Music fails to chime with Islamic values, says Iran's supreme leader

[IndianaGreen]

Source: The Guardian

Music fails to chime with Islamic values, says Iran's supreme leader

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei claims the promotion and teaching of the artform is not compatible with country's sacred regime

Saeed Kamali Dehghan
guardian.co.uk, Monday 2 August 2010 22.25 BST

Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said today that music is "not compatible" with the values of the Islamic republic, and should not be practised or taught in the country.

In some of the most extreme comments by a senior regime figure since the 1979 revolution, Khamenei said: "Although music is halal, promoting and teaching it is not compatible with the highest values of the sacred regime of the Islamic Republic."

Khamenei's comments came in response to a request for a ruling by a 21-year-old follower of his, who was thinking of starting music lessons, but wanted to know if they were acceptable according to Islam, the semi-official Fars news agency reported. "It's better that our dear youth spend their valuable time in learning science and essential and useful skills and fill their time with sport and healthy recreations instead of music," he said.

Unlike other clerics in Iran, whose religious rulings are practised by their own followers, Khamenei's views are interpreted as administrative orders for the whole country, which must be obeyed by the government. Last month Khamenei issued a controversial fatwa in which he likened his leadership to that of the Prophet Muhammad and obliged all Iranians to obey his orders.

Khamenei has rarely expressed his views on music publicly, but he is believed have played a key role in the crackdown on Iran's music scene following the revolution. When Khamenei was president, he banned western-style music, forcing many stars to go into exile.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/02/iran-supreme-leader-music-islam

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Getting to be more like the Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

1. My personal opinion is that the need for music ranks only behind procreation and food

Almost every culture in the world has music.

[Withywindle]

8. I think *all* of them do.

I know that's an absolutist statement, but I've never heard of any culture anywhere in the world, past or present, that didn't have some form of music.

There are some who never had the wheel, and some who never had boats, and some who never had war. But without music? Has it ever happened anywhere? I'd be interested to know if any anthropologist has pressing evidence of that.

[Chulanowa]

12. Below food, but equal to procreation

Which is why so many people in so many cultures take them together, after a meal :)

[saltpoint]

2. Regressive authoritarian pricks.

"...learning science..."

There's a place where science and the arts meet in the great realm of space, or in the miraculous small moment in a laboratory or school room.

[saigon68]

43. Quick----- lets draw some Cartoons

[msongs]

3. he seems to be aiming to overthrow mohammad and start yet another new version of islam nt

[Chulanowa]

4. Actually it sounds more like the United States

"It's better that our dear youth spend their valuable time in learning science and essential and useful skills and fill their time with sport and healthy recreations instead of music," he said.

We basically slaughtered music and the arts in our schools, while inflating math and science to "Keep up with the commies." School sports, of course, remained well-funded.

His value judgments are just pig-ignorant; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w3KHtFnbOI
Azam Ali is an Iranian performer; I dare anyone to tell me this music is of no value!

[Lucky Luciano]

5. Math and science are definitely the most important subjects.

Writing well is critical too.

[Chulanowa]

11. Reading and writing are the most important skills a person can learn

Math and science are valuable, but not at the expense of cultural learning; And certainly not at the expense of history and civics (another victim of the Math / Science / Football holy trinity)

[Lucky Luciano]

18. One cannot do math and science without reading and writing.

Therefore, the importance of reading and writing was implicit in my statement.


I love history too though.

[breadandwine]

16. Iranians need math and science. They can't make A-bombs without them.

....

[DBoon]

22. the source of science is in music

some of the most talented scientific minds were well taught musicians

[Withywindle]

24. Music is closely akin to mathematics and language

Ever spend any time learning to read musical notation as a child? (Hint: it's a language!) Ever learned to count out rhythm and apply it to playing an instrument? (Hint: it's mathematical!)


Music is definitely way more useful as a gateway to math and science and languages than sports are.

[Evasporque]

36. music makes us human....without the creative aspect of music

we would be simple idiot robots doing math.

Khomeniei is so far down his Islamic spider hole he can't see the light of humanity.

[Lucky Luciano]

37. I never said music is useless.

Math us not robotic. It is the deepest thought process in the universe.

[rocktivity]

47. How can you look at this video and say music is unnatural and dancing is a sin?

She's SINNING? She's on God's shit list already? Or is she doing what came to her as naturally as sucking her thumbs or standing up by herself?

:headbang:
rocktivity

[Withywindle]

6. One of my favorite musicians *of all time* is Iranian

Kayhan Kalhor:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0_RDxXZqKQ

(he's playing the kamancheh, the stringed instrument that sounds kind of like a viola or cello)

Interview with him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH-NHAl_xao

Here he is taking a solo on the 'Masters of Persian Music' tour this spring:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9cvb42Hm3Q

This was filmed in Boston- I saw this group play in Chicago. They played at the Chicago Symphony Orchestra's hall, as prestigious as venues get in this town, and got standing O's out the yin-yang.

Is this not some of the most beautiful music in the world?

How else can any God be glorified, other than by beauty and joy? Wouldn't a loving God want us to walk in his/her footsteps and do our best to create beauty in our own way?

[Chulanowa]

13. Glad to have another wonderful Iranian artist in my list; thanks! n/t

[Withywindle]

21. Always glad to spread the word!

Here are a couple more videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbhypcyrprE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMYdE_qghv8&feature=related


This is a very, very old and venerable tradition they're playing in...and that's part of the problem as far as I know. It's definitely the "classical music" of its region and supported by the elite at one point, long long ago--and now it's being threatened by more fundamentalist strains of Islam, in part due to its association with Sufism (it's not uncommon to have singers performing poems by Mevlana Rumi and Hafiz with this kind of accompaniment)--a faith tradition that is so eloquent, profound, and inviting to outsiders that of course demagogues would find it a threat.

Here's a good English-language linksource on Persian arts and culture in general:

http://www.duke.edu/~azomorod/persian2.html

I know Islam is very strict on the possibility that art can lead to idolatry, but the idea that music of all kinds is forbidden, well, AFAIK that has nothing to do with the Qur'an and everything to do with the Wahhabism. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi) Which used to be a fringe cult within Islam that has recently ("recently" being within the last century) acquired some global power, much like the Rapture/Predestination/Dominionist heresies of Christianity, which were small cults just a century ago, but have very quickly acquired lots of power and money, because their ideology is so conducive to justifying oppressive regimes.

[Vinnie From Indy]

7. Maybe there is an Iranian Kevin Bacon

Oh Milo! Come on, Come on let's go!

[U4ikLefty]

20. So the Supreme Leader can be the Iranian John Lithgow?

I see a YouTube parody on the horizon.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

9. And the people

Will do nothing to overthrow their government. They just accept this nonsense.

[Posteritatis]

14. Because it's just that easy to, right? (nt)

[Ter]

31. The Founding Fathers did it

If 99% of them stand up, it is that easy.

[Posteritatis]

42. If you think the American Revolution was easy you need to read a book or two

If you think an uprising in the sense of the American Revolution is at all applicable twenty-three decades later, you need to read a few more books.

If you think 99% of a population has ever done anything, you need to read a great many books.

[Chulanowa]

15. The Persians are a very patient people.

And unlike some Americans, they're not itching to see Iranian blood in the streets.

[Kurska]

17. The centre cannot hold, the government is completely out of tune with the majority of the youth.

I don't claim to know the future though, I too don't wish for bloodshed.

[Xithras]

44. I don't know about that.

I work with a couple of Assyrian Iranians, including one who just emigrated here about 10 years ago, and they tell me that there's a massive rual/urban cultural divide even among the youth. Rural Iranian under-30's tend to be just as traditional and religious as older Iranians, and the push for revolution seems to be coming almost exclusively from the urban under-30's.

Iran won't liberalize without war, and the liberalizers are outnumbered. I think the conservative government is going to be around for a LONG time.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

19. Iraq

I remember when my unit landed in Nasiriyah Iraq back in 2003. Not just a few men approached us to thank us for rescuing them from Sadam. I remember clearly, one man said that "we have been waiting and praying for you to come save us". In my mind I thought, why couldn't you guys do it yourself? I don't agree with the Iraq war, but if we had not invaded, Sadams kids would have taken control and Iraq would be under an authoritarian for another 30 years.

These people continue to elect these hardliners. Its been going on for the past 30 days and I don't see that changing in my lifetime. I keep hearing about the kids not being happy with the regime, but like always, these kids will grow in to the relgious conservatives that thier parents already are. The people in the middle east are bent on living in a cycle of misery. The faster we learn that we can't help them and get out, the better.

[Recursion]

25. "These people continue to elect these hardliners"

Except when they vote for the other guy, and the revolutionary council just makes up vote totals that give their guy the victory.

[Chulanowa]

29. Really, you wondered that?

Maybe it's because last time they tried - having been promised US aid, Saddam fucking wiped the floor with them because they got none of the promised aid. Then Saddam made damn sure to keep them on a tight leash. Paired with the sanctions geared explicit to keeping the people unhealthy and impoverished, their ability to revolt was a little fucking limited.

And the people of Iran do not elect their Supreme Leader. They elect the 86 people who then elect the Supreme leader, but as you can no doubt guess by our own government's problems, what you vote for might not be what you get.

"The people of the middle east are bent on living a cycle of misery"

Fuck you.

[Withywindle]

26. It's already happened, though.

Hello, Neda? Who was a figurehead, sure, but a very real figurehead--an attractive young woman gunned down in the streets, while the whole world mourned on YouTube. She stands in for Allah-knows-how-many resistance fighters who have "disappeared" over the years.

Persians are patient, I grant you, but there's a certain point where patience gets pushed past the limit. It will happen soon, I think--I just don't want fucking US neocons interfering in the process.

[Xipe Totec]

10. O'rly?

Kalam-e-Iqbal (مسجد قرطبہ) - Ghulam Ali

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=7_Uv9xQ8-hU

Al-Andalus : Alhambra Palace

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=zxMi5gh7wrc

[earcandle]

23. Music is reguired hearing. It is one of the most powerful mediums for change and socialization.

[Aristus]

27. Do you want to help the cause of secular music in Iran? Do this:

Go to iTunes and download "Bloom" by an Iranian musician named Mehdi Karimi. He is a personal friend of mine. He published "Bloom" last year, and it was the first English-language album of popular music by an Iranian musician ever released in Iran itself.

Mehdi's music is very accessible, and mostly inspired by Ireland's Chris De Burgh, who is also very popular with young Iranians. Mehdi is a wonderful, sweet guy, and a great friend. I haven't heard from him in a few days, and I'm wondering how this new ruling will affect him.

For ten bucks, you can give a boost to an entertaining musician, and, just maybe, bring Iran closer to being a more open society. Mehdi, and all the young, progressive people of Iran deserve it...

[MilesColtrane]

28. Not surprising.

He's probably seen "Footloose".

[David__77]

30. I did not know that Khamenei was president.

Originally, the line was to be clear between clergy and presidency, interestingly. That apparently only lasted 2 years.

So, he is saying that music is legal but not be encouraged. Such a shame. Iran cannot progress under such strictures. Science alone cannot serve Iran's development and maintain critical bridges to the world. I hope the more enlightened forces, including supporters of the Islamic republic, will see this.

[DonCoquixote]

32. Tragic

To think, that REAL Muslims not only were noted for Music, they actually used it in combat. They invented the Guitar, and used Drums to frighten enemies. The Islam these folks practice is as Halal as a ham Sandwich.

[Blandocyte]

33. I wrote a song about this

I hope to have it recorded by Koran Carpenter.

[Javaman]

34. I guess someone stole his collection of "Grand Funk Railroad". nt

[Evasporque]

35. and the call to prayer is what...??

MUSIC!

[notadmblnd]

38. Don't they sing to call their followers to prayer?

How's that going to work for them?

[skypilot]

39. Sometimes it's better not to ask.

Khamenei's comments came in response to a request for a ruling by a 21-year-old follower of his, who was thinking of starting music lessons, but wanted to know if they were acceptable according to Islam...


This reminds me of something I read a few years back about Mohammed talking about the disservice that one Muslim can do to another. I don't remember the quote exactly but it was something like:

When a Muslim asks about a non-prohibited thing in such a way that that thing BECOMES prohibited he adds to the burden of his fellow Muslim.

I don't know exactly what the young man asked Khamenei or how he asked it but that part of the article made me think of that statement by Mohammed.

[hatrack]

40. If so, then fuck him. Fuck these clowns. Fucking humorless narrow stupid petty controlling pricks.

That is all.

[saigon68]

45. `

[alfredo]

41. Iranian music is incredible. They are starting to act like

the Taliban. They also banned music.


Getting down with a bit of Persian music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df6x9AgAW-Y&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CY0TltMS2o&feature=related

Watch her beautiful long fingers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxZNiLf27qY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSuyYPmEjjA&NR=1

Kill the music, kill the culture.

[mainer]

46. So music's OK, but no teaching it or performing it?

Is he going to arrest mothers for singing lullabies? Children for singing nursery rhymes? Time to start shooting birds for singing, too.

[rocktivity]

48. So what happens now--"All your iPods are belong to us?"

Will homes be searched, or will turning in iPods and CD players at school be enough? Will computer hard drives have to be deleted of MP3s? Will iTunes and YouTube be blocked if they aren't already?Will people have to hide their headphones and earplugs? And with Western music still banned, I guess there's one particular star who is going to have to stay in exile a little longer...

:(
rocktivity

[dipsydoodle]

49. Well I didn't exactly have them down as being

Bob Marley fans.

Weirdos.