'Honour killing' suspected in murder of British couple in Pakistan

[alp227]

Source: The Guardian

A British couple have been murdered in Pakistan in a suspected "honour killing" after calling off their daughter's marriage.

A man and his wife from the Alum Rock area of Birmingham, named locally as taxi driver Gul Wazir and wife Bagum, had reportedly visited the country to resolve a dispute over a wedding.

West Midlands police confirmed the deaths. A spokeswoman said: "We have been informed of the murder of two people from Birmingham in Pakistan. The murder inquiry is being carried out by the authorities in Pakistan and we will support their investigation as and when required."

The couple have already been buried and the Foreign Office said it was providing consular assistance to their family.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/08/honour-killing-murder-couple-pakistan

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"Culture" is never an excuse for murder. Last time I checked depriving another of life and civil rights is not part of any charter of human rights.

[UndertheOcean]

1. ""Culture" is never an excuse for murder ": Amen

[happyslug]

8. It is if it means MONEY

This case sounds like a deal gone bad, yes a marriage may have been involved, but the bride was NOT the person killed, her parents were. I suspect it was an arranged marriage, but less for the purposes of marriage then to get someone into the UK (Why else would the couple be in Pakistan AND subject to an "Honor Killing"?). Sounds like their either made a promise they could NOT deliver on (i.e. the actual marriage of their daughter) OR were demanding more from the "Groom's" Family.

Furthermore, outside the West, it is common for cousins to marry cousins (The Catholic Church in the Middle ages outlawed such marriages do to the fact it kept to much money within a family, since the 1800s the West has slowly permitted such marriages but even today NOT the norm). Could this be a family fight (Someone did NOT do what they wanted a cousin to do, and the rest of the family decided someone had to die for that error, an error that may have NOTHING to do with the daughter or marriage). For all we may know this couple may have been killed for someone thought they were British or American Spies, and Pakistan is covering that up by calling it a "Honor Killing".

Yes, the above is speculation, but so is the statement in the Guardian. This may be a Honor killing, it may be a inter family killing, it may just be a robbery that went bad. From what we know all are possible but the facts tend NOT to support what most people in the West would consider a "Honor Killing".

[demosincebirth]

2. They use Culture and Honor to murder every day...mainly women.

[burnsei sensei]

3. The South's excuse for slavery?

Economics and culture.
The excuse for segregation & Jim Crow?
Heritage and Culture.

I'm sure that the Republicans will defend the existence of poverty to the death in this country for the same reason.
Their culture needs a scapegoat.

It's all an indication of backwardness.

[aquart]

4. It's also the excuse for the burqa which is being defended at DU.

[burnsei sensei]

7. I think there are a variety of opinions here at DU.

For one thing, I don't think the Burka should be allowed, and I also think that anyone wearing the Niquab should be required to take it off at the request of law enforcement or to get a picture taken for an ID card, passport or driver's license.
Mystery doesn't turn me on, doesn't make me happy, doesn't make me trust.
I've heard that the Burka inhibits vision so much that women wearing them for some years can become visually impaired or blind.
If it causes blindness over the long term, it must be pretty profane.

[happyslug]

12. You right, Culture was the EXCUSE for Slavery, economics as the REASON

We tend to forget that in 1860 50% of US Exports was COTTON. Sugar, Tobacco, Rice and Indigo (a source for blue dye) were other crops exported but generally farmed by slaves. Sugar was on the decline, Beat Sugar had come in with Napoleon, Indigo would stay a good mainstay for another 20 years till artificial dyes came into general use, Rice was more a local food then an export, but all were SOUTHERN export crops. Britain paid top dollar for all of them (With the possible exception of rice). Other southern products were less slave intense (i.e. pine trees, used as mast on sailing ships) but turpentine (Another product of pine trees) was another export, through more southern whites was involved in its production then slaves.

Of US exports in 1860, Cotton was King. It was highly profitable, made more so with slave labor (Till the Cotton harvester was adopted in the 1950s, hand picking of cotton was the most profitable way to harvest the crop). Thus slaves were profit points in the South, and the South adopted a Culture that supported Slavery for such a culture was in the South's best economic interests. Once Slavery was abolished AND Reconstruction ended, Share cropping became the norm (even for whites) for the same reason, you needed HANDS to pick the cotton crop (as I stated above that started to end in the 1920s with the invention of the first Cotton mechanical harvesters, by the 1950s most Cotton was harvested by machine and thus Share Cropping ended).

