Tamil asylum-seekers spark Canadian vitriol, anger

[CHIMO]

Source: thestar.com

“Send them back.”

“These boat people are abusing the system, taking us for a ride.”

“So they’ve come from a very bad situation. So what? So do a lot of other people … why should we have to take everyone in?”

Since the MV Sun Sea — the boat carrying 490 Tamil refugees — docked near Victoria on Friday, news websites and call-in radio shows have been inundated with vitriolic comments, media coverage has been sensational and there’s even been a protest against letting the boat into Canadian waters.


Read more: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/848212--tamil-asylum-seekers-spark-canadian-vitriol-anger?bn=1

[PDJane]

1. Whatever the US has is, apparently, contagious.

This is just xenophobia, and the more we have of it, the harder it is for people to settle in and become productive members of a society. We have taken in many of them; we have a population of 3,000 Tamils in Canada. However, that doesn't mean that a few more women and children will cause a huge problem, and these people are at risk if we send them home.

[CHIMO]

2. You Are Off By Two

Orders of magnitude.

Toronto’s Tamil-Canadian community gears up to host new refugees
Toronto is home to nearly 200,000 Tamils, believed to be the largest diaspora. It’s expected that most refugees from Sun Sea will eventually head here because they’ll find an existing network of support here.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/848045--toronto-s-tamil-canadian-community-gears-up-to-host-new-refugees

[PDJane]

9. That's actually a typo......sorry, yes, 300,000 tamils here.

Largest number outside of Sri Lanka. And yes, they do have a number of people here and in Vancouver to assist them.

However, their country has been at war for 30 years, more or less, until a heavy-handed military attempt wiped out too many people to ignore.

I would point out that without immigration, Canada's population would be dropping, however. We aren't reproducing at replacement rate.

[MellowDem]

3. So you blame the US? Wow.

I guess Canadians really do have an inferiority complex. :eyes:

I know, actually having immigration laws and enforcing them is quite a shock to some people in the US, since we are probably the most lax nation on Earth when it comes to immigration. Then again, if your country let in hundreds of thousands of illegals every year to be exploited by business and drop the wages of working class Americans, you might understand the importance of enforcing immigration laws to the well being of a progressive nation.

[CHIMO]

4. Yep

You got that right.

NAFTA.

Military.

Oil.

You name it you did it.

[depakid]

5. Scapegoating like this is much more of an American past time

xenophobia of course, is not.

Your job and wage situation is largely your own doing, accomplished through years of policies designed to discourage unions, move manufacturing abroad and increase wealth disparities.

[MellowDem]

10. Scapegoating is not an "American" past time, it's a human past time.

So on the one hand you say my job is my own doing, ala Republican logic, then on the other say that it is accomplished through years of conservative policies, which has nothing to do with me as an individual. You do realize that discouraging unions, moving manufacturing abroad, increasing wealth disparities AND importing cheap, illegal labor are all part of the same conservative, pro-business policy?

[MicaelS]

42. And who elected the people that did all these things?

It was Americans, as far back as the Reagan Democrats. The fact is our current situation is a self-inflicted wound.

[Romulox]

26. Unintentional irony time?

"Those Americans are ALWAYS pointing fingers!"

:hi:

:rofl:

[depakid]

34. No irony at all- Americans trashed their own manufacturing base

and turned parts of the rust belt into what look like third world nations through their own policy choices and many of those who went along (and even those who did not) now try to scapegoat immigrants "for taking their jobs."

Xenophobia is one thing- you see that in many nations- scapegoating for a people's OWN policy failures, that's a lot more common among Americans these days.

[Romulox]

39. Your posts to this thread are incoherent and embarrassing. nt

[boppers]

6. "since we are probably the most lax nation on Earth when it comes to immigration"

Right. Do we (the US) also have the highest taxes and the best healthcare in the world? :eyes:

Do you know what kind of Visa/Passport/Travel documents you need to go from France to England? I suggest you look into that, and then compare the difficulty of even *entering* the US, let alone immigrating.

[MellowDem]

12. Well, you can try to look up the statistics, but I think it is true....

comparing it to travel inside of Europe makes no sense. Legal immigration to Europe and Canada is incredibly tough. It's also tough to the US. But do any of those nations allow the level of illegal immigration the US does and turn a blind eye to it? Legal immigration is not the problem. It is the lax attitude towards illegal immigration that allows for exploitation and a whole underclass of cheap labor that does indeed effect wages and labor. And in that, the US is the laxest, and on purpose in many cases. Other developed nations enforce their immigration laws and labor laws much more strictly than we do.

