Mosque Near Ground Zero Clears Key Hurdle

[oberliner]

Source: NY Times

After a protracted battle that set off a national debate over the freedom of religion, a Muslim center and mosque to be built two blocks from ground zero surmounted a final hurdle on Tuesday.

The city’s Landmarks Preservation Commission voted 9-0 against granting historic protection to the building at 45-47 Park Place in Lower Manhattan, where the $100 million center would be built.

That decision clears the way for the construction of Park51, a tower of as many as 15 stories that will house a mosque, a 500-seat auditorium, and a pool. Its leaders say it will be modeled on the Y.M.C.A. and Jewish Community Center in Manhattan.

The vote on Tuesday was free of much of the vitriol that had marked previous hearings. One by one, members of the commission debated the aesthetic significance of the building, designed in the Italian Renaissance Palazzo style by an unknown architect.

Read more: http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/03/mosque-near-ground-zero-clears-key-hurdle/

[Turborama]

1. Happily sending this to the Greatest. n/t

[Sheepshank]

2. now it's a mosque?

I thought it was a community center with a prayer room as very small percentage of the entire floor space.

[Whoa_Nelly]

7. A mosque does not always mean there is a minaret

just as a church does not always have a steeple.

In simple terms, it means a place of worship.

[Sheepshank]

10. Hospitals have a chapel

but I don't consider them a church.

Many churches have a rec room...but I don't consider them a sporting facility.

I think there is attention drawn where the news will make the biggest negative impact.

[uppityperson]

15. "there is attention drawn where the news will make the biggest negative impact"

Indeed.

[sasquuatch55]

24. You got that right!

nt

[Tempest]

8. The mosque has always been a part of the plan

But it's the only part getting all the attention.

[Igel]

52. Yes.

Granted, it's not just a mosque.

But now that it's approved there's no point in making the difference without a distinction that it's only a prayer room because the word "mosque" in Arabic according to shariah has requirements that the prayer room won't meet. Who knew that "mosque" was an Arabic word? And who knew that English was subject to shari'ah? Nobody, it seems, in spite of all the blather, because it's not an Arabic word and shari'ah is meaningless for English usage. It's just now that it's approved there's no point in defending it for the sake of being pure and noble.

[deathrind]

3. Time...

to put up or shut up America. We are either what we were founded on or we are not. It is not line item issue.

[Deep13]

19. Agreed. Either we have freedom of religion or we don't.

The state cannot pick and choose which ones it will allow.

[AlbertCat]

22. We are either what we were founded on

Oh please!

We were founded with SLAVERY intact!

How 'bout those "faith based initiatives"? The the tax free status of religions(and cults.... Scientology:eyes:)?

We've already proven what we think of "what we were founded on".

[Deep13]

27. True, unfortunately. nt

[naaman fletcher]

32. Yes, but,

They have the freedom to build the mosque, but we still have the right to have the opinion that they are being provocative a**holes in doing this.

[frylock]

39. yes, YOU are entitled to that opinion..

however misguided it may be.

[sabrina 1]

43. Why is it provative for one religion but not for another?

Are any of the people involved in this guilty of killing anyone on 9/11 or is this just 'guilt by association'?

Many Muslims died on 9/11 also. Of course you'd never know it from our hysterical and propagandistic media.

I see nothing provocative about this, any more than the building of Mega Christian Churches who preach hatred for Gays and women and Muslims eg.

I'm glad someone kept their heads and did not react to the Glen Beck contingency and violate the Constitutional rights afforded to ALL Americans, not just to those selected by the Religious Right and their Fox enablers.

[naaman fletcher]

50. Did I say that it was?

I don't recall saying it was provacative for one religion and not another.

[closeupready]

48. You are entitled to believe whatever you want. I do not share your views.

n/t

[naaman fletcher]

49. You believe

that they just randomly picked this location?

[closeupready]

53. Probably not, but there are tons of muslims in New York.

Many of them drive cabs, some work at delis, in restaurants, some have just regular jobs. I don't know how big this mosque is going to be, but as far as I know, it would appear to be a location well-placed to meet the needs of muslims in the downtown area. The significance of the location's proximity to the WTC site will almost certainly not be lost on those who run the mosque and institute, and I suspect extremists will not be welcome there, and nothing I have seen from any source leads me to believe that extremists and extremist ideology WILL be welcome there - it will just be a mosque near the site of 9/11. So what? :shrug:

[dmallind]

4. Even the news about this is hypocritical

I know mediaoutlets react to interest, but they also create it. Would there be (has there been) any controversy over a church opening two blocks from the Murragh building?

[qb]

5. ...drawing opposition from former Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska and members of the Tea Party

'nuff said

[Tempest]

9. Reason enough to support it

The center has the support of New Yorkers. They don't give a crap about Caribou Barbie and her mindless drones.

[Mz Pip]

12. I doubt Palin and the Teabaggers

give a shit about the people who live in NYC either. 9/11 has always been more about scoring political points than about the people of NYC. The city went 85% for Kerry in 2004 and problaby more for Obama in 2008.

All of this yammering about a mosque at ground zero is about riling up the base in Alabama and Georgia and Texas and mayby a swing state or two. They know damn well the people of NYC won't support them but they have no qualms about using the supposed feeling of New Yorkers to score cheap political points.

