Judge: State ban on protests at military funerals unconstitutional

[Newsjock]

Source: CNN

Missouri's tight restrictions on protests and picketing outside military funerals were tossed out by a federal judge Monday, over free speech concerns.

A small Kansas church had brought suit over its claimed right to loudly march outside the burials and memorial services of those killed in overseas conflicts. The state legislature had passed a law to keep members of the Topeka-based Westboro Baptist Church from demonstrating within 300 feet of such private services.

Church members, led by pastor Fred Phelps, believe God is punishing the United States for "the sin of homosexuality" through events including soldiers' deaths. Members have traveled the country, shouting at grieving family members at funerals and displaying such signs as "Thank God for Dead Soldiers," "God Blew Up the Troops" and "AIDS Cures Fags."

... Judge Fernando Gaitan in a 19-page order, dismissed the state legislation.

The laws, said the Kansas City-based judge, "could have the effect of criminalizing speech the mourners want to hear, including speech from counter-protesters to plaintiffs' (the Westboro Church's) message. As the law burdens substantially more speech than is necessary to further the government's interest, (the law) violates the free speech clause of the First Amendment."

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/16/missouri.funeral.protests.ruling/index.html?hpt=T2

[X_Digger]

1. I agree with the judge.

I loathe the phelps moron road show, but the cost of protecting speech we agree with is that we have to tolerate speech we despise.

[hlthe2b]

2. Yes, I agree... as disgusting as they are...

although it does seem like they can separate them at some distance.

[X_Digger]

4. 'Time, place, and manner' restrictions may be applicable..

.. if content neutral. That'd be the hard one to prove, since this law came about as a direct response to phelps.

[The Northerner]

6. I couldn't agree more

Free speech is free speech regardless of its unpopularity and so long as it's not promoting defamation or harm.

[mbperrin]

9. You don't find these signs threatening or defaming? These are Phelps"

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTigZIGzwg1bPGyWQzyhezJapPyqqxaKX3BNKZMG2MzCHFIWSw&t=1&usg=__L0Up4UVzShjGdQEjYmB8iWR7lPE=

[jberryhill]

15. What individual do those signs threaten or defame?

And you might review some of the "Is Dick Cheney Dead Yet?" threads here, while considering your answer.

[mbperrin]

18. The individual whose funeral they are picketing is who. They know nothing

about them other than that they died overseas in the service.

I don't start the Dick Cheney threads. That's my point. You're free to do so, obviously, since glee over someone's death is okay with you.

[jberryhill]

20. Ummm... you can't threaten a dead person

Nor do the signs defame such person.

[mbperrin]

19. Of course, the Phelps are white Christians, so they get a pass anyway.

Right?

[jberryhill]

21. A "pass" to do what?

I have no idea what point you are trying to make there.

They are assholes, and they are free to demonstrate that fact.

[mbperrin]

22. See, there's the pass. Why can't the folks wanting to build this mosque

do the same?

If you're being deliberately obtuse, there's no point in continuing this conversation. If you're not, there's really no reason.

So I will bid you goodbye. Have a nice day.

[jberryhill]

26. I don't get your point

The people who want to build a mosque are free to build the mosque. I think "opposition" to someone practicing their religion on their own property, wherever it is, is stupid.

You said something about "threats" and "defamation". Those two words have specific legal meanings, which are not met by the Phelps clan's activities.

The WBC folks get permits for their protests, and have made a career out of suing people for interfering with the exercise of their First Amendment rights. I don't agree with them or like them, but so what?

[Taverner]

8. Aye - and we should excersize OUR freedom of speech and picket THEM

[hlthe2b]

10. better to laugh and mock them...

as in recent "counter-protests".... ;)

[Taverner]

12. Well yeah, and those show which is the smarter of the two...

[X_Digger]

13. Absolutely! The remedy for bad speech is good speech!

I loved what they did to them at comicon. Classic!

[customerserviceguy]

14. Clearly, these nutballs

have not protested at the funeral of one of your loved ones. Or a Federal judge's...

Personally, I'm hoping that the military buddies of one of the deceased at a Fred Phelps funeral protest have a little fun on their own, and nobody sees it.

[Bluzmann57]

3. Fair enough

But maybe the courts could also make it legal to pound the (westboro) protestors into mulch.

[tomm2thumbs]

5. disturbing the peace with free speech

Phelps Order of Disbarment

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=16353368333889772229

'79 from which:

'He has disregarded that oath, and violated the Code of Professional Responsibility and K.S.A. 60-211. The practice of law is a privilege rather than a right and by his conduct, respondent has forfeited his privilege. We find he should be disciplined by disbarment and assessed the costs of this action.'

[onehandle]

7. Fine. Can people pee on them when they show up?

Fair is fair.

[mbperrin]

11. They've not been to Texas with their show.

Dunno why. Texans are famous for our hospitality.

[Tesha]

25. No. You cannot assault someone because you dislike their speech. (NT)

[24601]

27. Yes, you can. You just have to be willing to face consequences.

There likely are communities where "no jury would convict" someone assaulting the Phelps assholes. Or perhaps we need strong laws to protect them - something like: "Anyone found guilty of killing a funeral protester shall be jailed two days and fined $28.34 plus court costs." Kill two of them and get a volume discount on the fine. Kill 10, getting your card punched each time, and get a free Starbucks.

Note - This is just hypothetical musing - don't get riled and act on any of this.

Perhaps Phelps would appreciate protesters aimed at him with graphic pictures and, borrowing a line from the Exorcist, captioned, "Fred - your mother sucks cocks in hell", or "The existence of Phelps is proof that God hates us all."

[SILVER__FOX52]

16. Hurray for this judge. These despicable protesters are

horrible people. But, their right to free speech is important. Not for them but for us. My only comment is that the grieving persons should take great pride that their Sons or Daughters represent the very best of who we are and they gave that last full measure of devotion that these dirt bags can not detract from. They died for a Country that must allow idiots the same free speech that martyrs have.

[Pab Sungenis]

17. Good.

Then the day that Fred Phelps departs for Hell we can all gather outside his "church" and protest his funeral, too!

I'm planning to tailgate there.

[Posteritatis]

23. Don't wanna agree with the judge, but he's right nonetheless. (nt)

[Uncle Joe]

24. Why is this elimination of distance requirement not applicable to protests at all political events

and not just funerals?

Thanks for the thread, Newsjock.