Police say gunman among dead in Conn. shooting

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

TUESDAY Aug 03, 2010 11:10 ET
Police say gunman among dead in Conn. shooting
By STEPHEN SINGER, Associated Press

A warehouse driver who was asked to resign his job at a beer distributor refused, then opened fire Tuesday morning, a company executive said. Police said the gunman and several other people were killed and others were wounded, one critically.

Authorities were searching the building to make sure everyone was accounted for before confirming the number of deaths, state police Lt. J. Paul Vance said.

At least one person died at Hartford Hospital, spokeswoman Michaela Donnelly said. Another victim taken there was in critical condition, and one was in fair condition, she said.

About 50 to 70 people were in the warehouse because it was a shift change, said Brett Hollander, the director of marketing at Hartford Distributors. Adding to the chaos was a fire at the warehouse, about 10 miles east of Hartford, that has been put out.

Read more: http://www.salon.com/wires/us/2010/08/03/D9HC32GG0_us_beer_distributor_shootings/index.html

[superconnected]

1. Thank God that man had a gun!

Wish we could get his name so we could look up his internet posts supporting guns!

[Lightning Count]

6. From most reports he used a rifle.

Do you propose banning those?

[maxsolomon]

7. the poster should have said "firearm"

then you wouldn't nitpick.

here's what you get when everyone has a gun to defend themselves: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jy-8g_xQ8cQC0XIaOxyV-jkV4FUAD9H1NBC80

[Lightning Count]

8. Illegal guns held by untrained gang members?

Not sure that's a great example. Switzerland is probably a better one.

[maxsolomon]

9. the reality of gun posession in america is quite different than the ideal

of a trained, disciplined, 'well-regulated' citizen militia.

the lake sammamish shooting is a perfect example of what happens IN AMERICA, where masses of illegal guns are in the hands of untrained idiots with no self-control, just like this most recent homicidal suicide. and frankly, it's too late to correct the situation - the cat's out of the bag. shit like that - where you go to a beautiful park on a beautiful day (and really, it's about the nicest place you could picnic with a family in Seattle) among an ethnically diverse crowd all intent on having fun, and a gunfight breaks out due to surplus testosterone, is why urbanites don't appreciate guns like hunters or 2nd amendment absolutists do. suicidal crazies and drunk gang members are not irrational fears. they exist.

take a look around - this ain't Switzerland. there ain't no cuckoo clocks, and Hershey's chocolate sucks. if you have some idea how we could become Switzerland, i'm all ears.

[Lightning Count]

10. So the solution to the problem is?

Ban hunting rifles? By your own admission the problem with Seattle was illegal guns.

Also, I take issue with this. "among an ethnically diverse crowd all intent on having fun". How do you know they were all intent on having fun and some were not intent on causing mayhem?

[maxsolomon]

13. i'm referring to the folks who were not "gang members".

minus the guns, in a place like england, it would probably have been a fistfight. or a stabbing/bludgeoning, i guess. but not suburban moms hiding with kids in park bathrooms to avoid the crossfire. that's "uniquely american", as president narcissist used to say. firearms take situations from zero to crazy in a flash.

i already stated that i believe this is an unsolvable problem - too many guns, legal or illegal, in too many unstable hands. to quote steve earle, "it's WAY too late for gun control in america". i have no clue what to do that won't increase the NRA-fueled hysteria of well-regulated militia members, or actually violate the ill-defined 2nd amendment. i'd love to see the SCOTUS re-visit "well-regulated militia", but i recognize that it's been defined down to meaninglessness already, and the Roberts court wouldn't impose a stricter definition if their mother's soul depended on it.

you appear to be the 2nd amendment absolutist in this thread - you offer a solution that would make america into your ideal of switzerland. you can start with the problem of suicidal mass shooters (who often use legal firearms) if that's easier. remember, don't violate the rest of the constitution!

[Lightning Count]

14. You are confusing illegal guns with legal guns still.

You seems to state shootings like these are a cultural thing. Then the culture must be changed. Do you have suggestions?

[maxsolomon]

24. 'the culture must be changed'?

i'm not confusing jack shit. shootings like these - young men shooting each other over wounded pride, or a suicidal crazy who wants to make others suffer, with legal or illegal guns, ARE AMERICAN CULTURAL PHENOMENA. you think they aren't? don't they happen in America? don't we just shrug and accept it, then repeat that behavior at the next killing? that is what 'culture' is - behaviors we accept without questioning.

you keep asking me for solutions, so you can nitpick them. like you did to the other poster over rifles not being a subset of guns. 2nd amendment absolutists love your tactic - ask the person decrying gun violence to propose a solution, then shoot it down because it can't meet the archaic and hazy language of the 2nd. no gun control proposal can, especially when the SCOTUS says a militia is any male over 18 (what about the ladies? can't they be in the militia?).

i already said clearly: i don't believe there is a solution. this is what we have collectively decided is an acceptable cost for the "protection" the 2nd amendment provides us. THAT is certainly 'cultural'. a certain percentage of americans will be killed by coworkers every year, and you just hope that you're not one of them. i am NOT a gun control advocate. i am a gun control CYNIC. my goal is simply to stay away from people carrying guns period, and especially crazy people carrying guns. tough to do when you have a black president and all the old white men are pissing their pants with fear and paranoia.

gun control advocates come up with new ideas that don't pass muster all the time. let's put illegal guns aside. i just want to hear one 2nd amendment absolutist propose a solution to stop the mass homicides committed with legally acquired firearms. it would be about time.

[Lightning Count]

30. Let's break it down.

So there are no shootings in places like Mexico? Is that American culture as well?

I'm still confused. Do you want to ban all guns including rifles, shotguns, etc?

If there is no solution than the logical thing to do is not worry about it.

Solution is mandatory psychological evaluation of all citizens yearly. It is a solution, though far from one I would want.

[maxsolomon]

31. thank you for your solution.

"mandatory psychological evaluation of all citizens yearly". noted.

i never said i wanted to ban anything. i want to hunt, and i want crazy fucks to stop shooting people before they shoot themselves. these shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

i know there's the horrific narco-violence now, but mexico does not have AS MANY suicide shootings as america, does it? they may have some, i don't know. i certainly have never heard of anything comparable to Columbine, VTech, the 1984 McDonalds shooting in San Ysidro, etc., ad nauseum.

[hack89]

37. Mexico has a murder rate 3 times that of the US

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[slackmaster]

38. Mexico has about 1/3 the suicide rate of the USA, while that of safe, gun-free Japan is more than 2x

http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide/suiciderates/en/

[hack89]

41. Why don't we change the drug culture through legalization?

don't you think that drug violence skews murders statistics in America? A huge percentage of inner city violence is linked to drugs and drug gangs - gun laws will never solve that problem so lets legalize instead.

[rbrnmw]

42. My at the time 3 year old child and I missed being shot by a drive by shooter

mere inches granted I was in a poor neighborhood but it was 10 am and no reason to fear violence on that street, I had been there six months and had never seen any craziness until that morning

[superconnected]

19. +1000

[Arctic Dave]

47. Switzerland wouldn't be a very good example either.

They have an extremely regulated procedure for "ownership". It not like everyone can have a full military grade weapon at their leisure, it is quite a bit more to it then what most people believe. If they even get to have a carry permit, they are handed out sparingly.

[slackmaster]

11. The incident in Washington was a GANG FIGHT, and none of those guns were legally carried

:argh:

[maxsolomon]

25. at its simplest,

a gun came out, other guns were drawn to protect their bearers from the threat, gunfire ensued. this is precisely the nightmare scenario concealed carry advocates carry for, is it not?

if an upstanding citizen, or 1 of the "gang" members, had a legal gun and had proper gun safety training, would a mom and kid hiding in a park bathroom be in less danger?

[slackmaster]

32. You have some serious misconceptions about concealed carry for personal protection

a gun came out, other guns were drawn to protect their bearers from the threat, gunfire ensued. this is precisely the nightmare scenario concealed carry advocates carry for, is it not?

No.

if an upstanding citizen, or 1 of the "gang" members, had a legal gun and had proper gun safety training, would a mom and kid hiding in a park bathroom be in less danger?

Less danger than what?

I suggest you take a self-defense class to learn what it's really about. Not necessarily a firearm class, any kind will do.

[ck4829]

2. As to be expected, they ALWAYS shoot themselves in the end

Just a little bit unsettling that one can find predictability in an event that is supposed to be chaotic.

[rrneck]

3. Going Postal

http://www.amazon.com/Going-Postal-Rebellion-Workplaces-Columbine/dp/1932360824/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1280850649&sr=8-4


An eye-opening look at the phenomenon of school and workplace shootings in America, Going Postal explores the rage-murder phenomenon that has plagued — and baffled — America for the last three decades, and offers some provocative answers to the oft-asked question, "Why?" By juxtaposing the historical place of rage in America with the social climate that has existed since the 1980s — when Reaganomics began to widen the gap between executive and average-worker earnings — the author crafts a convincing argument that these schoolyard and office massacres can be seen as modern-day slave rebellions. He presents many fascinating and unexpected cases in detail. Like slave rebellions, these massacres are doomed, gory, sometimes even inadvertently comic, and grossly misunderstood. Taking up where Bowling for Columbine left off, this book seeks to set these murders in their proper context and thereby reveal their meaning.

[Lost4words]

4. Thanks for that, I'll check out the book!

:hi:

[MicaelS]

18. I am nor the least bit surpised when workplace shootings occurs...

I'm only truly surprised that there are not many, many, more of them. American Businesses treat people like disposable diapers. They fill them up with their shit, then toss them away, only to replace them and repeat the process. They act shocked and surprised when the the human they have treated like an animal turns into an animal and strikes back.

Shootings, he argues, happen in corporate environments rife with alienation, surveillance, mandatory unpaid overtime, and humiliating and degrading layoff rituals, where managers consciously harness fear to increase worker stress and insecurity. Sites of school shootings, meanwhile, are brutal environments where students undergo horrific torment only exacerbated by Zero Tolerance crackdowns.

And I'm a gun owner and supporter of the RKBA.

[Lightning Count]

5. delete

wrong place.

[TheCowsCameHome]

12. Thank heaven we live in a civilized socierty

where people can settle their differences without resorting to violence.:sarcasm:

More senseless gun deaths. Ugh.

[qanda]

15. We live in a very violent society

My cousin was killed a week ago Sunday. He was just riding down the street in Pittsburgh and an 18 year old opened fire on the car with an AK-47. My cousin was killed but thankfully the two children in the backseat were relatively unharmed. All I can think about is how senseless it is to lose a loved one in this manner-- no rhyme or reason. My heart goes out to the families involved.

[activa8tr]

16. My sympathies go out to you and your family. It must be the worst

kind of death in a family. So senseless!

[qanda]

55. Thank you so much

It really is a terrible thing.

[superconnected]

20. Deepest sympathies.

My best friends' sister was widowed like this. Her husband had pulled down the wrong street, was turning around and killed for invading the "turf" of the gang. Thank goodness the toddlers in the car were left alive for the police to retrieve them. I hope they catch the ones who killed your cousin and I hope they go to prison for most of their lives. Unfortunately nothing happened to the gang members the incident I described.

[qanda]

56. Thank you

They found the guy who did it-- he looks like a little kid.

[RamboLiberal]

21. As a fellow Pittsburgher my heart goes out to you

I know of the story of your cousin's murder. And the ahole shooter murdered him in a case of mistaken identity. It is totally senseless. I wish I had the answer to how we get many Americans to realize that a gun is not the answer to every dispute.

[qanda]

57. Thanks

I was in Pittsburgh for three weeks right before this happened. It was crazy how many shootings there were during my stay. I am originally from Homewood and I don't even like driving through there anymore.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

23. My condolences to you and your family.

I saw that on the news the other day and was glad that the children survived. That doesn't take away from the madness of the crime or the loss to your family though.

Pittsburgh and the surrounding towns have had more than their share of murders this year it seems. There have been a few "wild west" shootouts involving people in cars shooting at each other while driving through residential areas. There are going to be many more innocent lives lost I'm afraid.

[qanda]

58. Thank you

We did find a lot of comfort in the tragedy not being even greater. I just posted about how bad Pittsburgh was getting, especially the neighborhood that I'm from, Homewood.

[Coastal Skies]

35. I am very sorry to hear of your loss..

[qanda]

59. Thanks CS

I appreciate your thoughts.

[hack89]

39. Yet violent crime is at historic lows and still declining

interesting puzzle - violent crime down as gun ownership skyrockets. How is that possible?

[proteus_lives]

45. You just asked the question that control freaks run away from.

Because they can't answer it.

[qanda]

60. It doesn't feel like it's gone down when it's your family being affected

How is that possible?

[X_Digger]

61. Crime experience is cumulative..

You don't remember the days without crime, they're forgotten. What sticks in your mind are the crimes you do hear about, added to an internal tally that only goes up.

Small comfort for those that crime touches, but it tends to explain why folks never feel that crime is going down.

Condolences on your loss.

[hack89]

63. I am sorry for your loss, however

that doesn't change the fact that you have never been safer from violent crime. I don't mean to minimize your loss but it is important that emotional appeals don't override real facts and lead to the erosion of civil rights.

[Kweli4Real]

17. Fox"news" is reporting this as ...

possibly a racially motivated shooting. "FOX61 in Hartford is reporting that the shooting may have been racially motivated, and that Thornton reportedly told his girlfriend that he had been discriminated against, and that a supervisor did nothing."

Okay, let me see if I understand their reasoning ... The shooter believed that he was being discriminated against. He complained and in his view nothing was done to remedy the problem. He get a gun and shoot up the place. And, from this Fox"News" concludes that the shooter acted out of racial animus? How? Because the shooter is African-American? Because he had complained of discrimination?

Ohhhh, because he was African-American. I guess had he been white, he would not have shoot up the place after experiencing what I believed to be unfair treatment.

this is another example of fox"news" furthering it's "white folks be afraid of the scary Black guy" agenda. This biased stuff has got to stop.

[Coastal Skies]

36. Fox"news

Well put!

[rbrnmw]

46. Race baiting 24/7 IMO no different than Manson

trying to start a race war and maybe even more dangerous than Charlie because they get their message out to thousands of nuts everyday Charlie was limited to a small group in California

[Steve20]

68. re

The shooter was a racist pyshco.

[Jennicut]

22. Yikes! In Manchester. Been there and to Hartford Hospital quite a few times.

Just sad all the way around. I don't care about the politics of guns or whatever. It just bums me out that this happened in CT.

[Coastal Skies]

26. GUNMAN KILLS 8 AND SELF CT

Source: MSN

MANCHESTER, Conn. — An employee who had been asked to resign went on a shooting rampage Tuesday at a family-owned beer distributing company, killing eight people and wounding others before fatally shooting himself, officials said.

The shooting took place at Hartford Distributors Inc., about 10 miles east of Hartford.

Authorities identified the alleged shooter as Omar Thornton, a 34-year-old warehouse driver.

The driver had worked at the distributor for a couple of years and been called in for a disciplinary hearing, said John Hollis of the Connecticut Teamsters, who was with company officials at the scene of the shooting.

"The union was bringing him in to meet with the company to remedy the problem," Hollis told the Hartford Courant. "He started shooting


Read more: http://www.msn.com

---

Yikes,

[saigon68]

27. I guess they won't fuck with him anymore

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

29. Unless they're necrophiliacs.

:think:

[Coastal Skies]

34. Oh Man that's cold!!

LoL

[sofa king]

52. Some Like It Cold

But it ain't gonna be cold where I'm headed for this.

[NutmegYankee]

53. Thank God for dark humor.

You restored my faith in DU. There have been so many humorless people here as of late.

[damntexdem]

28. I wonder what it would take to convince such gunmen to slightly alter their protocols ...

and shoot themselves first.

Just a thought.

;-)

[slackmaster]

33. Nobody should ever be "asked to resign", and there is a good reason to fire people on a Friday

Less chance of an "incident".

[hack89]

40. Friday is actually the worst time

gives them a weekend to brood and contemplate either murder or suicide. Most large corporations that give any thought to the issue will hold layoffs on Tuesday.

[Kweli4Real]

43. Yeah, that!

[slackmaster]

44. Most of the times I've been laid off have been just before Christmas

:argh:

[hack89]

48. Now that would really suck.

I have been lucky - I was sweating it for a while but we just got a new contract that will keep us going for another year.

[X_Digger]

51. Many HR consultants will tell you for line workers to notify on Thursday...

.. with their last day being the next day.

Any longer and you end up with bitter people sabotaging systems and relationships with customers and suppliers. Any shorter, and there's not enough time for the shock to wear off and resentment to subside somewhat.

For supervisors and the like, Tuesday with last day Friday of the same week.

For "management", they'll often recommend 2 weeks.

The psychology behind it has to do with a process similar to grieving. After the "denial" but before the "anger" seems to be the spot they're aiming for.

[npk]

50. What? The gunman was stealing beer.

It seems to me that "Being asked to resign" is a lot better than "being asked to go to jail." The man is a coward.

[slackmaster]

64. The proper response would be "You are being terminated for theft, effective immediately."

Followed by "Guido from HR will escort you to your desk to retrieve your personal belongings and give you your final paycheck."

[2Design]

49. sure am glad we allow guns so readily n/t

[chrisa]

54. We need to eliminate our gun problem before it eliminates us. (Not for banning, but for training)

At this point, only strict regulation, if not complete and outright bans of assault weapons and handguns would help curb this violence, except for those trained extensively to use them). Only the police and military should really have these hand guns, and people who go through an extensive training course.

If gun control were given a chance, with people who want guns recieving a large training class (with this being a deterant to those who are only getting guns to do bad things), we would see less events such as this.

I'm not for any gun bans - just alot of training for using a gun to weed out those who won't use them safely.

[slackmaster]

62. LOL

At this point, only strict regulation, if not complete and outright bans of assault weapons and handguns...

...I'm not for any gun bans...

[Pavulon]

65. Jesus will open for the grateful dead before this happens. At the garden

this piece of shit has nothing to do with my right to own a weapon. None, any more than the piece of shit that gets drunk and kills a family of 5 has a fucking thing to do with my ability to enjoy an ice cold beer responsibly.

Gun control in the US is done. Move on.

A floating turd of humanity who will murder people like this will give a fuck about all the training and laws in the world. All you are doing with that is pissing on people who vote..

[Indydem]

66. This guy had an axe to grind.

If he didn't have a gun, he would have used an axe, or a knife, or a car.

The gun was the tool. In circumstances where people show irrational behavior, the tool is interchangeable and the result is the same.

[Jennicut]

67. CT is a pretty well controlled state as far as guns go. We don't have too many nutters around here

waving their guns in people's faces. We do have some violence in the inner cities like Hartford, Bridgeport, Waterbury, New Haven. I think this was an isolated incident with a man who was mentally imbalanced.