My point is ECONOMIC self interest often is the reason for a Culture, that is true of the South as while as the Middle east (And in the rest of the world). Cultures adapt to economic self interests. The Opposite is NOT true,, Economic Self Interest NEVER changes do to culture.

[rasputin1952]

5. How incredibly repulsive...

:grr:

[cosmicone]

6. Horrific but not an isolated incident by any means.

This one got publicity because the victims were British. There are probably hundreds of other cases that are swept under the rug in the name of culture.

[Turborama]

9. Correct: More than 1000 honour killings in India every year: Experts

PTI, Jul 4, 2010, 02.20pm IST

LONDON: More than 1,000 young people in India have been done to death every year owing to 'Honour Killings' linked to forced marriages and the country needs to introduce stringent legislation to deal firmly with the heinous crime, two legal experts have claimed.

Participating in International Child Abduction, Relocation and Forced Marriages Conference organised by the London Metropolitan University here, Chandigarh-based legal experts Anil Malhotra and his brother Ranjit Malhotra have said that in traditional societies, honour killings are basically 'justified' as a sanction for 'dishonourable' behaviour.

In a joint paper, they said: "Forced marriages and honour killings are often intertwined. Marriage can be forced to save honour, and women can be murdered for rejecting a forced marriage and marrying a partner of their own choice who is not acceptable for the family of the girl.

They said in India, honour killings happen with regularity in Punjab, Haryana and western Uttar Pradesh.

"They happen not only within the Muslim community but also among Sikhs and Hindus."

Full article: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/More-than-1000-honour-killings-in-India-every-year-Experts/articleshow/6127338.cms#ixzz0w7l4YNVL

[cosmicone]

11. How predictable ... I baited you and you didn't disappoint me..

Your bias is clearly evident since the OP is not about India, yet you chose to go there.

It is wonderful when a plan works so well.

[Turborama]

13. The OP is about "honor killings"

They happen all over the world. No bias in my post whatsoever, I was just proving your point. If you read the rest of the article you'll see that it says: "The total figure for India would be about the same as estimated for Pakistan, which researchers suggest has the highest per capita incidence of honour killings in the world."


Your post was intended to "bait" me? :rofl: Read the trap you just fell into above. Thanks for playing, though.

[cosmicone]

14. The very fact that you responded with a number about India

without it even being an issue is enough for my satisfaction.

I didn't see you posting statistics on honor killings in Turkey, Iraq, Egypt, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia or Indonesia. ONLY India.

Laugh as much as you want, any objective (i.e. not you) observer will see it for what it is.

Peace

[Turborama]

15. I was citing a recent study with shocking statistics from both India and Pakistan

I couldn't find any other recent studies which include the countries you mention.

You make numerous posts about how superior India is to Pakistan so it's hardly surprising that you'd be upset when it's pointed out to you that India and Pakistan have the highest honor killing statistics in the world.

[cosmicone]

17. I am not upset ... just amused.

I don't like honor killings in India either and India needs to abolish Sharia law, force the Indian Law on all religions and stop this nonsense of honor killings.

It is horrific no matter where it takes place. Unfortunately, secular India bends over backwards to allow primitive practices in minority communities continue.

[Turborama]

18. India condones Sharia law?

I honestly didn't know that. I agree, I think it should be abolished wherever it's practised.

Not that it has anything to do with the honor killings though, seeing it is a cultural practice which happens "not only within the Muslim community but also among Sikhs and Hindus."

[cosmicone]

19. Yes, India allows Sharia.

and yes, it also happens in Sikh and Hindu communities but the percentages are lower.

[OhioChick]

16. Wow....

"The total figure for India would be about the same as estimated for Pakistan, which researchers suggest has the highest per capita incidence of honour killings in the world."


I find that to be deeply disturbing. (Regarding both countries)

[slackmaster]

10. "Culture Of Peace" again?

:argh: