killed."

...

"The Americans are criminals," his mother, May Qahtan, said from her hospital bed today. "Saddam is the only terrorist? The Americans are the ones killing all these people, all these children. Isn't that terrorism?"

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/28/1080331001795.html


:cry: :grr: :cry: :grr:

A slide showed Mr Bush in the Oval office, leaning to look under a piece of furniture. "Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be here somewhere," he told the audience, drawing applause.

Another slide showed him peering into another part of the office, "Nope, no weapons over there," he said, laughing. "Maybe under here," he said, as a third slide was shown.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1178547,00.html


:puke: :nuke: :puke: :nuke:

[DarkPhenyx]

1. We have soldiers on the ground in a place...

...where everyine can be the enemy, and every car might be a bomb. I'm not surprised at this.

[frylock]

2. it still doesn't make it any easier to stomach..

especially considering that these guys were ill trained for this shit.

[saigon68]

34. Just a thought --there are some rabid disruptors here

They support the troops and will immediately call you names if you criticize their "troops"

according to them, the troops are never wrong even if they kill children or beat up prisoners who have their hands and legs chained together.

[icymist]

4. This is worse than Vietnam.

Sit back everyone. I think this is going to be a very long war.

[saigon68]

35. Not Worse---The same as so far.

Wait until the Draft starts and blood starts flowing freely in the cities of Amerika.

[icymist]

39. I don't want to see another 'Ohio' happen.

I was really hoping we'd grow pass this shit by now. I guess we really haven't learned a thing from those days, huh?

[saigon68]

42. Neither do I want to see it again

I told everyone here a year ago this was a bad deal.. then about 50% of the people at DU thought it was a good thing. I only see a few die hards now, who support this whole useless cluster fuck.. They are hard core and a waste of time and effort to talk to. Some of them even support war crimes by the "troops"

They are like the hard core assholes who defended Rusty Calley, until the ship went down.

Yes, those who IGNORE History, are DOOMED to repeat IT. !!!!!

[icymist]

49. I pray we're wrong, but I fear we're not.

These kids don't know what it was like, but they're getting a real fast lesson.

[burrowowl]

68. I was amazed that at so-called progressive or liberal sites

how many people 'thought it was a good thing'.
Made me wonder about the analytical capability of so-called homo sapiens sapiens (what arrogance). Or is it just homo sapiens sapiens Americanus?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. When you attempt to turn troops that were never trained for peacekeeping

missions into police, this will indeed occur. MOre evidence that this war was poorly planned and improperly executed and all the more reason why we need international cooperation with trained peacekeepers in place.

[Ignis]

10. This is a great point.

It bears repeating (over and over and over...) that it is NOT disrespectful of US troops to criticise their utter lack of training for peacekeeping missions.

This is not to say that they cannot be trained for these, or that there are no police-trained US troops, of course; but the fact remains that the vast majority of US troops are horribly untrained and misdeployed in Iraq, and that this is a significant factor in the high number of Iraqi civilian deaths.

[DarkPhenyx]

32. What also bears repeating is that the French...

...have troops trained for exactly this kind of situation. It is the one and only job they have in the French Army, and we really could use that expertise right now.

[juajen]

58. Haven't seen any babies used as suicide bombers!

N/T

[DarkPhenyx]

67. Facicious statement.

There have been bombs disguised as babies however. Also as pregnant women. Also as Red Cresant vehicles.

[Flagg]

70. Not yet

[thebigidea]

3. Cap'n Patriot says: "Taste red hot Freedom, Iraqi scum!"

[Minstrel Boy]

8. Like the man said, "It's a different kinda war."

What better way to secure America's future than by pre-emptively killing tomorrow's potential terrorists today?

[KeepItReal]

5. Catch 22 roadblock/checkpoints strike again

The troops don't want to be obvious targets and RPG-bait in setting up clearly-marked checkpoint, so they have these low-profile checkpoints that civilians don't understand.

I saw one video of U.S. troops yelling "stop" at a car passing them by, right before opening fire on it because the driver misunderstood them.

There is a special place in Hades for people like Bush & Co. for sending our troops over there.

[Mari333]

7. Teenagers with guns. The heat is rising in Iraq. anger

low troop morale.
Folks, this is a nightmare.
My stepson said hes so hot its unbearable.
The volcano there is erupting.
For every dead civilian there will be hundreds of angry Iraqis.
Ill tell you this: George Bush has created with his PNAC friends, a brand new Al Queda, and I smell a Draft soon.
Better hunker down.
I can only pray at this point Michael comes home from this.
It will get worse.
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com

[Skittles]

17. the high in Iraq is 90 degrees right now

(I must disclose a perspective of living in TexaS). But July is looming - I feel so bad for the soldiers having to perform their duties in 120 degree plus heat. It's terrible.

[Mari333]

24. Hes wearing an 80 lb vest in 90 degree heat and a helmet.

thats damned hot. It will get worse.

[Skittles]

28. it's absolutely terrible

I wish we could help but there's not much one can do about the heat. Just make sure Micahel realizes how easy it is to be dehydrated and NOT KNOW IT.

[Mari333]

37. we sent him a cooling vest and a helmet cooler

a little temp change might be the diff between life and death imo
((((((((skittles))))))))
you have been so good to him.

[Skittles]

45. thanks; how about bandanas, does he have a good suppy of bandanas

several soldiers (and Texans) swear by them. :)

[Mari333]

48. Ill send him one on Monday

good idea..((skittles))

[Skittles]

send him a few

so he can use a new one while the other ones dry out. :O

We've got to think of other cool stuff to send him. I try to send something goofy in every package too, stuff that can momentarily take their minds off of the daily grind.

ooh - sweatbands too - the quality kind that exercisers use

[mac1000a]

9. Bush's Liberation

is the liberation of the soul from the body. Nothing more. Send the chimp to the Hague!

[seemslikeadream]

11. george bush God will take care of you

[Narf]

14. Interesting picture....however comma

My guess is that the little Iraqi boy did NOT draw a picture using neat, block ENGLISH lettering and pictures of people (women?) with Western features and Western dress. Also interesting that the soldier with the X over his picture is wearing a Green Beret and green cammies. U.S. forces in Iraq are all wearing desert cammies and helmets.

Just my two cents worth.

[Mari333]

16. Check out some of what we have done

and why people there hate us so much..and why our soldiers are losing their minds over there
I can only pray now that my kid doesnt lose his mind in Baghdad, or his life.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm
I dare you to look at that website.
WAKE UP PEOPLE THIS IS ANOTHER VIETNAM
TURN OFF YOUR TVS GET OFF YOUR COMFY COUCHES AND START WAKING UP
DO SOMETHING
DEMAND THIS WAR STOP
BRING THE TROOPS HOME
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com

[seemslikeadream]

19. Thanks Mari333

with Love

[seemslikeadream]

18. Interesting what you find

important in those photos. You say not a word about suffering children!

[Mari333]

21. amazing how people are in denial.

I go thru it every day. They dont want to look at what we have done, or are doing. They dont want to admit to themselves that our soldiers were sent for NOTHING and that we occupy and kill people for NOTHING.
and the corporate media whores dont care to show it.
http://www.mfso.org
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com

[Narf]

26. My point was that the injured child was being exploited by the media.

They found an injured child and posed him with the picture in an attempt to make it look even more pathetic.

[thebigidea]

22. yeah, forget the kids in pain and stuff - lets do some art criticism!

[DrWeird]

33. I want a refund on your two cents.

How can somebody look at those pictures and then complain about how that little boy may not have actually been the one who drew that picture.

Jesus fucking Christ.

[Narf]

36. How can anybody look at that picture and not see exploitation?

The picture was staged, posed, manipulated....and you are being manipulated too if you can't see what the media is doing.

[DrWeird]

41. When you assume you make an ass out of you

How do you know it was staged, posed, and manipulated? Those sure don't look like staged wounds to me. What makes you think anybody claims he drew the picture? Lot's of english speaking kids draw pictures and send them to Iraq as a part of the relief effort. I'd think hospitals would be the likely place for these pictures to go. What makes you think he was incapable of drawing the picture? Do you think nobody in Iraq speaks english? Do you think he could not have asked anybody how you spell "no war" in english? Do you think that Iraq was like the Afghanistan and western garb was forbidden?

[atreides1]

47. If That's All You Get

Then you have some real serious issues to deal with. The fact that you cannot see past the "manipulation by the media", is probably a sign of what is really important to you, and people who think like you.

The pain, death, destruction, none of this has any meaning, all that matters is how the "media" is using this to manipulate people.

How about when the media manipulated people like you into believing that the Iraqis were going to welcome us with open arms, with flowers, and hugs and kisses. Did you point out the manipulation then, probably not.

You're not worth wasting anymore time on.

[JohnyCanuck]

53. Maybe the media manipulated this one too

[saigon68]

62. Nice Foot Pretty Toe Nails !!!!!

Ya that's staged too </sarcasm>

[m-jean03]

66. jesus... .

I hadn't seen that one since last year.

:cry: I'm gonna take a break now. god help us all.

[daleo]

38. Iraq was quite varied in its customs of dress before the invasion

It doesn't surprise me that lots of the women would be dressed not very differently than western women. Also, saying people have 'western features' is almost an invitation to being accused of you-know-what. Suffice it to say, I have known many immigrants from the middle east (I am in Canada) and their features are not particularly different from the non-immigrants around them. As for the drawing that the maimed Iraqi boy had, it is quite likely he had help with the English lettering, although I am sure he is in agreement with the "No War" sentiment expressed in the picture.

[Narf]

40. I think MOST people are in agreement with the No War sentiment

I think the invasion/occupation of Iraq was the biggest mistake on a long list of mistakes this administration has made. I believe we should immediately and unconditionally withdraw every single American soldier, Sailor, airman, and Marine from Iraq...and Afghanistan...and Japan, Germany, Italy, and every other country where we have troops stationed. We have absolutely NO BUSINESS having military forces in other countries. Imagine the money we'd NOT spend if we got rid of all of our overseas bases, commitments, and entanglements?

[daleo]

46. I am glad you feel that way about Iraq

As to the presence of U.S. military in other parts of the world, I suppose I would have to think about them on a case by case basis. Some alliances are or were useful (for example, the NORAD pact between Canada and the U.S.). Some seem to be most definitely mistaken (for example Viet Nam and Iraq). Others, I am not entirely certain of (for example, NATO may once have been necessary, but may now not be).

Your statement about the photo of the Iraqi boy having some propaganda elements (the sign with English lettering) were provocative, so I may have misread your intent. I apologize, if that was the case.

[Narf]

60. No offense taken.

I believe our government needs to seriously reevaluate our commitments to foreign countries, especially defense aliances with countries that can defend themselves and for whom no real threat exists (NATO countries for instance, and Japan too.)

[democrank]

64. And my two cents....

The photos of the horribly injured Iraqi children are heartbreaking. The child`s artwork that has apparently caused some controversy here could very well have been sent to Iraq by an American schoolchild, as many kids from this area did.

The words written on that paper were perfect....NO WAR! Too bad more adults don`t think that way.

[0007]

72. You do have a point to be considered

[Narf]

12. Hearts and Minds...Hearts and Minds

I guess our campaign to "Make Friends and Influence People" isn't going as well as we've been told, eh?

[Just Me]

13. I'm sorry,...

,...:cry:

See ya' in heaven.

[Rex]

15. What the hell are the RoE in Iraq?

This is outrageous! I don't blame the troops, I blame the leadership! WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON OVER THERE! It sounds like NO ONE is doing drills or training exercises. This is completely unacceptable, the Brass needs to be sacked along with the senior NCOs (I know ya can't but something has to be done). They are FAILING our soldiers! GD this makes me sad.

[Narf]

27. ROE = Profit for Haliburton and Dubbya's campaign contributors

[havocmom]

30. there is a young man from my little rural community over there

doing police type duty among Iraqi civilians. He is a 20 year old trained as a mechanic. He is not a cop. Never trained for work as a peacekeeper in a urban civilian population. Hells bells, a large city in America is a foreign environment for this kid and the other guys in his unit are people he has no shared experiences with, no common frame of reference. He is a stranger in an unknown world. They took away his tool box, put a rifle in his hand, made him 'peacekeeper' in Baghdad!

His mother knows he will be a stranger to her when (if) he comes home. She fears what he may have to do to stay alive as much as she fears that he may not stay alive at all. She fears he will walk with shadows all his days.

He isn't a cop. Hasn't any experience/training/perspective. He must be terrified and likely to make mistakes which innocents, including himself, will have to pay for the rest of their lives. And bush* makes jokes about looking for WMDs.

The neocons have done damage to the world which will take decades, if not centuries to heal. They have assured eons of continuing blood feuds with Americans as targets. They are heinous beyond words.

[Mari333]

44. yes, I wrote about that on a thread this morning

these kids are 18, 19, 20, 21...no clue..never been out of them home towns. weekend warriors, hot, angry, scared, and sending them to Iraq is like sending them to Mars.
It going to get worse, as long as they are there.
Bush PNAC wars just created thousands of new Al Queda. Period.
and we are all suffering from it, and will suffer even more, and our children's futures will suffer and the country of Iraq will suffer.
Madmen created this war.
Madmen.
There will be a draft. get ready.
The troops thin...Bush wants more PNAC wars.
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com

[GregW]

31. IRAQ ROE: "If it moves, shoot it"

"If it's not moving, shoot it until it does"

[Columbia]

43. Can't tell from the information provided

If ROE was violated or not. Generally, if you think your life is immediately threatened you are authorized to shoot.

[saigon68]

63. I know a lot of Guys with PTSD because of the ROE like this

I also know a lot of guys who committed suicide, because of the bad dreams recurring nightmares etc.

[flamingpie2500]

20. No wonder morale is so low over there. Can you imagine being the

soldier who realized what he had done?

[Mari333]

23. You should hear what I hear from Nancy Lessin at mfso.org

they are coming home so f*cked up its beyond belief..really bad shape..and the bastards are sending them back.
assholes!
and it will get worse, if people dont start waking up.
http://www.mfso.org

[flamingpie2500]

25. Thanks for the link-

My 22 year old son has a friend coming home from Iraq in a couple of weeks. I've tried to tell him this guy will not be the same person as he was when he left. Well, at least he is coming home.

[Mari333]

29. thank god for that ...he could be sent back tho

they are sending them back in droves. He can fight it when he gets back. But the military is so desperate for bodies they dont care who they send.
Thats the truth.
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com

[saigon68]

71. PTSD which will remain untreated by an indifferent VA.

The VA is doing its best now, but when the disabled number in the thousands and the $$$funds dry up, then the Pakistani doctors who form the backbone of the VA will become indifferent.

[David Zephyr]

50. Iraq Is Now A Hopeless Situation Beyond Even the U.N.'s Help.

This is going to get a hell of a lot worse. There is no solution.

[Malva Zebrina]

51. I agree 100 percent

there is nothing here that can excuse anyone.

We cannot excuse the troops because we know not what they believe. Or we know what their ultimate goals are.

I know there are some here whose loved ones are involved and I do not want to make light of it--but the fact is that these troops are believing they are

"defending the freedoms of the US"

and that is absolutely wrong.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

It is sad we have to sacrifice our young to such propaganda and I feel sad they must die for this lie.


The solution is to NOT let your children become the pawns of any government. Because it is obvious that anything the US uses it's military for, is not for defense, but is for building empire and is for conquoring other nations. And that is the ONLY thing the military of the US can be used for in the future. NO ONE can threaten us here.
The only reason for the use of a military force is to establish an empire.
\
Do not let your children be a part of this.


It will be like that for as long as the US is the economic and the militarily dominant, alpha male, in the world

Do not let your children sign up for this conquoring and empire building. Do not let them be the pawns of evil and greedy men.

and it is also abosolutely wrong that we must continue to support them in that misguided mission.

[Mari333]

52. We must support the cause to bring them home now. period

http://www.bringthemhomenow.com
http://www.mfso.org
http://www.calltoconscience.net (this site says it all, Vets say dont go to Iraq if you are called up to go)
http://www.vaiw.org (veterans against Iraq war)

[Mari333]

54. some troops believe in the lies

many dont, including my stepson and some of the guys in his unit.
He tried to get out,I let him make his own choice.
He emailed me "get us out of this hellhole".
Im afraid everything I told him before he left, is now coming true for him.
Ill have a counselor ready for him IF he comes home, and he better come home..intact phsyically.
otherwise, my wrath now will become a firestorm and it wont be pretty.
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com

[Turbineguy]

59. I think there is a solution

but it cannot begin until after Bush looses the election. And then it will only be incredibly difficult and amazingly costly.

[boobooday]

55. Traumatizing everyone involved who lived through it, no doubt

Our soldiers, their civilians.

This is liberation and heroism? A bunch of scared American children shooting at scared Iraqi children?

George Bush, all this is on your hands, you disgusting warmonger.

http://www.wgoeshome.com

[Malva Zebrina]

61. scared American children over the age of eighteen

shooting at scared Iraqi children--aged three? Yup.

Someone needs to arrest George Bush and all his compatriots, including Rice and Powell and Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld, who instigated this atrocity with their lies.

That they will get away with this slaugther-- is a given, as far as I am concerned.

NO one will have the power or the nerve to bring these murderers to justice. They WILL get away with this -I am willing to take bets that nary a one of them will be faced with any justice concerning this murder of thousands-

and what do people tell their children?

How do we reconcile these lies and this murder with the values of honesty and integrity that we would teach our children? We do still teach our children these things, do we not?

If the president does not set the example, how on earth does he portend to set an example to our children and to future generations?

Actually he could care less--he got his.

The truth is that he could care less about the future generations of children that come from the lower classes. He is, after all, born and bread from the Bush/Walker higher class,so they think, but it is the crass class--the ones who never really made it into the high society. They are too crass and without manners--too cheap and too lacking in any societal confirmation.

They are the wannabees who are so intellectually stupid that they cannot really be accepted into the upper echelons of society--they never were and judging from the antics of the equally as stupid, Bush twins, the progeny of this George Bush, will never be considerd "high society" no matter how much they will try and pretend to be "intelligent" and no matter how much money they accumulate.\

They are "nouveau riche" lacking all it takes to be really a member of the rich and upper class. The dignified class.

George Bush is a pathetic liar, a cheat and a dishonorable, stupid, man who was not elected in the first place. He insists upon making it appear he had a mandate, when he has none. This is his method--it is a method of force and intimidation, bullying and bloviating lies.


And while we are at it, we should also make a concerted effort to bat down all references to his equally , lazy and stupid wife, Laura, as a great first lady.

She is more stupid than he and has done absolutely nothing for the past thirty years, including the recent three years spent in the White House being touted as the princess, the "national comforter" the "first Lady" when actually all she is doing is living high on the hog on our taxpayer money, while supporting her, dumb, murderous husband and going on exotic trips to Europe, dressed like a sloppy slut, saying she loves to "shop and eat" on these trips. Ugh

Get these people out of our house.

[Career Prole]

56. And the Army brass has the brass to claim they're puzzled

at the high suicide rate of our troops in Iraq.

[JNelson6563]

57. How to win friends and influence people

By: Team Bush

[Voltaire99]

65. The Empire removes another un-person: business as usual

Little dead boy, civilized America apologizes. It's all we can do.

Savage America--to whom you were always a bug on the windshield--isn't moved. In fact, it wonders if killing more of you might help lower gas prices.

[burrowowl]

69. The U$ has removed

a potential 'threat'.
Of course, the U$ doesn't realize that the threat is potential, because the U$ is the EMPIRE, the EVIL ONE.

[saigon68]

73. They should start holding the officers to The Yamashita Standard

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/justice/world_issues_yam.html


In the Supreme Court's decision, rendered in February 1946, the Court articulated a clear standard for military commanders with respect to the actions of their subordinates. In responding to General Yamashita's assertion that he did not personally participate in or order the commission of these offenses, the Court described the heart of the charge as being "an unlawful breach of duty by as an army commander to control the operations of members of his command by 'permitting them to commit' the extensive and widespread atrocities." The Court recognized that international law, through the law of war, "presupposes that are to be avoided through the control of the operations of war by commanders who to some extent are responsible for their subordinates."