[boppers]

21. Europe has many nations.

Hence, the comparison.

I also note the additional qualification of "developed nations", which makes sense because there are so many nations that basically have no functional "immigration system"... if you're there, you're a citizen, period. Kind of like how the US was (and in many ways, still is).

[Romulox]

27. EU citizens moving between EU states is the equivalent of US citizens moving between US states

The EU doesn't have open borders with any country outside the European Union. It's lame to pretend otherwise. :hi:

[emilyg]

7. +1

[applegrove]

11. I think Canada has a population of 300,000 in Canada the largest population of Tamils outside

of Sri Lanka or India. I agree this hatred is a virus of the mind some in Canada have caught from the USA. For sure cue jumping is unfair but we have gotten a lot of 'risk takers' because of refugees. In fact our country was built on them.

[PDJane]

13. See upthread. I admitted to a typo, and it's too late to change

it, so shoot me.

And yes, we need immigrants in reasonable numbers, and should be giving assylum. We always have, and we're better for it.

[proteus_lives]

15. "I agree this hatred is a virus of the mind some in Canada have caught from the USA."

Sorry to disappoint but dislike and scapegoating of recent immigrants existed before the United States did.

[applegrove]

18. Oh for sure. But they did show a clip on the news of PM Mulrooney saying refugees from a boat

were welcome here 22 years ago. And now the conservatives are all about the rules and tried to turn the boat around. Maybe I just hear more views that differ than mine on the news and such because of the internet. Canada is much less patient than it was on the refugee issue. America has been a safe haven for hatred against the "other" for a long while ..... while Canada dealt with its minority french by invoking bilingualism programs across the country or tried to. Of course we turned Jewish boats around during the lead up to WWII. And we have treated our aboriginal people abysmally. We had racist immigration laws until the mid 1970s. But I think it is fair to point out that we are affected by what goes on in the USA. Cause we are. The whole elephant/mouse sleeping together thing.

[Romulox]

28. So...Americans taught you to scapegoat and point fingers at others, did they?

Do you not see the irony in a statement like that? :hi: :rofl:

[PDJane]

30. Some...........

But I'll also point out that we did take huge numbers of them, and we continue to do so. We are still doing the right thing.

However, the 'war on terror' thing and the 'they came across the border from Canaeda' stuff and the friendship between the right......Mulroney and Harper and the various Bush presidents....has debased the discussion here as much as there.

[applegrove]

37. It is human nature to be afraid of the "other" but we fight against that in Western

society. Now certain conservatives no longer feel the need to be even politically correct and they spread that message
around the world.

[CHIMO]

32. Canada Is

Canada. Canada did not deal anything to its minority "French". Canada lived up to its founding principles.

You should read some "Canadien" history. Mon Pays.

[Posteritatis]

41. Frederick Charles Blair was entirely homegrown

That virus has been among us for awhile.

[cstanleytech]

25. No, this reaction towards refugees was happening long before

the US was even founded and it will happen probably long after its gone.

[Romulox]

29. As your response shows, Canadians really are a nation of finger-pointers and scapegoaters.

:hi:

[Posteritatis]

40. Canada's traditionally been *far* "better" at the xenophobia thing than the US, and for a long time.

This isn't an Evil USness Infecting Us thing; Canadians have held extraordinarily bigoted attitudes towards non-WASP immigrants for a long time.

[fujiyama]

45. I agree that blaming their xenophobic attitudes on the US is silly and misplaced

but I'm not sure I'd say Canada is more bigoted against non-white immigrants than the US. You have to recall the US's Chinese exclusion policy was law until the 60s, when it was repealed under Kennedy. I think Canada was accepting Asian immigrants long before. Asian immigrants have had a major impact on Canada, especially in BC, and to a lesser extent Ontario. Also, this goes without saying, but Canada also doesn't have our nasty little history of slavery and Jim Crow. And I won't even get into the "Know-Nothings" and immigration policies that did its best to restrict the "great unwashed" from reaching this country's shores.

Next to New York, I'd say Toronto is one of the most diverse cities I've visited.

This recent flair up has nothing to do with the US, but rather a depressed global economy where more people are competing for fewer jobs and local and national governments are stretched thin and are facing difficulties providing services people are used to (and of course in Canada that includes health care). This doesn't excuse racist behavior on the part of anyone, but honestly I've seen just as nasty things said on this very website. A poor economy is a perfect climate to find scapegoats.

[Posteritatis]

47. I'm talking about immigrants in general

We've been pretty slow on the uptake about them for the most part - case in point, the fact that we didn't allow Jewish immigration until the mid-1950s thanks to that fuckhead Frederick Blair. In any case, we've improved since the sixties, but I still think that difference is one of law more than attitude. Toronto and maybe Vancouver notwithstanding, this country's far less comfortable with immigration than it likes to think it is, and I've seen the attitudes well before the implosion a couple of years ago.

A poor economy is a good climate to find scapegoats, but there's always the risk of the poor economy being one itself if we need a convenient excuse to justify something uncomfortable.

[burnsei sensei]

8. If the Tamils are in a state of diaspora,

then the Sinhalese have won.
This points to tragic diplomatic failure, and even international neglect in Sri Lanka.
I wish things could have been otherwise.

[Amonester]

14. No surprise there: they must be harper's voters.

And each fkg time, they manage to make him (minority) PM.

Go figure.

[snagglepuss]

16. I heard a Tamil spokemen say passengers paid $45,000 each.If that is true

I am opposed to their being given status because there are thousands of people languishing in UN refugee camps world-wide who don't have those sorts of funds at their disposal. They should have waited in refugee camps like other refugees and waited to be processed.

[CHIMO]

17. The Rule

Is if they land in the country and claim refuge status then they are accepted if their claim is valid. An out is, if they land in Canada from a "free country", such as the US, then they have to return to the free country and make their claim there. All part of the UN agreement.

[snagglepuss]

19. True but I think the queue jumping vexes people especially when they are

financially well off. The situation for Tamilsin Sri Lanka though far from perfect is nothing to compare to the situation of other refugees who have nothing and are living in camps. Going forward I hope arrangements are made with Thailand to intercept undocumented passenger ships and settle Tamils in UN camps where they can wait with other refugees to have their claims processed.

[CHIMO]

20. Queue Jumping

Is not nice. In health as in all things.

I don't know how the people managed to get on board the boat. But they did. As to comparisons with other people, well one can always compare.

If they had $45,000 I would have thought that they would have come by plane.

http://www.thestar.com/article/847832--sri-lanka-s-telling-exodus

[snagglepuss]

22. It seems that airlines are required to check documents and ID so for people

who are intending to claim refugee status it is not the preferred way. It seems that many if not all people arriving via smugglers ditch ID so their names can't be searched on terror or criminals lists. So if your well off but not necessarily a terrorist arriving by boat is better than the hassle of regular immigration especially if its probable that you won't be accepted.

[CHIMO]

33. Well

Most of the people claiming refugee status landing in Canada do so on airlines. So if that road is closed off, then one would expect the people to take the next route available.

[snagglepuss]

36. I found a posting on a blog that I think is accurately outlines the issues.

Admittedly this was on a RW blog but having myself read extensively about the Sri Lankan/Tamil history just prior to their Civil War ending, I think the poster does a good job poking holes in what I believe is Tamil PR. FYI before the fighting reached its pitch and stirred up the Tamil community in TO, my sympathies were with the Tamils however after having looked into Sri Lankan history I am much less sympathetic toward them. Much.

snip


As to the question whether Sri Lankan Tamils are real refugees we have to take into account that Sri Lankan Tamils in Canada routinely return to Sri Lanka in significant numbers, a fact the Sri Lankan consulate will point out evidenced by applications for return visas. If these people are truly in fear for their lives then why do they go back to Sri Lanka so often?

Further, Sri Lanka has consistently ranked high in nations producing family class immigrants to Canada while also ranking high as a refugee producing nation. It appears the refugee claim wasn’t just for the individual but to benefit the entire family as a vehicle to immigrate to Canada via the refugee stream.

If you disagree with the above the next point we have to consider is why there are more Sri Lankan Tamils in Canada then there are in India particularly the southern Indian state of Tamil Nadu. Tamil Nadu is culturally and linguistically Tamil and is so close to Sri Lanka you could practically swim to it. Naturally this should have been the preferred destination for Sri Lankan Tamil refugees fleeing war and acts of persecution since it is similar to their homeland and close to family still in Sri Lanka. The reality is that wasn’t the case at all. Sri Lankan Tamils instead chose to fly half way around the world to a country with no historical, linguistic, or cultural ties to Sri Lanka.

Canada was targeted by Sri Lankan Tamils, and others, for immigration purposes by posing as refugees and I say bogus ones at that. Regardless of the news reports coming out of Sri Lanka, Tamils are not as persecuted as they make themselves out be. With Canadians’ ignorance on their side Tamils in Canada will not tell you that the capital city of Colombo is 1/3 Tamil (in other words the option of internal flight is open to them); that Tamil political parities (similar to our Bloc Quebecois) operate in Sri Lanka and have sent members to office; that some Tamils had Buddhist and Muslim friends in Colombo but then became “persecuted” when it came to time to file a refuguee claim in an advanced industrialized nation like Canada, the U.K., or Australia.

They won’t tell you about the history of the LTTE which is an organization formed and run by violent tyrannical gangsters who have sent representatives to Toronto’s streets disguised as “refugees”. And if Martin Collacott, Canada’s former High Commissioner to Sri Lanka, is to be believed then were the LTTE successful in establishing an independent homeland it would be totalitarian in character with routine suppression of freedoms and human rights.

I am not denying that the Tamils have been persecuted in Sri Lanka but progress has been made. However such talk doesn’t bold well for a refugee claim so Canadians are to be fed incessant talk of “genocide” and persecution. The issue is more complex then what the Tamil community is making it out to be.

And Dr. Dawg may be delighted to know that it isn’t just the Sri Lankan government that is killing innocent Tamils. Civilians trapped in the war zone were fired upon by LTTE gunmen as they tried to flee the territory for safety, this we are told by eye witness accounts from those who survived it.

With that said I have to say the Tamil community have lost a lot of credibility with me. I don’t deny their grievances but I do feel their claims of persecution and “genocide” are over exaggerated and self serving.

[CHIMO]

44. You Seem

To be dragging more things into the conversation every time you post.

Are they refugees? Are they terrorists?

If the airlines don't let them in then how do they flee?

What you seem to be saying that they are not fleeing?

Are they fleeing? Are they the rich that are escaping? Is Canada the base for 9/11 as clinton made us out to be? Seems that unless we become a protectorate of the US, and accept US rule, nothing will be acceptable.

[Heywood J]

23. I'm not going to excuse the racist crap

but I can see how people are pissed. Blockading the Toronto downtown core (keeping people from getting to work or home) and waving the flag of a banned terrorist organization does tend to draw some ire. It may be legal to wave that flag once you're in the country, but that doesn't mean you'll get the support of public opinion, nor will attempting to queue jump. There are channels for this, like embassies and consulates.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/03/18/tamil-flag.html
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090510/Tamil_protest_090510/20090510?hub=Toronto
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/04/29/tamil-protest.html

These concerns aside, the racist crap is not welcome and shows the moral character of the callers.


Edited because I don't phrase things well at 5AM.

[Arrowhead2k1]

35. That happened on a Sunday night. No one was hurt, very few inconvenienced.

Their people at home were reported to have been being slaughtered. They successfully drew people's attention to that issue since nothing else was working. For the few people who were so offended by that protest, than there's no use for them anyway.

[Heywood J]

38. They targeted a civilian population that was uninvolved with events

in their homeland. They could have targeted the Sri Lankan embassy with protests, or picketed the Department of Foreign Affairs, instead of closing down several of the busiest streets in the core for days. I'm offended by the indiscriminate nature of their behavior, but I guess you have no use for me either then.

[Arrowhead2k1]

43. Oh the poor poor Torontonians, how could those thoughtless creatures traumatize the population like

that? I mean, people such as ourselves just want to live inside of our bubble in peace. Not a care in the world for anyone outside of this bubble. But interfere with my right to drive my SUV down a highway on a Sunday night?!?! Gosh, I'm so offended! Can't ever forgive that shit! Fuck those people and their dead families! Yeah!

:sarcasm:

[JNelson6563]

24. Oh Canada!

What a surprise! Canada tends to be more easy going and humane. Straighten up Canada or we'll send the Salvation Army up there to kick your ass. lol

I kid.

Really though, I am surprised at this.

Julie

[muntrv]

31. Oh my lord! America is exporting tea baggers to Canada!

[Vehl]

46. This is ironic, cos the tamils of canada are the largest per capita tax payers of the nation!

I doubt they would be a burden on the system!

if i rem correctly, a few years ago the canadian PM lauded the Canadian Tamils for being the largest per capita tax payers in the nation. Most of these protests are due to lack of knowledge...methinks