[saigon68]

13. She's an astronaut

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

23. !

!

[Jefferson23]

33. ROFL, I haven't seen this one before...very good! n/t

[pnorman]

47. I think I can put that image to good use.

Thanks!

[Deep13]

20. Who don't live in NYC.

That's like a New Yorker bitching about a new Walmart in Wassila.

[sinkingfeeling]

6. Excellent!

[NBachers]

11. Good

[SOS]

14. Lifelong NYer checking in

The Mayor supports it.
City Council President supports it.
Landmarks clears the way.

And Palin? People here don't care what she says.
Manhattan went 85-15 against McCain Palin in 2008.

She says we are outside "the real America" and we are supposed to give a damn what she says?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

[activa8tr]

16. Sent that last sentence as a Tweet to Palin... she probably never even

read the Constitution.

Don't tell her where it's from, let her guess.

[Xenotime]

17. Wonderful!! I hope this will bring peace to this issue.

[Deep13]

21. What do you mean?

:shrug:

[dipsydoodle]

18. BBC News link

Attempt to block 'Ground Zero mosque' fails http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10856231

I'm guessing this is a Mosque in the same context as other places having Chapels. Its just that in this instance the empahasis has been placed on Mosque as opposed to other facilities within the complex.

[AlbertCat]

25. I'm guessing this is a Mosque in the same context as other places having Chapels.

Indeed.

1st... it's not just "a Mosque"
2nd... it's not at Ground Zero

[dipsydoodle]

28. That was my point

that fact the building houses a Mosque is incidental. I'm also aware it is not on the site of The Pile.

[AlbertCat]

36. That was my point

I know! That's why I was emphasizing it.

The very headlines are misleading. You don't even need to get into the articles about it.

[dipsydoodle]

42. Oops

I misinterpreted - sorry.

:hi:

[Turborama]

26. HEADS UP Live Faux news chat about the "Ground Zero Mosque", no need to log in.

Not sure if the moderators will let us get the facts out about the community center with a prayer room, but it could be a good opportunity to re-educate the freepers...

Topic: What do you think of the Ground Zero Mosque project?
http://www.foxnews.com/community/liveevent/

Update: still waiting for mine to appear but some supportive comments are getting through.

A few examples...

1:39
Comment From TrueAmerican
Mosque should be good and it should work well for all the law abiding Muslim-Americans working in Manhattan

1:39
Comment From cfb
You DO know that there's a Muslim Center already within walking distance of the WTC site, right? All this is is a Community Center

1:40
Comment From Mr. Carpainter
You guys are acting like it's being built ON ground zero. It isn't. It's like one or two blocks away.

[Old Vet]

29. As a New Yorker.....................

It just doesn't seem appropriate, Iam of the opinion ground zero is a national monument.

[Turborama]

31. How do you define "Ground Zero"? n/t

[orbitalman]

37. As a non-New Yorker, even so, I have to wonder what the difference is....

between 1 block, 2 blocks, 6 blocks, miles, out of state, or anywhere in the U.S. that surrounds surrounds 9/11. Is it some matter of degree? Clearly, to me, this was always a bogus argument. As a non-religious person, I still respect the rights of those who are religious to worship as they see fit. The :eyes: have it.

[frylock]

40. last i checked..

it was still a hole in the ground, some nine fucking years later.

[NYC Liberal]

51. First, the World Trade Center (not "Ground Zero") is not a "national monument."

8 years later it is still a hole in the ground and eventually an office building will stand there (again). A memorial is appropriate. The entire area is not one giant monument, nor is the entire city. Fuck that.

Second, the WTC was not located at 45 Park Place, where the community center will be built.

Third, it is entirely appropriate. The terrorists were the close-minded bigots who wanted a world in which differing religions and opinions were shut down and banned. Those who are against this are of the same mindset as the people who hijacked those planes.

[CLANG]

30. Thank you, NYC Landmarks Preservation Commission.

This whole thing makes me sick to my stomach. Here we have a ripe opportunity to show the world that we are not on a crusade against Islam and the fascists have to start with their 9-11/Hannity/Limbaugh induced hysteria. These people are un-American and should be deported to Somalia where they belong. See how their tough guy stance works there.

I hope Mayor Bloomberg is part of the opening ceremonies and welcomes them to the community. Hopefully heads will be exploding around the nation. He's also Jewish, which would also help foster some healing.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

34. This deserves headline on DU front page?

:eyes:

[Spazito]

35. Considering the issue has been BIG news for some time...

and the rabid right have been making sure it stays BIG news, why should it not deserve to be on DU's front page?

[eowyn_of_rohan]

38. Not tops on my list.

another race bait topic

...and because the RW is rabid about it, we have to be?

and besides, I really do not trust the group that wants to build this thing on that site. You dont have to be RW to not love this plan. There are many other reasons to not like it.

[frylock]

41. and you've provided all those reasons, laid out quite logically..

oh wait, you didn't. what is it about the group that you find to be untrustworthy?

[eowyn_of_rohan]

45. i dont trust their business connections primarily

and motivations secondarily. I am sorry, but I don't have time or energy to expand beyond that or compose long posts today. We are hosting a funeral tomorrow.

[Chulanowa]

44. It's front page because this is civil rights in action.

And a defeat for those who would strip those rights from people they dislike.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

46. you have a right to your opinion